- 3,546
- Theresa, Wisconsin
PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!
- Thread starter Gareth davies
- 6,543 comments
- 446,835 views
- 2,205
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
People criticise the GTS penalty system, but is this sort of thing in iRacing really any better? An effective 10 minute penalty because someone spun out in front of him:
- 314
- Antarctica
Thanks for linking the iRacing video. Really enjoyed him show the pileup from all angles 
Re the 10m wait, clearly that's annoying but that it is more realistic and some people prefer that, even if it is a pain in the arse. At least you don't have to pack up your broken race car on the tow truck on a Sunday afternoon in iracing.
Re the 10m wait, clearly that's annoying but that it is more realistic and some people prefer that, even if it is a pain in the arse. At least you don't have to pack up your broken race car on the tow truck on a Sunday afternoon in iracing.
- 3,546
- Theresa, Wisconsin
The difference is that there probably isn't as much "gaming" the penalty system because both cars should have damage so no advantage to either. The way PD currently has the lame penalty system bad driving can not an advantage.
- 160
- Scotland
- Imac_heb
Several months since I last checked this thread after coming to the conclusion that sport mode caused more irritation than enjoyment.
Sad to see that after that time the saga continues.
Doesn’t sound like I’ll be returning to it anytime soon.
Meanwhile the Christmas tree can sit where my gaming rig should. The mulled wine would have slowed me down anyway.
Sad to see that after that time the saga continues.
Doesn’t sound like I’ll be returning to it anytime soon.
Meanwhile the Christmas tree can sit where my gaming rig should. The mulled wine would have slowed me down anyway.
- 408
- Vancouver
- NosOsH
Anyone noticed a difference in penalties?
I'm guessing now, in a 3 way crash, the original instigator won't pass his or her penalty on to the middle driver or even the final victim, like what used to happen?
If so....Amen, that's got to be one of the bigger slaps in the face you could get in this game. Especially watching the original aggressor get away Scott free.
But that won't fix the system by any means...
Here's hoping for more...
I'm guessing now, in a 3 way crash, the original instigator won't pass his or her penalty on to the middle driver or even the final victim, like what used to happen?
If so....Amen, that's got to be one of the bigger slaps in the face you could get in this game. Especially watching the original aggressor get away Scott free.
But that won't fix the system by any means...
Here's hoping for more...
- 1,521
- Seixal
- zefthebestofcour
- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
Hey, look at that, PD did NOTHING USEFUL
Here, I will help with the logic since apparently their coders can't write code. Dear PD, take this pseudo code and figure it out. It seems simple enough to me.
IF collision = TRUE (so, did a collision happen?)
THEN check car orientation (check which way the car is pointing relative to the racing line)
If orientation is > 20 degrees
Car=disorientated
IF car = disoriented
the car = penalty
Ya, I know I am simplifying it, but there is no reason why they can't check the car's orientation relative to the racing line to determine if contact is legit or not. I try to avoid the accident and I get a penalty
OR how about like I said the other day? Yellow flag areas get a grace period or reduced penalties? I'm really sick of this garbage that SHOULD be easy enough to check. I had already been punted off in T1 so I was making my way back through the traffic and then this baloney happens.
Before I get told some of this stuff is impossible, let's run down what we are CERTAIN that the game knows.
The game knows the car's direction relative to the direction of the race. How? If you go the wrong direction, the game tells you. Does the game know if you are in the middle of a crash? Yes, it can ghost cars and it throws the yellow flag. I know that it gives people a chance to regain their car, but give those coming by the chance to avoid.
Here's another fact. A good coder is more efficient than a bad coder. I am positive that PD has placed their worst coders on this task.
Here, I will help with the logic since apparently their coders can't write code. Dear PD, take this pseudo code and figure it out. It seems simple enough to me.
IF collision = TRUE (so, did a collision happen?)
THEN check car orientation (check which way the car is pointing relative to the racing line)
If orientation is > 20 degrees
Car=disorientated
IF car = disoriented
the car = penalty
Ya, I know I am simplifying it, but there is no reason why they can't check the car's orientation relative to the racing line to determine if contact is legit or not. I try to avoid the accident and I get a penalty
OR how about like I said the other day? Yellow flag areas get a grace period or reduced penalties? I'm really sick of this garbage that SHOULD be easy enough to check. I had already been punted off in T1 so I was making my way back through the traffic and then this baloney happens.
Before I get told some of this stuff is impossible, let's run down what we are CERTAIN that the game knows.
The game knows the car's direction relative to the direction of the race. How? If you go the wrong direction, the game tells you. Does the game know if you are in the middle of a crash? Yes, it can ghost cars and it throws the yellow flag. I know that it gives people a chance to regain their car, but give those coming by the chance to avoid.
Here's another fact. A good coder is more efficient than a bad coder. I am positive that PD has placed their worst coders on this task.
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- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
I know right? I am POSITIVE that they leave the car solid a little longer so that people don't try to take advantage of the ghosting, but their determination is still WAY off. It's like they wait for the car to be more than 90 degrees to the racing line before it becomes a ghost when 45-50 degrees should do just fine. Heck, even 60 degrees.
No, instead they waste their time putting stupid safety lights on three cars. Seriously, what are they thinking? Put a decent coder in charge of the penalty system.
They should be beta testing a new penalty system now, in GT SPORT.
The entire penalty team should be fired.
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The racing line bit won't work, that gives players a licence to turn in on anyone trying to overtake, or run people off the road if they just stay on the racing line while they do it. There needs to be an acceptable range of speeds in corners, and the car that is further away from this should get the penalty if there's a collision. Either that or a "correct" braking point for each corner, and the car that brakes furthest from it gets the penalty in the event of a collision over a certain impact force.
Perhaps as more of a carrot instead of a stick, there should be bonuses for both drivers for every overtake that's completed without contact or either car going off track.
- 3,816
- London, Ontario
- voodoovaj
A competent leader would have stopped when the penalty system was super strict and penalized all contact. Then, from that point, refined the system.
Nope, they make these wholesale changes and completely throw away a good implementation. You are correct, a dive bomb is totally fine. My race was RUINED by some tool who decided to warm his tires into T1 (Autopolis). He lost control, cut across the grass, and slammed me into oblivion.
4 seconds pealty, which is the same as the video I posted just yesterday where I barely graze the front of a car I am trying to avoid.
How is this NOT determined to be the same thing? The game knows it's not the same. The contact force was not the same. I didn't cut across grass.
How is my contact equal to his? I could accept a crummy penalty of 0.5 (or less) for my contact, but that other guy this morning should have EASILY scored 10 seconds for contact, plus a penalty for his time off track, since it was his own doing. 15 seconds of penalty and a corresponding hit to his SR.
What is the SR penalty logic anyway? Does the game roll dice and give SR penalties accordingly? Make it simple. 2 SR points for every 1 second of penalty, assuming we go back to proper/competent system.
This is clown shoes.
You're over simplifying the validity of the line. It's a spline. The line has an angle at any given point, you compare the car's angle to the angle of the line. If someone "turns in" their relative angle to the line should be greater than the person on the inside.
I can think of a billion ways to tackle this using the racing line as a useful tool to help with determining blame
Acceptable speeds and such is where everything goes pear shaped. All you need is angles and force and 99% of blame can be accurately accounted for.
- 2,356
- UK
- TPC_Watto
The problem with the 'racing line' approach is that it gives free reign on whoever happens to be on whatever is designated 'the racing line'. Some corners have multiple valid lines. If someone is on 'the racing line', but I'm on the inside of them I have to take a more acute angle to the corner. The car on the 'racing line' can then follow their line in essence turning in on me. My angle to the racing line is perceived to be wrong and I get a penalty.
That isn't how the rules work in real life racing, and therein is what I believe the real challenge to a valid penalty system is. If you apply an algorithm to any given situation, it instantly becomes exploitable. Real life racing doesn't look in this much detail when applying the rules.
The best we can ever hope for is a system that works most of the time. We have some way to go and I'm happy to see that PD are still working on it. They were the first to bring any kind of penalty system to online racing on consoles and while it absolutely can be frustrating, I do think we're heading in the right direction.
That isn't how the rules work in real life racing, and therein is what I believe the real challenge to a valid penalty system is. If you apply an algorithm to any given situation, it instantly becomes exploitable. Real life racing doesn't look in this much detail when applying the rules.
The best we can ever hope for is a system that works most of the time. We have some way to go and I'm happy to see that PD are still working on it. They were the first to bring any kind of penalty system to online racing on consoles and while it absolutely can be frustrating, I do think we're heading in the right direction.
- 115
- United Kingdom
The dimwit drivers need to wear shock collars, connected to the PS4
- 2,356
- UK
- TPC_Watto
- 1,336
- New York
Is this video from the 1.53 update?
Yesterday I got a similar penalty (3s) on that same corner in almost the same scenario. Car ahead loses control on entry and goes wide, I move to the inside to avoid and pass, car comes back into the racing line and side swipes me then goes off track. Penalty for me.
I think that corner in particular is really bad for figuring out who's to blame. Have since just avoided passing there.
- 745
- Antarctica
Where is OP? Penalty system is still **** and will forever be ****.
- 2,205
- United Kingdom
- breeminator
- breeminator
- 332
- Denmark
The player who hit @Voodoovaj did leave the track, though. I think they just changed the wording to be more general - "Colliding with Another Car" will be true in most situations, whereas "Forcing another car off the track" won't.
VolkswagenX
(Banned)
- 1,532
- Netherlands
You mean bonuses in DR for clean driving right? I've always been in favour of this and really don't understand why its not in the game. The current SR system rewards because people care more about DR then SR and will do whatever it takes to win. I have seen many races won by someone with red SR at the end of the race. In my opinion, blue SR gives bones DR, neutral SR gives DR as is now and red SR gives you half/or no DR increase.
- 724
- Germany
- GTRP_Krypto_
The thing is, there is no way around but solving the problem of detecting who's fault an incident was.
This will only fill the lower DR-rated Lobbys with fast but unfair/ uncautious Drivers.
The main question is anyway, is Motorsport a contact sport or not? Where does side by side racing with little taping end and where does divebombing start?
- 417
- North Bohemia
"Colliding with Another Car" has been there since they introduced the penalty reasons. You mostly get it in situations like this one, when the game doesn't really know what to do but there has been contact and a car has gone off, so someone has to be punished. And with the way this penalty system works, it always punishes the one who stays on the track. Mostly the one who did the right thing and tried to avoid but was unlucky enough to get hit in the process. Happened to me way too many times. Unfortunately the game, in this situation, doesn't (or isn't able to) differentiate between you hitting them and them hitting you. You stayed on the track so you get the penalty. Which is beyond ridiculous in my opinion. Luckily I don't play Sport mode anymore so I don't have to deal with this 🤬.
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- 5
- Poland
I managed to get on to the daily races for the first time in a while last night and wished i hadn't! 7 laps into race C I am heading into turn 1 after slip streaming the car in front, he pulls right to defend, then as i get the run on them into the breaking zone i get squeezed onto the grass on the left, start the slide, control it enough to stay on track (now on the far right) and the culprit that squeezed me off then turns in on me trying to hit the apex no doubt and collides with me again but this time they spin out and I get the penalty........ I would at this point like to say that i manned up and saw out the race in a lowly position, but i quit the race instead shutting my racing down for the evening. In this instance i'm not sure if it is the poor driving standards or the penalty system, but serious, what can be done when you are trying to deal with poor drivers by avoiding an accident yet still get penalised?
