PENALTY SYSTEM IS STILL A PIECE OF ****!!!

[T_revisio]

Here are some fresh examples of our dear penalty system from tonight's Nations race:
Guy bumps me several times and then tries to push me of track on the straight but I don't move. So I get 7 sec, then another guy touches me and goes of and I another two sec:


Then some guy loses control of his car and I have nowhere to go, he gets penalized but I drop even further back:


Finally, when I catch up with the guy in second last pos after previous events, he loses control slams me hard and I get penalized. Where is the justice.


So much for qualifying 4th.

Thanks for uploading these examples, PD need to see them, so please upload these to their gt sport forum and/or put on Twitter and ask them to revert back to the previous system immediately, if they want people to continue playing the game.

Why would anyone doing FIA risk doing a daily race under the new system ?

Why would anyone who has achieved a decent DR level risk it by doing a daily race now ?

Car hits your car from behind - you get a 2s penalty.

Car ahead spins off on its own then hits your car during rejoin - you get a 6s penalty.

This is game ending for lots of people who have enjoyed the game more than ever for the past few months, since pd made some positive changes. Now they have gone back to the bad old days, where everyone was too scared to race and it was always just a yawn inducing train of cars.

 

[NoStopN]

First of all, the rules need to be the same for everyone. The penalty time should depend on force of contact or time lost by the car that got bumped off, not on the difference in DR/SR between the 2 drivers involved.

I've been preaching to the choir about DR/SR not playing any part in assessing penalties. The noobs have to learn early or else it allows bad habits to form. I suppose PD doesn't want them to give up playing so soon after they start. Can't risk losing the fan base, can they? And I would love to see penalties based on the time the victim lost. We've all seen 5 second penalties for someone who runs someone else wide, but the victim didn't spin out & is still hot on the rear bumper of the offender. Not to mention a 2 second penalty for gently nudging someone into a sand trap. It takes 10 seconds just to reset the sand pit car onto the track. So the offender should get a 10 second penalty.

 

[RussRobit]

I think it's time PD partner with a large international insurance company. Yes, we introduce insurance premiums. Feed them all the collision data, frequency and severity, for all the players and let them come up with fault and risk algorithms based on FIA rules. If you are found at fault and or your frequency of collision is higher than a set norm, then your license is suspended and you have to go back to school and or your insurance premiums go up. You wouldn't necessarily have to determine fault, frequency and severity would be enough to determine risk. Some may laugh at this, but those of us who drive and pay insurance premiums understand what a poor driving record means.
Come to think of it, you could use contact frequency and severity to assess penalties. Any contact will have a penalty value, the more severe, the higher the value. Since every driver has a risk profile based on past performance, you could assign a higher percentage of the penalty to one with a higher risk profile.

 

[Phaceless_Ph]

Had some idiot do a ridiculous divebomb into the T2 chicane on last night's Nations Cup Race at Dragon Trail Gardens, I was 3rd and on the outside three-wide with the top-two when said idiot launched from back in 6th (5 car lengths), all three of us get taken out, the idiot get's no penalty and the 3 of us get 5secs each...

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I think Sven has made many valid points in the subject.
In addition I'm also in favour for using ghosting in some way. Ofc there should be racing like in real life but deliberate attacks like making a sharp turn against another car on a straight or failing to slow down before a corner when there are cars in front should also render a ghost.

Another thing that's been mentioned before too is that time in SR nn should be a factor. If you have been SR 99 for a long consecutive time, it should be to your advantage when judging who's at fault.

I don't have an exact formula since SR can fluctuate heavily intra day so it looks like you've had SR 99 all the time. But it would still be adding to the fairness of the system I believe.

Yep, as many people have mentioned before and I actually posted it on the ps blog which was asking feedback on the penalty system a year and a half ago, use an average of the last x races or hours driving time to determine SR instead of the knee jerk system we have currently. Contacts per hour driving time of the last 10 hours should determine SR. Much harder to raise and also harder to lose.

Time penalties to punish your actions in the current race. SR to reflect your long term safety rating for matchmaking. And imo, going off, hitting walls, spinning out should also count against your safety rating.

I think it's time PD partner with a large international insurance company. Yes, we introduce insurance premiums. Feed them all the collision data, frequency and severity, for all the players and let them come up with fault and risk algorithms based on FIA rules. If you are found at fault and or your frequency of collision is higher than a set norm, then your license is suspended and you have to go back to school and or your insurance premiums go up. You wouldn't necessarily have to determine fault, frequency and severity would be enough to determine risk. Some may laugh at this, but those of us who drive and pay insurance premiums understand what a poor driving record means.
Come to think of it, you could use contact frequency and severity to assess penalties. Any contact will have a penalty value, the more severe, the higher the value. Since every driver has a risk profile based on past performance, you could assign a higher percentage of the penalty to one with a higher risk profile.

Exactly. My insurance company actually had us drive around with a dongle thingie in the car for half a year to calculate a safe driving bonus based on hard braking incidents. The smoother you drive the lower your insurance.

First sort out SR determination which will improve matchmaking by leaps and bounds.
Keeping the yoyo SR accounts out of high SR lobbies will reduce the number of incidents and faulty penalties.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Monza was the prime example. A dive bomber who made sure to go fast enough so that the unsuspecting car taking the chicane normally hits the diver on their rear half. The diver has no chance to make the chicane correctly, yet doesn't have to, since the contact of the nose to their rear gave them a free pass to cut the second part of the chicane while leaving the other car with a penalty.

See, this is where, I believe, using KNOWN track information can add context to a situation.

Here is what the game knows. The game knows the track direction, it knows the racing line orientation, it knows the car's orientation, it knows impact forces, it knows braking zones, and I am sure they could dig up code from a few iterations ago where the game also knew if your corner speed exceeded the acceptable speed for a corner.

It's not a very complicated to run through a collection of rules to assign blame, because, after all, blame is simply that. It's the person who broke the rules that is to blame. Make it a point system to assign blame.



EDIT:

I am SO completely frustrated when I can see, with my own eyes, that the game has the information necessary to determine blame. It's already in the game. It's already SHOWN to us.

If you scroll over on the multi-function display, you can see the "radar". That radar shows cars that are reasonably close enough for a pass, so the game CAN use this information to determine if someone is even remotely close enough to make a pass in a braking zone. If someone comes from outside this radius when you enter a breaking zone, they are obviously going to wreck you.

The track map shows the track and the car orientation. At a collision, how can the game NOT look at the orientations and determine blame by who is more divergent from the track's orientation?

Cars slide. a slide is a direction of movement that is very different from orientation. If your car's direction of movement is divergent from your orientation, you can assume blame.

The game knows over steer and under steer. We see the tires wear according to under steer and over steer, so why isn't this also used to assign blame?


At the point of contact, run through these rules and assign 1 point to each driver who is in contravention or even, who is in GREATER contravention of these rules. Whoever accumulates the most points is the person to blame and they get a penalty based on the force of the contact.

 

[breeminator]

If you scroll over on the multi-function display, you can see the "radar". That radar shows cars that are reasonably close enough for a pass, so the game CAN use this information to determine if someone is even remotely close enough to make a pass in a braking zone. If someone comes from outside this radius when you enter a breaking zone, they are obviously going to wreck you.

You just can't make blanket statements like that. The Gr.4 Megane Trophy is OP for braking, for example, and can legitimately overtake in a braking zone from a considerable distance behind. What if the car being overtaken is braking early and gently to save their tyres? What if the overtaking car is on fresh softs, and the car being overtaken is on worn hards? And so on.

 

[Voodoovaj]

You just can't make blanket statements like that. The Gr.4 Megane Trophy is OP for braking, for example, and can legitimately overtake in a braking zone from a considerable distance behind. What if the car being overtaken is braking early and gently to save their tyres? What if the overtaking car is on fresh softs, and the car being overtaken is on worn hards? And so on.

Oh c'mon. Do you realize how far behind a car has to be to be off the radar? It's considerable. Also, here's a rule from real life: The person behind is responsible for the clean pass.

So, let's say you have this OP Megane and you try to make a pass from outside the radar range, you had better make it clean because, if you don't, you'll get the penalty.

The guy in front is braking "early and gently"? Ok, better not hit him.

the overtaking car is on fresh softs, and the car being overtaken is on worn hards? Ok, you'd better not hit him.

Sounds pretty simple to me. If you were on a REAL race track with real consequences, and you make a deep pass on someone, and slam into them, guess what, YOU made an unsafe pass because it's on you to make it a clean and safe pass. The reasons are irrelevant. If you have a perfect car, and the person you are passing has a broken car, you aren't given leeway to make a banzai pass that causes an accident. You are expected to pass, clean and safe.

Go ahead and find a rule, in any rule book, or any racing series, that contradicts what I just said and I will eat my words.

The only time it's even REMOTELY relevant is if the person being pass turns in on you, and that can be detected with current features as well (such as the vehicle vector that is used for server prediction). If the leading car closes the door on you with contact, then they get the penalty.

Seems straightforward to me.

 

[Groundfish]

I’ve had good luck this week with clean races etc.
There is @@@some@@@ determination of blame, the game will sr down you for semi sneaky defense sometimes...
The big problem wi5h passes under braking is most people don’t know how to correctly do it.
You just have to get alongside before turn in point and the corner is yours.
I see a lot of people just try to make it to the apex first and that’s where it’s bad.
If you are alongside at turn in point it’s yours. If you think about it, there’s nothing the other car can do, and that’s the essence of racing.
Control, you control the track. Proper defense is driving in such a way that you make your intentions clear to defend inside, but more importantly drive in such a way that the other car CANNOT pit you or doorbang.
Easier said than done.
Further, a lot of people don’t accept being overtaken well. Usually it’s best to blend in behind asap, sometimes they wanna force this side by side crap, and usually they either go off or the cars behind catch and more places are lost especially early in the race.
Imo, people are already calmed down compared to two weeks ago with this update, so imo it’s good.
I feel ok racing on my main again.
In my race I just did, there were some minor contacts, but no sr down, plus clean race bonus.
A tiny jostle here or there is ok, plus I noticed ghosting seems a bit more aggressive, which helped me out last race a lot.
I had a guy who tried to put me off but he got ghosted...
Maybe the game saw his frequency of contact last several races, and started ghosting him aggressively.
I noticed on alt the game would do this if I was bashing a lot...
I dunno, I was very very down on the system recently, but so far this week, it’s a slight I,prove,ent I think.
Pens are bigger, so that’s good.
You need pens that make it so running someone outside track limits isn’t advantageous.

 

[PirovacBoy]

I‘m reading this thread since a while and many good ideas have been stated by People like @Voodoovaj or @Sven Jurgens.
Some others too.
But, obviously it’s just impossible to implement the Algorithms needed.
I mean, we‘re not talking about Amateurs at PD,honestly, but the PS4 is simply not powerful enough to calculate all of this in real time.
I don’t believe that their Programmers are trolling us with their obvious incompetence how some here maybe might think.
I don’t know if the Ps5 will be able to do so, but I gave up a loooong time ago to get angry about stupid penalties.
Yes, they are absolutely absurd mostly, but that’s sadly the reality.
With every update we get some new directions the penalty coding/detection is going, but it’s no fish nor flesh.
I really believe PD IS trying to improve it, but it just doesn’t work as intended.
I don’t know under which circumstances they test their new Ideas/Codes but obviously they are far from Reality in Real Life Online Racing Casual and Random People.
Maybe their Implemented Algorithm works as intended under specific given Circumstances, but they are sadly not able to be carried over.
I’m aware of the fact that everytime I enter a daily race, anything can happen, so either I accept it or I just stay away, no energy to spend on getting mad at an unpolished Penalty System.
That’s at least my approach

 

[breeminator]

Oh c'mon. Do you realize how far behind a car has to be to be off the radar? It's considerable. Also, here's a rule from real life: The person behind is responsible for the clean pass.

So, let's say you have this OP Megane and you try to make a pass from outside the radar range, you had better make it clean because, if you don't, you'll get the penalty.

The guy in front is braking "early and gently"? Ok, better not hit him.

the overtaking car is on fresh softs, and the car being overtaken is on worn hards? Ok, you'd better not hit him.

I just had a look at a recording to see at what time gap the car behind dropped off my radar. It was 0.33 seconds where they completely disappeared at 104mph. I assume it's based on distance, so around 0.2 secs at 170mph, say. I don't think that's a time gap where you can say it's impossible for the car behind to legitimately overtake if they have one or more advantages over the car being overtaken. IMO it's just too blunt a tool. If the threshold is set big enough to make it almost impossible that someone could legitimately overtake from that far back, it would just be too insensitive to detect most bad overtakes. Even if it was set to 2 seconds gap, say, what is to stop someone from taking out the car behind by just braking really early, then turning into the passing car to give them a penalty?

 

[Voodoovaj]

But, obviously it’s just impossible to implement the Algorithms needed.
I mean, we‘re not talking about Amateurs at PD,

Two things,

First:
99% of the contact we see does not require much of an algorithm at all. You can simply compare the force and implement so simple rules.
One rule can be that the player behind needs to make a clean pass.

Why do we have to deal with this ridiculous rule that contact+going off track = penalty for the car that remains on track? That's just dumb!!

I guarantee, GUARANTEE, that the great majority of the issues with the current system could be solved with what is already in place, what was in place, and a few simple tweaks/rules.

Second:
Just because it's PD doesn't mean they automatically have great people. They may have some fantastic coders on the team, but that doesn't mean that the folks dealing with the penalty system are great coders. I don't think PD thought this was as big of a deal as running in 8K on PS5.

A good game play programmer and game designer could come up with a better system.

Given how bad the single player experience is, I am confident that PD does not employ good game designers and game play programmers.

 

[NoStopN]

But, obviously it’s just impossible to implement the Algorithms needed.
I mean, we‘re not talking about Amateurs at PD,honestly, but the PS4 is simply not powerful enough to calculate all of this in real time.

Well, the Xbox One isn't a supercomputer, but it can calculate & assign blame in Forza Motorsport 7 within seconds. It might miss a call or 2, but from the videos I've seen of it in action, it gets the punishment correct more often than GTS.

 

[Sven Jurgens]

I‘m reading this thread since a while and many good ideas have been stated by People like @Voodoovaj or @Sven Jurgens.
Some others too.
But, obviously it’s just impossible to implement the Algorithms needed.
I mean, we‘re not talking about Amateurs at PD,honestly, but the PS4 is simply not powerful enough to calculate all of this in real time.
I don’t believe that their Programmers are trolling us with their obvious incompetence how some here maybe might think.
I don’t know if the Ps5 will be able to do so, but I gave up a loooong time ago to get angry about stupid penalties.
Yes, they are absolutely absurd mostly, but that’s sadly the reality.
With every update we get some new directions the penalty coding/detection is going, but it’s no fish nor flesh.
I really believe PD IS trying to improve it, but it just doesn’t work as intended.
I don’t know under which circumstances they test their new Ideas/Codes but obviously they are far from Reality in Real Life Online Racing Casual and Random People.
Maybe their Implemented Algorithm works as intended under specific given Circumstances, but they are sadly not able to be carried over.
I’m aware of the fact that everytime I enter a daily race, anything can happen, so either I accept it or I just stay away, no energy to spend on getting mad at an unpolished Penalty System.
That’s at least my approach

As @Voodoovaj said, the algorithms are not that complicated. Plus the ps4 has plenty resources left over since online it doesn't have to calculate paths for 19 AI cars, keeping them all on track and separated from each other and the player. The penalty system can make use of those resources and algorithms together with the forward prediction that's already in the game to deal with lag.

Sure, the current 'algorithm' works in a straight up punt someone off the road event. That's about the only time it gets it right, well not always, if the punter comes from outside track limits the other car can still end up with a penalty.

I really believe PD is not putting much effort into it at all. A little tweak once every few months is not taking the problem seriously.

Ignoring the problem is not going to fix it. Yet perhaps PD is happy with all the alt accounts from people not willing to risk their SR/DR in the daily races, a higher player count always looks good on paper.

 

[fastone371]

I think the previous equal blame was better but somehow PD thinks everyone hated it.

 

[CrimsonKing]

This system is worse than ever. This week I've received several penalties when I was the victim, received a 7 sec penalty for touching a car that spun in front of me and the worst was one for PASSING UNDER YELLOW FLAG. I've said that I hate the penalty system more than I hate dirty drivers.
At this point PD should just accept that they failed miserably trying to implement a penalty system and just get rid of it.
And is it me or do the cars now bounce like billiard balls? I mean, more than before.

 

[HERE4BEER3]

So was there some sort of update to the penalty system? In my fia race last might I did not see a penalty greater than 3 seconds. I got spun into the wall, went from p7 to last and the guy got a 2 second penalty. Later I the race I accidentally punted a guy off on the last turn at tsukuba, I got a 2 second penalty, he lost at least 20 seconds going I to the gravel. Was doing daily race a on my second account, a guy e-brakes into that last chicane on miyabi, takes out 3 other drivers, 3 second penalty. This is just stupid. It's gone completely backwards. Even if they can't get it 100% right penalties should be more severe.

 

[Jujar100]

Excuse screenshots rather than a video but the penalty system is still pathetic. Just did a daily race at Laguna Seca. Running 3rd, 2nd place loses control, hits 1st place sending him spinning. I manage to swerve in time to miss them but can't avoid the spinning ghost. I go through the ghost and then get hit with a 7 second penalty!!!!!

 

[PirovacBoy]

You can simply compare the force

The System can’t even compare bump Physics aka. Pinball Physics, maybe that’s a reason why your very good idea of implementing Force Comparison is impossible.

contact+going off track = penalty for the car that remains on track

A stubborn Algorithm, calculating that the Car that remains on track MUST have been the Aggressor.
I still believe that if it would be that easy like you said, it would have been fixed since ages or it would have been like that since release.
The Continuous Tweaking only proves that it’s simply not possible.
Sadly.

 

[NoStopN]

Excuse screenshots rather than a video but the penalty system is still pathetic. Just did a daily race at Laguna Seca. Running 3rd, 2nd place loses control, hits 1st place sending him spinning. I manage to swerve in time to miss them but can avoid the spinning ghost. I go through the ghost and then get hit with a 7 second penalty!!!!!

View attachment 875874
View attachment 875873

This doesn't make me feel any better. Ghosting is supposed to help reduce contact, & therefore penalties. If we're going to get penalties for driving through ghosts, we're all screwed.

 

[djidane57]

Excuse screenshots rather than a video but the penalty system is still pathetic. Just did a daily race at Laguna Seca. Running 3rd, 2nd place loses control, hits 1st place sending him spinning. I manage to swerve in time to miss them but can't avoid the spinning ghost. I go through the ghost and then get hit with a 7 second penalty!!!!!

View attachment 875876
View attachment 875875
View attachment 875874
View attachment 875873

let me guess , the guy who lost control first got absolutely nothing?

 

[breeminator]

At this point PD should just accept that they failed miserably trying to implement a penalty system and just get rid of it.

Games that don't have penalty systems have much worse driving standards than GTS. The existence of the penalty system, and the resulting better driving, is a major reason why people are playing GTS rather than other games. I do think, though, that they have hugely messed something up with the changes in the latest update, and they should immediately revert the penalty system to how it was before the last update while they try to figure out what has gone wrong.

 

[Jujar100]

let me guess , the guy who lost control first got absolutely nothing?

Yep! Good guess!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

The System can’t even compare bump Physics aka. Pinball Physics, maybe that’s a reason why your very good idea of implementing Force Comparison is impossible.


A stubborn Algorithm, calculating that the Car that remains on track MUST have been the Aggressor.
I still believe that if it would be that easy like you said, it would have been fixed since ages or it would have been like that since release.
The Continuous Tweaking only proves that it’s simply not possible.
Sadly.

Bump physics are due to lag. You see the result of your forward predicted car on the hitting the other car on their system. Your system can't move other cars, only you car can be affected by the forward predicted cars from other players. The collision you see is the effect of the forward predicted cars on your system hitting yours, plus the resulting forward predicted car's path after it collided with your forward predicted car on their system.

The way the online works in GTS results in collisions not abiding the laws of physics. Action != reaction since the game doesn't play out the same on the systems involved. Keeping it real time on everyone's system means driving against forward predicted cars on each system. This was also the culprit when the penalty system relied on checking where the collision occurred, nose to front or back half. With even a little latency the actual collision position could be completely different on the systems involved and it would usually be impossible to tell who was in the wrong by only looking at the unreliable contact position. You could even be penalized for hitting a laggy car on your system, when there was never any contact on their system.

PD gave up on the algorithms looking where the contact occurred and changed it all for the much more simple system we have now. Instead they shouldn't have only looked at the contact position on your system but compare it to what it was on the other system, as well as checking the paths and inputs of both drivers. Before the change the systems didn't even share any info and you had cars with flashing penalty signs crossing the finish on your system to then find out that they never got a penalty on theirs.

It was a knee jerk reaction to throw it all out, instead it needed to also look at the paths and inputs of the cars and compare that between systems. Something the server should be doing (which is nothing but a router atm). But perhaps the server budget is too low to have it do anything significant or put resources into developing a steward system server side. All we have now is 2 clients trying to solve it with incomplete information, then informing the other client of the penalties that should be issued. I don't know exactly what happens when the 2 clients disagree, but I have had penalties where I never touched the other car on my system, but since the forward predicted path of my car knocked them off, I was to blame for their connection issues.

The system needs more info to work. Contact, who goes off, not enough to make any determination.

 

[PirovacBoy]

Bump physics are due to lag. You see the result of your forward predicted car on the hitting the other car on their system. Your system can't move other cars, only you car can be affected by the forward predicted cars from other players. The collision you see is the effect of the forward predicted cars on your system hitting yours, plus the resulting forward predicted car's path after it collided with your forward predicted car on their system.

The way the online works in GTS results in collisions not abiding the laws of physics. Action != reaction since the game doesn't play out the same on the systems involved. Keeping it real time on everyone's system means driving against forward predicted cars on each system. This was also the culprit when the penalty system relied on checking where the collision occurred, nose to front or back half. With even a little latency the actual collision position could be completely different on the systems involved and it would usually be impossible to tell who was in the wrong by only looking at the unreliable contact position. You could even be penalized for hitting a laggy car on your system, when there was never any contact on their system.

PD gave up on the algorithms looking where the contact occurred and changed it all for the much more simple system we have now. Instead they shouldn't have only looked at the contact position on your system but compare it to what it was on the other system, as well as checking the paths and inputs of both drivers. Before the change the systems didn't even share any info and you had cars with flashing penalty signs crossing the finish on your system to then find out that they never got a penalty on theirs.

It was a knee jerk reaction to throw it all out, instead it needed to also look at the paths and inputs of the cars and compare that between systems. Something the server should be doing (which is nothing but a router atm). But perhaps the server budget is too low to have it do anything significant or put resources into developing a steward system server side. All we have now is 2 clients trying to solve it with incomplete information, then informing the other client of the penalties that should be issued. I don't know exactly what happens when the 2 clients disagree, but I have had penalties where I never touched the other car on my system, but since the forward predicted path of my car knocked them off, I was to blame for their connection issues.

The system needs more info to work. Contact, who goes off, not enough to make any determination.

Wow, you are right, lots of what you explained happened to me too, and by reading it carefully it definitely makes sense. Thanks for explaining me how this System works and what’s actually going on behind the Scenes.
But anyway in that Case, it seems like we will be forced to live with these issues even in the future.

 

[breeminator]

I do think, though, that they have hugely messed something up with the changes in the latest update, and they should immediately revert the penalty system to how it was before the last update while they try to figure out what has gone wrong.

Just seen someone get an 8 second penalty in a daily race. Two cars were side by side, there was slight contact, but nothing either driver could be blamed for. Nobody left the track. They need to revert this penalty system back to how it was before the update ASAP, this is crazy.

 

[Voodoovaj]

The System can’t even compare bump Physics aka. Pinball Physics, maybe that’s a reason why your very good idea of implementing Force Comparison is impossible.

The game MUST know forces since it is that calculation that causes cars to be moved around on impact. An impact occurs in a single frame between (at least) two items. It is exceedingly possible to compare.

I wrote a mobile game in 6 weeks a few years years ago as a way of teaching myself C#. I was using impact force to run animations.

If I can do it in Unity on a simple side project, they can do it too.

A stubborn Algorithm, calculating that the Car that remains on track MUST have been the Aggressor.
I still believe that if it would be that easy like you said, it would have been fixed since ages or it would have been like that since release.
The Continuous Tweaking only proves that it’s simply not possible.
Sadly.

Back in 2005 we had bug that was present in our game for more than a year. No one could figure it out. This task eventually landed on the desk of a junior coder as a make-work task, since all the best programmers in the company had failed it.

I was placed in charge of keeping tabs on it with him.

Together, we did what none of the "elite" coders had done. We sat down and talked it out. In less than a week, we found that the bug was a race condition issue.

So,

Elite coders + 18 months of the wrong approach = nothing

Junior coder + Senior Producer + A thoughtful approach = fixed in 4 days.


If there is one thing that I learned in my time in game development it's that hubris can kill your projects. Believing something is impossible or even nearly impossible will blind you to simple elegant solutions.


Remember, they had a system that worked as we've been describing. It was simply TOO unforgiving because it gave big penalties for light contact. All that is needed it to revive that solution and add some degree of forgiveness for light impacts.

 

[PirovacBoy]

The game MUST know forces since it is that calculation that causes cars to be moved around on impact. An impact occurs in a single frame between (at least) two items. It is exceedingly possible to compare.

I wrote a mobile game in 6 weeks a few years years ago as a way of teaching myself C#. I was using impact force to run animations.

If I can do it in Unity on a simple side project, they can do it too.



Back in 2005 we had bug that was present in our game for more than a year. No one could figure it out. This task eventually landed on the desk of a junior coder as a make-work task, since all the best programmers in the company had failed it.

I was placed in charge of keeping tabs on it with him.

Together, we did what none of the "elite" coders had done. We sat down and talked it out. In less than a week, we found that the bug was a race condition issue.

So,

Elite coders + 18 months of the wrong approach = nothing

Junior coder + Senior Producer + A thoughtful approach = fixed in 4 days.


If there is one thing that I learned in my time in game development it's that hubris can kill your projects. Believing something is impossible or even nearly impossible will blind you to simple elegant solutions.


Remember, they had a system that worked as we've been describing. It was simply TOO unforgiving because it gave big penalties for light contact. All that is needed it to revive that solution and add some degree of forgiveness for light impacts.

Ok, so that brings back some hope, that maybe it can get fixed.
You must know I have zero knowledge of the Stuff you told here but it all sounds quite plausible .
You definitely seem to know what you’re talking about.
Let’s hope they get it right in the next GT Game, and some competent Coders too

 

[zaligrace]

Games that don't have penalty systems have much worse driving standards than GTS. The existence of the penalty system, and the resulting better driving, is a major reason why people are playing GTS rather than other games. I do think, though, that they have hugely messed something up with the changes in the latest update, and they should immediately revert the penalty system to how it was before the last update while they try to figure out what has gone wrong.

completely agree...I got tapped by someone on a turn today and got a 2 second penalty plus penalties for going through ghosting cars! This new penalty system has ruined all my hard work raising my dr/sr rating. Back down to low A rating after climbing to almost A+. Come on PD...do something and sort it out!

 

[Sven Jurgens]

Just seen someone get an 8 second penalty in a daily race. Two cars were side by side, there was slight contact, but nothing either driver could be blamed for. Nobody left the track. They need to revert this penalty system back to how it was before the update ASAP, this is crazy.

I don't get it. I saw people get penalties at Laguna Seca but it was only 1 or 2 sec for spinning a car out or sending them into the sand. The car that got bumped off fell almost 10 seconds behind, while the 2 sec penalty the car in front of me got only reduced my gap to him by less than a second. The penalty zone is in a braking zone again, pointless.

And everyone still ended up with a blue S at the end, 14 laps, 42 sectors, 18 or 19 SR to spend on bumping people out of the way.