Petition: Banish the gift limit in GT5

[sikbeta]

I used to not send cars very much so it never really bothered me, but as of lately I've started making replica cars to share with people, and I've come to realize that not only have they patched the old trick to be able to gift more than one car per day, they've patched it so you have to wait a full 24 hours in between sending cars.

This is absolutely ridiculous. Sharing cars in GT5 should not be limited to one car every 24 hours. 4 or 5 cars a day I can see being reasonable.

If you agree, sign the petition and hopefully PD takes notice.

The gift limit on cars, paint, gear is wholly pathetic. Saying it's childish wouldn't be too far wide of the mark.

But PD aren't likely going to change it now. They implemented them for a reason. A reason only known to themselves.

The System was Totally Abused online matches were filled with X2010, Mark IV, F330 and the Jags, while It took my craploads of time of grinding to get F330, not fun at all

I think PD sould soften a little bit and let us gift cars as much as we want, being the limit the 1.000.000Cr mark

Something like, if send a crappy Honda Today that worth -10k doesn't take away my gifting slot and I'd be able to gift more cars the same day until I reach the limit, that way we can send more cars, but we're not punished to prevent some guys abuse the system so, no one is able to get the expensive cars without working for them 👍

 

[Tornado]

The System was Totally Abused online matches were filled with X2010, Mark IV, F330 and the Jags, while It took my craploads of time of grinding to get F330, not fun at all

Yeah. If only PD had implemented some sort of room restriction options to keep stuff like the X1 out of rooms where it wasn't wanted, so that reason would stop being a valid one to keep the limit in place



Oh, wait.








I note how you also basically just spelled out what the actual problem was, but then turned around and said that everyone should suffer through it.

 

[sikbeta]

Yeah. If only PD had implemented some sort of room restriction options to keep stuff like the X1 out of rooms where it wasn't wanted, so that reason would stop being a valid one to keep the limit in place


Oh, wait.

Was that before or after the update that rule out no more unlimited gifting? just asking because I don't remember, also I was pointing out how easy was to cheat on the system something you should have earn it, like in a hard way, for me the F330 was like WOW! I finally got that freaking expensive car, to end up realizing that people could just gift them so easily

I trade cars in the marketplace and never use the tickets to get those cars in my main account, with the B-Spec Seasonal that paid 6m Cr and 8m Cr now I have 3 Jags, 3 F330 and 3 Mark IV I only use the tickets to get cars I want to collect and are not in the OCD 👍

I note how you also basically just spelled out what the actual problem was, but then turned around and said that everyone should suffer through it.

Could you explain 2nd part of your post?, I said the 1m Cr limit is OK, but it should be better if I could gift as many cars as I can until I reach the limit of credits allowed

I think the Marketplace should be added and work directly from the game, would be fantastic 👍

 

[Ravicale]

how about you could trade as many cars as you want per day, however their total value can only add up to 1 million cr?

 

[Exorcet]

for me the F330 was like WOW! I finally got that freaking expensive car

That pretty much negates everything you said.

If "earning" the car was so great, you shouldn't care that someone else duped it.

If you were upset that you had to put so much time into getting something for trivial reasons, you obviously prefer getting things for no effort (which makes perfect sense) and you should have started duping.

Either way, there is no reason to oppose duping based on what you said.

No, no should have to do things the hard way. People should be allowed to do whatever they want when things they do don't impact other people. Or, am I in my right to force you to play every future GT game with every car available from the start just because I'd prefer that way?

 

[sikbeta]

That pretty much negates everything you said.

If "earning" the car was so great, you shouldn't care that someone else duped it.

If you were upset that you had to put so much time into getting something for trivial reasons, you obviously prefer getting things for no effort (which makes perfect sense) and you should have started duping.

Either way, there is no reason to oppose duping based on what you said.

No, no should have to do things the hard way. People should be allowed to do whatever they want when things they do don't impact other people. Or, am I in my right to force you to play every future GT game with every car available from the start just because I'd prefer that way?

Eh, never said I was upset, just said that earning things the way they should are better in my opinion, it's my option to play the games that way, applied to all games, from GT5 to the old school RE games, back when gifting was so easy, I didn't know you could get any car that way, not saying is wrong either, I just like the way the marketplace works now, everyone has a shcedule and we have community that's awesome for trading all kind of things in the game and I think it should be applied in the game as well, nothing else, I'm not pointing finger to anyone 👍

 

[Exorcet]

Eh, never said I was upset, just said that earning things the way they should are better in my opinion, it's my option to play the games that way

Duping never restricted your options though.

we have community that's awesome for trading all kind of things in the game and I think it should be applied in the game as well, nothing else, I'm not pointing finger to anyone 👍

The community is the same one that duped everything.

I'm not attack you or anything, but what I want is what you laid out in the first part of your post. Everyone should have the option to play as they want. That would including getting the expensive cars for no work. While earning them is better in your opinion, it's not in a lot of other people's minds. It's simply a time sink.

I don't really see why the two ideals can't coexist.

 

[sikbeta]

Duping never restricted your options though.



The community is the same one that duped everything.

I'm not attack you or anything, but what I want is what you laid out in the first part of your post. Everyone should have the option to play as they want. That would including getting the expensive cars for no work. While earning them is better in your opinion, it's not in a lot of other people's minds. It's simply a time sink.

I don't really see why the two ideals can't coexist.

It's not like people cannot play the game like they want, in fact the system has a workaround to act almost the same as it used, now with backups, you can have all the car you want, it just doesn't let you get loads expensive cars at any time you want, that was done when people abused the system, now they added more restrictions and people are used to it, it's not worth making such a fuzz about it, I didn't like that PD took out the chase camera movement with the new update, lots of people didn't like it, so that's what they did and now I'm getting used to it and there is no problem

 

[amar212]

I don't know, I think this whole *debate* is the classic example of The Clash of the Conceptions™.

There is a first group that have very clear idea about being entitled to the content of the game because the game was bought for their own money and they *own* the content per-se despite the any kind of in-game structure or similar mechanics implemented by game-developer. Thus, the content should be available to them no-matter-what and under any circumstances and anytime they want.

The first group supports all potential workarounds in favour of their entitlement. Either it is limitless gifting, community trading, exploiting the ability to backup game-save (duping) or more aggressive methods of exploiting the Borrow feature (borrow glitch).

The first group have a very self-conscious reasoning regarding this matter:
- I own the game, thus I own the content
- Locking content by any mean is against my *right* to have content available because I own it
- My own entitlement does not hurt others: if other wants to obey the rules of the game in order to get the content, that is their problem, not mine
- Game structure is broken because there is no *fast* way to obtain all content (either Seasonal Events or Remote Racing are not acceptable)
- Existence of OCD/UCD is also questionable because it is *random* and *arbitrary* and does not allow for the straightforward access to content in the desired state (brand new vehicles, 0/0/0, etc..).

Thus, the first group is completely against any limitations in Gifting. Also, the first group does not support even the "Vanilla"* lockdown where you could gift any car (non restricted by value) in 24-hours window. The only solution acceptable to the first group is complete removal of all limits and ability to Gift anything, anytime and anywhere.

The first group is the most vocal regarding their agenda, naturally.

* "Vanilla" is the common wording for the initial (1.0) version of any software prior to the updates, thus represent the GT5's state before Gift limit was introduced

The second group is willing to accept the limits of getting the content to some extent, although they would prefer the return to the "Vanilla" state.

Second group tends not to be so aggressive regarding voicing of their agenda. They more-less accept the imposed restrictions and they're trying to do their best in order to achieve their goal under the limits imposed by the progression-design.

Second group is the neutral one.

The third group supports the restriction in full. They mainly represent the *old-school* players of Gran Turismo series that have the perfect subjective understanding for the imposed restrictions. They support the conception where certain amount of the "effort" should be invested into obtaining any type of content, especially the *high-tier* one.

Third group supports the logic where *high-tier* content should be "reserved" for those that invest the effort in the game under the rules of the game. Because of their entitlement, they're often called "elitists" or "arrogant".

They're equally aggressive in voicing their entitlement as the first group.

The third group also have a very self-conscious reasoning regarding this matter:
- Game-design is deliberate and should be obeyed
- Idea to have unlockable content is valid and logical from the aspect of the GT series philosophy and heritage
- Any workarounds of the restrictions imposed by game is not acceptable and should be prevented
- Allowing anyone to have all content without any game-allowed effort leads to breaking the *hierarchy* where *high-tier* content should be available to those that invest the effort under the rules of the game in order to get it
- Restrictions are the tool to prolong the longevity of the game from the perspective of "collecting" thus they're 100% righteous

Of course, some generalisation is displayed in above, but it is pretty much like that.

From my personal perspective I see the following reasons behind the idea of the Gifting and Gift Restrictions:
- Gifting is the great conception for enhancing the community/friendship aspect of the game
- Gifting is the logical step forward from the original GT-series "Memory Card Trade" functionality from the previous games (car for a car)
- Very much needed option to have ability to backup the save allowed for a workaround and lead to aggressive abuse of the Gift-feature
- By PD own words, server-traffic in that "do whatever you like" period was creating a massive overloads on their infrastructure and lead to problems in game-functionality (people were not receiving Gifts, most commonly)
- Also, some of the *high-tier* content was starting to get "monetized" for the real-currency (infamous E-Bay sales of X1, etc.), which was seen as negative PR and unacceptable outcome
- That workaround was patched by introduction of the Gift restriction (1 Gift per-day, 1M value-limit)
- Despite the gift-restriction, the ability to trade LV Tickets was left intact under the vanilla-24-hours-limit for collector purposes and further tools for earning the credits were introduced: Seasonal Events and Remote Racing
- Current state of the affair is the best compromise towards maintaining the both "gifters" and "drivers" happy to some extent because either group is not satisfied with the any solution except one they're entitled to

In the end, it is very important to say how GT series have the structured-access to the content built into own heritage from the very beginning. The idea to have different *tiers* of content exists from the very first game and represents the important part of the both RPG/collector aspect of the game. Many cars were not obtainable by any mean other than reaching some in-game goal - such as golding all the licenses in order to get Nismo 400R which can't be bought in the Dealerships because it have no price associated to it - and they represent the *prize* for the effort of the players.

Because of the above, the idea of introduction of the Gift Restriction limit after the introduction of the game-save-backup functionality is more than logical from the perspective of GT-series philosophy and heritage.

The Clash of the Conceptions™ can not be solved.

 

[Guardian]

]The gift limit on cars, paint, gear is wholly pathetic. Saying it's childish wouldn't be too far wide of the mark.[/COLOR]

But PD aren't likely going to change it now. They implemented them for a reason. A reason only known to themselves.

+1:tup:

I agree, it's such a babyish thing to do; preventing us from trading the cars that are actually worth trading.

 

[thelvynau]

I agree wish I could trade more in a day.

 

[Exorcet]

The Clash of the Conceptions™ can not be solved.

There is a very important distinction between the two "extreme" groups. One is open to people enjoying the game, the other demands that people can't enjoy the game if they don't think exactly as the group does.

Those who defend "traditional" GT don't have much ground to stand on, IMO. Tradition is a terrible reason to support something, and it works for anything, not just things that people deem OK. Duping is a GT tradition since the memory card trick allowed this, or was it free tuning? Track breakouts are GT tradition, and so it a lack of damage and cockpit view. If this group is OK with the breaking of any tradition, then tradition alone can't be used as justification.

The third group also have a very self-conscious reasoning regarding this matter:
- Game-design is deliberate and should be obeyed
- Idea to have unlockable content is valid and logical from the aspect of the GT series philosophy and heritage
- Any workarounds of the restrictions imposed by game is not acceptable and should be prevented
- Allowing anyone to have all content without any game-allowed effort leads to breaking the *hierarchy* where *high-tier* content should be available to those that invest the effort under the rules of the game in order to get it
- Restrictions are the tool to prolong the longevity of the game from the perspective of "collecting" thus they're 100% righteous

-Anything the devs say is OK, so if group 1 convinces the devs that everything unlocked is OK, and the devs agree, it is then OK. Group 3 can't complain.

-I addressed tradition above.

-What if PD doesn't consider those workarounds to be important? What if those workarounds are traditional?

-Group 1's way doesn't prevent Group 3 from achieving this hierarchy. If that's not enough for them, then they are admitting that other people can tell them how to play the game. So Group 1 could convince PD that fully open content is OK and Group 3 can't complain. If Group 3 wants status, they can have their cars' names displayed in gold or something when they play online. Or if the very idea of playing with "cheaters" it too much, they can have their own separate side of the server.

-Whose longevity is being increased? If it's about collecting, then Group 1's method has no impact. Simply do as I suggested; you either start with everything and can't trade or you play a mode where GT is something like it is now and you have to get credits to buy cars and possibly unlock others. Group 3's game in not affected.

- By PD own words, server-traffic in that "do whatever you like" period was creating a massive overloads on their infrastructure and lead to problems in game-functionality (people were not receiving Gifts, most commonly)
- Also, some of the *high-tier* content was starting to get "monetized" for the real-currency (infamous E-Bay sales of X1, etc.), which was seen as negative PR and unacceptable outcome
- That workaround was patched by introduction of the Gift restriction (1 Gift per-day, 1M value-limit)

The first point I've honestly never heard before, but of course that would actually be an acceptable reason for the gift limit.

On points 2 and 3, while the value limit did kill eBay selling of X1's, duping or just making the car easier to obtain would have made eBay selling practically worthless. Also, PD should have just gotten eBay to get rid of the X1's.