Physics thread

[LogiForce]

The original MNP 911 car had all the aero bits and I think all of RUF CTR came with it ( front and rear valance, fiberglass front and rear bumper ), stock carrera engine lid to reduce rear drag. The front spoiler + valance/2nd lip + oil cooler for example are compulsory part when RUF Turbo/CTR engine kit installed.

Which particular car was Pcars aimed to model, the MNP 911 car ? Doug should notice the boost valve if he has driven CTR ( if he took a good look around the interior, it's location is quite "hidden" from plain sight ), but the owner would be very cautious letting someone plays with it I wonder if it's modeled too in the interior. ( little details )

Doug did mention a boost valve but that he did not know if it was stock or aftermarket.

That said, the car in-game is the pre-production model with the NACA ducts. This is because that was the car given to SMS at the request for a photoshoot for reference material. (looked it up on the WMD forum. )

 

[GordonS]

What was your diff setup on the 2 cars you tested?

They are both in stock settings in my carage with no driving aides.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Doug did mention a boost valve but that he did not know if it was stock or aftermarket.

That said, the car in-game is the pre-production model with the NACA ducts. This is because that was the car given to SMS at the request for a photoshoot for reference material. (looked it up on the WMD forum. )

The boost valve is RUF original equipment ( RUF Boost Control Kit w/Gauge ), this is from original RUF brochure for RUF Turbo / CTR.

The Boost Control kit w/gauge is the bottom right, the black round knob with RUF marking is the boost valve, later version is in bright Silver color for easier visibility and had grooved knob head for easier grip, turn clockwise to increase max boost ( + ), counter clockwise to reduce max boost ( - )
The only YB with NACA duct is the original car MNP 911

 

[ozwheels]

They are both in stock settings in my carage with no driving aides.

You should try 0 pre-load and see if your experience changes. Lift off oversteer isn't magic, it still follows physics and vehicle dynamics. If your front tires are already at their edge of the traction circle or beyond (understeer) then lifting isn't going to produce immediate oversteer. The diff preload also acts like a damper for very sudden weight transfer.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Doug did mention a boost valve but that he did not know if it was stock or aftermarket.

That said, the car in-game is the pre-production model with the NACA ducts. This is because that was the car given to SMS at the request for a photoshoot for reference material. (looked it up on the WMD forum. )

Just read my old saved notes again, the RUF CTR Boost Control Kit are adjustable from 10+psi to 21+psi ( close to 22 psi ), so it's 0.70 Bar to 1.5 Bar, sorry for the confusion I doubt RUF CTR owner would use max boost, 1.4 Bar / about 20 psi sounds more reasonable reliable boost level I saved information from Road and Track article on RUF CTR in early 90's.

 

[svenvangent]

Damn. ..... in a way I like the yello bird but because of the to twisty side of it I'm gonna abandoning this one .
Practice I have more or less control over it but than ...... a man want to do a race with it , so ..... AI at 80 % at Brands Hats and of we go 1 2 3 and of I was from the racetrack.
Car is to sensibly when bean crasher by one of the AI .
Wanted to place this yello bird in my favourite cars .

 

[GordonS]

You should try 0 pre-load and see if your experience changes. Lift off oversteer isn't magic, it still follows physics and vehicle dynamics. If your front tires are already at their edge of the traction circle or beyond (understeer) then lifting isn't going to produce immediate oversteer. The diff preload also acts like a damper for very sudden weight transfer.

Thank you.
I quick tested in rainy weather with controller and it seems that tuning Limited Slip Deceleration Lock at 0% and Limited Slip Preload at 0N-m is the way to destruction on wet road. So it seems with those two settings the Yellowbird is tuned to be a bit safer for the larger audience. Still, because I used the controller more testing with steering wheel is needed..

 

[OooAhh Cantona]

Damn. ..... in a way I like the yello bird but because of the to twisty side of it I'm gonna abandoning this one .
Practice I have more or less control over it but than ...... a man want to do a race with it , so ..... AI at 80 % at Brands Hats and of we go 1 2 3 and of I was from the racetrack.
Car is to sensibly when bean crasher by one of the AI .
Wanted to place this yello bird in my favourite cars .

Ha! I feel the same way. Although I have not tried the Yellowbird in race event. I've been able to tune the car for me to control the tail slide. But I can see my lap times in practice mode won't be competitive enough for races.

 

[svenvangent]

Ha! I feel the same way. Although I have not tried the Yellowbird in race event. I've been able to tune the car for me to control the tail slide. But I can see my lap times in practice mode won't be competitive enough for races.

For me with this car it seems to be everything or nothing , many other racing cars in Project Cars you've got a kind of comfort zone when you go hard you still can cats sometimes the mistakes you make , in case of the yello burdy it is not easy .

 

[OooAhh Cantona]

@Ridox2JZGTE - I tried the Denloc tires on the CTR. To no surprise, it's less grippy than Masculin street mediums. Car is drivable but noticeably slower lap times. I may return to have some fun with OEM/replica setups in the future when I've completed the game. I appreciated your GT6 replica garage when I was looking for other ways to enjoy GT6.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

@Ridox2JZGTE - I tried the Denloc tires on the CTR. To no surprise, it's less grippy than Masculin street mediums. Car is drivable but noticeably slower lap times. I may return to have some fun with OEM/replica setups in the future when I've completed the game. I appreciated your GT6 replica garage when I was looking for other ways to enjoy GT6.

Glad to be of help, btw have you ever driven my YB GT6 at Brands Hatch GP ?

 

[OooAhh Cantona]

Glad to be of help, btw have you ever driven my YB GT6 at Brands Hatch GP ?

Likely. I didn't try all your replica tunes, just the ones that interested me. Pretty sure the YB would have interested me. But I haven't played GT6 since pCARS release.

 

[LVracerGT]

I just got my T300 on Friday and have been playing with the FFB and have it feeling pretty good with the exception of oversteer, I'm having a hard time feeling the rear when it initially begins to go. Can anyone here give me some suggestions on what to adjust to get a better feel at the rear of the car? I'm loving the physics so far but having to drive a bit nervous is making it hard to push the limits and really test the cars properly.

 

[Spitfire77]

I just got my T300 on Friday and have been playing with the FFB and have it feeling pretty good with the exception of oversteer, I'm having a hard time feeling the rear when it initially begins to go. Can anyone here give me some suggestions on what to adjust to get a better feel at the rear of the car? I'm loving the physics so far but having to drive a bit nervous is making it hard to push the limits and really test the cars properly.

Edit - I forgot - before you change anything screenshot your settings or write them down in case you want to go back to them. - You may have good global settings so maybe just skip to Fy+SoPlateral settings for the individual car.

If you want the quick easy.. go with jack spades global settings and his Fy+SoPLateral tweaks- info in this thread.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?22938-Jack-Spade-FFB-Tweaker-Files

The important part is the Relative Adj and Soft Clipping settings and find a good balance of the FFB, Tire Force, and Steering Gain setting. Try level C or B to start with

From left to right (A - D) - heavy compression ----> moderate compression - based on FFB = 100, Tire Force = 100

Relative Adjust Gain-----(A) 1.30 - (B) 1.20 - (C) 1.15 - (D) 1.10
Relative Adjust Bleed--------0.10 ------ 0.10 ------0.10 ------0.10
Relative Adjust Clamp ------1.15 ------ 1.10 ------1.03 ------0.95
Soft Clip (Half Input)---------0.50 ----- 0.80 ------1.10 ------1.29
Soft Clip (Full Output)--------1.39 ----- 1.29 ------1.20 ------1.10

Then for main force levels FFB=75, Tirefoce=100 and Steering Gain=.75 OR FFB=100 Tire Force=60 Steering Gain = .75

Then use the Fy+SoPLateral style for each car, it gives extra info based on what the rear of the car is doing. Easily found on this web page. .. http://pcars.oscarolim.pt/cars


If you are on ps4 with a T300.. there is this thread on the official forms. Lots of us played in the settings. It is a long and confusing read.. but some great info.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...00-wheel-settings-post-you-preferred-settings

My Personal settings http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...red-settings&p=1109709&viewfull=1#post1109709

Another Users settings that are very good - reset to default then enter what he listed.
http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...red-settings&p=1105964&viewfull=1#post1105964

 

[ozwheels]

I just got my T300 on Friday and have been playing with the FFB and have it feeling pretty good with the exception of oversteer, I'm having a hard time feeling the rear when it initially begins to go. Can anyone here give me some suggestions on what to adjust to get a better feel at the rear of the car? I'm loving the physics so far but having to drive a bit nervous is making it hard to push the limits and really test the cars properly.

To be honest I don't think you can feel much of anything in sims. Your missing 9/10ths of the car which included a seat.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Interesting discussion about camber :

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?38472-Camber-settings

So, zero camber at the rear is best with front at -1 to -2 ?

 

[ozwheels]

Interesting discussion about camber :

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/showthread.php?38472-Camber-settings

So, zero camber at the rear is best with front at -1 to -2 ?

Yep, try it out if you get bored. Rear camber kills straight line speed and increasing rear pressure to compensate for the deforming contact patch doesn't get you any of that speed back. I ran a rear GT3 tire at 2.4 bar I think it was and it didn't affect the straight line speed at all. It did however take away all grip as it was overinflated.

 

[svenvangent]

Yep, try it out if you get bored. Rear camber kills straight line speed and increasing rear pressure to compensate for the deforming contact patch doesn't get you any of that speed back. I ran a rear GT3 tire at 2.4 bar I think it was and it didn't affect the straight line speed at all. It did however take away all grip as it was overinflated.

At Spa I just did a test and set in my setup the front and back camber to zero and i went 0.500 second faster with the car in one try , the handling don't suffer under it .

 

[ozwheels]

At Spa I just did a test and set in my setup the front and back camber to zero and i went 0.500 second faster with the car in one try , the handling don't suffer under it .

I can't give out anymore advice, people might start catching up.

 

[super_gt]

I can't give out anymore advice, people might start catching up.

You should start to patent your discoveries

 

[NLxAROSA]

Interesting discussion about camber

The discussion regarding camber I started earlier in the more private parts of the forum has more or less the same conclusions after some members did some extensive testing. SMS is aware of it. Let's see if/when this leads to a fix.

 

[ozwheels]

Not sure if this is a physics question but there's knowledgable people here so I'll ask. Why does the 12C GT3 have the default ride height 10mm higher in the front than the back? I reversed the default so 55 f 65 r and it killed my straight line speed. Like 4-5 mph instantly slower. It's opposite of what I was expecting. I assume it has to do with suspension geometry but the exact answer would be nice.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Not sure if this is a physics question but there's knowledgable people here so I'll ask. Why does the 12C GT3 have the default ride height 10mm higher in the front than the back? I reversed the default so 55 f 65 r and it killed my straight line speed. Like 4-5 mph instantly slower. It's opposite of what I was expecting. I assume it has to do with suspension geometry but the exact answer would be nice.

You might be scraping the track surface, the front splitter usually attached to the chassis rails on race cars, the lower the car, the more effective the downforce it produces at speed. Try to increase front damper bump and spring rate to compensate, if it doesn't help, then it may be the car chassis model that limits the performance. The ride height in pcars is a bit unclear, is it based on ground clearance from the lowest point of body parts or from chassis in which rake could have a part of why the front is higher by default.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

The discussion regarding camber I started earlier in the more private parts of the forum has more or less the same conclusions after some members did some extensive testing. SMS is aware of it. Let's see if/when this leads to a fix.

Believe it or not, I have had someone messaging me on PSN a few months ago about Pcars exploits to get faster, bugs ( crash issues, pit, red tires, invisible wall etc ) and car setup inconsistencies, basically most of the problems from the first 2 months of release. I think I know now, what he means by exploit to get faster I met the guy online in GT6 lobby I hosted ( for testing my car ) and he requested a car to be made ( Audi TTRS in my replica garage ), haven't heard anything from him ever since.

He said Pcars would likely need a year to get things sorted out on consoles, and the "exploit" he said, will be the hardest to tackle. Didn't believe a word he said back then, but the camber issue changed that. His hints were vague, he told me to check the road cars setup, play the console version and find a trick to get faster lap times. I did managed to play on PS4 for a about 6 hours now, never thought it could be the camber

Just my curiosity, does this camber issue also happen on PC ? Anyone want to try play with tire pressure with zero or low camber, see if there's optimum range for grip and wear ?

 

[NLxAROSA]

Physics are the same on all platforms, so yes. Also take into account that the camber model is fairly complex with a lot of factors involved, so it's quite hard to actually know for sure if it's an issue with the model or just a matter of car/track/tire/tuning setup combo (as some combos do benefit IRL from running with very low or any camber). I've seen many people comment on this issue, but only a handful of them are even remotely qualified to really get to the bottom of it or can explain in detail what they think is going on. But judging from the devs answers so far: yes it's very hard to fix without upsetting the entire model, it's not a matter of simply 'raise grip level'.

 

[ozwheels]

You might be scraping the track surface, the front splitter usually attached to the chassis rails on race cars, the lower the car, the more effective the downforce it produces at speed. Try to increase front damper bump and spring rate to compensate, if it doesn't help, then it may be the car chassis model that limits the performance. The ride height in pcars is a bit unclear, is it based on ground clearance from the lowest point of body parts or from chassis in which rake could have a part of why the front is higher by default.

It is a bit odd how the ride height works on the 12C I'll have to play around a bit more and see. Another thing is that it had horrible understeer going up Eau Rouge with my reversed default ride height. I couldn't believe how bad it was then I went back to full default and it handled like a dream. It makes me wonder if all the "McLaren has horrible understeer" claims come from people making the same mistake I did and try the traditional make the rear higher than the front setup.

I would assume ride height is measured from pinch welds or another flat/solid chassis point. But it is an interesting theory if it is measured from body parts because the new BMW TC has a higher front ride height also. And I'm sure your aware negative rake on a race car doesn't have any good benefits. Which makes me think those 2 cars have some trick suspension geometry.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Found very interesting video on Pcars RUF Yellowbird on PS4, this video is made by @JohnScoonsBeard . Watch from beginning to end to see how much details of interior has been modeled If you know where the boost valve is, it's not modeled at all, which is surprising Part of the interest is the front trunk ( fuel tank, strut tower bar etc vs real car ), the roll cage and the rear body of the car.



Some pics of the MNP 911 CTR :

And, a green CTR similar to the color in the video

 

[danbojte]

Watch from beginning to end to see

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

View attachment 443710

Fixed now, missed the last letter on the link Thanks

 

[JohnScoonsBeard]

Found very interesting video on Pcars RUF Yellowbird on PS4, this video is made by @JohnScoonsBeard . Watch from beginning to end to see how much details of interior has been modeled If you know where the boost valve is, it's not modeled at all, which is surprising Part of the interest is the front trunk ( fuel tank, strut tower bar etc vs real car ), the roll cage and the rear body of the car.



Some pics of the MNP 911 CTR :

View attachment 443662

View attachment 443663

View attachment 443665


And, a green CTR similar to the color in the video

View attachment 443667

View attachment 443669

SMS have said themselves that they don't render (or make renderable) the rear of the car in cockpit view as it's wasted processing that could be used elsewhere. I was quite surprised at how much still did get rendered on the car the further I moved back. The seat position on the Yellowbird is one of those bugs/features I hope they add on all cars. It was fun driving the car when underneath it.