Physics thread

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Here's something interesting that you can try:
Take this tune put in front Masculin All Season tires,rear Masculin Street-Medium tires and enjoy lift off oversteer in mid corner and big grip under acceleration,you will only have to imagine that you are driving Porsche (This is not joke,try it)

Sort of GT6 tire mix up tune

I've been waiting to test PCars physics against a RL car. So I decided to give PCars another try today with the Old vs. New DLC pack so that I can try the Yellowbird. Since I do motorsports in 2 cars with a chassis and suspension very nearly identical to the Yellowbird, this is a chassis I know.

And there is still almost ZERO lift-off oversteer. I can do things in the YB in PCars at that I absolutely guarantee you would get you killed - things I don't even do in my RL cars at motorsports events unless I have a huge run-off area for safety, because even though I'm VERY good at lift-off oversteer in these chassis, that one little screw-up could cost me big in the wrong place.

The YB in PCars simply feels NOTHING like it should. I don't know how else to explain it. The balance is all wrong. It refuses to oversteer off-throttle but has a very classic "light-rear-end" FR-style oversteer when you get on throttle too much. I feel nothing of the nimble front-end, nor of the massive rear-grip these cars possess IRL. Honestly, it reminds me a LOT of the crappy physics in GT5 & 6 (in which RR cars or more-or-less completely borked). I'm not a fanboy of any product, period, and even though I like a LOT of things about PCars, it's incredibly disappointing to find out that their simulated physics don't match real-life in this case at all. It's just as wrong as wrong can be.

Very, very disappointed.

(If you want to feel what a real Porsche of that chassis type feels like, try AC, which models it brilliantly, or go clear back to GT4, which actually does a very good job of it also.)

And while I didn't post this on the PCars board, I can post it here: As far as I can now tell, PCars physics are crap, like GT5 and GT6. They've done a very good job of talking the talk and adding some great weather effects and gameplay, but if they can't get something as fundamental and basic as rear-engine physics correct then they either don't know what they are doing or don't have a physics engine capable of doing what it should be doing. Either way, it's a crushing disappointment.

Go play AC, it's got the physics down so good it's scary. (Now all they have to do is wrap a better game around their fantastic physics and FFB.)

I think this might have to do with Pcars Yellowbird stock setup being on the safe side Have you ever tried my Yellowbird on GT6 ? It's not as good as AC YB, but the replica tune was the best I could do on GT6, there's a video comparison vs AC YB as well at Spa.


Just saw the default setup for YB in Pcars, the spring rate are wow 87Nmm front and 105Nmm rear, those are a lot more than the typical 930 track setup with lightweight chassis ( PCars YB might uses coilover conversion setup for stock set ). LSD should be 80% as on MNP 911 car ( from Sport Auto 1988 test ), customer YB base offering was 60%. Wastegate pressure stock YB pcars at 2.2 Bar with minimum at 1.75 Bar ( a real stock YB at this boost level will blow up the engine ), the real YB stock boost pressure is 1.1Bar, max at 1.4Bar ( adjustable ), 1.35Bar yield 524PS. Tire pressure seems high as well, going to build a blind tune

 

[killerjimbag]

Sort of GT6 tire mix up tune



I think this might have to do with Pcars Yellowbird stock setup being on the safe side Have you ever tried my Yellowbird on GT6 ? It's not as good as AC YB, but the replica tune was the best I could do on GT6, there's a video comparison vs AC YB as well at Spa.


Just saw the default setup for YB in Pcars, the spring rate are wow 87Nmm front and 105Nmm rear, those are a lot more than the typical 930 track setup with lightweight chassis ( PCars YB might uses coilover conversion setup for stock set ). LSD should be 80% as on MNP 911 car ( from Sport Auto 1988 test ), customer YB base offering was 60%. Wastegate pressure stock YB pcars at 2.2 Bar with minimum at 1.75 Bar ( a real stock YB at this boost level will blow up the engine ), the real YB stock boost pressure is 1.1Bar, max at 1.4Bar ( adjustable ), 1.35Bar yield 524PS. Tire pressure seems high as well, going to build a blind tune

That's why I turned the wastegate down.If you would like to send me the specs for the YellowBird I would be glad to input them. A blind tune? Really?

 

[panjandrum]

I remember you bringing up lift off oversteer months ago and everyone said they felt it except you. It seems like something on your end is wrong weather than the game. Even 50/50 cars in this game can be made to have ridiculous lift off oversteer. I genuinely don't know where your coming from here. Maybe you can record your gameplay and post it.

Hmm. I don't really know what *could* be wrong. Everything works, 100% in every single racing game or sim that I play. Could there be a bug of some sort? I suppose so, but one would expect that then everything else would also NOT work, and that's not the case. There is almost no chance, at this point, that this isn't an underlying physics issue. I've played enough games and sims to recognize when one simply isn't modeling something well. For example, as old as GT4 is, it models weight distribution and weight-transfer amazingly well. So does AC. The Dirt games? Not much going on there (drive the Alpine or Lancia stratos in those and it's not much different from anything else in terms of the weight distribution feeling). I spent way, way too much time of other flawed sims (GT5, GT6, for example) trying to get these cars to feel remotely like they should (different platform, I'm running Pcars on Windows) to bother wasting much time with it, especially when there are other products that simply get it right out of the box.

I'll stick to driving cars where I have no RL experience in PCars, so that the differences don't frustrate me. (True story: The RR physics in GT5 & 6, for example, are so bad that the actually started interfering with my RL skills due to the whole muscle-memory effect. I had to stop driving any RR or MR car in those games in order to get back in form for RL racing. PCars feels, very, very, almost eerily similar to GT5 and GT6 in terms of RR physics. Just downright, fundamentally, and utterly wrong. If I had to *guess*, PCars is not modeling weight-transfer well.)

Sort of GT6 tire mix up tune



I think this might have to do with Pcars Yellowbird stock setup being on the safe side Have you ever tried my Yellowbird on GT6 ? It's not as good as AC YB, but the replica tune was the best I could do on GT6, there's a video comparison vs AC YB as well at Spa.


Just saw the default setup for YB in Pcars, the spring rate are wow 87Nmm front and 105Nmm rear, those are a lot more than the typical 930 track setup with lightweight chassis ( PCars YB might uses coilover conversion setup for stock set ). LSD should be 80% as on MNP 911 car ( from Sport Auto 1988 test ), customer YB base offering was 60%. Wastegate pressure stock YB pcars at 2.2 Bar with minimum at 1.75 Bar ( a real stock YB at this boost level will blow up the engine ), the real YB stock boost pressure is 1.1Bar, max at 1.4Bar ( adjustable ), 1.35Bar yield 524PS. Tire pressure seems high as well, going to build a blind tune

I'll wait to see if the Jack Spades FFB settings make any difference first; they haven't been updated yet for the latest DLC.

It frustrates the heck out of me that I might have to waste time trying to "fix" a default presentation in what is supposed to be a SIM. And to be honest, my impression at this point is that, like GT5/6 it may be a fundamentally unfixable flaw in the physics engine anyway. I really don't feel like wasting time trying to fix something that should be correct out of the box (or, it should be marketed as a racing game, not a racing sim).

These guys should team-up with the developers of AC, take the AC physics engine and FFB, and then wrap an excellent game around it (like PCars is, for the most part).

I think those of you playing on consoles are going to have a VERY fun time when AC comes out for consoles. You'll get into the YB, try to drive it like you can in PCars (or GT5/6), immediately spin-out, and then begin to understand what I'm trying to get at...

 

[killerjimbag]

Hmm. I don't really know what *could* be wrong. Everything works, 100% in every single racing game or sim that I play. Could there be a bug of some sort? I suppose so, but one would expect that then everything else would also NOT work, and that's not the case. There is almost no chance, at this point, that this isn't an underlying physics issue. I've played enough games and sims to recognize when one simply isn't modeling something well. For example, as old as GT4 is, it models weight distribution and weight-transfer amazingly well. So does AC. The Dirt games? Not much going on there (drive the Alpine or Lancia stratos in those and it's not much different from anything else in terms of the weight distribution feeling). I spent way, way too much time of other flawed sims (GT5, GT6, for example) trying to get these cars to feel remotely like they should (different platform, I'm running Pcars on Windows) to bother wasting much time with it, especially when there are other products that simply get it right out of the box.

I'll stick to driving cars where I have no RL experience in PCars, so that the differences don't frustrate me. (True story: The RR physics in GT5 & 6, for example, are so bad that the actually started interfering with my RL skills due to the whole muscle-memory effect. I had to stop driving any RR or MR car in those games in order to get back in form for RL racing. PCars feels, very, very, almost eerily similar to GT5 and GT6 in terms of RR physics. Just downright, fundamentally, and utterly wrong. If I had to *guess*, PCars is not modeling weight-transfer well.)

OK so let me get this correct,I'm assuming you drive a Porche. Are you a professional driver or do you own the car? I'm pretty sure a video game is not close to"real life". Since you seem to have valuable real world experience, maybe you should contact SMS and help fix the game. For $60 bucks, well it ain't that bad. Myself I just jump in my 65 and enjoy reality. Cause it ain't real unless it's real! Oh by the way,having driven a 66 Mustang in real life,yeah its damn close.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

That's why I turned the wastegate down.If you would like to send me the specs for the YellowBird I would be glad to input them. A blind tune? Really?

All of my Pcars setup on database are blind tune, @super_gt has been tester on most of them, and they are fine according to feedback I have received.

Even at minimum wastegate pressure of 1.75 Bar, it's still way higher than max possible in real at 1.4 Bar. The stock spring in Pcars would be race/track car setup in real life, typical at 400/600 lb/in for Porsche 930 with around 2500lb weight ( RUF CTR weighs 1222kg ) and coilover conversion.

I am currently making a setup for YB on Pcars setup database, I can see the default setup

 

[killerjimbag]

All of my Pcars setup on database are blind tune, @super_gt has been tester on most of them, and they are fine according to feedback I have received.

Even at minimum wastegate pressure of 1.75 Bar, it's still way higher than max possible in real at 1.4 Bar. The stock spring in Pcars would be race/track car setup in real life, typical at 400/600 lb/in for Porsche 930 with around 2500lb weight ( RUF CTR weighs 1222kg )

I am currently making a setup for YB on Pcars setup database, I can see the default setup

So a guy that wants to sell his game is your tester. LOL OK.

 

[ozwheels]

Hmm. I don't really know what *could* be wrong. Everything works, 100% in every single racing game or sim that I play. Could there be a bug of some sort? I suppose so, but one would expect that then everything else would also NOT work, and that's not the case. There is almost no chance, at this point, that this isn't an underlying physics issue. I've played enough games and sims to recognize when one simply isn't modeling something well. For example, as old as GT4 is, it models weight distribution and weight-transfer amazingly well. So does AC. The Dirt games? Not much going on there (drive the Alpine or Lancia stratos in those and it's not much different from anything else in terms of the weight distribution feeling). I spent way, way too much time of other flawed sims (GT5, GT6, for example) trying to get these cars to feel remotely like they should (different platform, I'm running Pcars on Windows) to bother wasting much time with it, especially when there are other products that simply get it right out of the box.

I'll stick to driving cars where I have no RL experience in PCars, so that the differences don't frustrate me. (True story: The RR physics in GT5 & 6, for example, are so bad that the actually started interfering with my RL skills due to the whole muscle-memory effect. I had to stop driving any RR or MR car in those games in order to get back in form for RL racing. PCars feels, very, very, almost eerily similar to GT5 and GT6 in terms of RR physics. Just downright, fundamentally, and utterly wrong. If I had to *guess*, PCars is not modeling weight-transfer well.)



I'll wait to see if the Jack Spades FFB settings make any difference first; they haven't been updated yet for the latest DLC.

It frustrates the heck out of me that I might have to waste time trying to "fix" a default presentation in what is supposed to be a SIM. And to be honest, my impression at this point is that, like GT5/6 it may be a fundamentally unfixable flaw in the physics engine anyway. I really don't feel like wasting time trying to fix something that should be correct out of the box (or, it should be marketed as a racing game, not a racing sim).

These guys should team-up with the developers of AC, take the AC physics engine and FFB, and then wrap an excellent game around it (like PCars is, for the most part).

I think those of you playing on consoles are going to have a VERY fun time when AC comes out for consoles. You'll get into the YB, try to drive it like you can in PCars (or GT5/6), immediately spin-out, and then begin to understand what I'm trying to get at...

I don't know man. Is it possible to post your gameplay?

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

So a guy that wants to sell his game is your tester. LOL OK.

Yep, he did the testing quite a while ago, June/July, that's when he told me about his finding of camber and steering ratio. You are welcome to try my setup if you are interested, there's one linked on my sig for E30 M3 Gr A I simply used real world values ( as close as possible ) on my setups, see if they work well on Pcars.

He is selling Pcars because he is not happy with the state of the game.

I'm making a YB tune on Pcars setup database now, used the lowest spring rate ( coincidentally the same as my YB GT6 replica springs 50/70 Nmm ), which used in real for Nordchsleife setup on 930 track build with coilover conversion ( my reference )

 

[killerjimbag]

Yep, he did the testing quite a while ago, June/July, that's when he told me about his finding of camber and steering ratio. You are welcome to try my setup if you are interested, there's one linked on my sig for E30 M3 Gr A I simply used real world values ( as close as possible ) on my setups, see if they work well on Pcars.

He is selling Pcars because he is not happy with the state of the game.

I'm making a YB tune on Pcars setup database now, used the lowest spring rate ( coincidentally the same as my YB GT6 replica springs 50/70 Nmm ), which used in real for Nordchsleife setup on 930 track build with coilover conversion ( my reference )

Well I'll send you my tune,that handles like a well a Yellowbird. It underdteers, oversteers,but with a wheel and proper technic,it is a blast to drive. Everyone wants real world specs, its not going to happen as there is different data and specs for cars. My 65 Impala is not even close to its original specs as it was a pig to drive. Can't even imagine putting a family in that back in the day. But oh well. Drives great now with updated suspension,radial tires etc. These are video games,not simulators.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Well I'll send you my tune,that handles like a well a Yellowbird. It underdteers, oversteers,but with a wheel and proper technic,it is a blast to drive. Everyone wants real world specs, its not going to happen as there is different data and specs for cars. My 65 Impala is not even close to its original specs as it was a pig to drive. Can't even imagine putting a family in that back in the day. But oh well. Drives great now with updated suspension,radial tires etc. These are video games,not simulators.

If you are happy with it, good for you mate My user name on pcars setup database is GTP , the YB setup will be raw and wild, maybe you can give a test drive later on and see if it sucks or might be able to get close to yous

Can't get rear tire pressure on Pcars, max at 2.8 Bar even stock 930 tire pressure as on manual/sticker are at 43/44 Psi rear

 

[killerjimbag]

If you are happy with it, good for you mate My user name on pcars setup database is GTP , the YB setup will be raw and wild, maybe you can give a test drive later on and see if it sucks or might be able to get close to yous

Can't get rear tire pressure on Pcars, max at 2.8 Bar even stock 930 tire pressure as on manual/sticker are at 43/44 Psi rear

Yes I know about the restrictions and omissions in the game. That's why I told you on your thread I had to turn down wastegate. At the end of the day,the game has a great feel. No racing game/sim/simcade is perfect.
Drive Club was a mess,GT5/GT6 blah blah. It's a good "game"

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Yes I know about the restrictions and omissions in the game. That's why I told you on your thread I had to turn down wastegate. At the end of the day,the game has a great feel. No racing game/sim/simcade is perfect.
Drive Club was a mess,GT5/GT6 blah blah. It's a good "game"

All game needs improvement

Just read Casey Ringley reply about the Ruf boost, he thought CTR had fixed boost, also said the YB in Pcars boost is set at 1.2 Bar RUF CTR had boost controller kit.

http://forum.projectcarsgame.com/sh...f-Old-vs-New&p=1100061&viewfull=1#post1100061

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Hmm. I don't really know what *could* be wrong. Everything works, 100% in every single racing game or sim that I play. Could there be a bug of some sort? I suppose so, but one would expect that then everything else would also NOT work, and that's not the case. There is almost no chance, at this point, that this isn't an underlying physics issue. I've played enough games and sims to recognize when one simply isn't modeling something well. For example, as old as GT4 is, it models weight distribution and weight-transfer amazingly well. So does AC. The Dirt games? Not much going on there (drive the Alpine or Lancia stratos in those and it's not much different from anything else in terms of the weight distribution feeling). I spent way, way too much time of other flawed sims (GT5, GT6, for example) trying to get these cars to feel remotely like they should (different platform, I'm running Pcars on Windows) to bother wasting much time with it, especially when there are other products that simply get it right out of the box.

I'll stick to driving cars where I have no RL experience in PCars, so that the differences don't frustrate me. (True story: The RR physics in GT5 & 6, for example, are so bad that the actually started interfering with my RL skills due to the whole muscle-memory effect. I had to stop driving any RR or MR car in those games in order to get back in form for RL racing. PCars feels, very, very, almost eerily similar to GT5 and GT6 in terms of RR physics. Just downright, fundamentally, and utterly wrong. If I had to *guess*, PCars is not modeling weight-transfer well.)



I'll wait to see if the Jack Spades FFB settings make any difference first; they haven't been updated yet for the latest DLC.

It frustrates the heck out of me that I might have to waste time trying to "fix" a default presentation in what is supposed to be a SIM. And to be honest, my impression at this point is that, like GT5/6 it may be a fundamentally unfixable flaw in the physics engine anyway. I really don't feel like wasting time trying to fix something that should be correct out of the box (or, it should be marketed as a racing game, not a racing sim).

These guys should team-up with the developers of AC, take the AC physics engine and FFB, and then wrap an excellent game around it (like PCars is, for the most part).

I think those of you playing on consoles are going to have a VERY fun time when AC comes out for consoles. You'll get into the YB, try to drive it like you can in PCars (or GT5/6), immediately spin-out, and then begin to understand what I'm trying to get at...

I made 2 new tunes on Pcars database, RUF CTR and BMW 2002 Turbo, both are in need of testing and feedback

http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/54171755 -- BMW 2002 Turbo

http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/61513921 - RUF CTR Yellowbird - Denloc D40 tires.

The CTR is on lowest wastegate pressure, increase it if needed. Alternative tire pressure for Yellowbird F 2.0 Bar R 1.9 Bar ( cold ) - might work well on Denloc, but should be better suited on higher grip tires ( semi slick Masculin track soft )

 

[super_gt]

So a guy that wants to sell his game is your tester. LOL OK.

Selling of the game and driving skills are two completely different things

 

[svenvangent]

I made 2 new tunes on Pcars database, RUF CTR and BMW 2002 Turbo, both are in need of testing and feedback

http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/54171755 -- BMW 2002 Turbo

http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/61513921 - RUF CTR Yellowbird - Denloc D40 tires.

The CTR is on lowest wastegate pressure, increase it if needed. Alternative tire pressure for Yellowbird F 2.0 Bar R 1.9 Bar ( cold ) - might work well on Denloc, but should be better suited on higher grip tires ( semi slick Masculin track soft )

Ridox2JZGTE , gonna give your RUF CTR Yellowbird a go with the Denloc D40 tyres thanks , hope it is spot on .
Will be testing on Brands Hats circuit .

 

[GordonS]

Hmm. I don't really know what *could* be wrong. Everything works, 100% in every single racing game or sim that I play. Could there be a bug of some sort? I suppose so, but one would expect that then everything else would also NOT work, and that's not the case. There is almost no chance, at this point, that this isn't an underlying physics issue. I've played enough games and sims to recognize when one simply isn't modeling something well. For example, as old as GT4 is, it models weight distribution and weight-transfer amazingly well. So does AC. The Dirt games? Not much going on there (drive the Alpine or Lancia stratos in those and it's not much different from anything else in terms of the weight distribution feeling). I spent way, way too much time of other flawed sims (GT5, GT6, for example) trying to get these cars to feel remotely like they should (different platform, I'm running Pcars on Windows) to bother wasting much time with it, especially when there are other products that simply get it right out of the box.

I'll stick to driving cars where I have no RL experience in PCars, so that the differences don't frustrate me. (True story: The RR physics in GT5 & 6, for example, are so bad that the actually started interfering with my RL skills due to the whole muscle-memory effect. I had to stop driving any RR or MR car in those games in order to get back in form for RL racing. PCars feels, very, very, almost eerily similar to GT5 and GT6 in terms of RR physics. Just downright, fundamentally, and utterly wrong. If I had to *guess*, PCars is not modeling weight-transfer well.)



I'll wait to see if the Jack Spades FFB settings make any difference first; they haven't been updated yet for the latest DLC.

It frustrates the heck out of me that I might have to waste time trying to "fix" a default presentation in what is supposed to be a SIM. And to be honest, my impression at this point is that, like GT5/6 it may be a fundamentally unfixable flaw in the physics engine anyway. I really don't feel like wasting time trying to fix something that should be correct out of the box (or, it should be marketed as a racing game, not a racing sim).

These guys should team-up with the developers of AC, take the AC physics engine and FFB, and then wrap an excellent game around it (like PCars is, for the most part).

I think those of you playing on consoles are going to have a VERY fun time when AC comes out for consoles. You'll get into the YB, try to drive it like you can in PCars (or GT5/6), immediately spin-out, and then begin to understand what I'm trying to get at...

Hi panjandrum!
Here is my video starting from 2:30. At 2:33 starts one example of the off throttle oversteer - after a little brake pedal input.


I cannot say anything about real life 911's or RUF's but the Pcars Yellowbird equipped with cold street tyres is far from predictable or easy when you hop in the first time. It just wants to slide on/off throttle.
I also don't know how the pre-heated stickier tyres behave for example at time trial. Maybe they are more forgiving at off throttle?
I also believe that Jack Spade's settings have no effect in off throttle physics.
Make sure to check your TCS/ASM/tyre compund.. That's all I can say now.
.. I'm going to test the stickier rubber tonight.

 

[super_gt]

So to avoid more misunderstanding here is what @panjandrum means:
I do not have Yellowbird this is why I used RGT-8

On the pictures you will see the settings that I have changed.
All other settings are stock.
Pay special attention what tires I use!
Feel free to adjust your brake pressure.
Everyone is welcome to test this set up and have some fun

 

[killerjimbag]

So to avoid more misunderstanding here is what @panjandrum means:
I do not have Yellowbird this why I used RGT-8

View attachment 439114 View attachment 439115 View attachment 439116 View attachment 439117

On the pictures you will see the settings that I have changed.
All other settings are stock.
Pay special attention what tires I use!
Feel free to adjust your brake pressure.

No,what he was talking about was clearly the Yellowbird.

 

[super_gt]

No,what he was talking about was clearly the Yellowbird.

Here's what he said

It refuses to oversteer off-throttle but has a very classic "light-rear-end" FR-style oversteer when you get on throttle too much. I feel nothing of the nimble front-end, nor of the massive rear-grip these cars possess IRL.

My set up has oversteer off-throttle and big grip on throttle,and everybody can set up Yellowbird in the way I set up RGT-8.

 

[killerjimbag]

Here's what he said

My set up has oversteer off-throttle and big grip on throttle,and everybody can set up Yellowbird in the way I set up RGT-8.

Uhm,2 different cars.

 

[Telstar]

^ panjandrum was talking about RR cars in general, wasn't he?

I'm getting the best results with the Yiro slick on the Formula B with camber. Is it the only tire in the game like that? Perhaps.

I did some testing on this. I'd say the times with and without camber are pretty much on par. Every time I went to the pits to change the camber settings, I set a new fastest lap. Eventually I got tired of constantly switching between no camber and stock camber and doing another few laps to see what has changed, so I stopped at one point. That's why I can't provide comparable lap times at the moment.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

^ panjandrum was talking about RR cars in general, wasn't he?



I did some testing on this. I'd say the times with and without camber are pretty much on par. Every time I went to the pits to change the camber settings, I set a new fastest lap. Eventually I got tired of constantly switching between no camber and stock camber and doing another few laps to see what has changed, so I stopped at one point. That's why I can't provide comparable lap times at the moment.

Is there any gain in performance ( cornering and lap time ) when using camber ? I sense that zero camber and camber makes no difference from what you wrote. It would be interesting if you can test road cars like FQ400, 1M, Yellowbird, Mclaren F1 on hardest compound tire, camber and zero camber, see if they are also affected.

 

[Telstar]

Is there any gain in performance ( cornering and lap time ) when using camber ? I sense that zero camber and camber makes no difference from what you wrote. It would be interesting if you can test road cars like FQ400, 1M, Yellowbird, Mclaren F1 on hardest compound tire, camber and zero camber, see if they are also affected.

I haven't focused on cornering speed yet but straight line speed is higher while using no camber at all. However, it seemed to me that there is less lateral support during corners when using no camber. I tended to lose the car on more occasions because of oversteer.

 

[Shahar]

GordonS It looks like you are driving a hovercraft. I just compared it to real footage and it seem to slide too much.
But maybe it's just the tires or the fact that in real life people try to correct a slide as fast as they can.

 

[OooAhh Cantona]

I made 2 new tunes on Pcars database, RUF CTR and BMW 2002 Turbo, both are in need of testing and feedback

http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/54171755 -- BMW 2002 Turbo

http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/61513921 - RUF CTR Yellowbird - Denloc D40 tires.

The CTR is on lowest wastegate pressure, increase it if needed. Alternative tire pressure for Yellowbird F 2.0 Bar R 1.9 Bar ( cold ) - might work well on Denloc, but should be better suited on higher grip tires ( semi slick Masculin track soft )

Thanks for sharing, Ridox. I know this is Yellowbird OEM setup, but it's too tail happy for me. DS4 on PS4. Your setup does provide more stability than default setup. So I tweaked your setup to my liking. Was able to get a setup to tame the slide. However, I consistently get a mechanical failure warning after 7-8 laps (on Brands Hatch, solo practice). I'm assuming it's brake failure as I notice drop in braking ability and see front brakes heat up to 1300-1400 F degrees. Unfortunately the Yellowbird setup doesn't allow brake duct adjustment. Any thoughts? (I set brake pressure to 84% vs your 70% because 70% required longer brake zone than to my liking.)

This Yellowbird is definitely a track day car for me. I'm already on edge going around an empty track. Can't imagine racing against others.

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I haven't focused on cornering speed yet but straight line speed is higher while using no camber at all. However, it seemed to me that there is less lateral support during corners when using no camber. I tended to lose the car on more occasions because of oversteer.

Try this, add camber at the rear on RWD car, but leave the front at zero That should alleviate the oversteer a bit.

Thanks for sharing, Ridox. I know this is Yellowbird OEM setup, but it's too tail happy for me. DS4 on PS4. Your setup does provide more stability than default setup. So I tweaked your setup to my liking. Was able to get a setup to tame the slide. However, I consistently get a mechanical failure warning after 7-8 laps (on Brands Hatch, solo practice). I'm assuming it's brake failure as I notice drop in braking ability and see front brakes heat up to 1300-1400 F degrees. Unfortunately the Yellowbird setup doesn't allow brake duct adjustment. Any thoughts? (I set brake pressure to 84% vs your 70% because 70% required longer brake zone than to my liking.)

This Yellowbird is definitely a track day car for me. I'm already on edge going around an empty track. Can't imagine racing against others.

Brake overheat ? Sounds like brake fade too, I guess you are pushing the car on the edge all the time

Could you tell me what you changed to tame to your liking ? For brake failure, suggest to reduce the brake force by 3-5% and give it a go again, see if you can run more laps. How does the 62% brake bias works ? It uses real life 930 Porsche factory bias.

Tire pressure, did you use rear 2.8 Bar ? In real life, higher rear is suited best for high speed like in Autobahn, the rear 3.0 Bar is for EU Porsche 930 ( manual and sticker ), US Porsche 930 had it lower at 2.5 Bar to suit the demographic driving speeds. Excessive wear can be had with lower pressure at the rear tire due to the rear weight bias of the engine location, see if this works on Pcars, use 1.9 - 2 Bar rear tire pressure, and notice how it heats up and eat up tires.

 

[GordonS]

GordonS It looks like you are driving a hovercraft. I just compared it to read footage and it seem to slide too much.
But maybe it's just the tires or the fact that in real life people try to correct a slide as fast as they can.

Well, I guess you can say so. I'm not a drifter so all the sliding was generated naturally, without any complicated techniques (of course, because I can't do those).

BUT. Not nice news.. I've done some testing: rain + the Yellowbird. AND it seems now that Panjandrum is right (which isn't bad news ).

In rain I get no "pendulum effect" with sudden off throttle with steering input in fast corners at Monza. I tried also with BMW 1-Series Coupe. The same result: the rear end doesn't come around.
ONLY when you jerk the steering wheel more suddenly the pendulum effect happens, like in my video above.

Sorry for the confusion mr. Panjandrum. You are on the right track. Something must be off in Pcars physics. With my abilities I could not find that in my sweaty Nordschleife lap. Nevertheless, I enjoyed it immensely.

 

[OooAhh Cantona]

Brake overheat ? Sounds like brake fade too, I guess you are pushing the car on the edge all the time

Could you tell me what you changed to tame to your liking ? For brake failure, suggest to reduce the brake force by 3-5% and give it a go again, see if you can run more laps. How does the 62% brake bias works ? It uses real life 930 Porsche factory bias.

Tire pressure, did you use rear 2.8 Bar ? In real life, higher rear is suited best for high speed like in Autobahn, the rear 3.0 Bar is for EU Porsche 930 ( manual and sticker ), US Porsche 930 had it lower at 2.5 Bar to suit the demographic driving speeds. Excessive wear can be had with lower pressure at the rear tire due to the rear weight bias of the engine location, see if this works on Pcars, use 1.9 - 2 Bar rear tire pressure, and notice how it heats up and eat up tires.

I use a controller. I push every car on the edge all the time since GT1 days.

(I'm not professional/semi-pro driver or avid virtual sim racer. I just go by feel.) RE: 62% brake bias. The first thing I tested was your LSD and brake setup. Noticed improvement from in-game default. So I proceeded to test your full CTR setup. The car was not as planted as I want, so I changed tire pressures back to default pressures. Better. Then went about making personal adjustments. Here is my setup (only listing the changes I made to your OEM tune). Tail slide has not been removed, but much more controllable for me.

Masculin Street Medium tires (game's tire choice if I set to Automatic by Weather in clear weather)
FL 1.90, FR 1.84
RL 2.06, RR 2.00
(Asymmetrical pressure to balance tire temps as much as possible on Brands Hatch... and tire wear.)

Brake Pressure 84%
TCS 1% (This was my final adjustment. Game changer for me. Huge improvement in stability.)

Caster 6.0, 6.0 (returned to default)
FL Camber -1.1, FR Camber -1.1
Front Toe 0.0, Rear Toe 0.4

Rear Ride Height 138mm, 138mm
Front Sway 35N/mm

Slip Dec Lock 48%
Wastegate 2.15

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

I use a controller. I push every car on the edge all the time since GT1 days.

(I'm not professional/semi-pro driver or avid virtual sim racer. I just go by feel.) RE: 62% brake bias. The first thing I tested was your LSD and brake setup. Noticed improvement from in-game default. So I proceeded to test your full CTR setup. The car was not as planted as I want, so I changed tire pressures back to default pressures. Better. Then went about making personal adjustments. Here is my setup (only listing the changes I made to your OEM tune). Tail slide has not been removed, but much more controllable for me.

Masculin Street Medium tires (game's tire choice if I set to Automatic by Weather in clear weather)
FL 1.90, FR 1.84
RL 2.06, RR 2.00
(Asymmetrical pressure to balance tire temps as much as possible on Brands Hatch... and tire wear.)

Brake Pressure 84%
TCS 1% (This was my final adjustment. Game changer for me. Huge improvement in stability.)

Caster 6.0, 6.0 (returned to default)
FL Camber -1.1, FR Camber -1-1
Front Toe 0.0, Rear Toe 0.4

Rear Ride Height 138mm, 138mm
Front Sway 35N/mm

Slip Dec Lock 48%
Wastegate 2.15

Thanks for the feedback Regarding tire pressure, it's odd that in pcars, the rear tire pressure needs to be lower to improve tire wear. The 930 Porsche rear weight bias with low tire pressure tend to wear out faster due to under inflation , hence factory manual and sticker set the pressure to 2.5 - 3.0 Bar with front at 2.0 Bar. It's most probably just the tire model used Have you tried your setup on Denloc tire ? See if rear 2.8 bar works on the Denloc.

For caster, 930 caster range can be from 3-6 degrees, track setup often goes up to 7 degrees, I will update the caster. 5.5 degrees also has been used pretty well.

The front sway increase to 35Nmm, did it add more understeer ? and with wastegate at 2.15, did the YB increased in power output ? Wastegate pressure affect how much boost allowed before opening/vent to atmosphere ( effectively a boost limiter )

TCS at 1%, did you use traction control ? I never really played with the TCS value

 

[VincentVegaSWE]

I made 2 new tunes on Pcars database, RUF CTR and BMW 2002 Turbo, both are in need of testing and feedback

http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/54171755 -- BMW 2002 Turbo

http://projectcarssetups.eu/#/viewsetup/61513921 - RUF CTR Yellowbird - Denloc D40 tires.

The CTR is on lowest wastegate pressure, increase it if needed. Alternative tire pressure for Yellowbird F 2.0 Bar R 1.9 Bar ( cold ) - might work well on Denloc, but should be better suited on higher grip tires ( semi slick Masculin track soft )

Just tried your tune for the RUF a few laps around Nordschleife and it was an absolute dream to drive. The car felt more alive and more communicative than with the original tune. Easier to drive, but not less entertaining.