PlayStation 5 Rumors Latest: Console Reveal Within the Next Six Weeks

[zzz_pt]

Just to put into perspective why Sony shouldn't have marketed this event on social media like they did without clarifying it was a tech demo for GDC.

GDC's YouTube channel, to which I've been subscribed for 3 or 4 years, has been online since 2015 and has a total of 35 million views spread through hundreds of videos.

Most watched videos have around 800. 000 views.

Sony's deep dive reached almost 9.000.000 views in 24h. Most of those views were common fans and people who couldn't card less about a hardware architecture, numbers and graphs.

It was such a stupid marketing move to tweet about it. Sony could just send the talk to devs around the world (the ones who still don't have a PS5 dev kit) and make it a low key announcement. Maybe release an article and include the video in it.

 

[Jtheripper]

I don't know where AMD sourced the RT unit from. It wouldn't be beyond them to make their own, but they've some catching up to do on the software side of things (Vulkan?).

Didn't know that about the audio processor, but that makes sense because it's DSP - i.e. data streams. Lots of cool GPGPU audio going on in the wild already for this very reason.

Spoiler

Here's some pictures from a thorough breakdown of nVidia's Turing arch:
https://devblogs.nvidia.com/nvidia-turing-architecture-in-depth/

Spoiler

https://devblogs.nvidia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/image15.jpg

https://devblogs.nvidia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/image19.jpg

https://devblogs.nvidia.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/image20-1.jpg

Also:
LINK

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bounding_volume_hierarchy

That's not to say that AMD is doing the same thing, but it gives you an idea of how it needs to be handled differently, at least.

I'm sure enterprising developers will be able to use the RT core for whatever they want (e.g. physics, visibility, audio - assuming the API is open enough), and likewise GPGPU is definitely a thing now, so there's no reason you couldn't use the GPU for non-graphics things. Whether it's worth the effort is dependent on the individual project.

I see thanks.
Yeah i wish they did include a dedicated physics processor also. Probably be 10 to 100 times more efficient too than a regular processor.

 

[RaceFuchs]

Just to put into perspective why Sony shouldn't have marketed this event on social media like they did without clarifying it was a tech demo for GDC.

Yes, people expected something different but is this Sonys fault? I dont think so. Sony said this was gonna be a tech deep dive and thats exactly what we got. Its not Sonys fault some gaming sites or Twitter users hyped this like a true console reveal.

Sony just wanted to steal some of Xboxs spotlight after they revealed their full specs. I think this worked out rather well for them.

 

[AlanH49]

Gamers have never had the best handle on technology. Particularly a highly customised system like PS5.
https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1240711942945361920?s=21

 

[Daz555]

10.3 is a peak performance with downclocked CPU. Actual performance will be lower, around 9-9.5.

That's a good point but PS5 might well not suffer as much from a somewhat down-clocked CPU (to maximize GPU when needed) given it has custom silicon for 3D audio, storage decompression and storage I/O - maybe as much as a whole cores worth of grunt - but we will have to wait and see what the devs make of all this.

I can't wait to see the early Series X and PS5 games. They are going to be stunning.

 

[Terronium-12]

You know what I find funny? Maybe this is just me placing too much of an emphasis on certain trends, or I'm just being an a-hole, but it's hilarious (to me) that now it's confirmed the PS5 is comparatively weaker than the Xbox Series X....specs don't matter all of a sudden? You can't place too high of an emphasis TFLOPs, it's how the developers use the power given to them, etc.

Was anyone saying these things when the PS4 had the better specs than the Xbox One?

 

[Daz555]

Was anyone saying these things when the PS4 had the better specs than the Xbox One?

Of course not - but the One and the PS4 were really identical bar a relatively small difference in raw performance. Series X and PS5 are far more different in terms of design principles than anyone had imagined a few weeks ago.

Next gen will be more interesting as a result - hopefully both will be successful. Customers benefit from competition.

 

[Made Adhitya]

I think both consoles are great what matters is what games we could play on those console

 

[ArR29]

Considering Sony hyped up the spec reveal and knew hundreds of thousands of gamers would be watching, they should have shown some short tech demo comparisons or something, even that old leaked Spider-Man comparison would have sufficed and was super interesting. With the custom silicon they've designed to eliminate bottlenecks for the SSD the theoretically 8-9gb/s speed achieved is insane and frees up a ton of asset resources previously needed to be managed in ram, but that's hard to visualize how large of an effect it will have in rendering on-screen object detail, game design, etc. if you're not a developer. The talk mostly just came across as instant boot up and load time advantages.

This was originally intended for their Game Developer Conference presentation to a bunch of technically-minded folks, who are all excited by the design. But most of the tech talk went over most viewers' heads as to what the design decisions mean and its advantages. Pretty poor marketing from Sony here, especially when we look at the specs sheets and the ps5 is weaker than the Series X in everything but the SSD, and that's pretty much the talk all over social media regarding this reveal. Also there's currently 80k dislikes in that youtube video.


Here's a dev commenting on PS5 specs: https://www.resetera.com/threads/pl...cret-agent-cerny.175780/page-96#post-30024731

"What John is saying sounds pretty right to me! I don't want to down play GPU power, but I promise everybody that you will be absolutely blown away by visuals on both consoles. However, the SSDs are the big difference when coming into this gen. We're not talking about "load times" in the classic sense. That's an antiquated way of thinking about data coming from your hard drive. For the last 10+ years we've been streaming worlds on the fly. The problem is that our assets are absolutely huge now, as are our draw distances, and our hard drives can't keep up. It means that as you move through the world we're trying to detect and even predict what assets need loading. Tons of constraints get put into place due to this streaming speed.

An ultra fast drive like the one in PS5 means you could be load in the highest level LOD asset for your models way further than you could before and make worlds any way you want without worry of it streaming in fast enough. The PS5 drive is so fast I imagine you could load up entire neighborhoods in a city with all of their maps at super high resolution in a blink of an eye. It's exciting. People don't realize that this will also affect visuals in a big way. If we can stream in bigger worlds and stream in the highest detail texture maps available, it will just look so much better.

I think the Xbox drive is also good! The PS5 drive is just "dream level" architecture though."​

ex-Naughty dog tech art director

Maybe we can finally have fully 3D trees and vegetations with physics in the next GT like they originally intended for GTSport.

 

[NosOsH]

I thinks it's safe to say that the next GT is gonna be INSANE in the MEMBRANE!!!

 

[zzz_pt]

Yes, people expected something different but is this Sonys fault? I dont think so. Sony said this was gonna be a tech deep dive and thats exactly what we got. Its not Sonys fault some gaming sites or Twitter users hyped this like a true console reveal.

Sony just wanted to steal some of Xboxs spotlight after they revealed their full specs. I think this worked out rather well for them.

Sony should know better imo. They should know their fans are waiting for something more. I mean, the overall take away from people who watched it, even knowing it was a tech demo, was that it was poorly managed by Sony, given the expectations fans have atm, in a context where MS has been showing a lot of their console and, in previous generations we never got tech demos before actually showing something more palpable to the general public. Sony should have known hundreds of thousands of people would tune into the live stream.

 

[gtracedriver1]

You know what I find funny? Maybe this is just me placing too much of an emphasis on certain trends, or I'm just being an a-hole, but it's hilarious (to me) that now it's confirmed the PS5 is comparatively weaker than the Xbox Series X....specs don't matter all of a sudden? You can't place too high of an emphasis TFLOPs, it's how the developers use the power given to them, etc.

Was anyone saying these things when the PS4 had the better specs than the Xbox One?

PS4 had 40% more powerful GPU but for devs the main problem was the GDDR5 vs ddr3 and 32mb esram. That resulted in PS4 1080P vs Xbox 900P or 900P vs 720P. This time the difference is half of what it was last time but in favor of Xbox. I think it will be like 2160P vs 1800P in PS5 as far as multiplat goes, checkerboard 4K is also be an option.

 

[Tired Tyres]

Everyone concentrating on TF. When AMD announced it was no longer an accurate measurement of performance. The ALU produces that result. The custom chips don't. They are all faster. Watch the video again.

 

[RaceFuchs]

I thinks it's safe to say that the next GT is gonna be INSANE in the MEMBRANE!!!

I really hope so, but right now, engine sounds are so bad, no 3D audio in the world will change that.

So looking at the specs, i get the feeling that the PS5 will be the more capable machine with some bold design decisions. It will also have VR support, something that Xbox refuses to do. I hope that Xbox will benefit from its extra teraflops, maybe in its raytracing capabilities. Cerny didnt spoke much of raytracing, while Xbox has an rather impressive Minecraft RT demo up and running for everybody to see.

 

[ArR29]

I really hope so, but right now, engine sounds are so bad, no 3D audio in the world will change that.

So looking at the specs, i get the feeling that the PS5 will be the more capable machine with some bold design decisions. It will also have VR support, something that Xbox refuses to do. I hope that Xbox will benefit from its extra teraflops, maybe in its raytracing capabilities. Cerny didnt spoke much of raytracing, while Xbox has an rather impressive Minecraft RT demo up and running for everybody to see.

>engine sounds are so bad
Really? I mean it's not the best in the world. But most the of cars in the game can compete with other racing games on the market right now. And I'm sure the next GT will have substantial improvements together with its visual fidelity

 

[RaceFuchs]

>engine sounds are so bad
Really? I mean it's not the best in the world. But most the of cars in the game can compete with other racing games on the market right now. And I'm sure the next GT will have substantial improvements together with its visual fidelity

I have to disagree with that. Compared to titles like ACC and Raceroom, GT Sport has terrible engine sounds. It is an improvement over GT6 of course and can keep up with PC2 but you wont get any eargasms there.

 

[ArR29]

I have to disagree with that. Compared to titles like ACC and Raceroom, GT Sport has terrible engine sounds. It is an improvement over GT6 of course and can keep up with PC2 but you wont get any eargasms there.

Yeah, I guess if you are comparing it to niche pc sim racers it may sounds like crap. But I was to talking to direct competition of GT, games like Forza and even Grid. GT sounds is on par if not better than those games.

 

[inCloud]

cannot believe people disappointed with the specs

That's a good point but PS5 might well not suffer as much from a somewhat down-clocked CPU (to maximize GPU when needed) given it has custom silicon for 3D audio, storage decompression and storage I/O - maybe as much as a whole cores worth of grunt - but we will have to wait and see what the devs make of all this.

I can't wait to see the early Series X and PS5 games. They are going to be stunning.

They overclock gpu at last moment, few months back we have leaks about 9.2 TF. Most likely, this will be target for balanced performance in next gen games and 10.3tf+8c/8t will be used for crossgen games.

 

[Griffith500]

You know what I find funny? Maybe this is just me placing too much of an emphasis on certain trends, or I'm just being an a-hole, but it's hilarious (to me) that now it's confirmed the PS5 is comparatively weaker than the Xbox Series X....specs don't matter all of a sudden? You can't place too high of an emphasis TFLOPs, it's how the developers use the power given to them, etc.

Was anyone saying these things when the PS4 had the better specs than the Xbox One?

As others have mentioned, it was the overall system design that was most impressive last gen. Just as it is this gen. My recollection from that time was that, aside from the memory implementation, the two consoles were much of a muchness (thank goodness). The extra GPU power would have been for nought if the memory wasn't both shared between the CPU and GPU and of a sufficiently high bandwidth. Incidentally, bandwidth was the PS3's only real hardware Achilles' heel.


But: it is perhaps no coincidence that both Sony and AMD are members of the HSA Foundation, and Microsoft is not (they keep all their futurethoughts in-house e.g. DX12)

This is not bashing, Microsoft consistently err on the side of hardware conservatism, fully aware of the inertia of the software side of things (software being, as it is, their speciality). They appeal to this conservatism on the grounds of productivity - games are easier to make that way.

Arguably, it was this inertia that undermined the potential of the PS3 to some degree (whilst Sony's ill-preparedness for said inertia compounded it significantly), and probably why the PS4 was itself a little conservative. Given that games are supposed to be a creative endeavour, I think Sony have found the sweet spot this time.


All that said, the "surplus" GPU power is much less superfluous in the XBox series X than it was in the PS4, though, as display hardware has moved on considerably. So it can be put to good use on crisper image quality and higher refresh rates. The PS5 might instead offer higher scene density, and "detail" in that sense. But I'm kind of guessing at this point. Very keen to find out!

 

[lancia delta hf]

You know what I find funny? Maybe this is just me placing too much of an emphasis on certain trends, or I'm just being an a-hole, but it's hilarious (to me) that now it's confirmed the PS5 is comparatively weaker than the Xbox Series X....specs don't matter all of a sudden? You can't place too high of an emphasis TFLOPs, it's how the developers use the power given to them, etc.

Was anyone saying these things when the PS4 had the better specs than the Xbox One?

Of course they were, they were called Xbox customers.

 

[alp]

I can't wait for the tear-down video.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I can't wait for the tear-down video.

Me as well. Hope it's got a more reasonable number of inputs for the various things we are going to end up plugging into it than the PS4 has.

 

[Robin]

I can't wait for the tear-down video.

Its almost getting frustrating Not sure why Sony is being so coy about revealing anything whatsoever about the physical machine, not even a teaser. We saw the Series X in one way or another for months but it's Fort Knox at Sony.

I'm interested to see if they have also gone the SFPC tower route given the architecture is similar.

 

[davidt33]

I hope the PS5 will have not just 2 but at least 3 USB ports though. The 2 USB ports were/are simply not enough when one considers peripherals or devices that most gamers need to have connected without having to plug in a third party USB hub to one of the two existing ports.
And also as important I hope it would have an optical port on the console (for at least connecting a wireless headphone basestation which requires an optical port on the console for ideal audio including chat) as opposed to having none on the PS4 Slim.

 

[Tired Tyres]

I hope the PS5 will have not just 2 but at least 3 USB ports though. The 2 USB ports were/are simply not enough when one considers peripherals or devices that most gamers need to have connected without having to plug in a third party USB hub to one of the two existing ports.
And also as important I hope it would have an optical port on the console (for at least connecting a wireless headphone basestation which requires an optical port on the console for ideal audio including chat) as opposed to having none on the PS4 Slim.

It needs more than three. That's how many the Pro has. All three are used permanently. One front port has my 4TB external drive in it, the other front one has a controller plugged into it which I swap over with the one I'm using so I've always got one in use and one on charge. The third, at the back, has either the VR or wireless headphone adapter in it.

 

[baldgye]

You know what I find funny? Maybe this is just me placing too much of an emphasis on certain trends, or I'm just being an a-hole, but it's hilarious (to me) that now it's confirmed the PS5 is comparatively weaker than the Xbox Series X....specs don't matter all of a sudden? You can't place too high of an emphasis TFLOPs, it's how the developers use the power given to them, etc.

Was anyone saying these things when the PS4 had the better specs than the Xbox One?

Has power ever really mattered though?
The original Xbox was more powerful than the PS2 and it got slaughtered, the 360 was weaker (in theory) than the PS3 and the PS3 took a whole generation to get level with it and the Xbone X is the most powerful console and the PS4 still dominates it...

Fanboys of either system will push the easiest narrative they can, and Sony's been in the game longer

 

[inCloud]

You know what I find funny? Maybe this is just me placing too much of an emphasis on certain trends, or I'm just being an a-hole, but it's hilarious (to me) that now it's confirmed the PS5 is comparatively weaker than the Xbox Series X....specs don't matter all of a sudden? You can't place too high of an emphasis TFLOPs, it's how the developers use the power given to them, etc.

Was anyone saying these things when the PS4 had the better specs than the Xbox One?

Thing is, XOne GPU was pathetic, while PS4 GPU was kinda OK. 1.3TF in 2014, when most powerfull AMD GPU has 5.6TF? Actually, both companies could use FX8320 and R9280 in 550$ machines that could bring us 1080@60p in every game until now.

9.2 TF(RTX2080Ti has 13.45TF or ~15TF if you compare architectures) and top tier 8/16 CPU in PS5 in comparison looks great.

 

[alp]

Its almost getting frustrating Not sure why Sony is being so coy about revealing anything whatsoever about the physical machine, not even a teaser. We saw the Series X in one way or another for months but it's Fort Knox at Sony.

I'm interested to see if they have also gone the SFPC tower route given the architecture is similar.

The tension build-up is real I think they will go for their usual blend-in-with-your-TV-unit DVD player like looks but who know anything at this point?

 

[Griffith500]

Yeah I think it'll be pretty conventional.

No real benefit to adopting any particular PC form factor since all the major bits of silicon are in one place, i.e. actually the same bit of silicon. Aside from the memory, of course - and as is usual.

 

[Jtheripper]

Gamers have never had the best handle on technology. Particularly a highly customised system like PS5.

Good breakdown, but he seemed to say the RT is using the gpu and it will leave less for the remaining graphics processing or whatever else the gpu is used for.
I thought both are using dedicated hardware for this, even Ms said if using the regular gpu it would use up 13tf just for the RT.
Not clear on this, on what is this hardware Rt, is it just meaning that the amd rdna2 are Rt capable processing and it will use up whatever flops devs put on Rt? Or the rdna2 has some separate Rt chip included with the gpu? I don't know.