Please Read - Promotions And Possible Changes

[CFM]

Hi everyone, thanks for taking a moment to read my little note here. As you can see the WRS has become larger than I ever thought it would before I took over as head dude of the WRS, and I feel a few changes may be in order.

1) There needs to be a bit of a shift as far as divisions go, because Divisions 2 and 3 are becoming a bit too lopsided for my tastes. Division 1 is also a bit short quite often because almost all of Div.1 are longtime veterans of the OLR scene, and usually do events all over the web at other boards such as GT.de, GT3Times, GTBN, etc. The only problem is that when Div. 1 drivers do show up here they can really put up some smoking times as seen by Rudi's visit from GT.de in week 6. So just randomly promoting Div.2 guys to Div.1 can be a bit overwhelming to newer div.2 drivers.

I am looking to promote about 5-6 drivers from D2 to D1, and maybe 8-10 drivers from D3 to D2 in the near future. Basically, I'd like to see if anyone feels up to the challenge of moving up from D2 or D3 to the next level. So if anyone is interested, post here and if I feel your previous performance warrants it, I'll move you up starting this week. If nobody wants to volunteer, than I will just move 2-3 drivers each week over the next few weeks. So far I have wanted to let drivers at least take a div. win before bumping them up. I already have people in mind for promotion, so maybe they will already be thinking the same thing and ask to be moved here in this thread. It would be nice to get about 5 guys to go to div.1 all at once so at least if they have trouble keeping up at first, they will have a nice rivalry between themselves until everyone's up to speed.

2) I am seriously considering making Div.1 a replay verification madatory division. I think just about everyone in Div.1 has a replay device anyway. I am hoping this will help lure some of the veteran Div.1 guys to run more often as then everyone will feel like it's worth the effort of competing, as they will know everyone's on the level. Personally, I avoid unverified events around the net unless I've run with the drivers in the past and know from past experience that they can be trusted. Anyone wanting to move up to Div.1 will have to keep this in mind before volunteering to move up.

3) I'd like to do a couple of different types of events later on. One being an event where a week or so ahead of time, I post a selection of cars and tracks, and everyone gets to vote by secret ballot on what they want to run the next week. I have a system in mind where I can have everyone's PM's sent to a neutral party for tabulation and kept quiet until the race is announced. A second thought that I had would be a two-person team event, where say a div 1 driver would team up with a div 3 driver, or two div.2 guys would team up. The drivers would be assigned by me so that I would make it as fair as possible, for instance hOt6o4bOi and hollO1 could not team up, they would each be paired up with some of the slower drivers for a handicap. Everyone who would want to particiapte in this type of event would have to make a commitment ahead of time so your parner doesn't get left out in the cold. The teams race could also be held outside the actual WRS as perhaps a 2 week event that would be run alongside the regular WRS events if that would be preferred. I think this could be an interesting idea where drivers could compete against just about everyone no matter the division or skill level, as well as making a few new friends perhaps. These are JUST ideas and NOT definate in anyway. I'm just asking to guage interest in trying some new types of events.


So anyway, that's what's been rattling around my head for a few days, let's have some input please on any or all the above topics.👍 Please keep this particular thread on topic as much as possible so that it will be easier for evryone to read without sorting through too much spam. Ultimately, I am here to serve the drivers of the WRS and try to make it as fun as possible for everyone involved, not impose my crazy schemes upon all of you. Ok, maybe one crazy scheme or two every now and then. Thanks for reading, Todd

 

[Small_Fryz]

Read it all, agreed with most.

1) This is a problem, as WRS has always been 3 divisions, be it beginner, amature, profesional or 1, 2, 3. With so many people you may have to make 4 divisions to break up D2 and D3. there are a few D2 that I feel that are capable of being in D1, but not enough to make much difference. So a 4th division may have to be established to take the load off D2 and D3. You may also have to look at % to decide who belongs in what division. Say for last week, if your 1.5 seconds behind the winner, your D1, 1.5 - 3 seconds, your D2 and 3+ seconds D3 etc. But as times change so does these gaps, thus a % could be used. This may help in balancing out the divisions. I personally belive you should be in a division that pretty much represents your potential, or close to it, this will also help make sure the right people are in the right division.

2) Im all for Div1 to be replay only 👍, i think only veilsidebr is the only Div1 that i know of who cant post replays.

3) All sound great ideas.

 

[Pink_the_Floyd]

Well I would like to be promoted to division 1 but then I don't answer to rule 1. because I haven't got a replay device 👎



Cheers,

 

[StrokerAce]

if my times go back to podium like earlier you can promote me, but i have no replay device either

 

[kragbees]

I agree with Small_Fryz :

1. People should not be able to "choose" where they want to race, I think you should EARN it by showing good times. And also a 4th division can balance the load like he said. Maybe add up all the week's Final lap times, and then divide it by the total number of weeks. The lower the number the better overall driver ... That number will give a good indication of the overall quality of racer on different tracks etc ...

2. Should be compulsory for all Div. 1 and for top 3 Div. 2 and Div. 3 I'm sure there are guys taking chances with this verification not always being needed.

3. Nice idea !

 

[rotbarsch1979]

1) Hmmm... how about ditching the qualification lap at Infineon and come up with a 'Rookie' division where you have to participate in 2 WRSs in a row. After that, using Small_Fryz percentage idea, you'd get placed in a proper division. Something like that would have made me try harder to do a better qualifying lap to get into the championship, cause I'd see how hard I'd have to try to get into the division I want to get into (not that I'd have been able to achieve anything better but Div 3 anyway, but hey. ). And looking at some Div3 guys who show up and just smash Div3 with their first appearance, cause they didn't bother to submit a good qualification lap in the first place seems to be a joy killer, looking at some posts I've read in 'our' Div3 thread.

And why not come up with a 'Veteran' division for all the guys who only submit times randomly, so that they won't interfere with all the hard working Div1 guys who submit times weekly but get points taken away from those 'guest' starters.

2) Agree with kragbees.

3) Sounds good. I like the tag team idea, so that the faster drivers can push us n00bs some... reminds me a bit of the WTCC thingie. *starts browsing board for multiple lap team races *

Those would be my 2c.

 

[Z]

1) I know every time I check Luxy's leaderboard for splits, there's a definite split even among D1. I've been here a short time yet, but it *seemed pretty easy for me to peg who I could even think about chasing in D1. On the other hand, I'll read the splits of the 'top tier' D1 drivers and just say to myself 'Well, at least I'm only xx seconds behind that person at Tx". On to D2.. pretty much the same thing, just not as huge a difference between the top drivers and the others. I don't pay enough attention to D3 to know the situation there except that they get shafted at times when above-average drivers don't spend enough time on the qualifier.. but it looks like something needs changing.

Personally, I'd accept a bump to D1, but I'd not be too excited about it knowing that I'd more than likely never take a podium. That sounds a little greedy and I do realize the WRS is about much more than taking a podium (as is evidenced by the 50+ page weekly threads of people helping each other out, the division pit threads, etc), but you also know that it would suck finishing at the bottom week in and week out.

2) I think mandatory verification for D1 is an excellent idea. No doubt about it. They set a standard above the rest and therefore should provide verification. From my perspective, I don't believe you should be able to continually lay down fast times (atop D2/D3) and land yourself in a position to where you wouldn't have to provide replays (bumped to D1/D2), which is how the current order would go. That said, why not require verification for all podium finishes across the 3 divisions? I know this is a little harder to do with not everyone having a device to verify with, but it makes pretty good sense.

If I were bumped, I'd personally like to be asked to verify on a weekly basis and will probably get into a habit of posting my replays regardless of placement -- could help somebody out there and only helps establish credibility.

3) Sounds quite fun.

newb's two cents.

 

[Kolyana]

Firstly, I'm new here so I feel a little out of line by even piping up ... sorry.

The division *do* seem slightly out of whack. In all fairness, a few people have said "make a 4th division", but I tend to err towards your previous stance of "NEVER!" ... and I say that, because historically only about 30 D3 drivers race each week, even with there being 100 members.

If you created a 4th division, you could easily reduce this to 15 drivers active in each division, and personally I think a number around 25-30 is best ... a chance of not getting into the points and it means something when you do.

You could, perhaps, be a little more aggressive with your promotions ... and demotions. If a driver scores 2 back to back results that are faster than the top half/third of the division above, promote him ... likewise, if he scores slower than the bottom third of the division below, demote him.

I don't know when the cutoffs would be or how long he'd have to run before being moved, and I think that ultimately the human element of 'common sense' must hold sway, but overall I think you could be a little more aggressive in this regard.

I also see nothing wrong with each division being a slightly different size than the others ... the smallest amount in D1, mid range in D2 and larger amount in D3 ... to a large extent I think that this is a natural distribution of skillls and if you suddenly drag a bunch of D2 guys and throw them in D1 (not that you would), then they're pretty much assured that they're going to be out of their league for some time to come.

Now here I pull the infamous "Natalya 180" and raise the point that despite what I said about more division before, to an extent creating a 4th division and redistributing 2nd and 3rd across 2nd, 3rd and 4th may be the easiest and most logical way to redistrute drivers without putting them in a situation where they can suddenly kiss a top ten result goodbye.

You also mentioned D2 and D1 being lopsided, but promoting people from D3 to D2, and then removing people from D2 to D1 doesn't really address D2 at all.

On this note, I tend to echo a couple of the points raised above, because while I fancy and chase a D2 promotion, I don't feel like my skills are there yet, I haven't earned it and when I do get promoted I'm going to be utterly out of my depth for a long time to come (a great day for me is middle of the pack over there).

I don't think that this point can be overlooked ... it's very intimidating and disheartening to be put in a division, or race alongside guys, you have absolutely no chance at. It has been frustrating for me over hte last couple of weeks to be obviously racing against D2 material (and decent D2 material at that) and I've pretty much given up on a top podium position, because every week there's some top notch guy who couldn't be bothered qualifying, so he's banging in a D2 time while we humble D3ers cluster around him fighting amongst ourselves.

So promoting people to a higher division, just to balance things out, could have a detrimental effect as people realize that they're not going to place anywhere but the bottom third of a division for the next x-amount of weeks or months.

Shoot, maybe the answer is to create another division and run smaller numbers of more closely matched drivers, with more aggressive promotions and demotions. Infact, now I've prattled on a bit, I actually think that is the only fair way to go ... but that obviously doesn't mean that I'm not open and looking forward to other ideas.

Ultimately, you have way more drivers than you expected, so you either spread them out across 3 divisions and hope that fighting amongst the bottom of the pack is enough to keep certain people entertained (which is which Teledriel and I created our D3 leaderboard), or you create another division, spread D2 and D3 out across the 3 and allow for more intense fighting amongst them.

Oh, and if I did get promoted to D2 as it is now, I don't think I'd be a happy camper ... I just don't see my skills being there yet.

2. Yes. We hound the likes of Veil and Standard about getting a MaxDrive, so there really shouldn't be any reason why we can't 'hound' anyone else, imho.It should obviously be something that is introduced over time, however ... give people plenty of time to get the money together and make the purchase. Oh, and I offered to buy Veil a MaxDrive 2 weeks ago if he paypaled or western unioned me money ... the offer stands for anyone else out there (he declined in the end, preferring to go through YOU CFM).

3. I love your ideas for team events and polled races ... while I'd hate to be the ball and chain around a D1's ankle, I think it could be amazing fun and build some deeper social aspects to the whole WRS. It could only be a good thing 👍

 

[Tyre King]

Ok here's my opinion!

Take div2 and div3 put them together, get someone with a bit of time and aptitude with spreadsheets to take an average of their finishing positions over the last 8 weeks, adjust for division somehow and then have a 3-way split into d2,d3,d4.

I know from experience that what Natalya said about getting promoted and finding yourself VERY short of pace comparatively speaking, is dis-heartening. Being topish d3 translates to being absolutely no-where in d2, knocks the stuffing out of ya!

Mite have a go at the spreadsheet myself, as an exercise, and let CFM have a look at the results.

Later

 

[bleurabbit7]

Okay, I'm gonna try to give a rookie's opinion. So if I make myself sound retarted, I probably am.

1. From what I've seen in the 3-4 weeks I've started the WRS, we have more than 200 drivers. How many are active and how many signed up and haven't even raced? I honestly think if you haven't raced in 4 weeks, you should be removed (unless previously stated "I'm gonna be gone for a month".) Thus doing this will clean up D2 and most definitely D3. Like Nat said, we have 100+ drivers and only ~30 race each week.

Now, I've looked at Luxy's leaderboard and have seen some very good D2 and D3 drivers. But before making a decision on promoting them, monitor them. Take SRD for example. A really good run for him on the 'Ring'. I'm actually thinking that he should be in D2. But mabye that's his strong point in racing as he didn't fair to well in week 7.

I agree with rotbarsch1979 about having a 'Rookie' division for the new entries. Do a couple of weeks to see where that person stands thus is his/her Division level.

2. I think it's a great idea. It provides proof and a learning tool for younger drivers. I'm only jealous I don't have a MAX DRIVE. I'd love to see, and learn from, how they drive.

3. Sounds good to me.

 

[Sphinx]

I know from experience that what Natalya said about getting promoted and finding yourself VERY short of pace comparatively speaking, is dis-heartening. Being topish d3 translates to being absolutely no-where in d2, knocks the stuffing out of ya!

What's more disheartening is being in div1 whereby you're way too fast for div2 and not nearly fast enough for a div1 podium. you can't get relagated and the fastest of the fast don't get promoted to a higher div to allow you to improve your rating further, unlike the other divisions, and you therefore become a fast grey driver that no one notices. Ring any bells div 1 drivers?

 

[Kolyana]

Ok here's my opinion!

Take div2 and div3 put them together, get someone with a bit of time and aptitude with spreadsheets to take an average of their finishing positions over the last 8 weeks, adjust for division somehow and then have a 3-way split into d2,d3,d4.

I know from experience that what Natalya said about getting promoted and finding yourself VERY short of pace comparatively speaking, is dis-heartening. Being topish d3 translates to being absolutely no-where in d2, knocks the stuffing out of ya!

Mite have a go at the spreadsheet myself, as an exercise, and let CFM have a look at the results.

Later

Teledriel is - literally - a freaking genius with spreadsheets, formulas and statistics ... he has already done this before and was about to embark on this again. He would, without a doubt, be THE perfect candidate for putting this data together.

 

[Sphinx]

1. Yes, but using CFM'S personal method of selection. I don't see the need for yet more stats to establish promotion and thus create yet more work to those concerned. It's normally very easy to identify those who warrant promotion anyway.

2. Yes.


3. Yes.

The only danger I foresee is by going too far with changes. One has to remember that it won't always be this many weekly drivers in the future, things will slacken off as time rolls by, no doubt about that, we've seen it all before. I've said before that the WRS's biggest strength is it's ability to attract all drivers through the simple method of allowing the driver the freedom to run as and when he/she desires, take away that freedom as some have mentioned in here will IMO only damage the WRS in the future.

I am fully aware of how disheartening it can be when a driver that doesn't run every week comes in and beats you, I've been there, done it myself and got the T-Shirt. The ability/freedom to pick and choose when/what you run is one reason why the WRS is so unique, and is therefore IMO the main reason for it's survival for so long, dare I say without wanting to offend anyone but 'live with it' because the day will come when you may like to do the same thing and take part in other events throught the whole GT community that isn't just the GTP.

A Rookie division to weed out possible misplacements of division standing is an interesting idea and should be look into IMO. Good idea whomever thought of it 👍

 

[Canoe]

Just a couple thoughts, maybe this will help you sort things out...

1. There are two areas that need to be clear in setting people into divisions.
First... is the procedure used to promote, or demote, between divisions. Re-aligning divisions every week would be too much, but possibly re-aligning every 5 or 6 weeks would work. Moving any number of people from one division to another shouldn't be a problem as long as the same guidlines/rules are used. People may end up complaining about not having a chance at a podium, but other than pride, there is nothing at stake here. Everyone should stuff their egos away and just do their best.
Second... the size of the divisions should be established so that there is a chance of not scoring points any given week, however trying to predict the number of entrants any given week is impossible to do. The WRS may continue to grow with entries, but the divisions still need to be kept competitive, logical, and clearly defined. There will always be an overlap between divisions, but this is normal, healthy, group dynamics. Enjoy it.
Third... whatever you choose to do, just be consistant and fair with it.

2. Go for it!

3. Ill send in my vote as soon as you want a vote.

 

[Canoe]

Just a couple thoughts, maybe this will help you sort things out...

1. There are two areas that need to be clear in setting people into divisions.
First... is the procedure used to promote, or demote, between divisions. Re-aligning divisions every week would be too much, but possibly re-aligning every 5 or 6 weeks would work. Moving any number of people from one division to another shouldn't be a problem as long as the same guidlines/rules are used. People may end up complaining about not having a chance at a podium, but other than pride, there is nothing at stake here. Everyone should stuff their egos away and just do their best.
Second... the size of the divisions should be established so that there is a chance of not scoring points any given week, however trying to predict the number of entrants any given week is impossible to do. The WRS may continue to grow with entries, but the divisions still need to be kept competitive, logical, and clearly defined. There will always be an overlap between divisions, but this is normal, healthy, group dynamics. Enjoy it.
Third... whatever you choose to do, just be consistant and fair with it.

2. Go for it!

3. Ill send in my vote as soon as you want a vote.

 

[Tyre King]

I agree that CFM's personal touch is perfect normally, BUT, there is a very good argument for splitting the divisions down to 4 now.

If the calculations are done right (and i have no doubt that Tel would do it right), we would find that the faster d2er's ( that don't want to get promoted) and mid table d2er's would stay, slower d2 and faster d3 would form a new d3, and then the slower d3er's ( NO OFFENCE MEANT AT ALL GUYS ) and newbies would make up d4.

Once the split was done, then CFM's good judgement would reign supreme as usual.

Just my opinion, but smaller divisions means that competition within each would be closer and more fun!

@Sphinx
Mate i see what you are saying, but, even if you finish last in d1.....you still get points! Most weeks there are less than 10 of you that post time ( the most was wk1 with 16) and the points go down to 20th! Lucky you, I got 3 top tens (2 pods) in d3 and now can't even get into the top 20 in d3!

Neil

 

[Kolyana]

I got 3 top tens (2 pods) in d3 and now can't even get into the top 20 in d3!

Neil

Shhh, I've got the same myself; you'll be giving CFM ideas and then I'm buggered!

 

[Tyre King]

Soz Nat!

 

[sausages]

Regarding the issue of new drivers' division misplacement, what about letting qualifying drivers aware of the time benchmarks they must achieve in order to be placed in a certain division? That way, there would be something to "chase" so to speak, and might reduce the number of drivers who don't submit a properly representative qualifying time.

I'm sure many (maybe newer) people here realises how checking the provisional leaderboard each week can inspire you to faster laptimes that you may not have thought you were capable of, simply by having a clear target. I reckon a fast driver would then not be happy with spending a few minutes on the qulaifier and settling for a lower division placement than they were capable of.

I'm sure there are downsides to this that I haven't thought of, but I'm just putting it into the mix...

 

[eggmann]

...even if you finish last in d1.....you still get points! Most weeks there are less than 10 of you that post time ( the most was wk1 with 16) and the points go down to 20th! Lucky you, I got 3 top tens (2 pods) in d3 and now can't even get into the top 20 in d3!

This is eggzactly why it would be better to bump people up from D2 and D3 instead of making a 4th division. Why add another division when one division is already short on weekly submissions?

 

[MR8]

This may seem radical, but what about making WRS into a...let say, [20]-race season? By the end of the season there's a week off (or 2) as the off-season. During this off-season points/stats can be sorted out and evaluated, plan new races, and the drivers can rest up.

The top 3 drivers in D2 & D3 division gets the promotion and the ones who either has a track record of random appearance/no-shows, or times way below the division they're in will be demoted. Then in the next season everybody will start from scratch and so on.... you get the idea 💡

You're probably thinking, what happens to the D1 champ? While I'm still utilizing my sports-world concepts, what about an MVP award with a huge trophy mailed to their houses? J/K

I'll write something more useful later...

 

[eggmann]

If it were switched to 20 weeks on and 1 week off, then it would lose some of the uniqueness that Sphinx mentioned. This series has ran every week for over two years (a really long time for those keeping score), so I don't know why we'd need to start having bye weeks now. If you need a break for a week (or more), there's no mandate saying you need to race.

I don't understand the (relatively) recent fascination is with points and rankings. The WRS is not a "championship series" where there is one clear winner at the end of a certain number of events. There are plenty of those types of series around the various GT forums, including GTP, but the WRS has three winners after each and every week, and the next week everyone starts over. Nothing against the various leaderboards maintained here, but I think they should be supplementary and not supreme to the individual weekly results.

 

[Kelly]

@Sphinx
Mate i see what you are saying, but, even if you finish last in d1.....you still get points! Most weeks there are less than 10 of you that post time ( the most was wk1 with 16) and the points go down to 20th! Lucky you, I got 3 top tens (2 pods) in d3 and now can't even get into the top 20 in d3!

Neil

This series is not about points though, it's about podiums! and having the freedom to race when you like.
No points scored are officially connected with WRS so that statement is pointless

I know exactly what sphinx means about being stuck in D1 battling for just a podium, so I'm quite happy to stay in D2 for the time being

As for another division I say no! but at the end of the day it's up to CFM 👍

D1 verified ony : Yes

Team events maybe in the future : Yes

That's my 2p

 

[rotbarsch1979]

Hmmm... so the leaderboard isn't official as far as it goes for the points? Forget about my 'Veteran' league rambling then.

 

[Sphinx]

@Sphinx
Mate i see what you are saying, but, even if you finish last in d1.....you still get points! Most weeks there are less than 10 of you that post time ( the most was wk1 with 16) and the points go down to 20th! Lucky you, I got 3 top tens (2 pods) in d3 and now can't even get into the top 20 in d3!

Neil

Sorry Neil, I didn't make myself clear enough when reffering to 'ranking'.
By 'ranking' I mean how I personally see myself within any given division, therefore the leaderboard has no bearing on this because as time goes by the leaderboard won't give a true reflection on how each driver is compared to other drivers.

 

[Kolyana]

This series is not about points though, it's about podiums!

I can't see how there is a difference. In all divisions MOST drivers will never see a podium, so if the series is all about "podiums!", then most might as well give up and leave now then.

I utterly disagree, the series is *NOT* about podiums.

I am more inclined to agree with the mentality that the series is about healthy competition and racing, being able to walk away when you like and come back when you like.

This being said, it is only natural for some drivers to record their finishing positions each week and compare these to others that they have been racing against ... the net result, whether you call it this or not, is POINTS ... let's face it, points are just a simple way of tracking race history - period - and it's the most natural progression for a lot of drivers who happen to race on a semi-regular basis, whether they get on a podium or not.

Personally, Teledriel and I added the Unofficial D3 leaderboard, because we wanted the guys who are never likely to get into the top ten with any degree of regularity (or even the top 20), to have something to chase after. It's all very well for the good drivers here to be spouting off on "win this, win that, get on a podium here, get on one over there, race now, don't race then", but the simple case is that we have a lot of drivers who enjoy the WRS on an ongoing weekly basis and they are tracking their own progress through the use of rankings and points. It encourages healthy competition, it encourages enjoyment, it encourages improvement, it monitors progress and it's a way to compare yourselves to others.

The WRS may not be *about* points, but I sure as heck can't see how it can avoid the inevitable inclusion of points.

But even if we don't use the word 'points' and instead simply talk in terms of "weekly placement", it is fair to say that several drivers - perhaps MANY - drivers are placed in divisions that they will never do that well in. For some this is fine, for others it is not ... everyone wants to feel that with a little effort they could at least make the top ten in the division they're in, right? AT LEAST a top ten (and this is ignoring the "It's about PODIUMS!" comment from Lotus.

To this end, it seems to me that all the divisions are a little skewed regarding the amount of drivers in each, but simply moving D2 drivers to D1 will ensure that they don't get Top ten results or PODIUMS! from that point forth ... unless some of the driving gods here suddenly decide to take a few months off.

I think that there *SHOULD* be some reworking, but I champion enjoyment within each individual division and I deplore the implication that we'd let a group of drivers fight it out amongst themselves, but they're sure as hell never going to rank very well in the division they then find themselves in.

If people are moved up, people should also be moved down ... there are plenty in D2 that put in times the top ten in D3 beat on a regular basis (sorry guys, but it's true). So whether we keep the 3 divisions or expand to 4, I'm less concerned about this than I am about having drivers placed in bloated divisions with too broad a range of skills. I would like to see increased competition, a narrowing of skills between top and bottom of each division.

And while the 'rookie' division concept has strong merits (I've thought of the same myself over the weeks after being the the division that has to accomodate all the slow-qualifiers-fast-racers), I wonder what would happen if we had 1 new guy in a 6 week period ... he'd be racing on his own, I assume?

WHy not throw all new guys/gals in at Div1 with a *rookie* tag and after their first race correctly place them .. it sure would stop people trying for an easy win by flunking the Qualifier.

Aside from that, I liked the idea about telling people what the Qualifier times are for each division ... I'm not sure why that wouldn't be made availabel anyway. We swap times everyweek in order to chase something and better ourselves, but don't apply the same mentallity to the qualifier. I agree ... by giving this target time, it may encourage people to push themselves into their correct division a little more.

And for those people who say that it's not about points ... just take a look at the number of people monitoring their own results in terms of positions ... it's the same thing and it's obviously what a lot of people are doing, whether it's welcomed with open arms by the WRS veterans or not.

 

[Kolyana]

Sorry Neil, I didn't make myself clear enough when reffering to 'ranking'.
By 'ranking' I mean how I personally see myself within any given division, therefore the leaderboard has no bearing on this because as time goes by the leaderboard won't give a true reflection on how each driver is compared to other drivers.

I'm not sure why that would be the case ... I see it as an extremely accurate way of ranking my skills against someone else.

 

[MR8]

If it were switched to 20 weeks on and 1 week off, then it would lose some of the uniqueness that Sphinx mentioned. This series has ran every week for over two years (a really long time for those keeping score), so I don't know why we'd need to start having bye weeks now. If you need a break for a week (or more), there's no mandate saying you need to race.

I don't understand the (relatively) recent fascination is with points and rankings. The WRS is not a "championship series" where there is one clear winner at the end of a certain number of events. There are plenty of those types of series around the various GT forums, including GTP, but the WRS has three winners after each and every week, and the next week everyone starts over. Nothing against the various leaderboards maintained here, but I think they should be supplementary and not supreme to the individual weekly results.

Yeah, hence why I said it's a radical idea to change its format since this IS, afterall, a Weekly Race Series. You don't have to participate every single week, and with the leaderboard rule, the super-fast, once-every-3-weeks participants will be dropped and the next guy who regularly post up top #s will move up on top.

Realistically, I'd say keep everything the way it is. CFM can promote/demote the ones who he thinks does not belong in their division, promoting 5-6 though, that seems a little too...forced upon. Like everything, the food chain will eventually run its course and balances itself. The slower ones (like myself) in each division will fall to the bottom of the table and some just might be discouraged enough to stop participating. Then, there'll be new drivers coming in and kick our asses (well, mine, at least). Does it mean that The Head Dude will have to keep shuffling division lineups every 7-8 weeks? Hey, maybe it's easier to do all these work than I think but I'd say:

A.) Promote 2-3 D2s -> D1
B.) Promote 4-5 D3s -> D2
C.) "Rookies" will continue to run qualifiers, but will have a trial period of 2-3 WRS's before they are properly placed in their true divisions.
D.) Make replay verification mandatory for all of D1, and mandatory for all podium + suspicious finishers across the divisions.
E.) I'm all for a tag-team match once in a while.
F.) Err....nothing else, I'm brian dead and hungry.

 

[bleurabbit7]

After reading everybody's say on division placement and promotions, this is what I think.

1. Division Placements: Whether it's qualifying or 'Rookie' division, both have there ups and downs. Reason being is the way some people are. If you post the qualifying times for each division, as a new entry comes in (maybe a little greedy for points/podiums), he/she may enter a time to get them in that lower division. Only if they are honest will it place them in the 'proper' division.

With the 'Rookie' division, yeah they might be racing themselves if they are the only one to enter that week, but it's about finding their 'proper' division.

2. Promotions: If it's gonna by left to CFM, as he monitors and sees one may have potential for it, I think that that person should be asked if he/she is ready for the new challenge and then be promoted.

 

[Jetboy.]

I like most of the ideas posted here, except the Division Dividing issue. Due to my lack of activity (No internet for weeks) I would easily be placed in the 4th Division. I usually place mid to upper place in the 3rd D. If I did get a podium, I would have to verify, which is impossible. (Computer/PS2 different houses.)