PLZ no more Expensive Cars in GT7

[ScottPuss20]

If you feel the need to cheat in order to get the cars you want, you don't deserve them.

 

[Dave A]

The game economy is broken. The game economy is broken. (echo ... echo ... echo)

Ummm ... No.

There is literally just a handful of cars that can be viewed as too expensive.
And sure, I've no issue with that point of view.
Also, Cr.20mill. cars with a Cr.20mill. credit cap is a stupid idea.

But, for around 98% of the 340ish car roster in GT Sport, the 'game economy' is more than reasonable.

So ummmm... yes, the in game economy is broken. If as you have just admitted there are cars that are too expensive, you are admitting that the in game economy isn't balanced correctly. The fact there aren't a lot of cars over the 10m Cr mark doesn't mean the cost of those cars is not balanced or it doesn't point to a poorly thought out in game economy.

And considering the Cr. range from cheapest to dearest, and the distributed percentage of cars in the car list through that range, good luck finding a better balance.

GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4. Forza 1, Forza 2, Forza 3, Forza 4, they all offered better in game economies than GT Sport does.

Regarding the OP and GT7 ... Yeh, I kinda agree.
I get the 'unicorn' concept, and can agree with that point of view to some degree.

I don't get the appeal of unicorn cars at all, it's absurd to have cars locked in at such high prices a large number of players won't ever get to drive them. It's not like it impacts me if everyone has the Ferrari 250 GTO or not, but it does impact me if it's not possible for me to save enough Cr to afford it. So why not make them just difficult to earn instead of an exessively time consuming grind fest to earn.

But I hope GT7 can, in some way, be a little more accommodating regarding purchasing the most expensive cars.

Yes I hope so too.

 

[RACECAR]

Famine, you're a disgrace on how you Dig Up Dirt about my past, just because I say something about the game Economy which have nothing to do on what I do to earn extra credits ok.

Is it really digging up dirt when your admission is freely accessible to anyone that puts effort into looking for it (More so then you did getting the high credit cars in the game)?

First a little context, "You will not use “textspeak” (“r”, “u”, “plz”, etc.) in your messages. Decent grammar is expected at all times, including proper usage of capital letters."









The preceding quotes (and those from other users) were more than opinions.

"You will not behave in an abusive and/or hateful manner, …"






Again, this was off-topic, context notwithstanding. It was an editorial comment (not merely an opinion about the OP topic) about another user's behavior.






By page 2, this discussion had progressed beyond an interaction of opinions "on the game's economy" to become an interpersonal dynamic I classify as an issue; "PLZ no more Expensive Cars in GT7" had ceased to be a concern and both the extent and the nature of this bickering had made "context" irrelevant. Whether you saw it as an opinion matters little to me. This portion of the discussion (which seemed to stem from past interactions the nature of which I neither deserve nor care to know) needed to happen privately.






I interpret this as your admission that, in fact, the discussion of "opinions" *was* an issue.


Conclusively, these types of posts (now likely including my current post) should be subject to moderation. Personal, off-topic issues between users should be handled privately. This forum is GTPlanet, not the Court of Soiled Apparel for the airing of dirty laundry.

How about you stop playing mod over how an Administrator is posting? Doesn't take a genius to figure out how useless and beyond how pointless of an idea that is.

 

[smoothbore12]

Rumors reveal late this noon that polyphony digital will never negotiate the price of their "unicorn " cars.

Some of us might think that the price is :

And some that can afford the price might say :

Personally about the high price cars of the game and from what i realise among players i know its its more or less like that

The truth is that if someone is desperate to own the high price cars ,someday he will collect them .
After all there's nothing magical on them and as i know there's no competition based on them.
Many people use the game for certain reasons and play as and what they like for and there is nothing bad on this.
We will wait and see ,and as real life many things is as it is and they don't ask our permission to be the way they are .
Agree or not ,wish or not ,that chapter is another's priest gospel as we say here .

Be safe and cool.

 

[Silver Arrows]

If as you have just admitted there are cars that are too expensive, you are admitting that the in game economy isn't balanced correctly. The fact there aren't a lot of cars over the 10m Cr mark doesn't mean the cost of those cars is not balanced or it doesn't point to a poorly thought out in game economy.

Another point to add: Considering that GT Sport, from the very beginning, was billed as an online focused game, the fact that one even *needs* to buy vehicles for the multiplayer portion is ludicrous, especially since BOP is ever shifting, and you're basically asking people to play a keep up game if they want to compete in Daily Races and FIA races considering how seriously some people take it. Thus, we're right back to square one and the problems of the game economy are staring you in the face again.

As said, Famine's idea of unlocking all the vehicles for all modes *except* the single player campaign for GT7 would be the best for all parties involved. It allows people to have a sense of accomplishment in the single player like they are used to with GT games previous, and it doesn't utterly kneecap other players who are more into livery making, photography, online racing or whatever into the single player campaign in order to prolong the length of time people play the game.

 

[tonybarnaby]

If you feel the need to cheat in order to get the cars you want, you don't deserve them.

I don’t agree with this. If someone buys the game and finds a way to get what they want by glitching, it’s not hurting anyone. If you cheat to get a bunch of cars and then try to talk down to people about it, then that’s an issue. No one “deserves” anything from a single player game. A lot of people who play action games like the last of us 2 will claim if you don’t play on the hardest difficulty level, you didn’t really experience the game. I personally pay my $60 and will do whatever it takes to get the max enjoyment from them. Nothing in a video game has any real world value, so there’s no harm in working the system as long as it only affects your singular use and enjoyment of the game.

 

[Xephier]

I think on a somewhat objective level, the only time this grind factor gets REALLY bad for the most part, is when game companies start using them to try and make money in real life. Like adding the random loot box microtransactions, or making the grinds impossibly hard so that people will just pay to win.. Just don't turn this into some fisher priced clickbait slot machine ********, and I'll be fine.

 

[tonybarnaby]

I think on a somewhat objective level, the only time this grind factor gets REALLY bad for the most part, is when game companies start using them to try and make money in real life. Like adding the random loot box microtransactions, or making the grinds impossibly hard so that people will just pay to win.. Just don't turn this into some fisher priced clickbait slot machine ********, and I'll be fine.

Grinding by definition isn’t ideal. You’d like to think that just playing the game would open up everything, but it’s never worked like that. I remember a few games ago having to grind for hours at Indianapolis. I would grind that race (can’t remember the specifics) over and over and over. Sometimes I’d play 3 hours and do nothing but grinding. After a while it gets old and you wanna do something that’s entertaining, not a monotonous race repeatedly just to gain virtual currency to purchase a virtual car.

 

[Samus]

Even the grinding wouldn't be quite so bad if they managed to create a bunch of events with very similar credit per minute payouts. Instead there is always one or two that is miles faster than any other, so you're almost forced to do it unless you want things to take even longer. If they programmed the credit payouts in such a way that longer races scaled up to pay the same as shorter ones within the same league/event, that'd be far less repetitive.

Mind you, getting rid of the grind entirely is still the best option.

 

[Dave A]

Even the grinding wouldn't be quite so bad if they managed to create a bunch of events with very similar credit per minute payouts. Instead there is always one or two that is miles faster than any other, so you're almost forced to do it unless you want things to take even longer. If they programmed the credit payouts in such a way that longer races scaled up to pay the same as shorter ones within the same league/event, that'd be far less repetitive.

Mind you, getting rid of the grind entirely is still the best option.

Yes, absolutely, yes.

The Cr payouts should be based on an algorithm that considers the difficulty/license requirement for the event and the race length.

None of this x event gets you double the Cr per minute than anything else nonsence. They need to balance it properly. Give us enough events, manage the payouts at each level and balance that across that level.

 

[equalitus]

Extremely expensive cars are only a mistake insofar as the *grinding* time [in the definition of 'forced' repetitive driving a race for the sole reason of gaining credits to buy that extremely expensive but extremely cool car], is too long, or should I say, way too long in GTS. Famine was spot on when he used GT4 as reference point both to GT3 and GT5&GT6&GTS, because GT4 has 90% good game playing modus, time-function wise.

If not PD would give us an editor, we should have the choice of having increased payout by [additional] 10% for each repeated race within a time frame of a week etc. Then it would be easy to 'grind' enough money for the 20M cars.

If you feel the need to cheat in order to get the cars you want, you don't deserve them.

If I feel that I [or we GT players in general] need an editor to change the boring grinding obstacle, then the game is not properly designed by the progression function factor. Or make more options for each individual player, by setting credit payoff manually by increasing percent payoff. Then problem solved for all, at least the time factor issue. We payed tens of $ for a game we deserve to have fun without boring repetitive grinding.

 

[Xephier]

I don’t agree with this. If someone buys the game and finds a way to get what they want by glitching, it’s not hurting anyone. If you cheat to get a bunch of cars and then try to talk down to people about it, then that’s an issue. No one “deserves” anything from a single player game. A lot of people who play action games like the last of us 2 will claim if you don’t play on the hardest difficulty level, you didn’t really experience the game. I personally pay my $60 and will do whatever it takes to get the max enjoyment from them. Nothing in a video game has any real world value, so there’s no harm in working the system as long as it only affects your singular use and enjoyment of the game.

Only half agree. If you've played a game like Gta5 online for a while, that's the kinda game where cheating is fully acceptable because of how the game company runs it.. They basically have the entire game geared towards selling shark cards (micro transaction currency), and will leave game breaking bugs and glitches in the game and only fix anything that takes away from the cash flow.. They're constantly adding new 2-6 million dollar cars to the game, while the most elaborate missions still only net you 1.5 million, max.. I grinded the game for months, legit, bought every business, put off even buying the stuff I wanted just to put money into perpetual investments, I even cheated up 20-30 million in dupe car sales after that, and even now I don't have all I want in the game.. So ya, situations like that, cheating is 100% permissible.

But not situations like you mention where people first step into a game and start cheating right away, then they get the bragging rights of having everything that it took you months to get, but getting it instantly.. Those people are just trash..

But ya, agree, grinding is ****, I did it for years in everquest2, grinding the same **** over and over, I can't do it anymore.. Games should be played to have fun, not only for pure addiction purposes and to bust out more money to the company that you already bought the game from..

 

[Tassie_tiger]

So ummmm... yes, the in game economy is broken. If as you have just admitted there are cars that are too expensive, you are admitting that the in game economy isn't balanced correctly. The fact there aren't a lot of cars over the 10m Cr mark doesn't mean the cost of those cars is not balanced or it doesn't point to a poorly thought out in game economy.

GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4. Forza 1, Forza 2, Forza 3, Forza 4, they all offered better in game economies than GT Sport does.

I don't get the appeal of unicorn cars at all, it's absurd to have cars locked in at such high prices a large number of players won't ever get to drive them. It's not like it impacts me if everyone has the Ferrari 250 GTO or not, but it does impact me if it's not possible for me to save enough Cr to afford it. So why not make them just difficult to earn instead of an exessively time consuming grind fest to earn.

Yes I hope so too.

Ummm ... Once again ... No.

Simply recognising the point of view some people hold, and suggesting I can understand why they may feel that way, is in no way 'admitting' anything.
Other than the credit cap, I, personally, made no claim either way.

If you and others wish to take an extreme outlier example and then use that to make a blanket statement without any sort of caveat whatsoever, then I guess, do what you have have to do.
But here's one thing I will 'admit', to me that approach comes across as disingenuous.

If you feel there are a handful of cars that are too expensive, then make that statement ... 'There are a handful of cars that are too expensive'.
Making an inclusive statement, 'the game economy is broken', is simply unnecessary and misleading.

 

[Dave A]

Ummm ... Once again ... No.

Simply recognising the point of view some people hold, and suggesting I can understand why they may feel that way, is in no way 'admitting' anything.
Other than the credit cap, I, personally, made no claim either way.

If you and others wish to take an extreme outlier example and then use that to make a blanket statement without any sort of caveat whatsoever, then I guess, do what you have have to do.
But here's one thing I will 'admit', to me that approach comes across as disingenuous.

If you feel there are a handful of cars that are too expensive, then make that statement ... 'There are a handful of cars that are too expensive'.
Making an inclusive statement, 'the game economy is broken', is simply unnecessary and misleading.

The cost of those few cars is directly connected to the games economy. There are however other problems with the in game economy to these super expensive cars, but this thread is not to discuss that, it's priamrily about the cars. There are plenty of posts suggesting what other things are unbalanced such as individual events that have notably higher payouts per minute than others, the need to grind etc. There are other reasons the in game economy in GT Sport is broken than just car prices but that's the main focus of this thread.

You're view might be that there is nothing wrong with the in game economy, but you have decided to dismiss that view immediately by stating "Umm no", that is not acknowledging another point of view, that is not discussing another point of view, that is dismissing another point of view. It may not have been intended to be so provocative which I accept, text doesn't always translate as intended.

But if you want a better balanced in game economy look no further that GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4, Forza 1, Forza 2, Forza 3 and Forza 4. All 8 of those games have better blaanced economies than GT Sport has.

There is nothing uneccessary or misleading with the statement that the in game economy in GT Sport is broken. It is a point of view, you might not share it, but try to understand the logic behind a point of view and then present your own rather than dismiss it outright. It certainly is a view that is relevant to this thread whether you agree with it or not.

 

[Tricky Vega]

Sure thing. And because it's an unintended mechanic that you are exploiting (and was patched out to prevent people from exploiting it), it's a cheat, so you cheated.

As you cheated to get money in the game, you don't get to pontificate about the right way to play the game, or about how dedicated other people are, or how balanced the game economy is. You're a cheater; your opinion on how to play the game and other people's dedication is invalid - you are simply not worth listening to on the subject because you cheated to get around it. Despite that, you continue to pop up and tell people how the game economy is fair, or they're not dedicated enough to grind for credits (like you didn't do, because you cheated), or they're not playing the game the right way. You're even telling people what the right way to play GT7 will be, even though you cheated in GTS, and I wager will cheat again in GT7 if the opportunity arises.

Every time you get on your horse and act as an authority on moral behaviour in Gran Turismo, I will point out your blazing hypocrisy as a known and admitted cheater. If you don't want me to point out that you cheated every time you tell other people about the right way to play, don't do it.

Sorry guys but exploiting a glitch is only entering a breach in a faulted program code .... I don't see where the cheat is.

If there were glitches in early versions of GT Sport it's not yet the players' fault actually.

I've never exploited a single glitch in the game because I simply wasn't aware of those, and if it has been the case I would have made my 20 millions cred. cars' collection on it, it also wouldn't make me a less dedicated player because this would only represent 4 or 5 cars in my nearly 800 cars' garage.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

The cost of those few cars is directly connected to the games economy. There are however other problems with the in game economy to these super expensive cars, but this thread is not to discuss that, it's priamrily about the cars. There are plenty of posts suggesting what other things are unbalanced such as individual events that have notably higher payouts per minute than others, the need to grind etc. There are other reasons the in game economy in GT Sport is broken than just car prices but that's the main focus of this thread.

You're view might be that there is nothing wrong with the in game economy, but you have decided to dismiss that view immediately by stating "Umm no", that is not acknowledging another point of view, that is not discussing another point of view, that is dismissing another point of view. It may not have been intended to be so provocative which I accept, text doesn't always translate as intended.

But if you want a better balanced in game economy look no further that GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4, Forza 1, Forza 2, Forza 3 and Forza 4. All 8 of those games have better blaanced economies than GT Sport has.

There is nothing uneccessary or misleading with the statement that the in game economy in GT Sport is broken. It is a point of view, you might not share it, but try to understand the logic behind a point of view and then present your own rather than dismiss it outright. It certainly is a view that is relevant to this thread whether you agree with it or not.

"The cost of those few cars ..."
Precisely.

Who has complained about the game economy to buy Cr.1mill, or lower, cars?
Who has complained about the game economy to buy Cr.3mill. cars?
Who has complained about the game economy to buy even Cr.10mill. cars?
No-one.

You seem committed to not recognise that there is a difference in the statements 'there are a handful of cars that are too expensive' and 'the game economy is broken'.
One of those highlights, what some think, is a specific issue.
The other is a sweeping, hyperbolic generalisation.

 

[Tricky Vega]

I still want expensive cars in GT 7 because it is only their fair price in the range of 20 millions cred. limit.

I'd rather go actually for a more fair and bigger reward system and highen the credit limit to 50 millions and get the "unicorns" cars to more specific prices to one an other above the 20 millions.

 

[Dave A]

"The cost of those few cars ..."
Precisely.

Who has complained about the game economy to buy Cr.1mill, or lower, cars?
Who has complained about the game economy to buy Cr.3mill. cars?
Who has complained about the game economy to buy even Cr.10mill. cars?
No-one.

That is an absured counter-argument for this thread and the points being made. But FTAOD yes the 10m Cr cars are included in my argument as being needlessly expensive and requiring too much grinding to acquire. I have made this point earlier in the thread which you can read if you want to. The 20m Cr cars natrually garner the most attention. Personally I would argue most of the cars over 5m Cr are unneccesarily expensive due to the rest of the game design and grinding required to obtain them. If it were my game I would be setting the most expensive cars to around the 5 Cr mark and then adjusting the prices of the other cars to condense them in a logical way (i.,e. not just set all prices to 1/4 of what they are currently).

In addition I'd ensure that the Cr payouts for the events were balanced so at each difficulty you would earn an appropriate amount of Cr per minute regardless of the race and balance that with the events so that as you reach events that use progressively more expensive cars you could have earned the needed amount of Cr along the way without grinding.

You seem committed to not recognise that there is a difference in the statements 'there are a handful of cars that are too expensive' and 'the game economy is broken'.
One of those highlights, what some think, is a specific issue.
The other is a sweeping, hyperbolic generalisation.

Whereas you seem commited to the notion that the statement "the game economy is broken" = a handfull of cars are too expensive. The most expensive cars being too expensive is one aspect of the broken economy but it highlights flaws in other areas as well. The fact you have to grind excessively to acquire cars at various sages of the game points to a flawed economy in this game. The easiest solution to that issue is to reduce the cost of those cars that you need to grind for, which is an in game ecoomy decision. But it would likely be better to combine different approaches to provide the best overall balance.

As I have pointed out before, there are other contributing factors to the notion that the game economy is broken. The cost of these cars is simply the main focus of this thread and highlights issues with the games economy. The Cr payouts for the races are all over the place which is another area that needs improvement. The pacing of the earnings as you progress through the events is not thought through at all IMO, whereas in earlier titles it was much better.

You also have completely ignored the suggestion that GT1, GT2, GT3, GT4, Forza 1, Forza 2, Forza 3 and Forza 4 all have more balanced in game economies after you suggested it would be difficult to find a better balanced economy in any other game. Hell I think Test Drive 6 had a better economy that GT Sport, the game wasn't great but the progression to faster and more expensive cars was logical and smooth.

 

[Famine]

Sorry guys but exploiting a glitch is only entering a breach in a faulted program code .... I don't see where the cheat is.

That's what the definition of cheating is in gaming - exploiting an existing glitch to generate an unintended result.

That's distinct from "cheats" which are hidden, intended game modes you must enter with specific inputs. Modifying game code to create results either not originally possible or possible only through debug/god modes which are inaccessible in ordinary circumstances is "hacking" - though commonly those using hacks have simply bought a hacked save rather than doing any hacking.

 

[Tricky Vega]

That's what the definition of cheating is in gaming - exploiting an existing glitch to generate an unintended result.

That's distinct from "cheats" which are hidden, intended game modes you must enter with specific inputs. Modifying game code to create results either not originally possible or possible only through debug/god modes which are inaccessible in ordinary circumstances is "hacking" - though commonly those using hacks have simply bought a hacked save rather than doing any hacking.

Hacking a game code to improve and modify your performances, or status or content in your save : that's exactly what is cheating in my mind.

A glitch, bug, a collision issue or anything coming from a default in the game allowing you to win more easily is maybe unfair but remains the editors' fault.

And I can't believe that at your age and status on this website you've never hacked or cheated in any game

I hope you get my point of view, that making a few credits on a glitch is not such a serious issue

 

[McLaren]

Hacking a game code to improve and modify your performances, or status or content in your save : that's exactly what is cheating in my mind.

A glitch, bug, a collision issue or anything coming from a default in the game allowing you to win more easily is maybe unfair but remains the editors' fault.

And I can't believe that at your age and status on this website you've never hacked or cheated in any game

I hope you get my point of view, that making a few credits on a glitch is not such a serious issue

Not really if the only way to take advantage of the glitch is to purposely seek it out with the sole desire of using it to one's advantage. That puts just as much fault on the player since there's established intent.

 

[Tricky Vega]

Not really if the only way to take advantage of the glitch is to purposely seek it out with the sole desire of using it to one's advantage. That puts just as much fault on the player since there's established intent.

Yeah I get it : so I put the glitch issue on the same level than raming AI cars in GT League in order to win more easily, that's also some kind of "cheating" with established intent

... Or lurring other players with an awful livery in order to make them puke instead of racing is cheating with established intent

Seriously, I DO hope there will be more expensive cars in GT 7.

I actually wish Polyphony Digital would raise the credit limit to 50 millions in order to raise the price of the 250 gto, the 330 p4, the 917k ... over 20 millions.

 

[Famine]

And I can't believe that at your age and status on this website you've never hacked or cheated in any game

I hope you get my point of view, that making a few credits on a glitch is not such a serious issue

I don't care what people do with their own game save (and no-one should care what I do with mine). It's unimportant.

However if some cheats in a game, they don't get to tell other people what the right way to play that game is (or isn't). If they cheat to speed up a tedious task, they don't get to question other people's dedication. If they cheat to get more money, they don't get to act like the game's economy is fine - they simply don't have a balanced perspective on it.

Or at least not without being reminded that their position is not one anyone should treat seriously.

 

[Tricky Vega]

I don't care what people do with their own game save (and no-one should care what I do with mine). It's unimportant.

However if some cheats in a game, they don't get to tell other people what the right way to play that game is (or isn't). If they cheat to speed up a tedious task, they don't get to question other people's dedication. If they cheat to get more money, they don't get to act like the game's economy is fine - they simply don't have a balanced perspective on it.

Or at least not without being reminded that their position is not one anyone should treat seriously.

It is quite a moralist argument which doesn't really work on me

GT Sport in-game economy went well for me

 

[CBH]

View attachment 951623 View attachment 951624 View attachment 951626 View attachment 951627
GT Sport in-game economy went well for me

Very nice my friend .

The more time you play GT Sport more Credits will come your way, with less time playing GT Sport less credits will come your way. So you can not Blame the game for the in-game economy, just because he/she does not play as much can you.

 

[Samus]

Very nice my friend .

The more time you play GT Sport more Credits will come your way, with less time playing GT Sport less credits will come your way. So you can not Blame the game for the in-game economy, just because he/she does not play as much can you.

No, you can just cheat and rubber band your controller instead. Or buy cars off the PS store.

Stop being a ridiculous hypocrite lecturing people that they should play the game properly and everything is fine when you didn't yourself.

 

[Famine]

It is quite a moralist argument

Morality doesn't enter into it, just consistency.

Someone who cheats to bypass hours of (very tedious) grinding simply has no place telling people who sink in hundreds of hours both to be among the best in the world and help others out with countless hours of video that they are not dedicated enough at the game. Someone who cheats to get credits quickly is not in a position to say the game economy is just fine, because they cheated to bypass the game economy!

Yet he does.

The morality of cheating is - as it's their game to play their way - simply not relevant (unless they also did it to get free Sport Mode wins, which is not something he has admitted to doing, thus there is no evidence of it). It's the hypocrisy of a guy who takes shortcuts telling other people they lack dedication, don't play the game properly, and that a mechanism they choose to circumvent is one that works fine.

 

[ScottPuss20]

Morality doesn't enter into it, just consistency.

Someone who cheats to bypass hours of (very tedious) grinding simply has no place telling people who sink in hundreds of hours both to be among the best in the world and help others out with countless hours of video that they are not dedicated enough at the game. Someone who cheats to get credits quickly is not in a position to say the game economy is just fine, because they cheated to bypass the game economy!

Yet he does.

The morality of cheating is - as it's their game to play their way - simply not relevant (unless they also did it to get free Sport Mode wins, which is not something he has admitted to doing, thus there is no evidence of it). It's the hypocrisy of a guy who takes shortcuts telling other people they lack dedication, don't play the game properly, and that a mechanism they choose to circumvent is one that works fine.

Can't say the economy is good when you haven't even experienced it!

 

[Samus]

It is quite a moralist argument which doesn't really work on me

View attachment 951623
GT Sport in-game economy went well for me

So just to clarify, you've earned enough to buy all the cars after driving a whopping 120,000km which according to your profile took you just over 750 hours. And that's just driving, so doesn't include loading, menus etc.

...and that to you that is reasonable? It's expected that all players should have that amount of time to earn all the cars, and if not, tough luck? Damn anyone who wants to also do other things with their spare time?

There surely has to be a middle ground between that and the supposed "I want everything in five minutes" people that fordlaser continually says exist.

 

[Tricky Vega]

PD has to create some "anti glitch" police cars in GT 7 for some websites' admin and it'd cost 19 millions cr.

Come on just relax, it's just not a serious matter