Political Correctness

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A white or light skinned filter is one thing. Telling people they can only sign up for the service if they have a certain skin color is something else. Imagine for a moment, a brothel that allows you to pick your uh... provider... based on skin color. Now imagine a brothel that says "whites only". That's the difference, and it's not insignificant.
The dating app in question let anyone sign up regardless of skin colour so was the same as any other app catering for other ethnicities. It still got called racist.
Well that's not actually the issue you posted. The issue you posted was (as I understood it), a lesbian that wanted more than just to be matched with people who lack penises, but who were also born female.
That was the second article. The first one was broader.

It could be, but it's not a sufficient basis from which to draw that conclusion.
If only social media was so patient before labelling someone a transphobe.
 
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I don't understand your point, I never denied calling them hypocrites. I'm saying what I have learnt since doing that.... I thought that was clear in my post.
You didn't merely call them hypocrites. In order to justify calling them hypocrites, you alleged activities that would reinforce the notion that they were hypocrites but declined to substantiate those allegations.

You didn't like those activists' cause, so you opted to attack them, and now you cite other activists' claims to justify this individual's feeling "less safe" seemingly without hesitation.

This is deceitful.
 
It still got called racist.
It happens. People call each other stuff, sometimes without good reason. Don't get too worked up about it. I don't know the particular app, so I can't tell you whether I would come to the same conclusion.
If only social media was so patient before labelling someone a transphobe.
"Social media" is not a thing, people are a thing, and people call each other stuff. Try not to get too worked up about it. I'd prefer that dating apps didn't respond without nuance, but that happens too, and it's their prerogative.
 
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You didn't merely call them hypocrites. In order to justify calling them hypocrites, you alleged activities that would reinforce the notion that they were hypocrites but declined to substantiate those allegations.

You didn't like those activists' cause, so you opted to attack them, and now you cite other activists' claims to justify this individual's feeling "less safe" seemingly without hesitation.

This is deceitful.
What activities?

It happens. People call each other stuff, sometimes without good reason. Don't get too worked up about it. I don't know the particular app, so I can't tell you whether I would come to the same conclusion.

"Social media" is not a thing, people are a thing, and people call each other stuff. Try not to get too worked up about it. I'd prefer that dating apps didn't respond without nuance, but that happens too, and it's their prerogative.
Was called "Where white people meet"

"Social media" is not a thing, people are a thing, and people call each other stuff. Try not to get too worked up about it. I'd prefer that dating apps didn't respond without nuance, but that happens too, and it's their prerogative.
The problem is, what if it has consequences further down the line.
 
What activities?
You alleged they were placing orders through "boohoo," whatever that is and however such an unsubstantiated allegation makes them hypocrites. I linked to the post in which you did so. Jesus tapdancing Christ, you are unbelievably ****ing thick.
 
You alleged they were placing orders through "boohoo," whatever that is and however such an unsubstantiated allegation makes them hypocrites. I linked to the post in which you did so. Jesus tapdancing Christ, you are unbelievably ****ing thick.
Just ease up man, not good for your blood pressure.

That was using people I know as an example - it doesn't mean every single person allied to that cause is using a company that were guilty of human rights violations nor did I say that was the case. It was to call out, what I thought of at the time the hypocrites. It wasn't even limited to people who used boohoo as I'm sure other companies that some people use were guilty of similar things.
 
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Just ease up man, not good for your blood pressure.
Ease up from what? I'm plenty calm.
That was using people I know as an example - it doesn't mean every single person allied to that cause is using a company that were guilty of human rights violations nor did I say that was the case.
That's certainly not how you presented it in the post. You've employed the tactic since, and I've quoted you as having done so.
It was to call out, what I thought of at the time the hypocrites.
An anecdote doesn't accomplish this, even when said anecdote is revealed to be exactly that.
It wasn't even limited to people who used boohoo as I'm sure other companies that some people use were guilty of similar things.
And now you're presenting hypothetical hypocrisy in order to justify attacking activists whose cause you oppose. I'd say it's unbelievable if not for the fact that I expect it from you. Why does deceit come so easy to you?
 
That's certainly not how you presented it in the post. You've employed the tactic since, and I've quoted you as having done so.
I saw it as being so ubiquitous to be using a service/product (whatever that service/product is) that has a questionable human rights record that I didn't think it required actual figures on the number that overlap between the two groups.

But again, like has been pointed out, it was wrong to call out people like that.

And now you're presenting hypothetical hypocrisy in order to justify attacking activists whose cause you oppose. I'd say it's unbelievable if not for the fact that I expect it from you. Why does deceit come so easy to you?
See above. Based on what I said about Disney + I would count Apple users as being guilty as well, which was the wrong way to think about things. I just wish there was as widespread a movement against global human rights abuses.

Can you not tell a difference between a website called "this is for white people" and having a filter on your dating site that allows individuals to select a skin color?
It's not just for white people:

But Russell said users on their site are not required to check a white racial preference nor are they kicked off for not being white, even though the name would suggest otherwise.

If it's anything like the South Asian apps I've used (I look more like the black side of my heritage) then no-one is going to care what colour you are.

There's also a blackpeoplemeet site that is running.

Like what?
People have killed themselves over posts on social media so there's potential for psychological harm. Could also lead to people not calling out things that should be over fears of being called racist/sexist/transphobic etc.
 
But Russell said users on their site are not required to check a white racial preference nor are they kicked off for not being white, even though the name would suggest otherwise.
The name would suggest otherwise (on purpose). I suppose you think a website called "thiswebsiteisforwhitepeopleonly-wehateblackpeople.com" would be not racist if they technically allowed black people to sign up?
There's also a blackpeoplemeet site that is running.
...and that means what? That whitepeoplemeet is a good title?
People have killed themselves over posts on social media so there's potential for psychological harm.
People have killed themselves for a lot of reasons. I agree that people calling someone a racist a transphobe could result in psychological harm, but so could virtually all speech.

Could also lead to people not calling out things that should be over fears of being called racist/sexist/transphobic etc.
I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make here is.
 
I just wish there was as widespread a movement against global human rights abuses.
I just wish there was an understanding that peple are likely to pay attention to issues that are perceived to hit close to home and that there wasn't such a desire to torpedo a movement because it's perceived to get more attention than another.

Let me know when you find that lamp and we can both give it a rub.
 

Earlier this year, the Ottawa-Carleton District School Board removed William Golding's classic Lord of the Flies from its curriculum after its advisory committee on equity agreed with a student who said the book’s themes were outdated and too focused on white, male power structures.

I didn't read the other two in high school, but I'm rather amused a book that was as far as 16 year old me could tell a scathing critique on what "white male power structures" can lead to was deemed outdated because it focused on them (months after a white male power structure tried to overthrow the United States government). Seems a bit like removing 1984 because it was focused too much on Apple being mean to Fortnite on something that seemed like an authoritarian Western-like government.
 
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The name would suggest otherwise (on purpose). I suppose you think a website called "thiswebsiteisforwhitepeopleonly-wehateblackpeople.com" would be not racist if they technically allowed black people to sign up?
For sure, it's a stupid name. But it wasn't just the name people had a problem with, it was the whole idea of it.

...and that means what? That whitepeoplemeet is a good title?
It's blatant double standards. Why is one allowed but the other not?
I'm not sure what the point you're trying to make here is.
The discussion before, about the state of the counter terrorism program due to people's fears of being called racist is a good example.

I just wish there was an understanding that peple are likely to pay attention to issues that are perceived to hit close to home and that there wasn't such a desire to torpedo a movement because it's perceived to get more attention than another.

Let me know when you find that lamp and we can both give it a rub.
At that time I saw the UK as one of the most welcoming places for people of all colours and so didn't see why BLM and the protests were justified. I've been lucky enough to live in London all my life, and the only racism I encountered was from my partner's family who are Gujurati (and some police profiling but I'm not sure I class that as racism) and perhaps this made me ignorant to the experiences of other people. This was brought home to me especially in the last few months as I learned of the abuse my sister received in Ireland and in towns outside of London as well as a close friend during a recent night out in a predominantly white area.
 
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At that time I saw the UK as one of the most welcoming places for people of all colours and so didn't see why BLM and the protests were justified. I've been lucky enough to live in London all my life, and the only racism I encountered was from my partner's family who are Gujurati (and some police profiling but I'm not sure I class that as racism) and perhaps this made me ignorant to the experiences of other people. This was brought home to me especially in the last few months as I learned of the abuse my sister received in Ireland and in towns outside of London as well as a close friend during a recent night out in a predominantly white area.
'Kay. I've never drowned, so I don't understand why water safety is so emphasized. People should be more concerned about tiger maulings, since tigers are more prone to violence than water is. People who go to the zoo but also bathe, and the overlap is sure to be significant, are hypocrites.
 
'Kay. I've never drowned, so I don't understand why water safety is so emphasized. People should be more concerned about tiger maulings, since tigers are more prone to violence than water is. People who go to the zoo but also bathe, and the overlap is sure to be significant, are hypocrites.
Ehhh....it's more that I didn't see any signs of institutional racism either in the UK so saw no justification for the sheer size of the response to something that happened thousands of miles away.
 
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Ehhh....it's more that I didn't see any signs of institutional racism either in the UK so saw no justification for the sheer size of the response to something that happened thousands of miles away.
Years back, before we had a property with our own pool, my daughter and I had to leave the public pool early when another kid fell and hit his head hard on the deck, causing a bleed. They cited safety concerns, possibly related to the blood itself rather than the risk of another fall, but they didn't specify. He wasn't in the pool.

Still, nobody is talking about tiger maulings.
 



I didn't read the other two in high school, but I'm rather amused a book that was as far as 16 year old me could tell a scathing critique on what "white male power structures" can lead to was deemed outdated because it focused on them (months after a white male power structure tried to overthrow the United States government). Seems a bit like removing 1984 because it was focused too much on Apple being mean to Fortnite on something that seemed like an authoritarian Western-like government.
Banned books. A tale as old as time. Back in my day, we were required to read books from the banned books list.
 
There actually is a thread on the subject, by the way. It's relatively new and got buried, so this isn't to fault anyone for not posting in it.
Actually, there's something I ought to post in it...
 
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Years back, before we had a property with our own pool, my daughter and I had to leave the public pool early when another kid fell and hit his head hard on the deck, causing a bleed. They cited safety concerns, possibly related to the blood itself rather than the risk of another fall, but they didn't specify. He wasn't in the pool.

Still, nobody is talking about tiger maulings.
Well....I mean that is proportionate, but back then I wouldn't have thought the BLM movement was an adequate response to what we were facing in the UK. Now, especially after the Euros and those anecdotes, I'm reviewing my position.
 
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It's blatant double standards. Why is one allowed but the other not?
Both are allowed, but as to why people object to one and not the other?

Well pretty much the same reason we don't need straight pride marches.

Oh and the UK doesn't have a problem with racism? That's seriously deluded, but you keep to a sample size of one and ignore what has shown to be ineffective methods of policing based in racism.
 
Both are allowed, but as to why people object to one and not the other?

Well pretty much the same reason we don't need straight pride marches.
That's weird that it should only be allowed if there was a "need".

If white people were in a minority in a certain location, say California, should it then be allowed??

Oh and the UK doesn't have a problem with racism? That's seriously deluded, but you keep to a sample size of one and ignore what has shown to be ineffective methods of policing based in racism.
I think we do have one if you remember my posts in a different discussion we had recently.

If we are institutionally racist....I dunno.
 
That's weird that it should only be allowed if there was a "need".

If white people were in a minority in a certain location, say California, should it then be allowed??

That would be a strawman.

I think we do have one if you remember my posts in a different discussion we had recently.

If we are institutionally racist....I dunno.
You would see things like Windrush, or differential treatment by the police,...
 
That would be a strawman.
Isn't the issue that the white population is the majority and therefore doesn't need a white preference app?

Scaff
You would see things like Windrush, or differential treatment by the police,...

My post here is where I stand on it - it's still tricky to define and if we look at specific organisations we can definitely see discrimination but we also see so many success stories of POC individuals.
 
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Isn't the issue that the white population is the majority and therefore doesn't need a white preference app?
Not quite no, being in the majority isn't the key driver.

Being the 'default' is, and while they are often the same thing it not always the case.

As a rough analogy, English isn't the majority (native) language in the world, but it is the default language for a lot of applications, systems and industries, for example in aviation. Once that accounted for English becomes the default.

My post here is where I stand on it - it's still tricky to define and if we look at specific organisations we can definitely see discrimination but we also see so many success stories of POC individuals.
Outliers don't prove your point, and the wider view disproves it (and your link doesn't work).

 
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Not quite no, being in the majority isn't the key driver.

Being the 'default' is, and while they are often the same thing it not always the case.

As a rough analogy, English isn't the majority (native) language in the world, but it is the default language for a lot of applications, systems and industries, for example in aviation. Once that accounted for English becomes the default.
But why object to something that let's people filter that preference, thereby making their search for a mate easier? Who cares if they are the "default"? The post about California was showing that there are areas where they aren't the majority, and so may not be the majority of potential matches on dating apps meaning if you were looking for a white partner you would have to go through many more profiles of people you might not be attracted to, despite them being the "default".

Outliers don't prove your point, and the wider view disproves it (and your link doesn't work).

This was the post I meant to link to.

I feel like if a country is institutionally racist there's an active effort by the state to set up barriers and hold people back based on their race. It's also in how the state reacts when instances of racism are found out, and I do think we are good at coming up with solutions to racism as shown by the report you cited - we're just very bad at implementing them.
 
But why object to something that let's people filter that preference, thereby making their search for a mate easier? Who cares if they are the "default"? The post about California was showing that there are areas where they aren't the majority, and so may not be the majority of potential matches on dating apps meaning if you were looking for a white partner you would have to go through many more profiles of people you might not be attracted to, despite them being the "default".
You don't care that a minority enthnicity is the default?

In which case I don't think you are ever going to get it.


This was the post I meant to link to.

I feel like if a country is institutionally racist there's an active effort by the state to set up barriers and hold people back based on their race. It's also in how the state reacts when instances of racism are found out, and I do think we are good at coming up with solutions to racism as shown by the report you cited - we're just very bad at implementing them.
How the state reacts?

You mean by doubling down, then getting pressured into an enquiry (that they will do everything then can to make sure isn't independent) and then doing bugger all to implement it in a meaningful way.

Yep it's quite informative.

Even in linking to that post you bring up (as it's also in the same thread) the paper the government published claiming the UK was institutionally racist that was then condemned as utter ******** by people who had contributed to it.

When the state tries to fake a result that's quite telling, but your happy to give them a free pass.
 
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It's blatant double standards. Why is one allowed but the other not?

As @Scaff mentioned, they're both allowed. It's just that your "side" in this argument is the one complaining about the blackpeoplemeet site and the other "side" in the argument is complaining about the whitepeoplemeet site. To avoid hypocrisy, it would probably be best to dislike both of them. Alternatively, you could like both of them. But that's a little weird.


The discussion before, about the state of the counter terrorism program due to people's fears of being called racist is a good example.

Yes, jumping to the "racism" label could theoretically result in someone failing to report possible terrorism. Not calling someone "racist" can also encourage terrorism. Some terrorism is perpetrated on behalf of, for example, white supremacy, and labeling white supremacists as racist, publicly, is a good way to get people to take their actions seriously and potentially report some dangerous behavior. This is the case with all speech, too much noise and you lose the signal, too little noise and there's not enough signal. Either way people don't know the truth and may not act when they need to act.

Lots of bad things can happen when you try to get people to stop calling racism, transphobia, etc. Lots. So you're being very selective about where you're voicing concerns here.
 
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You don't care that a minority enthnicity is the default?

In which case I don't think you are ever going to get it.
I don't really understand how, in dating apps at least, it's a "default" ethnicity?

Are they more likely to get matches - possibly, but I don't see why that should preclude the ability to search for members of that ethnicity.
How the state reacts?

You mean by doubling down, then getting pressured into an enquiry (that they will do everything then can to make sure isn't independent) and then doing bugger all to implement it in a meaningful way.

Yep it's quite informative.

Even in linking to that post you bring up (as it's also in the same thread) the paper the government published claiming the UK was institutionally racist that was then condemned as utter ******** by people who had contributed to it.

When the state tries to fake a result that's quite telling, but your happy to give them a free pass.
That report was nonsense (I believe I showed evidence of that in the thread) but if the country was institutionally racist wouldn't every sector put ethnic minorities at a disadvantage, with the cause explicitly being because of their skin colour? Is systemic racism different to institutional?

As @Scaff mentioned, they're both allowed. It's just that your "side" in this argument is the one complaining about the blackpeoplemeet site and the other "side" in the argument is complaining about the whitepeoplemeet site. To avoid hypocrisy, it would probably be best to dislike both of them. Alternatively, you could like both of them. But that's a little weird.
I've said in the past they should either both be acceptable or unacceptable.

My use of "allowed" was a poor choice of word substituting for "socially acceptable".
Yes, jumping to the "racism" label could theoretically result in someone failing to report possible terrorism. Not calling someone "racist" can also encourage terrorism. Some terrorism is perpetrated on behalf of, for example, white supremacy, and labeling white supremacists as racist, publicly, is a good way to get people to take their actions seriously and potentially report some dangerous behavior. This is the case with all speech, too much noise and you lose the signal, too little noise and there's not enough signal. Either way people don't know the truth and may not act when they need to act.

Lots of bad things can happen when you try to get people to stop calling racism, transphobia, etc. Lots. So you're being very selective about where you're voicing concerns here.
Which is why I'm for balance, for the reasons you've highlighted. To me it seems the pendulum has swung so much that we are getting very quick to call people intolerant over opinions on complex issues.
 
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