POLL: Do econo-cars and small cars (think Lifan) have a place in gt6?

[Exorcet]

They do have a place. Every car does, though I wouldn't call them as important as sports cars. That's just an opinion however.

I do think that as physics (hopefully) improve, these cars will become more fun. In real life, I do enjoy driving on the road even if I'm not going terribly fast. Absolute speed isn't everything, not even in racing. All you need is competition.

Then there is also tuning. If we have tons of options, such as engine swap, drivetrain swap, and detailed race modifications, the Kei cars could become something else entirely. If you find 30 hp boxes boring, maybe they'll be fun with 250 hp and a high chance of rolling over in the corners. Or maybe you just want to laugh at Ferrari drivers as you lap them one more time.

 

[PAPPACLART]

Low powered Eco cars are great fun and make for some brilliant and close racing. A huge part of the appeal and success of the GT franchise was that it was possible to drive and race your Moms car.

Of course now PD should add a little more focus on the variety of slightly more powerful cars but most certainly the Eco cars should stay, GT would not be GT without them.

We have a whole class of car created from very low powered cars

Class K

107bhp
700kg
Comfort Softs
No aero

(cars as stock can not be more than 107bhp or weigh less than 700kg)​

 

[TheEnd35000vr]

Yes but supercars are clearly one of the most popular types of cars in any racing game, are the little kei cars popular enough to warrant spending 6 months of man hours making premium versions of them? That's what PD have to ask themselves and I do hope they have data to make that decision with.

For any other racing game - no. That just isn't feasible or logical rather in any sense. I say this merely because of something I referred to before:

The game is claimed to be The Real Driving Simulator

...So wouldn't it seem logical to fulfill that motto and put the work into it?

 

[Flaco13]

Kei Cars must stay. They are fun, as many in this thread have said. They are important products to the Japanese economy and affortable, therefore interesting to the Japanese people. Somehow it's their game (even if Japan isn't the market with highest sales). Why want to take that away from them?

Imagining Polyphony Digital was from London, UK and Kaz wasn't Kazunori Yamauchi but called Rajjeshwar Fernandes and we would call him Rajj... We had every generation Fiesta's and Nova's(Corsa's), tonns of Mini Cooper's in all kinds of specs, Triumph's, MG's Rovers, Lotus Talbot and Cortina etc. etc.

And the Japanese fans hate them and consider them boring. So for the 6th title they decide to get rid off all the cars I mentioned, If you liked those cars and was happy they gave it to you, how would you feel, then?

To me a GT is a GT if it includes all the varieties of automobile cultures across the globe. There will always be something missing to somebody. There will always be complaints. I could complain about a missing car or feature in GT5 or Forza4 all day long. But if PD was the way that so many here would want it to be? With Pagani's and Koenigsegg's and that range only, plus some classics (whatever classifies/unclassifies a car as such). IMHO I would stop buying it.

 

[Samus]

For any other racing game - no. That just isn't feasible or logical rather in any sense. I say this merely because of something I referred to before:



...So wouldn't it seem logical to fulfill that motto and put the work into it?

I don't really follow your logic. First of all that's just a marketing slogan and secondly I don't really see how a game that featured say only Ferrari's couldn't be considered a driving simulator?

 

[TheEnd35000vr]

I don't really follow your logic. First of all that's just a marketing slogan and secondly I don't really see how a game that featured say only Ferrari's couldn't be considered a driving simulator?

It may well be a marketing slogan, but I am suggesting that it should try to fulfill its actual name.

A game full of Ferrari's would be a Ferrari Simulator, shall we say. Don't really see how that's related to what I said though.

 

[zedextreme8177]

For those who say Kei Cars are uneventful and boring: try driving a stock Mazda Autozam AZ-1 around Autumn Ring reverse, then come back.

 

[avens]

The thread got derailed. It's about economic and undesirable small cars used for shopping, not small drivers cars that people dream about owning. G-wiz, not cappuccino or miata.

With that said, still no proof against my point (that people want sports cars instead of the nissan micra)

 

[300SRT8Fan]

The thread got derailed. It's about economic and undesirable small cars used for shopping, not small drivers cars that people dream about owning. G-wiz, not cappuccino or miata.

Yes, it has. I was talking about like you said, the g wiz, and priusus and leafs. Not awesome cars like the miata, cappucino and solctices that people would love to have!

 

[avens]

Just making sure there aren't 3 more pages about that issue

 

[Samus]

It may well be a marketing slogan, but I am suggesting that it should try to fulfill its actual name.

A game full of Ferrari's would be a Ferrari Simulator, shall we say. Don't really see how that's related to what I said though.

Because I don't see how driving simulator = a driving simulator of every type of vehicle known to man. Because by that logic they need tractors in GT to complete the driving simulation.

A game full of Ferrari's or even just full of sports cars can still be called a driving simulator because it's still simulating driving, I don't see how you can dispute that.

 

[analog]

With that said, still no proof against my point (that people want sports cars instead of the nissan micra)

Persisting your point despite the fact we won't know what the majority of GT-players actually want (didn't GT5 sell about 7 million copies?) and those wishlists you use as proof aren't necessarily representing that majority either, it might be but we simply don't know as all it shows is people's preferences on this forum who feel the need to post there.
However I don't doubt that given the choice between a car like a Micra and a sportscar (or any car) you like better (assuming they also don't like the Micra much) the majority (including me) would pick a car they'd like instead, I mean duh!

What you're conveniently forgetting (or simply ignore or don't understand/appreciate) is that the whole concept of GT, the basic idea behind the game (or at least the cars it includes) is to offer, or try to offer as much as they can, the whole spectrum of cars available in real life.
That's what appeals to a lot of people, they don't only expect exotics but also expect cars like the Micra to be there and I think most accept that an equal amount of time and dedication is spend on either a Veyron or a Micra.

If you only want to drive sportscars and supercars you can simply ignore all the other stuff you find boring or rubbish but you can't expect every one of those cars included to make place for whatever you want instead, GT wouldn't be GT anymore and it's the same game that whole majority requesting other cars bought and no doubt buys again regardless anyway.
Thank God they don't listen to the outspoken majority I'd say, if we assume the majority indeed wishes for different things does that make that the silent minority (or majority for all we know) just have to deal with it?

Numbers don't necessarily prove something is better, it might just be that most are wrong or simply shout harder so they're heard better.

 

[dr_slump]

The thread got derailed. It's about economic and undesirable small cars used for shopping, not small drivers cars that people dream about owning. G-wiz, not cappuccino or miata.

With that said, still no proof against my point (that people want sports cars instead of the nissan micra)

I'd like to have an Autozam as second or third car. Too awesome to not to love it!

So all these people saying they want the little Japanese boxes, is it because you actually drive them or just because you think it's a GT staple and they need to stay, even though you don't use them?

Cuteness?

So given the choice you guys would really prefer PD to model 10 Kei cars from scratch rather than 10 more desirable cars that more people have said they want?

There are bad kei cars, but there are also some great kei cars, so keep at least the great ones.

 

[TorqueHappenS08]

Low powered Eco cars are great fun and make for some brilliant and close racing. A huge part of the appeal and success of the GT franchise was that it was possible to drive and race your Moms car.

Of course now PD should add a little more focus on the variety of slightly more powerful cars but most certainly the Eco cars should stay, GT would not be GT without them.

We have a whole class of car created from very low powered cars

Class K

107bhp
700kg
Comfort Softs
No aero

(cars as stock can not be more than 107bhp or weigh less than 700kg)​

umm... isn't that the golf GTI? that is not a kei car also a miata?

 

[SagarisGTB]

The Cruze is quite a bit faster, or at least it would be based on its amount of horsepower relative to the Suzuki and the Mazda and how that would affect its performance on a conventional race track. And it's not a matter of being more fun and better cars. It's more of a matter of there being no need for such slow cars in a driving simulator game that can't deliver a realistic sense of speed.

The Swift Sport and Demio 1.5 both have better power-to-weight ratios than the petrol Cruzes. The Swift by quite a margin too, it has similar power to the Cruze with approximately 300 kg less bulk. Just an FYI.

No, I think all of those kei-cars, with the exception of the Cappuccino (believe or not, it's much more well-liked than any other kei-car in the game), could leave the series and nobody would bat an eye as long as they were replaced by cars that were actually on peoples' wishlists.

So all these people saying they want the little Japanese boxes, is it because you actually drive them or just because you think it's a GT staple and they need to stay, even though you don't use them?

Because if nobody/very few people are using them what is the point? Remember the vast majority of them are standard so if you do want them in GT6 and all of the cars are premium you/PD ARE choosing between them and other more desirable cars. They have to be remodeled from scratch, just as any other new car has to be.

So given the choice you guys would really prefer PD to model 10 Kei cars from scratch rather than 10 more desirable cars that more people have said they want?

I need to remind you that kei-cars are a very small part of (Premium) GT5, greatly outnumbered by sports coupe, GTs, hot hatches and supercars. And, yes, most of these kei-cars double as sports cars and are fun to drive for some of us. Why does it bother you that a small selection of a certain type of car that you don't like is in the game? I'm not bothered that there's muscle cars or pick-up trucks in the game that I don't care to drive. Muscle cars and pick-ups are no better suited to the track than kei-cars. But I'm happy that they (pick-ups) are in the game, despite having no intention to drive or race them, because others want them. Why can't you do the same?

And let's look at the (premium) kei-cars in GT5:
Suzuki Cappuccino (x2): Sports Car
Autozam AZ-1: Sports Car
Daihatsu Copen: Roadster, Sporty
Daihatsu OFC-1 Concept: Sports Car Concept
Mitsubishi i-Miev: Electric car, notable car
Suzuki Cervo SR: Economy hatch

So there's only 2 non-sports car kei-cars. 2! Less than one percent of premium GT5 cars.

Personally, I wish for two more:
Honda Beat: Sports Car
Alto Works Suzuki Sport Limited: Kei-car equivalent of 4WD hot hatch, fun (don't tell me otherwise, I have a blast with it every time around Tsukuba), GT mainstay

Clearly, GT doesn't have a kei-car problem, and you'd have to be very picky and intolerant to think it does.

 

[avens]

The Swift Sport and Demio 1.5 both have better power-to-weight ratios than the petrol Cruzes. The Swift by quite a margin too, it has similar power to the Cruze with approximately 300 kg less bulk. Just an FYI.

I need to remind you that kei-cars are a very small part of (Premium) GT5, greatly outnumbered by sports coupe, GTs, hot hatches and supercars. And, yes, most of these kei-cars double as sports cars and are fun to drive for some of us. Why does it bother you that a small selection of a certain type of car that you don't like is in the game? I'm not bothered that there's muscle cars or pick-up trucks in the game that I don't care to drive. Muscle cars and pick-ups are no better suited to the track than kei-cars. But I'm happy that they (pick-ups) are in the game, despite having no intention to drive or race them, because others want them. Why can't you do the same?

And let's look at the (premium) kei-cars in GT5:
Suzuki Cappuccino (x2): Sports Car
Autozam AZ-1: Sports Car
Daihatsu Copen: Roadster, Sporty
Daihatsu OFC-1 Concept: Sports Car Concept
Mitsubishi i-Miev: Electric car, notable car
Suzuki Cervo SR: Economy hatch

So there's only 2 non-sports car kei-cars. 2! Less than one percent of premium GT5 cars.

Personally, I wish for two more:
Honda Beat: Sports Car
Alto Works Suzuki Sport Limited: Kei-car equivalent of 4WD hot hatch, fun (don't tell me otherwise, I have a blast with it every time around Tsukuba), GT mainstay

Clearly, GT doesn't have a kei-car problem, and you'd have to be very picky and intolerant to think it does.

Again, the point is not about those small cars. The cars you listed are "awesome small cars" and not in the category of an undesirable one, for example a life step van. Something you know it's awful and that at the same time there will be absolutely 0 fun in using in a videogame (because it isn't strictly related); that you would regret or feel bad about needing to buy in real life and that in-game is the most boring experience ever. Coincidentally there are lots in GT5.

Lets say there's this finite resource called time, that keeps moving on and can't be stopped. At the same time there's a deadline to be met. Not only that, there's a second issue called money, that doesn't allow you to have infinite employees traveling around the world modelling cars.
With that said, PD needs to choose what cars to get into the game, because they simply can't add them all. It's about preferences. It's impossible to pick "both" as an answer, as analog somehow answered.
Sure you can balance the list a bit, but there will be a point in which adding an undesirable car means not modelling a super car, because of finite resources.

So, as far as we know the only source of car preferences of actual customers and that's publicly available are wishlists. There's nothing more that has a 1:1 relation, or that comes close and without speculation and theories.

Lets think for a second. Based on those and on what the forums have been saying for years, which one of these 2 choices will players prefer making it into premium status: a honda life step van, or a bugatti veyron?
I'm not comparing the mazda miata against it, because that's desirable car to have too yet it is small and somewhat underpowered, or against the daihatsu midget, because that's a fun car to "drive" in GT5 (though not an original idea because it was featured in best motoring) which is the second criteria and thus is desirable in-game nonetheless.

That's why I say "econo-cars" don't have a place in GT6. In the end adding a micra means not adding the br-z

 

[Davidies]

Yes. Even the smaller cars can also look pretty

But, yea. A race between 15 Ferrari's can be as exiting as driving 2 Priuses against each-other. I respect other people's opinions, so i won't argue anything they put against this.

Edit:

I guess it just depends on who you are: David, or Goliath.

Well, i only have one choice since my name is David...

 

[Flaco13]

Again, the point is not about those small cars. The cars you listed are "awesome small cars" and not in the category of an undesirable one, for example a life step van. Something you know it's awful and that there's absolutely 0 fun in using in a videogame; that you would regret or feel bad about needing to buy in real life. Coincidentally there are lots in GT5.

Lets say there's this finite resource called time, that keeps moving on and can't be stopped. At the same time there's a deadline to be met. Not only that, there's a second issue called money, that doesn't allow you to have infinite employees traveling around the world modelling cars.
With that said, PD needs to choose what cars to get into the game, because they simply can't add them all. It's about preferences. It's impossible to pick "both" as an answer, as analog somehow answered.
Sure you can balance the list a bit, but there will be a point in which adding an undesirable car means not modelling a super car, because of finite resources.

So, as far as we know the only source of car preferences of actual customers and that's publicly available are wishlists. There's nothing more that has a 1:1 relation, or that comes close and without speculation and theories.

Lets think for a second, based on those. Which one of these will players prefer making it into premium status: a honda life step van, or a bugatti veyron? I'm not comparing the mazda miata against it, because that's desirable too.

Well I had some major fun races in fully tuned Step Vans, can't say the same about the Veyron.
With the right tune I can make a Step Van a well handeling and fun to race with vehicle, again can't say the same about a Veyron.

So I'd take a premium StepVan over a Veyron anytime. Thank you

At least the Van TURNS!

 

[avens]

edited the post a bit btw just to make it funnier, and probably should have used a different example (but I always liked honda so had to mention the brand :/). Not that bad anyway, as most potential GT6 buyers prefer a veyron over it.

 

[SagarisGTB]

Again, the point is not about those small cars. The cars you listed are "awesome small cars" and not in the category of an undesirable one, for example a life step van. Something you know it's awful and that there's absolutely 0 fun in using in a videogame; that you would regret or feel bad about needing to buy in real life. Coincidentally there are lots in GT5.

Lets say there's this finite resource called time, that keeps moving on and can't be stopped. At the same time there's a deadline to be met. Not only that, there's a second issue called money, that doesn't allow you to have infinite employees traveling around the world modelling cars.
With that said, PD needs to choose what cars to get into the game, because they simply can't add them all. It's about preferences. It's impossible to pick "both" as an answer, as analog somehow answered.
Sure you can balance the list a bit, but there will be a point in which adding an undesirable car means not modelling a super car, because of finite resources.

So, as far as we know the only source of car preferences of actual customers and that's publicly available are wishlists. There's nothing more that has a 1:1 relation, or that comes close and without speculation and theories.

Lets think for a second, based on those. Which one of these will players prefer making it into premium status: a honda life step van, or a bugatti veyron? I'm not comparing the mazda miata against it, because that's desirable too.

You're missing the point and comparing apples to oranges. The "lots" of mundane kei-cars in GT5 are standards that are GT4 relics. These cars are from a different time, when PD didn't have a Lamborghini or Ferrari license, the time/cost for modeling cars was much lower, thus modeling local cars was relatively easier/cheaper. Gt4 was 8 years ago, a significant time gap.

I listed ALL of the premium GT5 kei-cars, which is the more relevant info, and 5/7 are sports cars. Is that a "kei-car problem"? Of course, nobody (or almost nobody) wants a multitude of economy kei-car hatches when there are many other sports cars to be had. Duh! But some of us ("we are the 5%", probably more) want to see most of the kei-car sports cars and maybe a very small selection of more ordinary ones. Which is precisely what GT5 has: 7 kei-cars, 5 sporty, 2 not. Personally, I wouldn't pull for more mundane kei-cars, but I would like PD to preserve what they have and maybe add a few sports car kei-cars if it's not too much trouble. That's it.

 

[avens]

Not all standard cars are going to be "premium" in GT6. I'd say that only 1/4 are getting "converted" (more like re-done completely), as they will always privilege making current cars instead.

Have to choose which standard cars make it and which don't, and I think lots of small and mundane cars lose that battle against "ricer" cars.

 

[Flaco13]

The question here is if K Cars and small cars should make it to the next game, standard and premium issues are irrelevant as we suggest there won't be such in GT6

 

[avens]

are you suggesting PD will be able to re-model and re-do 800cars, plus adding at least 300 new ones, in lets say 4 years (nov. 2014 release), when in 6 years they could only do 200?

 

[Flaco13]

are you suggesting PD will be able to re-model and re-do 800cars in lets say 4 years (nov. 2014 release), when in 6 years they could only do 200?

No I'm saying there will not be any 'premium' or 'standards'. Only equally modeled cars. As for how many there will be or wich ones they are re-modelling I'm in no position to judge. And it is not the point of the thread.

 

[avens]

Equally modeled cars = all premium.

To get a car into "premium" status means completely re-doing it, including taking pictures again, re-doing sound samples and all that. Can't do interiors and exterior models out of thin air. Not only that, also it has be made by their employees based on all that data that has to be re-gathered (if done properly), but even if they use their current information the second part is the one that by far takes the most time and resources to do, which is re-modeling, doing in-game handling and all that.

As I said, PD did 200 in 6 years, and you think all cars will be equal in GT6. What you are saying is PD will be able to do 800 "classic gt cars" (current standards) plus new cars to not get more behind its competition than what it already is, so 300 to say something, and all that without taking 20 years?

It's completely obvious lots of standards are not making it into premium status, at least for GT6. Have to choose which one. The answer is not both

 

[SagarisGTB]

Not all standard cars are going to be "premium" in GT6. I'd say that only 1/4 are getting "converted" (more like re-done completely), as they will always privilege making current cars instead.

No one said otherwise. As you say, standards would have to be re-done completely, which means they are barely more likely to be included as a GT6 premium than any other car (I say "barely" because of logistics reasons, if PD got access to/included a car in GT4, it's more likely to be included than a random non-gt car). Some standard cars will be re-done for GT6 (like a Supra RZ or MR2, hopefully), some will have premium versions of newer or different models (like instead of the '98 or '03 Audi S4 we had in GT4, we could be given the newest one) and some will be dropped completely. Though all of that has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

Have to choose which standard cars make it and which don't, and I think lots of small and mundane cars lose that battle against "ricer" cars.

What? I don't understand what you are saying.

 

[Flaco13]

Equally modeled cars = all premium.

To get a car into "premium" status means completely re-doing it, including re-modelling it, re-doing sound samples and all that. Can't do interiors and exterior models out of thin air. Not only that, also it has be made by their employees based on all that data that has to be re-gathered, and that second part is the one that takes the most time and resources to do.

As I said, PD did 200 in 6 years, and you think all cars will be equal in GT6. What you are saying is PD will be able to do 800 standards plus new cars to not get more behind its competition than what it already is, so 300 to say something, and all that without taking 20 years?

It's completely obvious lots of standards are not making it into premium status, at least for GT6.

No, all equall = all equal, there is no use of the word 'premium' anymore.

And I didn't say they would make 800+ cars, I said I'm not in the position to prophecise how many cars they would be able to make. Or what kinds of cars we would see in the next game. That is up to them. My core point was that I expect a great varity of cars. From Key Cars to Formula Racing Cars and everything in between.

 

[avens]

we will have to use that word until all of them have interiors, lol. I don't think there will be "more premium" cars than others though (as a third category above premium, platinum for example).

And to sagaris, I think that in quantity there will be more new "premium" (I know) cars than "standards" making it to premium status, no matter logistics. That's the correct business decision, otherwise GT6 would be "The real 80s driving simulator".

 

[SagarisGTB]

And to sagaris, I think there will be more new "premium" (I know) cars than "standards" making it to premium status. That's the correct business decision, otherwise GT6 would be "The real 80s driving simulator".

And I agree. But that has nothing to do with the general inclusion of Kei-cars. I think/hope GT6 will preserve the 7 premium kei-cars we have in GT5 and maybe add 2 or 3 more. Most of the older kei-cars from GT4 should, and probably will, be dropped. But kei-cars, as a segment, should stay, just with different cars. i.e. hopefully a predominantly sportscar selection of kei-cars with few mundane hatches.

 

[tpark103]

They have been in GT from the beginning so it would be weird without em. I personally have fun with them as these are the cars that MOST people drive to work and school and this gives them some WHAT IF ideas. IDK maybe I'm reaching a bit. :-) I like them. I feel the economy cars are a good Segway to the next level.