[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[squadops]

So who would do it and why?

 

[Johnnypenso]

So apparently a massive chunk of Registered Democrats have had their party affiliation changed to other within days of the primary making them ineligible to vote.

http://usuncut.com/politics/something-amiss-new-york/

Interesting, but to be accurate, the example given says that the change wasn't made within days, but several years ago. I'd also like to point out that both comparative photo sets are missing information required to draw a conclusion. In the first set the signatures are different but the party affiliation can't be seen in the top one. In the second one the person's name is missing from the top photo.

 

[squadops]

I'm going to skip that bit for now unless more information becomes available. The NY primary on the democratic side has been very interesting however so here is a piece I thought some of you might like to read. And what in the world is Bernie doing on Long Island?

I guess he's simply pandering to the young because that is a democratic jet set haven. Anyway enough of my nonsense, lets have the link

http://www.newyorker.com/news/john-cassidy/did-the-new-york-primary-campaign-change-anything

 

[Speedracer8218]

So apparently a massive chunk of Registered Democrats have had their party affiliation changed to other within days of the primary making them ineligible to vote.

http://usuncut.com/politics/something-amiss-new-york/

Not sure how legit this article is but the only thing I heard about voter ineligibity was those independents in NYC that did not file the proper paperwork in time to be able to vote as a democrat

 

[mustafur]

Not sure how legit this article is but the only thing I heard about voter ineligibity was those independents in NYC that did not file the proper paperwork in time to be able to vote as a democrat

Apparently 125k Voters have had the party affiliation changed in Brooklyn alone after the March 25 deadline to register.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-sanders-democratic-primary#comment-72687605

An Audit has been ordered by the City official.

 

[squadops]

Where is your theory on why @mustafur, or do you have one? I can't really think of one myself but I'm glad you brought it up, these things take a long time to sort out however so today is going to be today and the vote shall go on.

 

[Pillo-san]

To be fair you keep telling us how bad our country is yet when your mates want a hand up they come here, that my friend is a contradiction. Everyone comes to us when they want a hand up but yet somehow our form of government is evil in their eyes.

I have said this so many many times... Usa is not that bad, we have problems like you do, often because that our politicians want to have a mini USA here. Low tax, low wages for those not in right places and no less and less help to those in need because you know less tax is collected.

That is the American way. Like I said, why do rich hide their money in tax paradises like the recent panama scandal. Every one want as much money and as fast as possible and no sharing. But this does not work, we have to share, just a tiny winy bit for those in need. How many time have i not said that, and you call a system that steal freedom away. Why not answering all those questions I asked just some posts ago about who has more freedom. You want freedom, you better pay for it

 

[CodeRedR51]

And what in the world is Bernie doing on Long Island?

He grew up in that area...

 

[mustafur]

IMO with numbers like this they should redo the primary at a later date and make it open not closed, closed primaries shouldn't even exist anyway it's just voter suppression.

 

[Speedracer8218]

Apparently 125k Voters have had the party affiliation changed in Brooklyn alone after the March 25 deadline to register.

http://www.theguardian.com/us-news/...n-sanders-democratic-primary#comment-72687605

An Audit has been ordered by the City official.

Actually that's not correct. The article mentioned 125k people were removed mostly due to missing the deadline.

The only part I saw about what you were referring to is this

Other registered voters arrived at polling stations claiming they had met all the requirements to switch party affiliation in time, yet still found themselves missing from the list, prompting angry scenes that may further hamper hopes of reconciling the two wings of the Democratic party once the nomination is decided.

But there's no mention of how many there were

 

[mustafur]

Actually that's not correct. The article mentioned 125k people were removed mostly due to missing the deadline.

The only part I saw about what you were referring to is this

Other registered voters arrived at polling stations claiming they had met all the requirements to switch party affiliation in time, yet still found themselves missing from the list, prompting angry scenes that may further hamper hopes of reconciling the two wings of the Democratic party once the nomination is decided.

But there's no mention of how many there were

The problem is this is voters who are already part of that party, they got removed for not re registering and other have been changed without knowledge.

 

[squadops]

@Pillo-san I might get to those question but you won't like my responses, it seems to me we have some in common and some very much not. Main reason being I will never support big government so the rest of the squabble might be pointless, I'll at least look at the post.

@R1600Turbo I didn't realize that 👍 He's sure turned against his upbringing then I would have to think, anyway he's keeping with his demographic of the young which I personally would not bank on, he'd be better off in Harlem.

@mustafur There won't be a redo that's for sure. It is not voter suppression because it is the primary, everyone can vote in the general election for whomever they want. You could argue they are not being given a candidate to choose from in the general but it's our system and it's worked well for many years. Besides don't some states have open primaries? Oh those pesky states rights just keep popping up.

Closed primaries here and I was a registered dem for many years so I could vote in their primary instead of the rep or none. I should be registered indi now, maybe I need to check it out and make sure

 

[Pillo-san]

Do you have to switch party and stuff?

Is it not free to vote how you want, All I take with me is a Legitimation so people know that it is me and not someone else trying to cast a vote for me. That happens in the reception. Then I go inside a room pick what ballot with the right party association on it, pick one candidate on the ballot if I want or not, put it in a envelop and just so gently put it in the ballot box... easy peasy.. today i can vote for party x next time i can vote for party y... Is it a hassle to change a party affiliation in Usa?

and you can vote with your cellphone with a code send to you from the government or online with the same code. simple and no one knows how you voted.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I didn't realize that 👍 He's sure turned against his upbringing then I would have to think...

I don't think he would be there if he was.

...anyway he's keeping with his demographic of the young which I personally would not bank on, he'd be better off in Harlem.

What's that supposed to mean?

 

[mustafur]

so basically what @squadops is saying is a failed democracy is ok as long as the person you don't want in doesn't get the vote.

 

[squadops]

@Pillo-san https://votesmart.org/education/presidential-primary#.VxgG6dQwjUI this will show you how it works.

I don't think he would be there if he was.

Than you do not know the demographic of the place, I do however as I have family there.(toot toot, damn I hate that)

What's that supposed to mean?

Probably not what you are thinking, it's not safe to bank on the young because even when they support you they forget to vote. On the other hand Harlem has older people who do vote regularly and I simply believe he could gain more ground there, it's larger too iirc and always receptive to his kind of campaign. That is what that means.

so basically what @squadops is saying is a failed democracy is ok as long as the person you don't want in doesn't get the vote.

What are you talking about, the United States of America is not a democracy so how could it be a failing one?

 

[Pillo-san]

I will take a look at that link @squadops.

But the thing about why people are voting for Bernie Sanders is that he seems very sane and down to earth.

And, because he sounds and looks like an older version of Larry David, I kid you not. It probably is Larry David in disguise

 

[Speedracer8218]

The problem is this is voters who are already part of that party, they got removed for not re registering and other have been changed without knowledge.

If that's your opinion than I have nothing to say but I don't see anywhere on that article that backs up your point

 

[mustafur]

If that's your opinion than I have nothing to say but I don't see anywhere on that article that backups up your point

read again maybe?

Other registered voters arrived at polling stations claiming they had met all the requirements to switch party affiliation in time, yet still found themselves missing from the list, prompting angry scenes that may further hamper hopes of reconciling the two wings of the Democratic party once the nomination is decided.

and more

“I’m one of the many Brooklynites who found his name inexplicably taken off the rolls when I tried to vote,” said Andrew Prayzner of Bushwick. “Prior to today, I never felt the need to check my eligibility, as I have voted in Democratic primaries before as far back as when Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama were campaigning. I am outraged by this situation and feel that this really undermines the credibility of our government.”

Others expressed concern that even voting provisionally required a series of further hurdles.

“Ultimately, I was able to vote by affidavit … [and] though this experience was not exactly fun, I am significantly less worried about my vote than I am with the fact that poll workers remarked that this had been happening to long-registered voters all day long,” added another New Yorker, Emily Pelz. “What if they didn’t have a New York driver’s license on hand? What if they didn’t know their social security number by heart? Those voters were prevented from voting today.”

 

[Johnnypenso]

That is the American way. Like I said, why do rich hide their money in tax paradises like the recent panama scandal. Every one want as much money and as fast as possible and no sharing. But this does not work, we have to share, just a tiny winy bit for those in need. How many time have i not said that, and you call a system that steal freedom away. Why not answering all those questions I asked just some posts ago about who has more freedom. You want freedom, you better pay for it

No sharing huh?
American are the world's most charitable people
Interesting things to note:
- the top 1% make 1/3 of all charitable donations
- The wealthiest 1.4 percent of Americans are responsible for 86 percent of the charitable donations made at death
- Republicans (right wingers) are far more charitable than Democrats (left wingers)
- Americans out donate nations like Italy and Germany 20 to 1
- American charitable donations in 2014 were larger than the entire GDP of Denmark, Ireland, Finland, South Africa, Portugal, Greece and many more countries. Source

I'll bold that and repeat it so you can't miss it. Americans give away to charitable causes as much money as the entire economies of Denmark, Ireland, Finland, South Africa, Portugal, Greece and many more countries.

You were saying?

Do you have to switch party and stuff?

Is it not free to vote how you want, All I take with me is a Legitimation so people know that it is me and not someone else trying to cast a vote for me. That happens in the reception. Then I go inside a room pick what ballot with the right party association on it, pick one candidate on the ballot if I want or not, put it in a envelop and just so gently put it in the ballot box... easy peasy.. today i can vote for party x next time i can vote for party y... Is it a hassle to change a party affiliation in Usa?

and you can vote with your cellphone with a code send to you from the government or online with the same code. simple and no one knows how you voted.

These are primary elections used to select candidates to represent the party in the general election. You have to be registered as a party member to be able to vote for your candidate of choice. No such registration is necessary in any general election beyond ensuring your name is on the voting roll to begin with.

 

[mustafur]

These are primary elections used to select candidates to represent the party in the general election. You have to be registered as a party member to be able to vote for your candidate of choice. No such registration is necessary in any general election beyond ensuring your name is on the voting roll to begin with.

Only in Closed Primaries.

 

[Speedracer8218]

read again maybe?

Other registered voters arrived at polling stations claiming they had met all the requirements to switch party affiliation in time, yet still found themselves missing from the list, prompting angry scenes that may further hamper hopes of reconciling the two wings of the Democratic party once the nomination is decided.

and more

“I’m one of the many Brooklynites who found his name inexplicably taken off the rolls when I tried to vote,” said Andrew Prayzner of Bushwick. “Prior to today, I never felt the need to check my eligibility, as I have voted in Democratic primaries before as far back as when Hilary Clinton and Barack Obama were campaigning. I am outraged by this situation and feel that this really undermines the credibility of our government.”

Others expressed concern that even voting provisionally required a series of further hurdles.

“Ultimately, I was able to vote by affidavit … [and] though this experience was not exactly fun, I am significantly less worried about my vote than I am with the fact that poll workers remarked that this had been happening to long-registered voters all day long,” added another New Yorker, Emily Pelz. “What if they didn’t have a New York driver’s license on hand? What if they didn’t know their social security number by heart? Those voters were prevented from voting today.”

The overall vibe I got out of reading the whole article is that most of the people missed the deadline. You're quoting the few examples that you want to focus on

Anyways, I highly doubt the Sanders camp would stay quiet if voter fraud, as you're suggesting, was going on in NY. They seem frustrated the system is very strict but The Sanders campaign don't seem to think your point is anything to further investigate

 

[mustafur]

The overall vibe I got out of reading the whole article is that most of the people missed the deadline. You're quoting the few examples that you want to focus on

Anyways, I highly doubt the Sanders camp would stay quiet if voter fraud, as you're suggesting, was going on in NY. They seem frustrated the system is very strict but The Sanders campaign don't seem to think your point is anything to further investigate

You wanted me to show you something in that article that backed up what I was saying, don't move the goal posts because you didn't read the article you claimed you did.

I would wait on that voter fraud accusation coming from Bernie, the voting is still currently happening.

 

[Pillo-san]

No sharing huh?
American are the world's most charitable people
Interesting things to note:
- the top 1% make 1/3 of all charitable donations
- The wealthiest 1.4 percent of Americans are responsible for 86 percent of the charitable donations made at death
- Republicans (right wingers) are far more charitable than Democrats (left wingers)
- Americans out donate nations like Italy and Germany 20 to 1
- American charitable donations in 2014 were larger than the entire GDP of Denmark, Ireland, Finland, South Africa, Portugal, Greece and many more countries. Source

You were saying?

good good, but the thing is, that is just a fraction of what the rich would have to give in taxes...

And do the rich not get tax deduction for giving donations? hmm.
USA has like what 300 million citizens with like I have said the culture for having BIG companies that operates around the world, of course a nation like that can give stupendous amount of money.. but the thing is, it is nothing compared to how much those companies should really be giving back to just your country in taxes. You must pay taxes, why should a big company not be forced to pay the same amount of taxes like you? And people are giving so much why are there so many poor/homeless and yes people in jail that simply did not have money to pay for simple tickets. And of course those criminals that did awful things just to maybe get hands on a simple xbox or something stupid like that... Man, I am simply saying that your companies and government have to take just a bit more responsibility.

@squadops said: Main reason being I will never support big government. The thing is we see your country as a having a big government, they watch you everywhere and hold you in place. they simply are slacker about taxes and company regulations but everything else seems more restrictive. When looking at some clips I get the feeling that you are already in a freedom restricting society. 1984 seems not far off, remember when it was basically forbidden to even criticise George Bush. Man that made me actually afraid.

So lets hope the storm blows over and better times are ahead, because what happens in USA does certainly not stay in USA

 

[Johnnypenso]

good good, but the thing is, that is just a fraction of what the rich would have to give in taxes...

And do the rich not get tax deduction for giving donations? hmm.

So first you say that Americans don't give, then you find out they are some of the most generous people in the world and your answer is "tax deductions"? Could you be any more disingenous?

USA has like what 300 million citizens with like I have said the culture for having BIG companies that operates around the world, of course a nation like that can give stupendous amount of money.. but the thing is, it is nothing compared to how much those companies should really be giving back to just your country in taxes. You must pay taxes, why should a big company not be forced to pay the same amount of taxes like you? And people are giving so much why are there so many poor/homeless and yes people in jail that simply did not have money to pay for simple tickets. And of course those criminals that did awful things just to maybe get hands on a simple xbox or something stupid like that... Man, I am simply saying that your companies and government have to take just a bit more responsibility.

So American charitable giving is nothing compared to how much those companies should really be giving back to the country in taxes? Hmmm...

Out of the 34 countries in the OECD, America ranks first with a 39.1 percent corporate tax rate, compared to an OECD average of 24.1 percent. The OECD figure is what’s called the statutory rate, meaning the base rate applied to corporate profits.

So America is the most charitable and has the highest corporate tax rates out of the 34 countries in the OECD.

You were saying?

Let's face it. You are just making things up as you go along and you have zero basis in fact for any of your assertions.

 

[Speedracer8218]

You wanted me to show you something in that article that backed up what I was saying, don't move the goal posts because you didn't read the article you claimed you did.

I would wait on that voter fraud accusation coming from Bernie, the voting is still currently happening.

Look, you were trying to say that 125k New Yorkers were not able to vote because mysteriously their party affiliation was changed and that an investigation was ordered to look into how that happened. That was not what the article said! A lot of people were denied voting because they didn't change parties on time. The investigation is into why the process was so difficult to file paperwork on time and why were so many unaware of it.

Your original post had nothing concrete to back up its claim, so you come back with this article but it doesn't prove that a large chunk of New Yorkers were not able to vote although they did not change parties.

I don't have a clue where your goal posts are setup so how can I move them?

 

[Pillo-san]

@Johnnypenso, It is not about generosity. it is about how much a person/company should be taxed. yet again, why should a company pay less tax compared to you. you like they need to live and save for the future, and yet they pay a very small amount of what they make in profit.

Your link does not work

You just to not get it, big corporations do not pay in tax as they should do, you are using a fairly technical and IT-savy forum but you do not know of all the reports that reported that companies like Google/apple and others pay next to nill in taxes compared to what they earn? Maybe you turn a blind eye to all those reports.

We usually pay 1/3 of our income to taxes, over certain amount one pay 45% over another limit one pay 55%. It does not only goes to infrastructure,different agencies, healthcare for me and others but even for my own pension. Naturally the more you earn the better pension you get of course.. But why would a company be allowed to not pay their share like we do.

 

[Johnnypenso]

@Johnnypenso, It is not about generosity. it is about how much a person/company should be taxed. yet again, why should a company pay less tax compared to you. you like they need to live and save for the future, and yet they pay a very small amount of what they make in profit.

Your link does not work

You just to not get it, big corporations do not pay in tax as they should do, you are using a fairly technical and IT-savy forum but you do not know of all the reports that reported that companies like Google/apple and others pay next to nill in taxes compared to what they earn? Maybe you turn a blind eye to all those reports.

We usually pay 1/3 of my income to taxes, over certain amount one pay 45% over another limit one pay 55%. It does not go to infrastructure, and healtcare for me and other but even for my own pension, the more I earn the better pension of course.. So why would a company be allowed to not pay their share like we do.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfac...s-have-highest-corporate-tax-rate-free-world/

So when you were just making up things like Americans were stingy that was ok, but now that you find out they are some of the most generous people in the world, all of a sudden, "it's not about generousity"? I hope you have a telescope handy or you're going to lose sight of those goalposts.

The U.S. has some of the highest corporate taxes in the world. A few anecdotal examples of companies legally avoiding taxes don't change that. If the government wants to change the loopholes they can amend whatever legislation is allowing it to happen or maybe lower the corporate tax rates to the point where there is no incentive to seek foreign vehicles to relieve burdensome tax levels at home. Capital is mobile, big capital is even more mobile. If you continuously raise taxes you drive capital away into more tax friendly markets.

 

[Speedracer8218]

@Johnnypenso, It is not about generosity. it is about how much a person/company should be taxed. yet again, why should a company pay less tax compared to you. you like they need to live and save for the future, and yet they pay a very small amount of what they make in profit.

Your link does not work

You just to not get it, big corporations do not pay in tax as they should do, you are using a fairly technical and IT-savy forum but you do not know of all the reports that reported that companies like Google/apple and others pay next to nill in taxes compared to what they earn? Maybe you turn a blind eye to all those reports.

We usually pay 1/3 of our income to taxes, over certain amount one pay 45% over another limit one pay 55%. It does not only goes to infrastructure,different agencies, healthcare for me and others but even for my own pension. Naturally the more you earn the better pension you get of course.. But why would a company be allowed to not pay their share like we do.

Man... I thought the Darwin Award this year was a lock for that Dodge Aries fella but you are going right up my list buddy

 

[squadops]

@squadops said: Main reason being I will never support big government. The thing is we see your country as a having a big government, they watch you everywhere and hold you in place. they simply are slacker about taxes and company regulations but everything else seems more restrictive. When looking at some clips I get the feeling that you are already in a freedom restricting society. 1984 seems not far off, remember when it was basically forbidden to even criticise George Bush. Man that made me actually afraid.

It seems that post was deleted? Not sure about that, I was making a point about having some knowledge of the system before being allowed to vote, oh well.

I am agreeing with you, what we are seeing now is not what we should be seeing. I can't stand it but to give in and say 'ok, since the big gov is here we might as well make it a socialist one' is going in the wrong direction. We desperately need our federal government to go back to their main constitutional duties, we need the power of the states to be reinstated, we need less regulation and less taxation. With all of those things in mind we would be more than able to take care of our own.

Since when does a puffed up government own the rights to charity, since when has it been agreed upon that the people need to blindly follow them out of fear of reprisal for rejecting them? Don't ask me to give into big government because they are all a farce, give me the country back that I have learned to love.