[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

The party nominees are named. Now who do you support?

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While I'd love to see it, he kind of has a point. Why spend the time and money on something that won't gain you any credit against your actual opponent?

The only way it would help him is if it became a contest to see who can bash Hillary more, and I doubt Sanders would allow it to become that.
 
FoolKiller
While I'd love to see it, he kind of has a point. Why spend the time and money on something that won't gain you any credit against your actual opponent?

The only way it would help him is if it became a contest to see who can bash Hillary more, and I doubt Sanders would allow it to become that.
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The "Debate of the Century" might generate just enough excitement to throw the very tight California Democratic primary from Clinton to Sanders, and thus the convention and nomination would be thrown into chaos. Advantage Trump.
 
FoolKiller
While I'd love to see it, he kind of has a point. Why spend the time and money on something that won't gain you any credit against your actual opponent?
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The way it's being spun here is that Trump can't even face the #2 opponent... and that's in a campaign where he's telling people he can take the world on as POTUS.
 
TenEightyOne
The way it's being spun here is that Trump can't even face the #2 opponent... and that's in a campaign where he's telling people he can take the world on as POTUS.
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The whole world outside the US is in denial - they don't want him to be POTUS, and for good reason. He will put his finger in your eye and his straw in your malt. For the simple fact is that unlike previous presidents, he's not running as a globalist, not running for universal human rights or democracy, and not running for anything other than the explicit benefit of US citizens, a shocking and totally unwonted development in the cozy dreamworld of liberals and globalists. It's a damn good thing foreigners can't vote in the US election, otherwise there'd be no possible way for Trump's election. :lol:
 
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I think Trump is playing a game here, and that there will probably be a debate. He must know bailing now looks super weak as #DonaldDucksDebate begins to gain ground on Twitter. And if he really didn't want to debate he probably wouldn't have agreed to it. Everyone seemed to think the debate would be a win-win for Trump, but somehow he lost anyway?

I don't buy it. I think he's trying to prove how much demand there is so the networks will be willing to put up more cash. Not to mention, since Hillary said the debate wouldn't happen, it's in his best interest to prove her wrong.
 
dylansan
I think Trump is playing a game here, and that there will probably be a debate. He must know bailing now looks super weak as #DonaldDucksDebate begins to gain ground on Twitter. And if he really didn't want to debate he probably wouldn't have agreed to it. Everyone seemed to think the debate would be a win-win for Trump, but somehow he lost anyway?

I don't buy it. I think he's trying to prove how much demand there is so the networks will be willing to put up more cash. Not to mention, since Hillary said the debate wouldn't happen, it's in his best interest to prove her wrong.
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A couple of days from now no one will even remember this happened. His supporters are just going to shrug and say why debate the second place guy it's a waste of time. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose by debating Sanders. Advantage Trump by not debating.
 
Johnnypenso
A couple of days from now no one will even remember this happened. His supporters are just going to shrug and say why debate the second place guy it's a waste of time. He has nothing to gain and everything to lose by debating Sanders. Advantage Trump by not debating.
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His supporters are already saying that. Everyone else thinks he's a coward.

I was wrong about the hashtag. #ChickenTrump is the one that's now the top trending.

His mistake was agreeing to it even when he had an out (rumors that it was a joke), and only now changing his mind after several people offered more than what he demanded. It may be true that debating would be the wrong move, but that doesn't mean he's not a coward for refusing, and it doesn't mean it wasn't a stupid mistake to accept it yesterday. Had he rejected it outright, there would be absolutely no criticism. All the flak he's getting now is his own fault.

Edit: And even if he changes his mind again, as I suspected, he would look like he only changed his mind because of pressure, not because he wanted to. So he managed to take a win-win and turn it into a lose-lose. Frankly, I'm surprised.
 
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dylansan
His supporters are already saying that. Everyone else thinks he's a coward.

I was wrong about the hashtag. #ChickenTrump is the one that's now the top trending.

His mistake was agreeing to it even when he had an out (rumors that it was a joke), and only now changing his mind after several people offered more than what he demanded. It may be true that debating would be the wrong move, but that doesn't mean he's not a coward for refusing, and it doesn't mean it wasn't a stupid mistake to accept it yesterday. Had he rejected it outright, there would be absolutely no criticism. All the flak he's getting now is his own fault.

Edit: And even if he changes his mind again, as I suspected, he would look like he only changed his mind because of pressure, not because he wanted to. So he managed to take a win-win and turn it into a lose-lose. Frankly, I'm surprised.
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Where have you been the last year? Are we talking about the same Trump? The guy is Teflon to his supporters and his support is growing according to polls. The people who think he's a coward aren't going to vote for him anyway so why would he care? Didn't Hillary refuse to go on Fox News and debate Bernie recently? Is she a coward too? Given that her and Bernie are actually competing with each other it's arguably a much more important and relevant debate no? In a couple days something else will come along to titillate the fickle electorate and no one will remember this except some bitter Bernie supporters. Perhaps they'll dig up a picture of Trump with his black Lab from 1975 that he named Blackie and call him a racist again:lol:
 
He needs more than his die hard supporters in the general election. People thought this debate would be a good way to appeal to Bernie supporters, and IMO it would have been. Sanders' supporters are mad at Hillary for refusing and yes, they probably consider her a coward. This would have put give him some high ground in any future battles with Hillary, but now that's gone.

It may be true that no one will talk about this next week, but it doesn't mean no one will remember it.

I just don't see why Trump is now alienating people whose vote he needs. Hillary is dropping in the polls but that doesn't mean a Trump win is assured. There's plenty of undecideds out there and plenty of people who see Trump and Hillary as two evils. He should be doing whatever he can to paint himself as the lesser one.
 
dylansan
His supporters are already saying that. Everyone else thinks he's a coward.
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Yep.

dylansan
I was wrong about the hashtag. #ChickenTrump is the one that's now the top trending.
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I'm not a hashtagger but that doesn't surprise me.

dylansan
His mistake was agreeing to it...
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Yep. He's just afraid that Bernie will put him in his place. And I'm going to enjoy every minute of it should it happen.
 
R1600Turbo
I'm not a hashtagger but that doesn't surprise me.
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Me neither, but I tend to check what's trending whenever new events happen. It's at least a measure of public opinion, even if it is heavily skewed toward younger folks.
 
dylansan
He needs more than his die hard supporters in the general election. People thought this debate would be a good way to appeal to Bernie supporters, and IMO it would have been. Sanders' supporters are mad at Hillary for refusing and yes, they probably consider her a coward. This would have put give him some high ground in any future battles with Hillary, but now that's gone.

It may be true that no one will talk about this next week, but it doesn't mean no one will remember it.

I just don't see why Trump is now alienating people whose vote he needs. Hillary is dropping in the polls but that doesn't mean a Trump win is assured. There's plenty of undecideds out there and plenty of people who see Trump and Hillary as two evils. He should be doing whatever he can to paint himself as the lesser one.
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You really don't understand American politics if you think Trump could sway any Bernie supporters. And you really don't understand the Trump phenomenon if you think not debating Bernie is going to hurt him in any way. Much ado about nothing. #nobodycares will be trending tomorrow:lol:
 
I think you underestimate how much Sanders supporters hate Hillary. You're right that they won't become Trump fans, but will they vote for him to stop Hillary? Some will.

I'm not just guessing, either. On reddit, many Sanders supporters will go third party or for Hillary, but a signifigant number see Trump as better for avoiding establishment politics, and despite hating him as a person, trust him more in thw white house.

You act like every single voter has made up their mind already. Plenty of people are leaning one way or another and can be swayed by lots of things. Are ardent Bernie supporters flocking to Trump? No. Might people who lean Bernie and dislike Hillary be convinced that Trump isn't so bad? Possibly. If he tries.

I don't understand how you think the Trump effect applies past the primary. Sure he's picked up a huge following but more people hate him then like him. The only reason he has a chance in the general is because Hillary has abysmal approval, too. So he either needs to make headway with those who don't like him, or make Hillary look worse, both of which he had a chance to do with this debate.
 
Johnnypenso
You really don't understand American politics if you think Trump could sway any Bernie supporters. And you really don't understand the Trump phenomenon if you think not debating Bernie is going to hurt him in any way. Much ado about nothing. #nobodycares will be trending tomorrow:lol:
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Oh wow, Johnny, this is one of the first posts of yours I have to disagree with.

A large majority of Americans, on both sides, are truly pissed off at the federal government. They just want to send an agent of change (nuclear bomb) to change the Washington Establishment.

I think a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters aren't socialists, but they just oppose the current system. They don't understand left or right ideas. But it is uncool to be a bigoted Republican so they go for the Bern instead.

But the one thing they do know is that Clinton is part of that corrupt system, and Trump is not.

I think Trump will get a lot of the Sanders voters if Clinton is the nominee.

The Washington Post agrees.
 
Chrunch Houston
Oh wow, Johnny, this is one of the first posts of yours I have to disagree with.

A large majority of Americans, on both sides, are truly pissed off at the federal government. They just want to send an agent of change (nuclear bomb) to change the Washington Establishment.

I think a lot of Bernie Sanders supporters aren't socialists, but they just oppose the current system. They don't understand left or right ideas. But it is uncool to be a bigoted Republican so they go for the Bern instead.

But the one thing they do know is that Clinton is part of that corrupt system, and Trump is not.

I think Trump will get a lot of the Sanders voters if Clinton is the nominee.

The Washington Post agrees.
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It's entirely possible you're right but I don't see how a debate with Bernie is going to sway his people over to Trump's side. Bernie will be angry, Trump will mock him and make fun of him, call him, his wife, his supporters a few names. Bernie will be in the news later mocking and ridiculing Trump etc. I don't see how that is going to sway any voters. If anything it might make them more resolute never to vote for Trump.
 
Johnnypenso
It's entirely possible you're right but I don't see how a debate with Bernie is going to sway his people over to Trump's side. Bernie will be angry, Trump will mock him and make fun of him, call him, his wife, his supporters a few names. Bernie will be in the news later mocking and ridiculing Trump etc. I don't see how that is going to sway any voters. If anything it might make them more resolute never to vote for Trump.
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Trump is perfectly capable of having a civil, stately debate. It's not realy his style, but he has done it.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/10/politics/republican-debate-highlights/

Though it wasn't so much the debate itself but just his agreement to it. I had already seen Bernie supporters making comments like "I guess he has more character than Hillary" among others.

Honestly, I'm more concerned that he could have avoided all of this by rejecting the debate from the start. Now he's had to make up some excuse while basically calling Sanders a loser in his press release. Maybe he was never going to sway them, but I think more people than you realize are looking for any reason not to hate Trump, and this hasn't helped.

I think it's also possible that some Trump leaning folks (not full out supporters) may be surprised at his sudden lack of tact when playing the game has been his strong suit all along. Though I don't know how many will see it that way or care.
 
Johnnypenso
It's entirely possible you're right but I don't see how a debate with Bernie is going to sway his people over to Trump's side.
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He is hedging his potential voter base (those who are angry against the establishment). According to the RCP delegate counts, Hillary is only 72 delegates (OP is going to be updated after I post this) away from clinching the Democratic nomination, and there are going to be a lot of angry people who are thinking that party leaders are wanting business as usual (which in truth they are). Trump courting that wing of the Democrat party, assuming that Hillary isn't arrested for either her email scandal or her involvement in the money laundering scheme that is the Clinton Foundation, is actually a pretty smart move at the present moment.
 
I know what you're getting at, but despite his seeming carelessness and constant changing of opinions, this is the first time I can remember when it actually backfired in any way. Usually his remarks just draw media attention to his no-nonsense "tell it like it is" way of doing things, or his decisions make him look like he knows how to play the system. This time, well, plenty of Trump supporters were raving about how the debate was a genious move and a sign of his skill. Now, there's still plenty defending the cancellation, but I've seen plenty of them scratching their heads, wondering how he managed to ruin a perfect situation.
 
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dylansan
I know what you're getting at, but despite his seeming carelessness and constant changing of opinions, this is the first time I can remember when it actually backfired in any way. Usually his remarks just draw media attention to his no-nonsense "tell it like it is" way of doing things, or his decisions make him look like he knows how to play the system. This time, well, plenty of Trump supporters were raving about how the debate was a genious move and a sign of his skill. Now, there's still plenty defending the cancellation, but I've seen plenty of them scratching their heads, wondering how he managed to ruin a perfect situation.
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It's already got Bernie showing up on talk shows, talking trash and getting out of his element. An appearance on Bill Maher's show included an opening monologue in which Maher said:
For his part, in the show’s opening monologue, Mr. Maher urged his audience members to take to Twitter to “brand” Mr. Trump as a “whiny little bitch” who is scared to appear on set with Mr. Maher.
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He's got Bernie so mad now he's giving tacit approval to Maher calling Trump childish, gender prejudiced names. Very un-Bernie like.
 
I don't think a debate between Trump and Sanders would have any impact on the primaries and we are still in the primary phase of things, not having the debate after a few jokes about one proposed does nothing either. The crowd would be some sort of spectacle though, the networks would have to give them equal camera time for maximum rating effects.

When have there been cross party debates during the primaries?

We could put just about any clown in office at this point and it would not surprise me, it's a good thing the powers of the POTUS are much smaller than public perception and media claims. The idea that a president not in the establishment is going to make sweeping change is simply not possible in our system of government. Both Sanders and Trump are for great amounts of regulation and regardless of their intentions the results would be very similar, crooked large corporations as we now have, or perhaps crooked government ran business. I see no difference.
 
OP Update: Since there is a serious brewhaha over a third party this year, I have decided to include the Libertarian Party's candidate for President and VP this year since their party's convention is wrapping up today at Noon EST.
 
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