[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[killerjimbag]

He can find Mt. Everest on a map but he's never heard of Aleppo

Probably the thin air,got to his brain.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Very funny political ad:

 

[Danoff]

He can find Mt. Everest on a map but he's never heard of Aleppo

Mt. Everest is slightly more famous. It's neat that he has the New Mexico flag out up there... some real state pride for a state that is pretty sleepy. New Mexico has a ton of Native American reservations.

 

[Duke]

And if you had asked him what he thought about the situation in Syria, instead of "Aleppo", he would have responded instantly. Seriously, if that's the worst they can find to belittle Johnson with, he ought to be berking president.

 

[Danoff]

And if you had asked him what he thought about the situation in Syria, instead of "Aleppo", he would have responded instantly. Seriously, if that's the worst they can find to belittle Johnson with, he ought to be berking president.

It has been interesting though. I didn't know what Aleppo was when he "gaffed", and nobody I asked about it knew either. However, since then, the media have been using Aleppo instead of Syria routinely (you can see the spike in the term on google trends as soon as the Johnson "gaffe"). So now they've made sure that everyone has heard of it, and there is a revisionist impression that it's some kind of common knowledge that he was lacking. I don't know if that was consciously done by journalists or subconscious.

Meanwhile, Hillary refers to rights enumerated in the declaration of independence as enforceable against the actual bill of rights (which is a major gaffe), and trump referred to constitutional amendments that don't exist. But let's give them a pass because they're bat stuff crazy and must be elected.

 

[TenEightyOne]

It has been interesting though. I didn't know what Aleppo was when he "gaffed", and nobody I asked about it knew either. However, since then, the media have been using Aleppo instead of Syria routinely (you can see the spike in the term on google trends as soon as the Johnson "gaffe"). So now they've made sure that everyone has heard of it, and there is a revisionist impression that it's some kind of common knowledge that he was lacking. I don't know if that was consciously done by journalists or subconscious.

Then that must be down to US reporting pre-Johnson-"gaffe", the situation in Aleppo had been widely reported elsewhere. Certainly the friends who I discussed the "gaffe" with when it was reported thought he should have known about the city and its situation. That said, everyone makes mistakes under pressure particularly if they incorrectly process a question they've heard - that mistake certainly doesn't disqualify Johnson.

Meanwhile, Hillary refers to rights enumerated in the declaration of independence as enforceable against the actual bill of rights (which is a major gaffe), and trump referred to constitutional amendments that don't exist. But let's give them a pass because they're bat stuff crazy and must be elected.

I quoted Frankie Boyle somewhere in this thread a few months ago... it's like being on a bus that's being driven towards a cliff by a suicidal maniac with the only hope being that at any moment a crazy monkey might take the controls.

 

[huskeR32]

I didn't know what Aleppo was when he "gaffed", and nobody I asked about it knew either.

Agreed. The vast majority of Americans would speak of Syria as a whole, rather than as individual cities, and Johnson speaking in those same terms is more than adequate for his view on the situation to be communicated to the electorate.

While I'm not a huge fan of Johnson either way, the fact that this "gaffe" is the only reason most people would be able to provide for rejecting him as a candidate is a pretty sad commentary on how little most voters get to know the candidates they vote for (or in this case, don't vote for).

 

[Danoff]

Then that must be down to US reporting pre-Johnson-"gaffe", the situation in Aleppo had been widely reported elsewhere. Certainly the friends who I discussed the "gaffe" with when it was reported thought he should have known about the city and its situation. That said, everyone makes mistakes under pressure particularly if they incorrectly process a question they've heard - that mistake certainly doesn't disqualify Johnson.

It's not that the US was't reporting on the situation. It was all over the news, but it was a focus on Syria as a whole, not specific to Aleppo or any city.

If you check google trends for Aleppo and Syria you'll see Syria march along with tons of references, and Aleppo at zilch until the Johnson situation.

I quoted Frankie Boyle somewhere in this thread a few months ago... it's like being on a bus that's being driven towards a cliff by a suicidal maniac with the only hope being that at any moment a crazy monkey might take the controls.

+1

 

[Sanji Himura]

Then that must be down to US reporting pre-Johnson-"gaffe", the situation in Aleppo had been widely reported elsewhere. Certainly the friends who I discussed the "gaffe" with when it was reported thought he should have known about the city and its situation. That said, everyone makes mistakes under pressure particularly if they incorrectly process a question they've heard - that mistake certainly doesn't disqualify Johnson.

It certainly didn't disqualify him in my eyes, and I voted for him (early voting started in Texas three days ago). What might disqualify him is his desire to dismantle Medicare and Social Security, but I know that even if there is a remote chance that he gets elected, he will never be able to do it.

 

[Dotini]

A question for all:

If you judge a presidential candidate to be crazy, dangerous, misguided or wrong on the issues, would you agree that dirty tricks, fraud of any and all kinds including vote tampering, are justified in preventing that candidate from election to office?

 

[Darla Starch]

At that point, I stick names in a dartboard and hope for the best.

 

[BobK]

A question for all:

If you judge a presidential candidate to be crazy, dangerous, misguided or wrong on the issues, would you agree that dirty tricks, fraud of any and all kinds including vote tampering, are justified in preventing that candidate from election to office?

Absolutely not. Unfortunately people in a position to do that kind of thing seem to be of the opposite opinion.

 

[Sanji Himura]

Absolutely not. Unfortunately people in a position to do that kind of thing seem to be of the opposite opinion.

I can testify to that. In Arlington, people who voted early reported that they are getting their votes changed from anyone else to Hillary. Sadly, there is no paper ballot available during Early voting (at least in my precinct), and they can't throw out the machines without throwing out the vote that is stored with them.

 

[Duke]

A question for all:

If you judge a presidential candidate to be crazy, dangerous, misguided or wrong on the issues, would you agree that dirty tricks, fraud of any and all kinds including vote tampering, are justified in preventing that candidate from election to office?

NO. Comprehensively, no. Because no matter who they are, the president is still just one person. And despite numerous abuses of executive power over the last 15-20 years, a real catastrophe is many levels of checks and balances away. No matter which dangerous elitist egomaniac is elected, the US is not going to turn into Nazi Germany overnight.

It is absolutely not worth destroying the system completely just to keep The Donald or Shillary out of office.

 

[DDastardly00]

Ask yourself, do you really want Impeached, Rapist Bill anywhere near the Whitehouse again?

 

[huskeR32]

In Arlington, people who voted early reported that they are getting their votes changed from anyone else to Hillary.

http://www.snopes.com/texas-vote-switching/

--

Ask yourself, do you really want Impeached, Rapist Bill anywhere near the Whitehouse again?

What on earth does Bill Cosby have to do with anything?

 

[DDastardly00]

http://www.snopes.com/texas-vote-switching/

--



What on earth does Bill Cosby have to do with anything?

Don't be daft, they both have rape accusations against them.

 

[killerjimbag]

And if you had asked him what he thought about the situation in Syria, instead of "Aleppo", he would have responded instantly. Seriously, if that's the worst they can find to belittle Johnson with, he ought to be berking president.

Really?Has someone's head been stuck in the sand for the last 6 🤬 years? We have the worst mass exodus since WW2 and that's the best you got. Wow!

 

[McLaren]

I can testify to that. In Arlington, people who voted early reported that they are getting their votes changed from anyone else to Hillary. Sadly, there is no paper ballot available during Early voting (at least in my precinct), and they can't throw out the machines without throwing out the vote that is stored with them.

I've heard about this more than once in other areas of Texas recently, some folks commenting that a paper ballot is supposed to be available to those who want it; a couple folks on YT have tried to cite that they're legally obligated to have them as an option. Not sure about that, but the topic of "rigged" machines have been bringing up a lot of talk of preference for paper from what I'm reading.

 

[Danoff]

Really?Has someone's head been stuck in the sand for the last 6 🤬 years? We have the worst mass exodus since WW2 and that's the best you got. Wow!

Hypercritical. Blanking on the name of a city (not the situation, the name of the city) is somehow horrible for one candidate. Criminal behavior and disregard for human rights is somehow more tolerable from the others.

We really do have a strong 2-party bias in the US, and even foisted on us from folks outside the US.

 

[Dotini]

A question for all:

If you judge a presidential candidate to be crazy, dangerous, misguided or wrong on the issues, would you agree that dirty tricks, fraud of any and all kinds including vote tampering, are justified in preventing that candidate from election to office?

Absolutely not. Unfortunately people in a position to do that kind of thing seem to be of the opposite opinion.

I have read The Art of War by Sun Tzu and The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli. From my web research, these two books are on - or at the top - of all top ten lists of most influential and most important books ever published. These authors seem to espouse the ideas that the ends justify the means, that might makes right, and that politics is an extension of war. I imagine that almost every successful politician and executive leader in the world has read one or both of these works in translation. And so have their acolytes.

Therefore I must conclude that the answer to my question is undoubtedly "yes" - by "those in a position to do that kind of thing" (i.e., professional politicians) as you say, BobK.

As in some notable US elections in the past, the present election may well be determined by those who play rough (i.e., professionally). I recognize and accept that as reality, as the system. And as an experienced racer, I also accept that nice guys finish last.

 

[Duke]

Really?Has someone's head been stuck in the sand for the last 6 🤬 years? We have the worst mass exodus since WW2 and that's the best you got. Wow!

Because he's thinking in terms of a whole country that's been affected, rather than in terms of a single city within that country? Wow, that's a small thing for you to be so angry about. There has been fighting elsewhere in Syria - I can only assume that you're aware of that.

How on earth did you manage to interpret my post to mean that Johnson was not aware of the Syrian situation, since I was pretty much saying the exact opposite?

 

[DDastardly00]

http://www.snopes.com/texas-vote-switching

First of all, Snopes is not the God of truth, they don't really do any 'actual research'. It has been inaccurate many times and that will continue. Second of all, it's not just one instance like Snopes claims, there have been several complaints about this:

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/2016...inton-elections-officials-say-just-user-error

Which even prompted Texas Gov Greg Abbott to post this statement on Facebook:

Greg Abbott
on Tuesday
TEXANS: On a voting machine, check your confirmation screen before casting your vote. If you select a straight-party vote but then highlight the name of a candidate and press ENTER, you could remove the selection for that candidate. Make sure all of your selections are correct before hitting the button to cast a ballot. You can test your county’s voting system here before voting: http://www.votetexas.gov/voting/how

Call 1-800-252-VOTE to report any irregularities


About Snopes getting Snoped:

http://accuracyinpolitics.blogspot.com/2013/05/snopes-got-snoped.html

 

[TenEightyOne]

It's not that the US was't reporting on the situation. It was all over the news, but it was a focus on Syria as a whole, not specific to Aleppo or any city.

Fair enough, that would go some way to explaining why Aleppo wasn't on his radar (so to speak).

If you check google trends for Aleppo and Syria you'll see Syria march along with tons of references, and Aleppo at zilch until the Johnson situation.

I disagree, but actually that probably isn't relevant as people generally search for things they don't know about rather than things about which they feel the news has informed them adequately.

Still, it may be that the reason other parts of the world (like Britain) see it as such a gaffe is that we've been seeing reportage about Aleppo for quite a long time. It could be that in the context of questioning Johnson for the American media this was something of a trick question.

...Snopes...they don't really do any 'actual research'

Big claim, source required.

 

[McLaren]

About Snopes getting Snoped:

http://accuracyinpolitics.blogspot.com/2013/05/snopes-got-snoped.html

I begun question their credibility once I saw every single political post just happens to be covered by the same woman. I have seen some articles claim she is a left-winger, but nothing concrete in them. But, having 1 person seemingly cover everything does lessen the chance of neutral viewpoints.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

First of all, Snopes is not the God of truth, they don't really do any 'actual research'. It has been inaccurate many times and that will continue.

Pointing to a random blog that itself offers no evidence of its claims, is probably the worst possible way you could have made this point.

 

[TenEightyOne]

I begun question their credibility once I saw every single political post just happens to be covered by the same woman. I have seen some articles claim she is a left-winger, but nothing concrete in them. But, having 1 person seemingly cover everything does lessen the chance of neutral viewpoints.

Depends on if you follow that AccuracyInPolitics site's advice;

Use them only to lead you to solid references where you can read their sources for yourself.

That's how I found out that their own article was ironic bollocks.

 

[Biggles]

I haven't seen the entire interview, but the "Aleppo" thing seemed suspiciously like a "gotcha" question. However, Johnson really didn't seem to know what "Aleppo" referred to, which highlights a lack of seriousness on his part ... certainly no worse than Trump, though, who doesn't seem to feel the need to prepare, presumably because (in his own mind) he's so brilliant he doesn't need to.

I have read The Art of War by Sun Tzu and The Prince by Niccolo Machiavelli. From my web research, these two books are on - or at the top - of all top ten lists of most influential and most important books ever published. These authors seem to espouse the ideas that the ends justify the means, that might makes right, and that politics is an extension of war. I imagine that almost every successful politician and executive leader in the world has read one or both of these works in translation.

LOL. Yes they are important books, but so are the Bible, the Communist Manifesto, The Republic, On the Origins of Species, The Wealth of Nations, A Vindication of the Rights of Women etc. etc. which put forward many different points of view regarding human life & social interaction.

I can testify to that. In Arlington, people who voted early reported that they are getting their votes changed from anyone else to Hillary. Sadly, there is no paper ballot available during Early voting (at least in my precinct), and they can't throw out the machines without throwing out the vote that is stored with them.

Really? Or another crack-pot conspiracy theory?

In Canada, I have always voted by putting a tick in a box next to a name (or names) on a piece of paper. I then fold the piece of paper & put it into the ballot box. The process is overseen by representatives from each party, who also are present during the physical counting of the ballots. It seems to work perfectly well & quite quickly, as each polling place only has to tabulate its own totals. I do understand, however, that a complicating factor may be the presence in US elections of many voting questions on the same ballot.

 

[DK]

What on earth does Bill Cosby have to do with anything?

He chats with Trump in locker rooms, of course.

 

[Dotini]

I begun question their credibility once I saw every single political post just happens to be covered by the same woman. I have seen some articles claim she is a left-winger, but nothing concrete in them. But, having 1 person seemingly cover everything does lessen the chance of neutral viewpoints.

That woman is Barbara. Barbara and David Mikkelson have run snopes as an online urban legend debunking operation since 1995. They appear to do all their own research which, for two people answering thousands of questions, is pretty thorough.
http://www.factcheck.org/2009/04/snopescom/