[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

The party nominees are named. Now who do you support?


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That's a big question mark which we'll find out in the next 4 years, but if all of this (the extreme remarks to grab attention, and the way he was able to downsize all of his strongest opponents), wasn't something impulsive which happened to work out but an actual strategy, he's a bloody master strategist IMO :D

Stems me hopeful that he knows what he's doing, and now that he's elected he'll start sounding way more rational on all fronts.
So his master plan may have been to lie his way into office?

That's going to go down well with his core.
 
I think this man puts it best, never seen in my life :sly:

But seriously I tend to see Matthews (though I don't like him much) as someone that really does say it like it is when his party loses. Madow doesn't know what a loss is...which if so will be the issue during this restructure for the democrats.



The last bit is what I agree most on with, and that is people weren't voting based on racism or any other standard term one can throw for hate as a cop out. No, as I've been saying people voted and turned against Hillary cause they wanted something that wasn't typical politics. Same reason they voted Obama in, and why there was a great rejection of her and why Trump despite the narrative of media got various groups of vote.
 
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are the current protests promoted by an organized political movement? Is there even an organized political movement outside the two major and two minor parties and some cause-oriented grassroot movement such as the whole #BLM shindig?
On the left? Other than the Eugene anarchists, Earth Liberation Front and Animal Liberation Front, I don't know. I've been out of the protest and rebellion scene for loooong time.

I knew there was something I missed in my first reply: George Soros.

https://www.rt.com/usa/366579-soros-orgs-driving-trump-protests/

Soros-fronted orgs among groups calling for anti-Trump protests (VIDEO)
Published time: 12 Nov, 2016 01:32

A Donald Trump pinata is burned by people protesting the election of Republican Donald Trump as the president of the United States in downtown Los Angeles, California U.S., November 9, 2016. © Mario Anzuoni
US Elections 2016
Among Wikileaks’ Podesta emails was a strategy document involving the Soros-supported MoveOn.org and grassroots organizing and funding.

MoveOn.org issued a press release on Wednesday afternoon about the protests where they wrote “hundreds of Americans, dozens of organizations to gather peacefully outside the White House and in cities and towns nationwide to take a continued stand against misogyny, racism, Islamophobia, and xenophobia.”
 
Currently embroiled in a discussion on Facebook about the rioting where I'm being told that people can't be racist towards whites and apparently my "White Privilege" prevents me from seeing that the anti-Trump rioting and violence is justified.

Give me strength...
 
Currently embroiled in a discussion on Facebook about the rioting where I'm being told that people can't be racist towards whites and apparently my "White Privilege" prevents me from seeing that the anti-Trump rioting and violence is justified.

Give me strength...

Shots fired at an anti-Trump protest, with one protester injured:

http://mobile.abc.net.au/news/2016-...red-at-anti-trump-protest-in-portland/8020630

It's ok because they voted Trump so they deserve it. :D
 
Not at all. It's just that everyone has been criticising the political left for violent rioting, but it's not isolated to the left.

I was being sarcastic because of the discussion I'm stuck in on Facebook. But yes, it's happening on both sides, but I'm beginning to see a lot of people on the left either denying that it (anti-Trump protests and violence) is happening or that if it is it's ok because they're privileged.
 
There's an awful lot of talk about popular vote again. I wonder if people realize the numbers would be awfully different if they picked presidents off popular vote and the college system was removed. A conservative in California might actually bother to vote because their vote would matter now for example.
 
Not at all. It's just that everyone has been criticising the political left for violent rioting, but it's not isolated to the left.

What does your link have to do with the political right? It says the suspect is a black male, which statistically won't be a Trump supporter. Unless I'm mistaking the point you're trying to make.
 
What does your link have to do with the political right? It says the suspect is a black male, which statistically won't be a Trump supporter. Unless I'm mistaking the point you're trying to make.
90% odds it's a Hillary supporter. 👍

Because the balance of power can shift to the conservatives. Roe vs. Wade was not a unanimous decision - it only just scraped through. The appointment of a pro-life judge could see the decision overturned if it were challenged, and/or possibly exert influence over other judges during deliberations and persuade them to change their vote.
Red Herring. The Supreme Court has leaned conservative since the 70's when Nixon appointed 4 strong conservatives to the bench and it has leaned conservative ever since. Trump appointing more conservatives to the bench will simply continue the trend of the last 40 years.
Supreme Court.JPG
 
There's an awful lot of talk about popular vote again. I wonder if people realize the numbers would be awfully different if they picked presidents off popular vote and the college system was removed. A conservative in California might actually bother to vote because their vote would matter now for example.

Which is one more reason the electoral college system coupled with the majoritarian electoral system most States use to determine their voters doesn't work - it reduces electoral turnout significantly.

Of course, abandoning the electoral college, "winner takes it all" system would turn the current situation which sees an advantage of rural areas over cities turned on its head. And I believe the current problem with American politics can't be solved unless the US abandon presidentialism in favor of directorialism (which is arguably the best form of republican government for culturally and economically diverse federations). But you won't, because of two reasons:

  • a strong belief that the Constitution (and not its spirit) is sacred and the Founding Fathers were always right, nevermind the fact that their United States were a rural country of 13 states and 3 million inhabitants, and for them the telegraph would be a wonderous technology;
  • the role of the President as Commander-in-Chief of the armed forces, and therefore of the strategic nuclear arsenal. Under a directorial system, each and every military intervention of the US would require months of discussion in Congress, and the current nuclear doctrine of the US would be severely undermined by the lack of a single individual responsible for the deployment of the nuclear arsenal.
A more conventional parliamentary system with a proportional electoral system would likely prove less problematic; however, even with the blandest form of premiership possible (that of a PM which is a primus inter pares) said system would soon devolve in a pseudo-presidential system unless the US party system and political culture quickly changed and became more fragmented and polarized (something I don't see happening very easily). And its implementation would be as difficult to stomach for the Constitution-adoring crowd, if not actually worse ("if the Founding Fathers wanted a parliamentary sytem they would've stuck with the Crown!").

All of this means that you are essentially stuck with a political system which will always make half of the population feel unrepresented because of the reverence by which you treat people who died some two centuries ago, and because you're stuck with a doomsday-in-a-bottle you don't even need.

Sounding more rational equals lying now?

Using a bit of realpolitik and telling a couple of white lies to gain more votes and win an election is an acceptable tactic, although surely not a morally endorsable one. But basing your entire campaign on promises which you are reneging on not a week after you've won the elections, and when you are not even the President yet? Less so.

Of course, Trump being a bit more rational than he was during his campaign is something we should all be glad of. However, something tells me that a part of his electorate - one famous for owning plenty of firearms and believing they can win a fight against the US Gov't - may not be as happy as we are now. I'll let you infer what the possible consequences of their dissatisfaction with Trump's presidency may be.

The Donald played a dangerous gambit, making promises he can't keep to people who don't like being lied too. And as the legend of Faust teaches us, making deals with the devil is usually not the brightest idea that can cross one's mind.
 
Some things I've learnt from the regressive left of Facebook this morning:

The rioters aren't actually rioting and if they were they're not affiliated with the left and don't represent their ideals.

Everyone who voted for Trump is racist either officially or internally. None of them ever considered his policies on the economy, or the environment, or education, or foreign policy, or defense. It's all about making America white again.

Hillary is not left of center.

You can't be racist towards white people because they not oppressed anywhere ever.

All white people are accountable for slavery because white privilege.

Trump wants to go back to Jim Crow.

Non-violent protest during the Civil Rights Movement was encouraged and enforced by the establishment because it made them easier to ignore.

Violence by the Black Panthers and BLM is justified because they're being oppressed by the white man.

Liberalism is the only political ideology that encourages critical thinking.

Minority Trump supporters hate themselves.

83% of black women voted against Trump, so it's a white problem, which apparently is not a racist statement.

Racism and prejudice are unrelated terms.

Women who voted for Trump are self-hating and have violent privilege. (According that dugong of a woman Lena Dunham)

All black people experience PTSD (Post-Traumatic Slavery Disorder), which is genetic.



How can anyone be so stupid?
 
Some things I've learnt from the regressive left of Facebook this morning:

The rioters aren't actually rioting and if they were they're not affiliated with the left and don't represent their ideals.

Everyone who voted for Trump is racist either officially or internally. None of them ever considered his policies on the economy, or the environment, or education, or foreign policy, or defense. It's all about making America white again.

Hillary is not left of center.

You can't be racist towards white people because they not oppressed anywhere ever.

All white people are accountable for slavery because white privilege.

Trump wants to go back to Jim Crow.

Non-violent protest during the Civil Rights Movement was encouraged and enforced by the establishment because it made them easier to ignore.

Violence by the Black Panthers and BLM is justified because they're being oppressed by the white man.

Liberalism is the only political ideology that encourages critical thinking.

Minority Trump supporters hate themselves.

83% of black women voted against Trump, so it's a white problem, which apparently is not a racist statement.

Racism and prejudice are unrelated terms.

Women who voted for Trump are self-hating and have violent privilege. (According that dugong of a woman Lena Dunham)

All black people experience PTSD (Post-Traumatic Slavery Disorder), which is genetic.



How can anyone be so stupid?
I'm going through the same thing. I'm being told I'm the reason there is a racial divide in America.
I tried to explain it's like a sleeping dog, you leave it alone.
I tried to explain to him the left and the media created this racial divide. Even agreeing with him that racism was around the whole time, but the fear mongering and the creation of BLM by the left and taking the Confederate flag away was the perfect combination to create anger on both sides.
Of course I'm stupid and don't know anything about the history of the South by his friends opinion.
I'm not going to drop him as a friend, we've been friends since boy scouts.
But I feel like it's a lost cause to try after the responses from his and my friends.
 
I'm going through the same thing. I'm being told I'm the reason there is a racial divide in America.
I tried to explain it's like a sleeping dog, you leave it alone.
I tried to explain to him the left and the media created this racial divide. Even agreeing with him that racism was around the whole time, but the fear mongering and the creation of BLM by the left and taking the Confederate flag away was the perfect combination to create anger on both sides.
Of course I'm stupid and don't know anything about the history of the South by his friends opinion.
I'm not going to drop him as a friend, we've been friends since boy scouts.
But I feel like it's a lost cause to try after the responses from his and my friends.

I'm sick and tired of being told I'm racist and sexist by virtue of the fact that I'm white and male. It's as if these people have no social skills, etiquette, reasoning skills, logic or common sense. Everything has to be viewed through the lens of your race, sex, orientation, nationality or religion.

I'm not even a Trump supporter! That's the best bit.
 
Some things I've learnt from the regressive left of Facebook this morning:

The rioters aren't actually rioting and if they were they're not affiliated with the left and don't represent their ideals.

Everyone who voted for Trump is racist either officially or internally. None of them ever considered his policies on the economy, or the environment, or education, or foreign policy, or defense. It's all about making America white again.

Hillary is not left of center.

You can't be racist towards white people because they not oppressed anywhere ever.

All white people are accountable for slavery because white privilege.

Trump wants to go back to Jim Crow.

Non-violent protest during the Civil Rights Movement was encouraged and enforced by the establishment because it made them easier to ignore.

Violence by the Black Panthers and BLM is justified because they're being oppressed by the white man.

Liberalism is the only political ideology that encourages critical thinking.

Minority Trump supporters hate themselves.

83% of black women voted against Trump, so it's a white problem, which apparently is not a racist statement.

Racism and prejudice are unrelated terms.

Women who voted for Trump are self-hating and have violent privilege. (According that dugong of a woman Lena Dunham)

All black people experience PTSD (Post-Traumatic Slavery Disorder), which is genetic.



How can anyone be so stupid?
To be honest it's as stupid as what has come out of the extremes of the other side as well.

Neither side are blameless in what is occurring right now.

The only one of those I would without a doubt agree with is that Hillary isn't left of centre.

Then again in the US she may well be, but on a global scale she certainly isn't.
 
Supreme Court.JPG

That's got to be the most impressively ... artistic ... political graph I've ever seen!

I've got a modest proposal on cross-border trade:

Huske gets to move up to the Socialist Republic of Alberta while ...

JohnnyP crosses the river to the the Republican stronghold of Michigan.

Everyone's happy!

Glad I could help. :)
 
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To be honest it's as stupid as what has come out of the extremes of the other side as well.

Neither side are blameless in what is occurring right now.

I think the main problem is that the far left's stupidity is seen as a lot more mainstream and socially acceptable than the far right. It's also part of the reason why I think the polls in Brexit and the US election were wrong, people are less willing to risk being associated with the far right than they are the far left because it's seen as "progressive" and "on the right side of history". Just my speculation anyway, I can't read minds :P
 
I think the main problem is that the far left's stupidity is seen as a lot more mainstream and socially acceptable than the far right. It's also part of the reason why I think the polls in Brexit and the US election were wrong, people are less willing to risk being associated with the far right than they are the far left because it's seen as "progressive" and "on the right side of history". Just my speculation anyway, I can't read minds :P
Maybe, maybe not.

I personally think that people tend to exaggerate both what polls are saying and also what the actual end result is.

Brexit is a good example, the polls were actually always very tight and for the most part within the margins of error (a factor most ignore) and the end result was not the whitewash that the oft used 'will of the people' phrase implies (as 48 / 52 is certainly not a whitewash). However 'the will of a little over half the people, or around a quarter when you take into account those that couldn't be bothered to vote' doesn't have the same ring to it.
 
View attachment 605871

That's got to be the most impressively ... artistic ... political graph I've ever seen!

I've got a modest proposal on cross-border trade:

Huske gets to move up to the Socialist Republic of Alberta while ...

JohnnyP crosses the river to the the Republican stronghold of Michigan.

Everyone's happy!

Glad I could help. :)
Alberta is on my radar. I'm not sure if it's big enough for the two of us:sly:. I'll take Calgary, you take Edmonton:mischievous:

I think the main problem is that the far left's stupidity is seen as a lot more mainstream and socially acceptable than the far right. It's also part of the reason why I think the polls in Brexit and the US election were wrong, people are less willing to risk being associated with the far right than they are the far left because it's seen as "progressive" and "on the right side of history". Just my speculation anyway, I can't read minds :P
I was listening to pollster Robert Cahaly on the radio a couple of days ago, explaining how he got it right. He said his key question was something along the lines of, "How do you think your neighbour is going to vote". He figured that by taking it to a third party, he would remove the inherent bias against personal embarassment that might come from such polarizing choices. He said that when he asked that question, a clear trend emerged towards slightly higher support for Trump and he factored that into his call for a Trump win.

EDIT: Just found this article on Breitbart, from before the election, where he predicted 48.4% to 46.5% in Pennsylvania for Trump. Actual results - 48.8% vs. 47.6% for Trump.
http://www.breitbart.com/2016-presidential-race/2016/11/07/poll-trump-michigan-pennsylvania/

Oddly ironic that the much decried Breitbart News was one of the few news sources that gave any credence to the man that accurately predicted the election results:lol:

In B4 all the Hurr Durr Breitbart comments:sly:
 
I was listening to pollster Robert Cahaly on the radio a couple of days ago, explaining how he got it right. He said his key question was something along the lines of, "How do you think your neighbour is going to vote".

Wait. Other analysts go to people, ask "who are you going to vote for", and make predictions based on that?

Oh, god. It's even worse than I thought. :lol:
 
If real wages decline then the lower inflation number is of no relief to the consumer as their spending capacity is still affected.

The net result is the lower inflation number is not what is experienced by the consumer - they experience an increase in their cost of living when measured against their income.

The numbers game is reflected in how the voters vote - seeing that they are the consumers, there is your metric of success or failure.

So, now you are saying that "facts" don't matter (the actual low inflation rate)?

You measure "success" by how voters vote?

So, when Obama won the election in 2012, you championed all of Obama's economic and social policies, and decided that all of Mitt Romney's policy proposals were worthless and should be ignored because the "voters" didn't vote for him?
 
How else would you poll people. :confused:

An actual pool of questions, polls are by and large a social-human experiment when it comes to these things. For some reason people feel that others can see how they vote or decide even when it's anonymous...

People by and large even us...just do dumb quirks for no real reason and so it's a factorizing reason to why just asking "hey you voting John or Jane", point blank doesn't do much. Because we know people will think it over in just a few short takes, and come to some convoluted reason why not to say John. "This pollster doesn't know my name, but if I pick that pig of a man John, he'll shame me with facial expressions. Then he'll tell his friends what I picked, and some how my friends will find out and then it'll be all over." Outing your family pet, mother in law, co-worker or neighbor seems like a fun mental exercise in getting people to say what they would actually pick.
 
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