[POLL] United States Presidential Elections 2016

[RC45]

I very much doubt that a pardon from Obama will be coming - mostly because he'll be President no more by the time it would be even remotely politically feasible to issue one.

Clearly you don't understand how presidential pardons work or their absolute power.

The pardon would be a blanket pardon of any future conviction for any crimes committed prior to the date of the pardon.

 

[Liquid]

It's pure fantasy but this would be amazing. Obama not only showed up Trump by killing bin Laden but also denying him the chance to ever take down Snowden and Manning and steal his thunder? That would be slick.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I'm less worried about Trump's racism and more worried about his decisions like what he might do to our space program and who he appoints as head of education. (Carson is on the list, and that could spell trouble)

 

[Dotini]

I'm less worried about Trump's racism and more worried about his decisions like what he might do to our space program and who he appoints as head of education. (Carson is on the list, and that could spell trouble)

I pity the department that gets Palin!

 

[McLaren]

I don't watch tv other than sports and the odd series here and there, but apparently Orange is the New Black is a big thing on tv and someone I've never heard of (nothing unusual there) called Lea DeLaria said that along with some racist, intolerant, profanity laced hashtags. Things are tense around here so I won't post a link, even hidden in a spoiler because it's laced with profanity that's against the AUP, but if you want it, ask me for it in a PM and I'll be happy to send it.

*Googles name/sees pic*
Yeah, no need. Angry bull dykes are a breed of their own when it comes to politics.

 

[GTsail]

I pity the department that gets Palin!

Maybe the Department of Interior?

The Interior's moto would seem to fit Palin's outdoorsy image: "Protecting America's Great Outdoors and Powering our Future"

Though, the Interior's department on climate change would have to go:

Interior Department's Climate change webpage

 

[Dotini]

Maybe the Department of Interior?

The Interior's moto would seem to fit Palin's outdoorsy image: "Protecting America's Great Outdoors and Powering our Future"

Though, the Interior's department on climate change would have to go:

Interior Department's Climate change webpage

NOAA and NASA Probably get in the last word on climate change. Palin might be in charge of petroleum pipeline right of way, condemnations of private property and native American villages?

 

[Sanji Himura]

Is there any ETA for when the Michigan and New Hampshire things will be sorted out?

Last I checked, they were still counting absentee ballots. New Hampshire is a particular note because of their senate race. They apparently called the Senate race in favor of the Democrat.

 

[huskeR32]

Angry bull dykes

Discussions can be had without using language like this. Grow up.

 

[RC45]

I'm less worried about Trump's racism and more worried about his decisions like what he might do to our space program and who he appoints as head of education. (Carson is on the list, and that could spell trouble)

You do know that the obama administration pretty much neutered and decimated the program right?

NASA's primary function these days is muslim outreach, not interplanetary outreach.

********
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Now as a separate follow-up:

To all the liberal democrat socialists, they appear to be ignorant of the fact that during the last 8 years the obama regime failed on every single front they approached - and in a final repudiation of everything that is and was obama, the country in a landslide by precinct, rejected the ideal socialist liberal democrat candidate (that could have continued obamas legacy) and loudly chose to stop the liberal train in its tracks.

The liberal democrat socialists lost the election.

8 years later everything that obama tried failed.
Foreign policy failed.
Domestic education policy failed.
Domestic economic policy failed.
By every metric the country is worse off after 8 years of 'Hope and Change'.

The adults gave the kids 8 years to have their little social experiment.

It failed.

The adults stood up and took back the reigns.

The liberal democrat socialists lost the election.

The country is now going to head down a path of prosperity - in all spheres.

Mostly because the strangling control of all spheres of life will be wrested from Federal bureaucratic control and placed back into State hands.

And in case liberal democrat socialists may have not seen the news for a few days - they lost the election.

Now they should go home, get a job and move out of their parents basement and start paying for their own health care.

Okay?

Good.

 

[CodeRedR51]

You do know that the obama administration pretty much neutered and decimated the program right?

Not really. Their budget has been about the same for quite some time now. Sure the percentage has gone down as part of the whole federal budget, but the amount has stayed roughly the same since Obama took office, which is around the same time their budget actually increased.

 

[PeterJB]

I don't watch tv other than sports and the odd series here and there, but apparently Orange is the New Black is a big thing on tv and someone I've never heard of (nothing unusual there) called Lea DeLaria said that along with some racist, intolerant, profanity laced hashtags. Things are tense around here so I won't post a link, even hidden in a spoiler because it's laced with profanity that's against the AUP, but if you want it, ask me for it in a PM and I'll be happy to send it.

She's basically the lesbian version of Lena Dunham.

 

[RC45]

Not really. Their budget has been about the same for quite some time now. Sure the percentage has gone down as part of the whole federal budget, but the amount has stayed roughly the same since Obama took office, which is around the same time their budget actually increased.

No, really.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

the country in a landslide by precinct

That's a very selective way of looking at the result.

Folks, you lost the election.

You lost the election.

And in case you may have not seen the news for a few days - You lost the election.

Now go home, get a job and move out of your parents basement and start paying for your own health care.

Sorry, who are the adults and who are the kids again?

 

[huskeR32]

the obama regime failed on every single front they approached

everything that obama tried failed

Thanks for the clear signs that we shouldn't take you seriously.

The adults stood up and took back the reigns.

 

[RC45]

d

That's a very selective way of looking at the result.

Have you gone and looked at the per precinct returns to see just how many precincts the democrats lost?

The electoral collage was put in place by the founders to prevent a 1 man 1 vote outcome which is precisely the model they did not envision.

Thanks for the clear signs that we shouldn't take you seriously.

the obama regime failed on every single front they approached

Please show by which metric the obama period was a success.

Economy?
Employment?
Education?
Foreign policy?
Cost of health care?

 

[Scaff]

I'm going to make this clear and do so once only.

The AUP was not modified or removed, nor we exemptions suddenly put in place as a result of Tuesday.

Those of you who are unable to discuss the result in a manner in line with the AUP and while being respectful of both your fellow members and society at large are going to start feeling the heavy side of moderation.

This applies to both sides and it applies now.

The language, tone and attitude displayed by some has no place here at GT Planet and will not be tolerated for a moment longer.

 

[TRGTspecialist]

The electoral collage was put in place by the founders to prevent a 1 man 1 vote outcome which is precisely the model they did not envision.

Of course, by the electoral college Trump won solidly, but not hugely. To imply there was a 'landslide' element to his win through numbers of precincts (which doesn't have direct bearing on EC votes) I think is a bit misleading - in a similar way to those who argue Clinton really 'won' because of her plurality in the popular vote.

 

[CodeRedR51]

No, really.

The numbers don't lie.

 

[Dotini]

Of course, by the electoral college Trump won solidly, but not hugely. To imply there was a 'landslide' element to his win through numbers of precincts (which doesn't have direct bearing on EC votes) I think is a bit misleading - in a similar way to those who argue Clinton really 'won' because of her plurality in the popular vote.

Technically, a landslide is a victory by 10% or more. We should wait for all results to be in and certified before rendering a final assessment.

 

[huskeR32]

Please show by which metric the obama period was a success.

Well, to disprove your claim, I'd only need to show one area. Turns out, there are several.

Economy?

How about a better recovery from the 2008 recession than almost anybody else?

Employment?

Longest streak of consecutive months with positive job growth since they started measuring in 1939.

Unemployment cut in half since the recession.

Foreign policy?

Most countries have a more favorable view of the United States now than they did before Obama took office. Many of them by a huge margin.

Cost of health care?

While one's perspective can certainly have a huge impact on this, for at least 17 million people, it has become more affordable.

--

Numbers are always open to interpretation. The true magnitude of the above numbers, and how much credit Obama should get for them (or how much credit any president ever deserves, for that matter) can be debated. How different those numbers might have looked with a Republican president can be speculated upon (though never known).

I'm not interested in getting lost in an arguing about any of that.

But saying that Obama's entire presidency was a failure is an utter disregard for reality.

 

[RC45]

Of course, by the electoral college Trump won solidly, but not hugely. To imply there was a 'landslide' element to his win through numbers of precincts (which doesn't have direct bearing on EC votes) I think is a bit misleading - in a similar way to those who argue Clinton really 'won' because of her plurality in the popular vote.

Current count is 290 to 228 with 20 still 'too close to call'. 16 look to be going Trumps way and 4 going Clintons way.

That is landslide territory.

 

[GTsail]

Please show by which metric the obama period was a success.

Cost of health care?
Employment?
Economy?

Well, it depends upon how you define "success", but I did find this graph that says that yearly increase in Health care costs have been reduced from 9.9% in 2008 (George Bush's last year) to 6.5% in 2016, so this shows a decent reduction in the trend of health costs over the last eight years:

PWC study on health care costs

It also seems that the US Unemployment rate is now at 5%, which is 2.8% lower than the rate it was in January 2009 (the month that Obama took office). Here's a link:

US Unemployment rate by Year

Over Obama's term, the US GDP increased from $14.58 trillion to $16.58 trillion, a $2 trillion increase. Do you consider this a "success"?

$2 trillion is the same increase that occurred during George Bush's term (where the US GDP increased from $12.68 trillion to $14.58 trillion). So the US GDP increased slightly more under Obama's term than it did under Bush's term. See attached link:

US GDP by Year

 

[RC45]

Well, to disprove your claim, I'd only need to show one area. Turns out, there are several.

Ok - lets look at your summation.

Numbers are always open to interpretation. The true magnitude of the above numbers, and how much credit Obama should get for them (or how much credit any president ever deserves, for that matter) can be debated. How different those numbers might have looked with a Republican president can be speculated upon (though never known).

I'm not interested in getting lost in an arguing about any of that.

You admit the number are open to interpretation.

I will go further and say the numbers are open to manipulation.

But saying that Obama's entire presidency was a failure is an utter disregard for reality.

How so?

This is the reality:

• More people on food stamps.
• More people unemployed.
• Lower income for the few left employed.
• Higher cost of living.
• Real inflation.
• Higher individual cost of health care.
• Crippling additional costs on none-corporate business entities.
• Hindering regulations on corporate business entities.

And this reality was translated into votes, votes that ousted the ruling party.
IOW, the VOTERS have said resoundingly "Obama's entire presidency was a failure. We do NOT want it to continue under Clinton"

And as an extra bonus he gave us a bigger increase in national debt than all previous administrations since 1776 combined.

 

[huskeR32]

This is the reality:

Okay, so my numbers are obviously manipulated, because left wing.

Your numbers are unquestionable truth.

Yeah, I'm done trying to penetrate your echo chamber.

 

[RC45]

Okay, so my numbers are obviously manipulated, because left wing.

Your numbers are unquestionable truth.

Yeah, I'm done trying to penetrate your echo chamber.

Ok, 1 by 1 then in question form then:

• Are more people on food stamps now than before obama?

• Are more people unemployed now than before obama?

• Are incomes lower now than before obama?

• Is the real cost of living higher now than before obama?

• Is inflation higher now than before obama?

• Does an individual pay more now for their healthcare than before obama?

• Do small businesses face more crippling costs and regulations (especially due to ACA) than before obama?

These are the "real numbers" that count for the voters.

I know the voters thought so, they answered those questions by ousting the ruling party and declaring the obama period a failure.

If they had of thought otherwise clinton would have been elected to continue obamas legacy.

The numbers don't lie, they just haven't finished counting being yet.

 

[RouWa]

I just watched the following video about American elections in general:



Dana (the YouTuber) is often annoying, but I'm only interested in the part between minute 4:00 and 5:30. Is that number at minute 5:19 realistic? Even if an election period lasts more than a year (18 months?), this number can't be real.

 

[GTsail]

This is the reality:

• Real inflation.

When you mention inflation what numbers are you looking at?

Here is some annual inflation numbers to look at:

US average inflation rates

Per the above table, the average inflation under Obama's term was 1.4%, while the average inflation under George Bush's term was 2.8%, so Obama's term had an inflation rate that was 1/2 of George Bush's. Do you consider this an improvement?

And as an extra bonus he gave us a bigger increase in national debt than all previous administrations since 1776 combined.

^^^^ this is certainly true, but Obama inherited a recession from George Bush, so its not entirely Obama's fault. However, I would say that the deficit is still way/way/way too large. In 2012 the deficit was $1,086billion and this was reduced down to $439billion in 2015 ($679B in 2013, $485B in 2014), so the trend was looking good but then the deficit increased to an estimated $587billion in 2016, so the downward trend has stopped under Obama's last year.

What do you think the deficit will be over the next two year's? Do you think it will be higher or lower than $587billion?

 

[RC45]

I just watched the following video about American elections in general:


Dana (the YouTuber) is often annoying, but I'm only interested in the part between minute 4:00 and 5:30. Is that number at minute 5:19 realistic? Even if an election period lasts more than a year (18 months?), this number can't be real.

The number is real.

It is because the original intent of the founders to have the 'political class' be made up of part time politicians that ran for office, served a short period then returned to be productive citizens.

The modern liberal progressives (both Democrat and Republicans) have nurtured an entire political elite class of professional politicians that have become an ever growing leviathan that relies on government and their sole purpose after they get elected is to STAY IN POWER!

This is why the election campaign runs 18 moths - there is a 2 year election cycle in the USA - so once you get elected, you need to start campaigning very soon to try get re-elected.

Why you ask?

The only career path in the USA that has infinite growth potential is Federal elected office.

Among the key benefits are pension for life, free health care for life and the ability to vote your own salary.

The original intent of a government serving its people has been hijacked and it is now a government served BY the people.

When you mention inflation what numbers are you looking at?

Here is some annual inflation numbers to look at:

US average inflation rates

Per the above table, the average inflation under Obama's term was 1.4%, while the average inflation under George Bush's term was 2.8%, so Obama's term had an inflation rate that was 1/2 of George Bush's. Do you consider this an improvement?

From my point of view, only if wages didn't suffer under the same period.

 

[Daniel]

That's exactly the issue; Liberals love to assume that's going to become a major problem because they assume Trump supporters are all that way. Hillary herself at one point said half his supporters were every name in the book.

Obviously not all liberals are going to think this, just like how not all Trump supporters are xenophobic/queerphobic/islamaphobic.

Which 'side' is going to pose the greatest threat to the other?

To me, it seems like the extreme right rhetoric poses a greater risk (at least for civil rights). because there is threat to policy surrounding women's rights, queer rights etc. due to a Republican majority in the House and Senate as well as plans to implement the next Scalia into the SCOTUS.

On top of that, you have the vitriolic rhetoric Trump's victory has emboldened for a part of his supporters; a mass of climate change deniers and many who want religion and the state to get freaky together.

What would the risks have been for conservatives if Clinton won?

(keep in mind I'm posting this as a liberal so I have some bias. I'll try to be opened minded though).