Polyphony Digital Considering Action Against Gran Turismo 7 "Wall-Riding" Cheats

  • Thread starter Famine
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If PD put more thought into their frankly lazy track designs they wouldnt have wall riding in the first place. All the wall riding exploits that have been publicised are on their original tracks.

You invite players to try exploiting it when the outside barrier is just a smooth arc around the outside of the tarmac without any risk of frontal collisions.

Chicane cutting is harder to prevent by design, however proper soft barrier physics should help.


Pretty much. If wall riding or any other weird way of racing is faster then that's on the developers for making the track badly.

The point of the game is for players to find the fastest way around the track, it seems dumb to be mad when they do so. Between geometry, barriers and outright time penalties Polyphony has more than enough tools to make sure that non-intended ways around the track are slower. If they choose not to do so, one can fairly assume that it's intended to be an acceptable method of driving. If the game allows it, it's not cheating.

Wall riding in particular has been around since GT1. This isn't something that snuck up on Polyphony. I would go so far as to say that historically it's been designed into their games.
 
Pretty much. If wall riding or any other weird way of racing is faster then that's on the developers for making the track badly.

The point of the game is for players to find the fastest way around the track, it seems dumb to be mad when they do so. Between geometry, barriers and outright time penalties Polyphony has more than enough tools to make sure that non-intended ways around the track are slower. If they choose not to do so, one can fairly assume that it's intended to be an acceptable method of driving. If the game allows it, it's not cheating.

Wall riding in particular has been around since GT1. This isn't something that snuck up on Polyphony. I would go so far as to say that historically it's been designed into their games.
The game doesn't allow it as you get a penalty for hitting the wall, unless you use the glitch that people found and exploited.
 
The game doesn't allow it as you get a penalty for hitting the wall, unless you use the glitch that people found and exploited.
How do you define the difference between intended mechanics, unintended mechanics and glitches?
 
I have two ideas or might have more. You're free to uh... use the poo emoji if you don't agree, to each their vision.

Corner cutting:
Why not use the old Forza Motorsport games method to enforce staying on track: Slow the car down moderately if slightly off track, slow the car down to a crawl if they cut, if they cut a whole section or chicane, do the GT Sport method: Reset them before the chicane.

Wall riding: Apply a harsh speed limiter like in the old Forza Motorsport game when you wall-ride for a second or two.

I mean, I know these are not realistic sounding but you gotta get the arsenal out.
give this man a cookie
 
I have two ideas or might have more. You're free to uh... use the poo emoji if you don't agree, to each their vision.

Corner cutting:
Why not use the old Forza Motorsport games method to enforce staying on track: Slow the car down moderately if slightly off track, slow the car down to a crawl if they cut, if they cut a whole section or chicane, do the GT Sport method: Reset them before the chicane.

Wall riding: Apply a harsh speed limiter like in the old Forza Motorsport game when you wall-ride for a second or two.

I mean, I know these are not realistic sounding but you gotta get the arsenal out.
Driveclub did something like that
 
I wait for the day for PD to remove the 'invisble hand of god' movement of your car when it goes off track or hits a wall and replaced by destructable/collasipble track walls & objects, allow the car to move in its natural way if you make a mistake.
 
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Although I love the entire series of "Gran Turismo" releases, at the end of the day, they are good, but by no means perfect Simulations of real World Driving / Racing. :cool::)

Some Gamers want to win, by playing fair, trying to avoid all contact with other cars & staying within the track Limits. Racing like they would in the real-world. 👍 :D:cheers:

Others want to Win at any cost, using whatever methods are at their disposal. 👎:grumpy::mad:
So if there's a glitch within the game they can exploit, they will do so.

Surely the Onus is on PD to catch these glitches & stop players benefiting from them in On-Line Races. :banghead:
Perhaps putting a series of concrete posts, along that outer wall on the High Speed Ring.
Not very realistic, but it would solve the wall-riding issue.


Perhaps Make "Heavy Damage" compulsory in every on-line race, plus a "3 strikes & your out" of the Race rule.
To stop rammers deliberately nudging people off the track.
And so cheaters need to think again, before instigating any sort of contact.

If you've watched any GT7 clips on You-tube, you've probably seen the same 6-10 names crop up of cheating / nasty / weaving / last second diving bar stewards. that ruin the on-line races for the majority. How hard would it be for PD to employ 1 guy to review these & if the Player has been complained about by several others & the replay shows he's been guilty of un-sportsmanlike behavior. You ban him/her from the Game. Zero Tolerance.

[Edit: to delete the idea of knee-capping car thieves &/or cheating GT7 Players]
 
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It can be ambiguous what is a glitch and what isn't, and there's no way they're going to get humans to review every single race that takes place and check the driving of every driver. Enforcement of rules in computer games has to be automated.

Do you have an example of an ambiguous glitch?

I don’t think it’s necessary to catch everyone. The risk of being caught is probably enough to make most people play fair.
 
Wallride, wallride... It's only a little push into the rail :D

To avoid all penalties from every parts, just use real wallride style:

8070451634059083800_0.jpg


:lol:
 
Others want to Win at any cost, using whatever methods are at their disposal.
I'm sorry, do you think that racing drivers in the real world aren't trying to win using whatever methods are at their disposal?

You should watch Formula 1, you'd be shocked. Half of the entertainment is the ridiculous lengths the teams and drivers will go to in order to find loopholes in the regulations to give themselves an advantage. Or even just to push the explicit rules to their very utmost.

This is true of pretty much any competitive sport. It is expected that you try your hardest to win, and that includes taking advantage of anything the rules allow you to do even if scrubs complain about it.
 
it does exist now - try wall riding after the new update and see what happens
Wait - I think I know why they completely jacked up the sensitivity on damage now... Trying to play Tokyo 600 this morning was infuriating with the new damage. I'm ok with the damage aspect if you really hit the wall/opponents "hard", but the slightest of graze this morning would make it almost undrivable with how hard and erratically it would pull the steering. Not a good combo first 3-4 laps on that race with the wet track and how long the damage "lasts" is almost double post-update.
 
How do you define the difference between intended mechanics, unintended mechanics and glitches?
I don't think there's a catch-all definition. Some are pretty obvious, others are more subtle, so it's usually judged case by case. Either way, it's the developer that decides. In MMOs there's typically a warning from the devs while they work on a fix. Depending on how bad the exploit is the warning could be anything from a leaderboard or account reset (not necessarily to zero, but to a point in time before people started exploiting) to ban-waves (usually reserved for things that cost the company a lot of money :P).
 
I don't think there's a catch-all definition. Some are pretty obvious, others are more subtle, so it's usually judged case by case. Either way, it's the developer that decides.
Right, that's the point. In fact, I'd go even further. In a competitive environment it's not strictly about what the developer/organiser says the rules are, as much as it's about what they'll enforce and punish. That sounds silly, so let me explain.

For example, F1 for years was notoriously lax about letting drivers force each other off the road in certain situations despite the rules saying that they had to leave racing room. The rules were fairly clear, but the precedent from the stewards was also pretty clear and so the drivers continued to force each other off on corner runout because that was something that was incredibly rarely noted at all, let alone punished. It was just something you could do, and if you weren't doing it then you were easier to pass.

When there's a difference between the rules as written and the rules as they're enforced, the rules as they're written don't matter.

So in something like GT the developer can say "no wallriding" in general terms, but if the penalty system doesn't penalise you if you wallride in a certain way then that is implicit permission to do it but only in that certain way. When the rules are ultimately mediated by the game, there's a pretty strong argument that anything the game allows you to do is fair. After all, there's plenty of games in which that sort of precise control is considered a feature - part of the mechanical skill that separates the pros from the casual player.

This is not to say that the game and gameplay might not be better without whatever strategy or technique is the problem. Degenerate game environments exist, but they're a problem for designers, not players. As a player as long as a technique exists and gives you an advantage, you're a bad competitive player if you don't use it.

David Sirlin's Playing to Win is relevant reading here. It's primarily about fighting games, but the competitive principles apply to any game including sim racing. Linked is a summary article, but I recommend any serious competitive driver read through the actual book. It's essentially a series of short articles about the mental aspects of playing competitive games, and the ways in which players will (often unknowingly) self-sabotage by creating arbitrary rules for themselves.

To be super clear, I think the game would be better off without wall-riding in it. If nothing else, it doesn't fit the realistic image that Polyphony is going for. I also think that there's a ton of ways that Polyphony could make it impossible or at least not competitively viable if they actually wanted to (primarily clever track design and more advanced contact physics). And so it's continued existence is more like a feature of the unique combination of Polyphony physics and track design. It's part of the game, like bunny hopping in Quake or BXR in Halo.
 
Well it's now been over 48 hours since the new damage model had been in effect and honestly I do see it in the way we drive in the daily races. For example in the C race, I've been in a few, my rating is Mid-C / S, and it had been the cleanest racing I've seen in very long time. I do not see the obvious "nudgers" and "bump and runs" anymore. It has been very clean, unless others have seen otherwise, please speak up...
 
The new Damage Model makes driving with a controller so much less fun compared to a wheel:irked:, since with the controller steering is imprecise. Every small Impact damages several parts, even parts that didnt make contact. This is so annoying:banghead:. And i bet that every casual player playing menues, will more likely quit, as soon as he gets hit by the new damage model in races with damages.
I feel even more now, that driving with a wheel is the only option left.:indiff:

It might be nice for people doing online races, but for people like me driving against the AI its super annoying.(since they almost never crash.):guilty:
 
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The new Damage Model makes driving with a controller so much less fun compared to a wheel:irked:, since with the controller steering is imprecise. Every small Impact damages several parts, even parts that didnt make contact. This is so annoying:banghead:. And i bet that every casual player playing menues, will more likely quit, as soon as he gets hit by the new damage model in races with damages.
I feel even more now, that driving with a wheel is the only option left.:indiff:

It might be nice for people doing online races, but for people like me driving against the AI its super annoying.(since they almost never crash.):guilty:
As someone that plays mostly single player, the solution to avoid damage is not touching walls, which with precise driving (achievable with a controller, I do it all the time) is feasible. Besides, the point of the thread is discussing what action PD is taking against wall riders, so...
 
The new Damage Model makes driving with a controller so much less fun compared to a wheel:irked:, since with the controller steering is imprecise. Every small Impact damages several parts, even parts that didnt make contact. This is so annoying:banghead:. And i bet that every casual player playing menues, will more likely quit, as soon as he gets hit by the new damage model in races with damages.
I feel even more now, that driving with a wheel is the only option left.:indiff:

It might be nice for people doing online races, but for people like me driving against the AI its super annoying.(since they almost never crash.):guilty:
I only use a controller never ever had a wheel rig and because of the damage model I am more precise in the way I drive it is easy to do with the controller if that's all you ever have been used to...
 
If there were an adequate damage model in GT7, this issue would be nonexistent.

That said, I do benefit a lot from wall riding in Single Player. My main source of income still is doing Pan American race 1 using Remote Play. Whatever measures PD takes against wallriding, I hope it doesn't affect Single Player.
Game payouts just need to be better in all races. PD is tighter than a frogs butt under water with the payouts. I mean what does it matter if we buy all the cars. Its about being a car collector anyways right?
 
I don't understand. What damage model? How is it related to penalties for contact in daily races?
Its much easier to get damage for hitting people, which slows down the car more than before. Racing has been cleaner since the update
 
Its much easier to get damage for hitting people, which slows down the car more than before. Racing has been cleaner since the update
After this update, on Willow Springs Gr. 3 daily race, I got pushed out of the track two times by the same dude and didn't get a single penalty for it. I don't understand where is this clean racing you're talking about...
 
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