Polyphony Digital Considering Action Against Gran Turismo 7 "Wall-Riding" Cheats

[coyb20]

Probably race footage from other drivers

 

[danimac]

This is such an awesome thumbnail. 😎

 

[KCR]

Looking at the website I don't think they already took these actions - no one seems to have had points set to zero.
The ones with 0 in round 2 didn't race it in the first place, as far as I know.
Also the manufacturers points for round 2 are still there as well.

 

[Timm Sheehan]

Not enough. Break their thumbs so that they can never play again. Remember, sim racing is serious business that should be taken completely seriously.

You have some good posts but with these 2 posts I disagree. Violence? We are better than that (I assume you were joking?).

As for the "serious business" - can't say that I agree at all. This is a game and IF someone considers this a serious business then maybe these individuals should break off from the rest and form a serious business league away from the rest of us who treat this as a game, taken seriously but still a game.

 

[Imari]

You have some good posts but with these 2 posts I disagree. Violence? We are better than that (I assume you were joking?).

As for the "serious business" - can't say that I agree at all. This is a game and IF someone considers this a serious business then maybe these individuals should break off from the rest and form a serious business league away from the rest of us who treat this as a game, taken seriously but still a game.

It was a joke. I thought that after my history in this thread suggesting that wall-riding shouldn't actually be punished at all, the sheer insanity of suggesting that someone should be maimed for life for their actions in a video game would be enough to make that clear but apparently not.

The serious business thing was a joke too. It's a poke at people who treat sim racing as if it's a matter of life and death. There's more than a few of them around, and there's a higher concentration of them among those who see wall-riding as cheating that should be harshly clamped down upon. Again, I thought my history in this thread would make it clear that this was sarcasm that is wildly in opposition to my previously clearly stated position.

Yeah I don;t get that argument at all, quite clearly effecting the overall outcome for others by doing it. Its like saying its ok to take steroids/GH/PED's (although arguably most elite level athletes do anyway), but not ok to to trip/push someone in athletics.

If you're in a sport where those drugs aren't banned, then yeah, it's okay. That isn't controversial, and we've seen real life examples of it happening. What happens is that everyone who wants to compete at a high level starts taking drugs.

I'm not an athletics expert, but I have to imagine that not pushing your opponents is explicitly called out in the rules somewhere.

 

[shadow0460]

Here's my 3 cents: if you wanna drive dirty or cheap in the single player stuff, go right ahead. In fact, I've even recommended a few ways to do this.
Online, though, you gotta keep it fair and most of all, fun. It's kinda like in person sports: sure I could own up on folks at half court or laser tag back in the day, but it was worth it to hold back, even losing some games, so we all could have a great time. I'm very competitive, so that's a stretch sometimes.
Ha, as for thumb breaking, only if we can glue 'em right back on! 😁

 

[qhobbes]

File this one under #GotEm

 

[Imari]

if you use the wallriding to go faster, that is absolutely affecting and spoiling the races of those who aren’t cheating, eg you get a much faster exit and so can make an overtake at the next corner.

do it all you want in single player, but don’t pretend your actions aren’t influencing a competition against other people.

It's a competition to go faster. The whole point of racing is to "influence" the competition so that you're faster than you're opponents. There are many ways you can do this.

Should I not be using the accelerator because it's influencing the competition against other people? That seems silly.
Should I not be using a faster car because it's influencing the competition against other people? No, if the car is legal it's fair game.
Should I not be taking faster racing lines because it's influencing the competition against other people? Of course not, that's part of racing.

If you think about it, we're fine with influencing the competition against others in these indirect ways. Simply going faster isn't "spoiling the races of others", it's the basis of the sport. What generally gets frowned upon is acting in ways that determine the outcome that do not have adequate room for the opponent to respond.

Crashing other people out? Bad, there's not much they can or could have reasonably done about it.
Taking a faster line? Fine, they can do the same or better if they have the skill.

Wallriding ultimately boils down to finding an unintuitive but faster line through a corner. You can not like it, but that's what it is. Yes, it makes you go faster. As is the point of racing.

If you want to arbitrarily tag some stuff as cheating, then go ahead. But that's why I posted the Playing to Win articles. Because labelling random stuff as cheating is peak Scrub behaviour.

 

[B80]

It was a joke. I thought that after my history in this thread suggesting that wall-riding shouldn't actually be punished at all, the sheer insanity of suggesting that someone should be maimed for life for their actions in a video game would be enough to make that clear but apparently not.

The serious business thing was a joke too. It's a poke at people who treat sim racing as if it's a matter of life and death. There's more than a few of them around, and there's a higher concentration of them among those who see wall-riding as cheating that should be harshly clamped down upon. Again, I thought my history in this thread would make it clear that this was sarcasm that is wildly in opposition to my previously clearly stated position.

If you're in a sport where those drugs aren't banned, then yeah, it's okay. That isn't controversial, and we've seen real life examples of it happening. What happens is that everyone who wants to compete at a high level starts taking drugs.

I'm not an athletics expert, but I have to imagine that not pushing your opponents is explicitly called out in the rules somewhere.

What sport are PEDs not banned in... pro bodybuilding, some powerlifting feds...not sure what others.

 

[Fezzik]

It's a competition to go faster. The whole point of racing is to "influence" the competition so that you're faster than you're opponents. There are many ways you can do this.

Should I not be using the accelerator because it's influencing the competition against other people? That seems silly.
Should I not be using a faster car because it's influencing the competition against other people? No, if the car is legal it's fair game.
Should I not be taking faster racing lines because it's influencing the competition against other people? Of course not, that's part of racing.

If you think about it, we're fine with influencing the competition against others in these indirect ways. Simply going faster isn't "spoiling the races of others", it's the basis of the sport. What generally gets frowned upon is acting in ways that determine the outcome that do not have adequate room for the opponent to respond.

Crashing other people out? Bad, there's not much they can or could have reasonably done about it.
Taking a faster line? Fine, they can do the same or better if they have the skill.

Wallriding ultimately boils down to finding an unintuitive but faster line through a corner. You can not like it, but that's what it is. Yes, it makes you go faster. As is the point of racing.

If you want to arbitrarily tag some stuff as cheating, then go ahead. But that's why I posted the Playing to Win articles. Because labelling random stuff as cheating is peak Scrub behaviour.

edit - fine mods, if one bit of that "serves to antagonize" let's just scrap the whole thing

 

[Imari]

What sport are PEDs not banned in... pro bodybuilding, some powerlifting feds...not sure what others.

These days? Basically none, for good solid reasons. This wasn't always the case. Before they were banned, they were legal.

Once again for those with low comprehension skills, wall-riding was not permitted in that round as there was a penalty setting enabled for wall collisions.

For those with low comprehension skills, there was a penalty setting enabled for wall collisions unless you also hit another car within a certain time frame. That means that wall-riding is prohibited, unless you meet the very specific prerequisites that allow you to do it.

Those were the rules. They were bad rules. Very bad rules. Like, should have never got anywhere near a competitive environment rules. But they were very clear and very consistent.

Just because people found a way to game the system and avoid the penalty being applied (because PD messed up somewhere along the line) doesn't make it a legitimate tactic.

Yes. It does. That's how rules work. If you find an edge case that isn't banned by the rules, it isn't banned by the rules.

Yes, the whole idea is to go fastest, within the rules.

And the rules enabled wall-riding, in certain cases. Again, they were bad rules. If you have a problem with this, it's the fault of the rules, not the players. And Polyphony I suppose, the people who make the rules.

If someone found a way to enable nitrous and gain 50kph down the straight, that would be against the rules and cheating. If someone found a way to turn off BOP and tune the car to be quicker, that would be against the rules and cheating. It's all the same thing.

It really depends how they did it.

People found ways to game the PP system with the Tomahawk if I recall. Was that cheating? Or was that clever use of game mechanics? Because that's functionally defeating the system that is supposed to be ensuring car parity and tuning the car to be quicker.

 

[AlexWilmot]

These days? Basically none, for good solid reasons. This wasn't always the case. Before they were banned, they were legal.

Just to add, PED's are banned in a lot of sports but it doesn't stop people using them

 

[Imari]

Just to add, PED's are banned in a lot of sports but it doesn't stop people using them

Absolutely, but at least in that situation they're unambiguously against the rules and using them is unquestionably cheating.

 

[B80]

Absolutely, but at least in that situation they're unambiguously against the rules and using them is unquestionably cheating.

Which is the point of my original post. Whether you're directly interfering through pushing/pulling/tripping/wallriding or sticking a needle in your bum you're effecting the outcome/integrity of the sport.

Op implied that wall riding is kind of OK as you're not spoiling things fir the others... which is blatantly untrue.

 

[Imari]

Which is the point of my original post. Whether you're directly interfering through pushing/pulling/tripping/wallriding or sticking a needle in your bum you're effecting the outcome/integrity of the sport.

Op implied that wall riding is kind of OK as you're not spoiling things fir the others... which is blatantly untrue.

Answered already.

It's a competition to go faster. The whole point of racing is to "influence" the competition so that you're faster than you're opponents. There are many ways you can do this.

Should I not be using the accelerator because it's influencing the competition against other people? That seems silly.
Should I not be using a faster car because it's influencing the competition against other people? No, if the car is legal it's fair game.
Should I not be taking faster racing lines because it's influencing the competition against other people? Of course not, that's part of racing.

If you think about it, we're fine with influencing the competition against others in these indirect ways. Simply going faster isn't "spoiling the races of others", it's the basis of the sport. What generally gets frowned upon is acting in ways that determine the outcome that do not have adequate room for the opponent to respond.

Crashing other people out? Bad, there's not much they can or could have reasonably done about it.
Taking a faster line? Fine, they can do the same or better if they have the skill.

Wallriding ultimately boils down to finding an unintuitive but faster line through a corner. You can not like it, but that's what it is. Yes, it makes you go faster. As is the point of racing.

If you want to arbitrarily tag some stuff as cheating, then go ahead. But that's why I posted the Playing to Win articles. Because labelling random stuff as cheating is peak Scrub behaviour.

 

[BigSarj]

Ya, I can't get with this argument that wallriding is acceptable. It's an exploit. It's lame. It directly affects the people you're racing against. And it makes you look bad. These I'm sure we all agree on.

I know it can be tricky to decide in a court of law whether someone purposely used an exploit or if it was accidental so I think PD did the right thing by negating the results. Now they have to do the obvious thing and fix wallriding once and for all. 1.5 second penalties for crashing into a barrier is a joke. You're now getting triple punishment for messing up or getting messed up by someone else.

 

[Franco_Racer]

PD should be using only test proof tracks for such serious events..

 

[Fezzik]

'GTWS 2022 Manufacturers Cup - Season 2, Round 2 Points Voidance & Championships Overview Page Update - Sport Mode - Gran Turismo 7 - gran-turismo.com

Gran Turismo Official Website

www.gran-turismo.com

Just in case there was any doubt:

"
Forbidden Actions

• It is forbidden for a competitor to simultaneously participate in the same Championship and Season with multiple accounts.
• It is forbidden to participate using another person's account for PlayStation®Network.
• It is forbidden for a competitor to intentionally support another player during a race where they are not part of the same team.
• It is forbidden for a competitor to exploit unintended gameplay mechanics and issues found in the software in order to gain any type of advantage.
• Unsportsmanlike conduct.

If players are found to be engaging in such forbidden activities, they will be dealt with accordingly, including but not limited to being banned from the Championships."

 

[KCR]

The voided points are now reflected, from a quick diff:

• 10 players from Asia/Oceania
• 8 players from Americas
• 1 player from Europe (even if PD notice said no one from Europe)

They clearly only looked at the top split races in each region - which makes sense I guess

 

[BasherB59]

[SPOILER ALERT - THIS IS NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY]

Perhaps PD could / should arrange for ALL of the "Professional" Competitions to be held in each country, at a selected Venue. Each Gaming Chair should be made of Metal, with no padding. And Individually hooked up to the Electricity Supply. Any Wall Riding results in that Individual being Zapped by 50,000 Volts !!! (Or a Tazer, if more convenient)

 

[jrbabbitt]

[SPOILER ALERT - THIS IS NOT TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY]

Perhaps PD could / should arrange for ALL of the "Professional" Competitions to be held in each country, at a selected Venue. Each Gaming Chair should be made of Metal, with no padding. And Individually hooked up to the Electricity Supply. Any Wall Riding results in that Individual being Zapped by 50,000 Volts !!! (Or a Tazer, if more convenient)

Shocking that we have to resort to this....