Polyphony Digital Considering Action Against Gran Turismo 7 "Wall-Riding" Cheats

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Judging by the way you race I'm not surprised to hear you say that. You don't know me, but a lot of people know you. Not for the right reasons either.

I race people how they race me, if you consider me a dirty driver because of that you might want to look at your own driving too 👍

 

[dazdilly75]

I race people how they race me, if you consider me a dirty driver because of that you might want to look at your own driving too 👍

Lol

I've literally got videos of you driving like a donut. Like I said, I know you well. I remember all the dirty drivers. You assume its just against myself. How mistaken you are!

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

Lol

I've literally got videos of you driving like a donut. Like I said, I know you well. I remember all the dirty drivers. You assume its just against myself. How mistaken you are!

As I said, I race people how they race me. If somebody hits me off the road they can expect one back, if you have footage of that then great. If you have footage of me making a mistake and pulling over to apologise also great. Some in the community have very creativeminds and would try to edit those to remove that context.

 

[BasherB59]

Having watched a few You Tube videos about this and reading this thread... I've altered my opinion somewhat.

Ideally PD would have caught this pre-event and either changed the track choice or issued a pre-race warning. So that every driver knew where they stood regarding the "fair-play" Rules.

But failing that, can you really penalize those that optimize the track / game, after the event?
As if they noticed somebody else wall riding and not getting a Penalty, they'd see themselves at a disadvantage, by trying to race "clean" (i.e. only accidentally touching the wall).

If PD ensure that contact with any wall / barrier slows the car down & incurs damage, it will stop pretty quickly. Look at the Belgian F1 Grand Prix at Spa, last weekend, as an example. Instead of the usual huge swathe of concrete run off either side of the Track, they introduced more Gravel traps. In an effort to ensure that the Drivers didn't try to exploit Track Limits at certain High speed Corners.

 

[Famine]

This is the discussion thread for an article on GTPlanet:

Gran Turismo Driver Points Wiped After Widespread “Wall Riding” in Online Series​

Polyphony Digital has wiped driver and manufacturer points following a widely abused penalty system glitch in a Gran Turismo World Series Online Season 2 event...

 

[FerrariF40]

Lol

 

[BigSarj]

Lol

I've literally got videos of you driving like a donut. Like I said, I know you well. I remember all the dirty drivers. You assume its just against myself. How mistaken you are!

None of my business, I know, but this guy had an impossibly high CRB streak in GT Sport. I don't see that happening through dirty driving; especially in the days when breathing on someone got you a two second penalty

 

[CapraKiwi]

Great to see action taken. I would've gone in harder on them. Your points are wiped for that race, DQ'd from the next 2 nations and manufacturers, 3 million credit fine, watch the racing etiquette video again.

 

[FerrariF40]

I became only a dirty driver, if someone hits me multiple times bei purpose.

Then he deserves to be rammed from the track!

 

[FerrariF40]

Great to see action taken. I would've gone in harder on them. Your points are wiped for that race, DQ'd from the next 2 nations and manufacturers, 3 million credit fine, watch the racing etiquette video again.

Maybe send them to gulag as well? So that they learn their lesson.

 

[Auditore]

Everytime i see headlines like these i always fear that someone will be punished by mistake 😂 but regardless of that it's a good effort by PD, even if they don't catch most wallriders they might think twice knowing the consequences

 

[05XR8]

I don't see how players don't think PD are watching. Some things they may be slack with, but goodness. As if they won't find out. Oh, well. Good for Suzuki drivers.

 

[Imari]

Maybe send them to gulag as well? So that they learn their lesson.

Not enough. Break their thumbs so that they can never play again. Remember, sim racing is serious business that should be taken completely seriously.

IMO, Polyphony should be punishing themselves for making the game so badly as to allow such simple methods of exploiting the systems. You'd think that this was their first time running an online competition.

I don't see how players don't think PD are watching. Some things they may be slack with, but goodness. As if they won't find out. Oh, well. Good for Suzuki drivers.

It's not so much that they won't find out, but if the game lets you do it then it's sort of Polyphony's problem. It's not the player's fault that the game is badly designed, you can argue that it's the player's job to figure out the best way to go fast.

If there was a corner where you got a penalty for cutting but still gained time then everyone would use it and be right to do so. It would be Polyphony's fault for making a bad penalty system. I don't see this as any different, the players are being punished for Polyphony's mistake. If they want to have an international racing series then Polyphony have to do better than this, and Polyphony have to not blame other people when Polyphony ****s up.

 

[05XR8]

Not enough. Break their thumbs so that they can never play again. Remember, sim racing is serious business that should be taken completely seriously.

IMO, Polyphony should be punishing themselves for making the game so badly as to allow such simple methods of exploiting the systems. You'd think that this was their first time running an online competition.

It's not so much that they won't find out, but if the game lets you do it then it's sort of Polyphony's problem. It's not the player's fault that the game is badly designed, you can argue that it's the player's job to figure out the best way to go fast.

If there was a corner where you got a penalty for cutting but still gained time then everyone would use it and be right to do so. It would be Polyphony's fault for making a bad penalty system. I don't see this as any different, the players are being punished for Polyphony's mistake. If they want to have an international racing series then Polyphony have to do better than this, and Polyphony have to not blame other people when Polyphony ****s up.

I'm looking at it from the point of this is the developer that placed a barrier at a chicane(Spa) to deter players from cutting the course. The same developer that even an AI exploited track limits.
Yes, real racers exploit limits. No doubt. Gamers seek advantages for sure. I'm not blasting the players exploiting. I'm saying anything can happen and it just did. PD are unpredictable.

 

[Fezzik]

Having a good laugh at all the posts from the wall-riders defence league.

“Oh our guys were innocent, they didn’t know it was wrong”. The wall collision penalty setting was turned on for that race, should have been a clue to people. If they still did it they deserve to be punished. Finding an exploit to the penalty system is not a defence.

 

[Boxster]

Not enough. Break their thumbs so that they can never play again. Remember, sim racing is serious business that should be taken completely seriously.

IMO, Polyphony should be punishing themselves for making the game so badly as to allow such simple methods of exploiting the systems. You'd think that this was their first time running an online competition.

It's not so much that they won't find out, but if the game lets you do it then it's sort of Polyphony's problem. It's not the player's fault that the game is badly designed, you can argue that it's the player's job to figure out the best way to go fast.

If there was a corner where you got a penalty for cutting but still gained time then everyone would use it and be right to do so. It would be Polyphony's fault for making a bad penalty system. I don't see this as any different, the players are being punished for Polyphony's mistake. If they want to have an international racing series then Polyphony have to do better than this, and Polyphony have to not blame other people when Polyphony ****s up.

By the same logic you can say: I ram everyone off track who is trying to overtake me. The game allows it, so it's not my fault.

 

[05XR8]

By the same logic you can say: I ram everyone off track who is trying to overtake me. The game allows it, so it's not my fault.

There’s no rule for wall-riding, but there are rules and punishment/penalties for breaking etiquette.

 

[Imari]

Finding an exploit to the penalty system is not a defence.

Yeah, it is. You should probably watch Formula 1, your profile picture suggests that you would like it.

Yes, real racers exploit limits. No doubt. Gamers seek advantages for sure. I'm not blasting the players exploiting. I'm saying anything can happen and it just did. PD are unpredictable.

They certainly are unpredictable. I think that's not a particularly good thing for what is functionally the rules making body of an online sport. People aren't going to be enthused about driving in a series where they have to try to predict what the rules will be in the future.

Frankly, I think they should have just invalidated the whole round. That's pretty unexciting for players too, but at least it's consistent.

By the same logic you can say: I ram everyone off track who is trying to overtake me. The game allows it, so it's not my fault.

You can. You'll notice that the game allows you to steer your car in whatever direction you want.

You will be penalised (probably, Polyphony's system is pretty whack sometimes), and you may find that other drivers behaviour towards you is also altered in ways that you may find difficult. But if you find it to be consistently faster, then you probably should.

More likely you'll find that it causes people to actively target you for retribution, and the erratic driving required to do so puts you at greater risk of accidents, spins and off-tracks. So your average finish is probably going to be worse than if you drove hard but fair. But if you think this hyper-aggressive style is faster and the only reason people aren't doing it is courtesy then you're welcome to try.

You may also risk infringing on the "no unsportsmanlike conduct" rule that Polyphony explicitly has. Technically pretty much anything can be considered unsportsmanlike conduct if you bend the definition enough, but something like intentionally ramming other players has a lot of historical context to support it being viewed as unsportsmanlike. Whether Sony or Polyphony would care enough to take any action, and what action they might take would be up to you to evaluate.

 

[Boxster]

Yeah, it is. You should probably watch Formula 1, your profile picture suggests that you would like it.

They certainly are unpredictable. I think that's not a particularly good thing for what is functionally the rules making body of an online sport. People aren't going to be enthused about driving in a series where they have to try to predict what the rules will be in the future.

Frankly, I think they should have just invalidated the whole round. That's pretty unexciting for players too, but at least it's consistent.

You can. You'll notice that the game allows you to steer your car in whatever direction you want.

You will be penalised (probably, Polyphony's system is pretty whack sometimes), and you may find that other drivers behaviour towards you is also altered in ways that you may find difficult. But if you find it to be consistently faster, then you probably should.

More likely you'll find that it causes people to actively target you for retribution, and the erratic driving required to do so puts you at greater risk of accidents, spins and off-tracks. So your average finish is probably going to be worse than if you drove hard but fair. But if you think this hyper-aggressive style is faster and the only reason people aren't doing it is courtesy then you're welcome to try.

You may also risk infringing on the "no unsportsmanlike conduct" rule that Polyphony explicitly has. Technically pretty much anything can be considered unsportsmanlike conduct if you bend the definition enough, but something like intentionally ramming other players has a lot of historical context to support it being viewed as unsportsmanlike. Whether Sony or Polyphony would care enough to take any action, and what action they might take would be up to you to evaluate.

I can also see one important distinction: wall riding and other exploits are actions against environment, while ramming and punting are directly spoiling the race of another human player.

 

[Imari]

I can also see one important distinction: wall riding and other exploits are actions against environment, while ramming and punting are directly spoiling the race of another human player.

That's essentially what defines the edge of unsportsmanlike behaviour, to my mind. It's a fine line, but an important one.

 

[RallycrossGT]

Wall riding: Apply a harsh speed limiter like in the old Forza Motorsport game when you wall-ride for a second or two.

if this game had real damage simulation and you had body parts hanging off the car, wall-riding wouldn't be a thing. however, they focus too much on making the game too pretty and fail to make it a real simulator
GT is great... when you follow the rules. once you try doing anything the game didn't want you to do, physics go wild

 

[Fezzik]

I can also see one important distinction: wall riding and other exploits are actions against environment, while ramming and punting are directly spoiling the race of another human player.

if you use the wallriding to go faster, that is absolutely affecting and spoiling the races of those who aren’t cheating, eg you get a much faster exit and so can make an overtake at the next corner.

do it all you want in single player, but don’t pretend your actions aren’t influencing a competition against other people.

 

[dazdilly75]

My 8 year old son would probably have wom this round, as he is an expert wall rider. That kinda puts the whole thing into context.

 

[Auditore]

Not enough. Break their thumbs so that they can never play again. Remember, sim racing is serious business that should be taken completely seriously.

IMO, Polyphony should be punishing themselves for making the game so badly as to allow such simple methods of exploiting the systems. You'd think that this was their first time running an online competition.

I know wallriding has been an infamous part of every gt game but dumb exploits do happen in games,iRacing just had something similar with a Spa event(i think it was a line close to the grass that would give you a speed boost).
PD should absolutely fix their contact physics so the cars can't be able to wallride but punishing the drivers who went out of their way to use the exploit is fair,they're not banning anyone which would've been way too harsh

 

[Imari]

PD should absolutely fix their contact physics so the cars can't be able to wallride but punishing the drivers who went out of their way to use the exploit is fair,they're not banning anyone which would've been way too harsh

I don't think so, but it's definitely a choice that they have made.

It's probably fairer going forward. From now on everyone knows that if something similar is found that seems like a clever manipulation of game systems that goes against the spirit of what Polyphony would want they're actually at risk of being punished. The assumption in most games is that if something like this is found then it's fair game until it's patched. That has historically been the case in GT.

GT Academy USA is an example where something similar happened and they just scrapped the entire round. To my knowledge this is the first time Polyphony has taken widespread action against individuals instead of just patching the problem and carrying on.

 

[snelgrove77]

I'm personally glad that PD has taken this action. While this should never have been a problem in the first place, with online racing games there will always be a glitch where some drivers will be willing to take the unfair advantage. I did not use the wall riding technique and finished 4th which would of been 2nd as the two Brazilian drivers who finished 1-2 used the glitch in qualifying and the race. I'm glad to see the people who took this short cut got punished. Well done.

 

[pjmack]

They could wind back on their knee jerk response for the damage model for ANY contact with a barrier now. Since the update racing with damage on at Tokyo is impossible. The slightest touch results in damage.

 

[tekmoe]

Seems reasonable to me. Lucky they didn’t get banned

 

[B80]

if you use the wallriding to go faster, that is absolutely affecting and spoiling the races of those who aren’t cheating, eg you get a much faster exit and so can make an overtake at the next corner.

do it all you want in single player, but don’t pretend your actions aren’t influencing a competition against other people.

Yeah I don;t get that argument at all, quite clearly effecting the overall outcome for others by doing it. Its like saying its ok to take steroids/GH/PED's (although arguably most elite level athletes do anyway), but not ok to to trip/push someone in athletics.

both skew the outcome of the competition and integrity of the sport/competition.

 

[odeepaanh]

Probably a dumb question but how were they able to determine who abused the wall riding exploit?