Polyphony Digital partnership with Ayrton Senna Institute announced

[Johnnypenso]

PCars is a much smaller target audience and relies very much more on the sim community to get behind it. It needs to build up a fanbase that will fund it so it benefits greatly for interacting with the community.
GT really doesn't need to do this at all. They could release GT6 with 10 tracks and 50 cars (see GT5 Prologue) and it will still sell like crazy.

A few years ago, Blackberry was verging on being the "Kleenex" or "Windows" of mobile phones. They dominated the market to such a degree that one could not have envisioned in just a few years they'd be on the edge of bankruptcy. It's only because they were so dominant and build up such a large cash reserve that they aren't already in the can. Why? Because of the same attitude towards customers that you said above in particular, "It needs to build up a fanbase that will fund it so it benefits greatly for interacting with the community.
GT really doesn't need to do this at all"

This is a mistake. In business, unless you are selling a generic necessity like gasoline, it's always a mistake. History is littered with companies that thought that same way. When you begin to take your fans for granted as you are suggesting PD can afford to do, you are already on that path. You think fans don't come to this site and others to read about GT5? Ever see this number?

Total: 919 (members: 198, guests: 676)

There are nearly 250,000 members here at GTP, and routinely the Guest/Member ratio is 4 or 5 and sometimes higher. Often thousands of people at any one time are looking in on what is written here, and on other sites, to get feedback about the game. Some of them will make their initial decision on whether to buy the game at launch based on what they see and read here.

 

[Samus]

@Jordan
I posted about this another time before, but is it possible that we'll be getting that Ascari track and Ascari cars? I wanted to answer somebody when they asked, but I wasn't sure if it could be answered yet.
It's very possible that we won't... wink uh wink

I've seen you post something like this a couple of times about Ascari, if you know something just post it.

 

[Tenacious D]

Johnny, I can't agree with your premise at all.

What racer is like Gran Turismo? It's something of a "singularity." There is one game like it, but it's a copycat, and it only sells well in America. GT is a global phenomenon, as big as a shooter or sports game in sales. If every other racer was like GT, you'd have a point.

Plus, the naysayers are getting way too carried away over GT5. They make one klunker - never mind it's an extremely popular klunker! - and forever after, Kaz and PD are guilty of stupid-itis and Gran Turismo is in danger of becoming the new E.T. Anything is possible, metaphorically speaking, but it's virtually guaranteed that GT6 is going to sell out at launch, and have numbers ultimately on par with every other Gran Turismo. Including GT5, which supposedly a rather crummy game according to some here. It seems the gamers of this planet don't quite see it that way.

Despite all protestations, there is nothing really like Gran Turismo.

 

[Samus]

Johnny, I can't agree with your premise at all.

What racer is like Gran Turismo? It's something of a "singularity." There is one game like it, but it's a copycat, and it only sells well in America. GT is a global phenomenon, as big as a shooter or sports game in sales. If every other racer was like GT, you'd have a point.

Plus, the naysayers are getting way too carried away over GT5. They make one klunker - never mind it's an extremely popular klunker! - and forever after, Kaz and PD are guilty of stupid-itis and Gran Turismo is in danger of becoming the new E.T. Anything is possible, metaphorically speaking, but it's virtually guaranteed that GT6 is going to sell out at launch, and have numbers ultimately on par with every other Gran Turismo. Including GT5, which supposedly a rather crummy game according to some here. It seems the gamers of this planet don't quite see it that way.

Despite all protestations, there is nothing really like Gran Turismo.

Well let's wait and see, huh?

Oh and GT is hardly a global phenomenon, it sells far better in Europe than anywhere else and sales in Asia have always been rather weak.

 

[Johnnypenso]

Johnny, I can't agree with your premise at all.

What racer is like Gran Turismo? It's something of a "singularity." There is one game like it, but it's a copycat, and it only sells well in America. GT is a global phenomenon, as big as a shooter or sports game in sales. If every other racer was like GT, you'd have a point.

Plus, the naysayers are getting way too carried away over GT5. They make one klunker - never mind it's an extremely popular klunker! - and forever after, Kaz and PD are guilty of stupid-itis and Gran Turismo is in danger of becoming the new E.T. Anything is possible, metaphorically speaking, but it's virtually guaranteed that GT6 is going to sell out at launch, and have numbers ultimately on par with every other Gran Turismo. Including GT5, which supposedly a rather crummy game according to some here. It seems the gamers of this planet don't quite see it that way.

Despite all protestations, there is nothing really like Gran Turismo.

What part are you disagreeing with? You're basically saying that GT has a monopoly and therefore can agree to take it's fans for granted? Monopolies don't last. There has been an explosion in racing sims and it's now going to spill over into consoles with PCars and it won't be the last to do so. PCars1 sales won't even touch GT, but I hope it'll create enough buzz and therefore $$$ to fund a much better PCars2 to compete directly with GT on PS4.

 

[another_jakhole]

I've seen you post something like this a couple of times about Ascari, if you know something just post it.

And get banned?

I'll wait. You can go first about Ascari car(s).


Excuse me, while I double post.

 

[Samus]

And get banned?

I'll wait. You can go first about Ascari car(s).

Banned for what? Did Jordan tell you something in private?

 

[Tenacious D]

Well let's wait and see, huh?

Oh and GT is hardly a global phenomenon, it sells far better in Europe than anywhere else and sales in Asia have always been rather weak.

While this is true concerning sales in Asia, I'd quote our own amar212 on that:

When you check the official sales numbers here, you can see the great discrepancy in actual sales of GT5 in US/JP/Asian market and Europe - almost 5 million in EU/PAL and barely 2 million in US/JP/Asia combined.

Reasons for such difference in performance are speculative - history shows how Europe is GT-series strongest base in last 15 years, while decline in overall GT5 sales in US can be pretty much tied to leading position of X360 on US market and influence of the Forza series. In the same time, Japanese and Asian market have never been such strong markets for driving games in general, at least not when compared to EU/US.

Also, some blame for US sales should probably be tied to overall SCEA marketing of GT series in total. From my humble perspective they are just doing it wrong from the very beginning.

You'll have to take into account the fact that very few games with international market appeal do well in Asia. It's a very odd market - home to dating sims for instance. But can you name many other internationally released games, never mind racing games, that sold more than 1.1 million units in Asia to date? There aren't a lot, and every developer is going to value a million customers. So Gran Turismo is about as global as it gets.

What part are you disagreeing with? You're basically saying that GT has a monopoly and therefore can agree to take it's fans for granted? Monopolies don't last. There has been an explosion in racing sims and it's now going to spill over into consoles with PCars and it won't be the last to do so. PCars1 sales won't even touch GT, but I hope it'll create enough buzz and therefore $$$ to fund a much better PCars2 to compete directly with GT on PS4.

You're just restating your previous post. There are scads of other racers out there. The only other racer remotely like GT that wasn't Forza was Shift, and it was inconsequential save for technical and game feature debate points. There was Ferrari Challenge, but it was Ferrari-centric, and pretty much just a blip on the radar. And the rest are almost nothing but proper sims which had very small impact on Gran Turismo at all.

Take their fanbase for granted? I guess that's as good a phrasing as anything. But consider that the most direct competitor, Forza, so close it's essentially a clone, has had no discreet effect on Gran Turismo sales numbers. The slight dip from GT4 to GT5 figures for North America, all of 600K, are just as likely due to bad mouthing of the game.

You can call the fans blind sheep or whatever for glomming onto GT5 as if it was as well made as GT4, but you might consider the possibility that gamers just didn't feel as put off by the issues in it as we were here, and will buy GT6 like tacos as always. And GT7...

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

GT7 + PS4 = instant sale, even more so when GT6 core physics + tire and aero are as good as PD said ( improvement to more realism than GT5 ) or maybe better after ongoing updates throughout it's life. GT7 would be the title that sets a new bar in next gen console gaming, hopefully with Kaz learning the error of his ways too

 

[Johnnypenso]

Take their fanbase for granted? I guess that's as good a phrasing as anything. But consider that the most direct competitor, Forza, so close it's essentially a clone, has had no discreet effect on Gran Turismo sales numbers. The slight dip from GT4 to GT5 figures for North America, all of 600K, are just as likely due to bad mouthing of the game.

You can call the fans blind sheep or whatever for glomming onto GT5 as if it was as well made as GT4, but you might consider the possibility that gamers just didn't feel as put off by the issues in it as we were here, and will buy GT6 like tacos as always. And GT7...

Without realizing it, and I'm sure with your rose coloured GT glasses on you still won't get it, but you make my case for me.

The slight dip from GT4 to GT5 figures for North America, all of 600K, are just as likely due to bad mouthing of the game.

Since when is 600,000 units a slight dip? At $60 that $36,000,000 hardly a slight dip. And assuming you are right and it's about bad-mouthing, that is indeed my point:idea:. Word of mouth affects sales, and that's what you are stipulating.

Take this into consideration. No full GT game for many years before GT5. The game comes out and now it's online a whole new feature that should appeal to a whole new generation of gamers in addition to the existing fanbase which now has the option to play online and offline. New console to play on, way better graphics, more cars, more tracks. And yet it goes down by 600,000 you say. Had they stayed even in North America I would have considered that a step backwards given what I said above, but to go back 600K units, is a HUGE step backwards.

 

[amar212]

Johnny, I personally think how loss of US sales fpr GT series is much more about penetration of the X360 platform dring 2005-2010 period opposed to slow penetration of PS3 in the US during same era.

Unlike during PS2 times (2001-2006) when PS2 was also the US console of choice and GT3/GT4 were the console sims to play, X360 penetration and related COD succeess that affected friends-list and attachment ratio for 2nd and 3rd tier of adopters absolutely made all those people to naturally lean toward Forza, purely because those people didn't have PS3.

I would even argue how actuall decline of GT series sales in US was even smaller than I expected personally, although we agree about its significance. Also, it will be interesting to see how will US-focus of GT6 affect the sales in forecoming period.

 

[trustjab]

Yes @Johnnypenso that will do, that will do...



Where did I go off topic at? A direct quote would be nice.



It's ironic because you claim I've judged you and yet you say that I already decided about GT6, tell me what have I decided? We don't know all it's features you seem to agree with, but that is PD's fault. Also I love how you twisted what I said about following the trends in how PD works GT into public relations.



Trends obviously show us what to expect as I've said twice (actually more) now. How was it not a rebuttal or is being mad again your only way to coax me into leaving you alone? The part I placed in bold makes no sense, since I'm waiting for more info yet not a defender, also most who take your line of reasoning are fanatical fans. Also you quoted me if you think I'm just perpetuating an argument I've already offered to help put me on ignore, but if you want me to let you be why quote me? Also if you don't like people speaking against you why post at all on a public forum?

You still don't get it. The reply was not even a rebuttal. It was more of your opinions. Opinions you think are facts. No trend can tell you or I if PD is done giving out information. It cant tell us if he has more to market the game either. Thats why I said you can hold off your claims until the release day comes around. If PD does nothing from now till release, then you can say he didn't do enough marketing etc. Then again, thats still your opinion, even if a majority agrees with you. Opinions are not facts.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You still don't get it. The reply was not even a rebuttal. It was more of your opinions. Opinions you think are facts.

I've asked you already to expand on how it wasn't a rebuttal exactly, because from the way you've just passed it it is your opinion against mine. So it's more double standards about how I do something yet you do it and it's not the same. In other words I formulate an reason backed opinion and even use facts based on what PD has mainly done for a decade, if you don't think History doesn't dictate to an extent then that is your short coming.

No trend can tell you or I if PD is done giving out information. It cant tell us if he has more to market the game either. Thats why I said you can hold off your claims until the release day comes around.

No one is saying it's absolute, but it is a good guide in what to expect, furthermore are you saying trends don't work, if so then what are statistics for? Also the trend can get really close, hence why yet again people were right to say this console just like past consoles would have two GT games. Finally, if we hold off on release day what good does that do, all it shows is what I've said and that is no further info was given to drive some of us to purchase the game which is why this all started because PR/Marketing could be doing more. Waiting for the game to release then have to wait even longer for peer reviews and player input shouldn't happen. Also once again as I've said (repeating myself here) every other form of entertainment markets: Games, electronics, movies, television shows, etc. Still waiting on why PD gets a free pass to hold off this long, and why me and others have issues wanting more insight.

If PD does nothing from now till release, then you can say he didn't do enough marketing etc. Then again, thats still your opinion, even if a majority agrees with you. Opinions are not facts.

Actually it would be a fact because he didn't and it would also go along with the trend that you also think has nothing. It's easy to go lalalalala and not really argue, isn't it? You yet to clearly respond to my question and you rather argue around them. If this means nothing to you as you've said why have you still not put me on ignore?

 

[Mr P510]

I've seen you post something like this a couple of times about Ascari, if you know something just post it.

He knows as much as everyone else...otherwise he'd say.

 

[another_jakhole]

He knows as much as everyone else...otherwise he'd say.

PM'd

the gist...

Cars were scanned. It was at Ascari (if I'm not mistaken). We were told not to talk about it, but I didn't publicly post the pictures nor did I say what cars were scanned.

 

[trustjab]

I've asked you already to expand on how it wasn't a rebuttal exactly, because from the way you've just passed it it is your opinion against mine. So it's more double standards about how I do something yet you do it and it's not the same. In other words I formulate an reason backed opinion and even use facts based on what PD has mainly done for a decade, if you don't think History doesn't dictate to an extent then that is your short coming.

You go from saying the decisions they make are vague and asinine, to saying they're hype driven. Then talk about trends. That whole thing is your assumption, your perception. History is what? You don't have a point because its all a shared (but not factual) hypothesis. Thats why I said you act like you know PD's marketing choices. Or if they are even the one's who market the game. You don't have a clue as well as the rest of us. So stop pretending.

No one is saying it's absolute, but it is a good guide in what to expect, furthermore are you saying trends don't work, if so then what are statistics for? Also the trend can get really close, hence why yet again people were right to say this console just like past consoles would have two GT games. Finally, if we hold off on release day what good does that do, all it shows is what I've said and that is no further info was given to drive some of us to purchase the game which is why this all started because PR/Marketing could be doing more. Waiting for the game to release then have to wait even longer for peer reviews and player input shouldn't happen. Also once again as I've said (repeating myself here) every other form of entertainment markets: Games, electronics, movies, television shows, etc. Still waiting on why PD gets a free pass to hold off this long, and why me and others have issues wanting more insight.

Here we go, again. You are selectively reading, or just not comprehending. I said you can say PD's marketing or previewing of the game is "vague and asinine" in about a month if they don't do anything to promote the game further. Your history talk is irrelevant since the so called trend can change in a single day if Sony so wishes it.

Actually it would be a fact because he didn't and it would also go along with the trend that you also think has nothing. It's easy to go lalalalala and not really argue, isn't it? You yet to clearly respond to my question and you rather argue around them. If this means nothing to you as you've said why have you still not put me on ignore?

For you maybe it's fact. People who buy the game or preorder it may feel differently. But you can argue all you'd like that your opinions are fact. I responded because you misquote me or misunderstand what I am talking about. I don't need to ignore you. Your posts aren't really taken seriously by me. Im just replying to clarify myself.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

You go from saying the decisions they make are vague and asinine, to saying they're hype driven. Then talk about trends. That whole thing is your assumption, your perception. History is what? You don't have a point because its all a shared (but not factual) hypothesis. Thats why I said you act like you know PD's marketing choices. Or if they are even the one's who market the game. You don't have a clue as well as the rest of us. So stop pretending.

Hold on so I make a multi tiered argument and that's wrong why? I can't make multiple points as to why, is this your first time arguing or seeing one unfold, have you ever argued for a humanities or global studies class in college or some educational structure? I understand this is off topic but I ask to see where you're coming from so we can get on the same page. Or is this now out of spite at this point?

The decisions are vague and asinine, they give us a cover page or list of what they want to give us (like in the past) and then you are given no real description in to what or how it fully is implemented. Thus the idea of it is hype driven and never fully talked about and then we have issues later on as seen with GT2, GT4 and GT5. Which brings me into how there can be a feasible trend to how things unfold with PD and their GT games which is formulated based on history. I've just shown you how they are interlinked. It doesn't read like a scatterbrained type plot.

How is it not factual when history shows they do the same thing over and over again? I don't know their PR, what I know is they don't show us very much info, if you can tell me in great detail what we know that might help your argument, but no instead you are coming at it from this aspect that "don't worry just wait for it to come on then if you like it go buy it". Problem is I like the series and have since GT1, but they don't seem to think they need to capture the attention of us because they expect us to automatically buy it would seem.

Here we go, again. You are selectively reading, or just not comprehending. I said you can say PD's marketing or previewing of the game is "vague and asinine" in about a month if they don't do anything to promote the game further. Your history talk is irrelevant since the so called trend can change in a single day if Sony so wishes it.

One blip doesn't change overall, it'd need to match a similar time frame of change to be fully shown. One time doesn't quantify over all the other times it went the opposite direction. I also know what you said, but it is still dismissive once again why should people wait, for example, why not tell us what this Senna content fully is. So far we understand that we will get to play his career but how exactly. It fine to ask this because many who play sims know that F1 license are impossible to get so the idea of racing as Senna in F1 is out the window. So realistically that leaves Kart and possibly F3 and Formula Ford, but the need an FIA license which PD has had trouble with in the past. Thus as a fan and potential buyer it helps to give us information, but that is just one of many examples. Another that is massive example, would be how they vaguely sold the standard cars idea.

For you maybe it's fact. People who buy the game or preorder it may feel differently. But you can argue all you'd like that your opinions are fact. I responded because you misquote me or misunderstand what I am talking about. I don't need to ignore you. Your posts aren't really taken seriously by me. Im just replying to clarify myself.

Well from the small amount that we see on here it is different obviously and you can read and easily see what they base the purchase on for the most part, and it is a love for GT unconditionally. Never once did I say my opinions are facts and if I have then why hasn't a Mod stopped this to tell me I'm breaking AUP? Better yet why haven't you reported me due to the offense. I am making a claim based on empirical evidence over a long duration of time. You still haven't debunked why it's wrong but instead have opted to just say "no, that's an opinion and that's it", show me contrary evidence, you tout how I am supposedly using no facts but you yourself are doing this double standard of and not giving much for evidence yourself. I understand what your saying because you keep saying it over and over when you reply, thus I still question why, unless you are some sort of masochist.

 

[trustjab]

Just give it up. Your wall of text isnt worth a reply. Youve taken your stance, we get it. Save yourself the time by not replying to me, and I won't bother trying to convince you why making assumptions about how PD operates is also a waste of time. Instead of trying to find a meaningless trend that doesn't exist, or try to back track on your non-facts, you could look for marketing that they have done and are doing? Like this promotion in Canada where guessing the correct cars could win you a car- http://unlockgreatness.ca/ Darn that PD/Sony! They aren't doing anything to push this game!

 

[sems4arsenal]

PM'd

the gist...

Cars were scanned. It was at Ascari (if I'm not mistaken). We were told not to talk about it, but I didn't publicly post the pictures nor did I say what cars were scanned.

Can you share them privatley (understand if you don't).

 

[amar212]

Well, I will give you one huge marketing activity from this weekend.

A special TV episode about German GT Academy 2013 filmed by RTL Gemany about German finalists on Silverstone finale that aired prior to F1 Yas Marine qualify on Saturday.

And RTL Germany probably have best watching-index at that particular time due to the huge popularity of F1 in Germany.

It is not "classic" marketing, nor GT has been doing classic marketing for some time now. Besides, you will hear about something new (old, but new) later today and probably will again try to downplay it because it is not important to you personally.

 

[TokoTurismo]

Any possible news is fine by me, as always of course, teehaha.

 

[sems4arsenal]

Well, I will give you one huge marketing activity from this weekend.

A special TV episode about German GT Academy 2013 filmed by RTL Gemany about German finalists on Silverstone finale that aired prior to F1 Yas Marine qualify on Saturday.

And RTL Germany probably have best watching-index at that particular time due to the huge popularity of F1 in Germany.

It is not "classic" marketing, nor GT has been doing classic marketing for some time now. Besides, you will hear about something new (old, but new) later today and probably will again try to downplay it because it is not important to you personally.

 

[fortbo]

Well, I will give you one huge marketing activity from this weekend.

A special TV episode about German GT Academy 2013 filmed by RTL Gemany about German finalists on Silverstone finale that aired prior to F1 Yas Marine qualify on Saturday.

And RTL Germany probably have best watching-index at that particular time due to the huge popularity of F1 in Germany.

It is not "classic" marketing, nor GT has been doing classic marketing for some time now. Besides, you will hear about something new (old, but new) later today and probably will again try to downplay it because it is not important to you personally.

I hope you don't mind me asking you this,but what do you mean by it is "old but new"?

 

[sems4arsenal]

maybe a rumored track/feature being confirmed.

 

[G.T.Ace]

Well, I will give you one huge marketing activity from this weekend.

A special TV episode about German GT Academy 2013 filmed by RTL Gemany about German finalists on Silverstone finale that aired prior to F1 Yas Marine qualify on Saturday.

And RTL Germany probably have best watching-index at that particular time due to the huge popularity of F1 in Germany.

It is not "classic" marketing, nor GT has been doing classic marketing for some time now. Besides, you will hear about something new (old, but new) later today and probably will again try to downplay it because it is not important to you personally.

I watched Futurama instead yesterday...
So, what was it?

EDIT: Or do you mean we will get more "news" soon?

 

[Tornado]

ITT: GT6: The Real Assuming Assumptions simulator.

 

[Soundtrack]

"old but new" could be a feature of the game expanded to more assets (time/weather for all tracks?). Thankfully "later today" is pretty straightforward.

 

[fortbo]

"old but new" could be a feature of the game expanded to more assets (time/weather for all tracks?). Thankfully "later today" is pretty straightforward.

So when are we going to get this news, and what website will it be on?

 

[screp RC]

Is the GT6 liveried Corvette Stingray from SEMA the "old but new" that you were talking about Mr. Amar212 ?

 

[The Stig Farmer]

Is the GT6 liveried Corvette Stingray from SEMA the "old but new" that you were talking about Mr. Amar212 ?

GT6 liveried Corvette Stingray from SEMA?

You mean this?

This?

Or this?