Porsche 991 Information Released

[SPhilli911]

It's been said several times in this thread, there is no market at this time for the GT2 in the eyes of Porsche.

There is always a market for wild, special edition, rare 911s, people eat that stuff up, just like this 911R thing. There will most certainly be a 991 GT2 and GT2 RS, most likely at the end of the 991.5 generation. So sure, we probably wont see the car anytime soon, but eventually.

 

[TheCracker]

GT3 would need to lose the rear wing at a minimum to ever be called discrete.

In a plainer colour, I'd say it's somewhat more discrete than a sky blue one with orange wheels and highlights (RS) and probably, in most eyes, more discrete than the R's two red stripes and 'Porsche' legend down its lower flanks.

I think out of all the most recent 996, 997 & 991's as a car to actually use frequently. My pic would probably be this 911R, but just with the red stripes deleted. It seems to be the best compromise. But then I start thinking Metzger...

 

[homeforsummer]

Metzger...

*Mezger

Had a very brief look at the car at Geneva. Certainly appealing. Though parked near the Cayman GT4, and located a few minutes' walk away from RUF's utterly wonderful offerings, it did strike me how much space the 991 now takes up on the road, particularly in wide-body form like most now seem to be. It's still actually relatively compact by modern standards, but I can't help feeling like 911s would be even better if Porsche found some way of shrinking them again.

That's my long-winded way of saying I'd prefer a GT4. Though I do think the basic 991 shape is more attractive than that of a Cayman.

 

[Clark]

i was about to mention the size funnily enough @homeforsummer , makes me think how awesome a 997 '911R' would've been with the GT3 RS 4.0 engine. Anybody good at PS?

 

[Stotty]

Re; the Mezger...

I've never heard a word of criticism for the engine in the GT 991's other than to say it doesn't rattle like a Mezger as it lacks the LWFW (which apparently you can have back if you want to pay €2,500 for the option available on the R. It's a 4.0l na with 500bhp that revs to c.9k and sounds like it belongs on a GT3 grid. It's a thing of wonder. The King is dead. Long live the King.

In a plainer colour, I'd say it's somewhat more discrete than a sky blue one with orange wheels and highlights (RS) and probably, in most eyes, more discrete than the R's two red stripes and 'Porsche' legend down its lower flanks.

As I've said here and on other forums, it's needs to lose the stripes, gain a small ducktail and be available in more colours than white and silver. In dark metallic grey it would look fabulous. Or even a brighter metallic like cobalt. Neither white or sliver are the colours for the shape.

.
... it did strike me how much space the 991 now takes up on the road, particularly in wide-body form like most now seem to be... I can't help feeling like 911s would be even better if Porsche found some way of shrinking them again.

Agree with this. Amazing how much the 911 grew from the 997 to the 991, particularly in width (the longer wheelbase hides the length increase really well. But that's been a trend for all cars over the past 10 years

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

There is always a market for wild, special edition, rare 911s, people eat that stuff up, just like this 911R thing. There will most certainly be a 991 GT2 and GT2 RS, most likely at the end of the 991.5 generation. So sure, we probably wont see the car anytime soon, but eventually.

Porsche themselves said there wouldn't, so not sure why people are arguing with something me and others reported Porsche saying (read the thread). The 911 manager himself said that the viability for niche car from a group that doesn't need to make it is why it was on the chopping block. This was also around the time that supposedly all 911s were slated to have turbos in the future. Now both things are looked to be over turned.

The 911R thing was eaten up due to Porsche knowing that a large group of their buyer base wasn't fully committed to the DSG, and wanted a "proper" 911. Along with the love affair many of those fans have with older Porsche and want that in the modern era of the company also played a role. And I'd suspect that the Cayman GT4 also played a part with the love it got for having a manual gear box. The point is Porsche are telling the world, we will build these special models so long as we know they'll sell and have a purpose, but Porsche aren't a group to saturate the market with them so they could easily stop making certain ones. At the time the RS was one of those.

 

[VXR]

If Porsche true believed that they were building a 911 to satisfy those who really wanted a manual, why is it not a general release model, rather than offered to buyers of the 918? If they can sell these to 918 owners, I bet they could sell a limited run GT2 that way.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

If Porsche true believed that they were building a 911 to satisfy those who really wanted a manual, why is it not a general release model, rather than offered to buyers of the 918? If they can sell these to 918 owners, I bet they could sell a limited run GT2 that way.

Ask Porsche, I'm sure the reason the GT2 is back on for development is due to what you've just said. However, Porshce have a history of doing what ever they feel like doing at any given time when it comes to their ambitions despite what fans may or may not think.

 

[Stotty]

The noise

If Porsche true believed that they were building a 911 to satisfy those who really wanted a manual, why is it not a general release model, rather than offered to buyers of the 918? If they can sell these to 918 owners, I bet they could sell a limited run GT2 that way.

You can but any other 991 model with a manual box. But customer uptake on manuals is tiny... just go try and find a manual 991 GTS for example. They are rare as rocking horse ****.

Rumor is the 991.2 GT3 will be available with manual or DCT, but the next RS will be DCT only.

No word on a GT2, but I'd be massively surprised if we didn't see one in 2017.

 

[DRLOVE]

The noise





You can but any other 991 model with a manual box. But customer uptake on manuals is tiny... just go try and find a manual 991 GTS for example. They are rare as rocking horse ****.

Rumor is the 991.2 GT3 will be available with manual or DCT, but the next RS will be DCT only.

No word on a GT2, but I'd be massively surprised if we didn't see one in 2017.

Isn't the 911R basically the 911GT3 RS with a manual gearbox and without the body-kit. It also uses the same engine as the GT3 RS.

 

[SPhilli911]

Porsche themselves said there wouldn't, so not sure why people are arguing with something me and others reported Porsche saying (read the thread). The 911 manager himself said that the viability for niche car from a group that doesn't need to make it is why it was on the chopping block. This was also around the time that supposedly all 911s were slated to have turbos in the future. Now both things are looked to be over turned.

The 911R thing was eaten up due to Porsche knowing that a large group of their buyer base wasn't fully committed to the DSG, and wanted a "proper" 911. Along with the love affair many of those fans have with older Porsche and want that in the modern era of the company also played a role. And I'd suspect that the Cayman GT4 also played a part with the love it got for having a manual gear box. The point is Porsche are telling the world, we will build these special models so long as we know they'll sell and have a purpose, but Porsche aren't a group to saturate the market with them so they could easily stop making certain ones. At the time the RS was one of those.

Where are you getting your information? Porsche is a company that makes the same cars over and over and over, you really think they will ditch the 991 GT2 because they can't sell it? Of course they can sell it, Porsche can sell a 911 in any variation at any time, especially the limited run models like the GT2.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1085067_new-911-gt2-coming-says-porsche-exec
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/06/scoop-porsche-goes-ballistic-with-new.html

 

[VXR]

I'm guessing the car in the second link was a GT3 RS cooling mule.

 

[Stotty]

Isn't the 911R basically the 911GT3 RS with a manual gearbox and without the body-kit. It also uses the same engine as the GT3 RS.

Yes, it's pretty much an RS without the wing. It does have re-tuned 4WS and steering, plus different spring rates and underbody aero (to help balance the loss of rear wing).

 

[DRLOVE]

Yes, it's pretty much an RS without the wing. It does have re-tuned 4WS and steering, plus different spring rates and underbody aero (to help balance the loss of rear wing).

The 911 GT3 RS will still have the edge on the track: Paddle shifters will always have better performance but nothing can replicate the feel of a manual.

 

[Stotty]

RS would destroy the R on track - as well as the DCT advantage, it has much more aero. The guy on Rennlist who's driven one on track (and has his own RS) says the RS is a lot more stable in the higher speed corners.

R's not meant to be a track car... though I'm sure it will be quicker than most tings should you decide to take it out there

 

[SPhilli911]

Honestly, I'd anger a lot of people and put an RS wing on my 911R. That or I'd wait til they put a manual in the GT3 RS, which I think they are planning to do with the 991.5? Either way, I'm never going to own these cars anyways, but I can dream.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Where are you getting your information? Porsche is a company that makes the same cars over and over and over, you really think they will ditch the 991 GT2 because they can't sell it? Of course they can sell it, Porsche can sell a 911 in any variation at any time, especially the limited run models like the GT2.

http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1085067_new-911-gt2-coming-says-porsche-exec
http://www.carscoops.com/2013/06/scoop-porsche-goes-ballistic-with-new.html

As I said read the thread, they did at one point have the GT2 RS (GT2) up for getting axed by the company. It's not what I think more so what Porsche themselves said (as I've said several times and you continually ignore). Also they don't make the same cars over and over, I find the statement strange for a "car enthusiast" to make, and more a blanket statement for the average person of some car knowledge. Porsche has always sought out to make halo versions of the 911 or just entierly new halo cars of their own merit. This hardly stands as "making the same car over and over" as if all they build and will build is Carrera S models or something.

Also yet again, it's not what I think they can or can't do, you need to actually read what I'm posting and not rearrange it. At one time Porsche had the car slated for no return or potential no return. Just cause they can sell you the lint out of their pockets doesn't mean they necessarily want to or see a purpose in doing so. This is the same company that makes a ton of money each year but will only build so many cars, even though they could build more and make more(monetarily).

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/porsche-911-gt2-fate-uncertain/

Edit: also if you did actually read, you'd have seen I already touched base on the supposed return of the GT2 in the upcoming years ahead in a previous post of mine. Thus the links would have been moot.

 

[VXR]

I took that same cars over and over line to mean each generation sees the return of the Carrera S, Targa, Turbo etc, not a glib all 911s are the same each time?

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

I took that same cars over and over line to mean each generation sees the return of the Carrera S, Targa, Turbo etc, not a glib all 911s are the same each time?

Every gen should see that since for decades that's been the undertone of how Porsche operates. To give you what you'd expect at each bracket of what one could ideally afford as they go up the 911 branch. But there are options obviously when shopping for a Porsche. It's no longer 911 or 911. Because I took the line to mean that that's all you're going to get with Porsche over and over and over.

 

[SPhilli911]

As I said read the thread, they did at one point have the GT2 RS (GT2) up for getting axed by the company. It's not what I think more so what Porsche themselves said (as I've said several times and you continually ignore). Also they don't make the same cars over and over, I find the statement strange for a "car enthusiast" to make, and more a blanket statement for the average person of some car knowledge. Porsche has always sought out to make halo versions of the 911 or just entierly new halo cars of their own merit. This hardly stands as "making the same car over and over" as if all they build and will build is Carrera S models or something.

Also yet again, it's not what I think they can or can't do, you need to actually read what I'm posting and not rearrange it. At one time Porsche had the car slated for no return or potential no return. Just cause they can sell you the lint out of their pockets doesn't mean they necessarily want to or see a purpose in doing so. This is the same company that makes a ton of money each year but will only build so many cars, even though they could build more and make more(monetarily).

http://www.digitaltrends.com/cars/porsche-911-gt2-fate-uncertain/

Edit: also if you did actually read, you'd have seen I already touched base on the supposed return of the GT2 in the upcoming years ahead in a previous post of mine. Thus the links would have been moot.

It's possible to have a friendly argument without saying I can't read. I think I can read good! I've obviously not read through the entire thread, but your claim on the previous page...

It's been said several times in this thread, there is no market at this time for the GT2 in the eyes of Porsche.

...seems to contradict what you are saying now and I've clearly misread what you are writing. It's well known that the return of GT2 was at one point was questionable as your link from 2014 supports, but it seemed to me that you were stating that the GT2 was definitely not making a return according to Porsche themselves. When, we now know as of last year, there are plans for a 991 GT2.

Let's argue like adults from now on okay? And next time I will read all 10 pages of the thread first.

I took that same cars over and over line to mean each generation sees the return of the Carrera S, Targa, Turbo etc, not a glib all 911s are the same each time?

This is how I meant it. Porsche typically launches the same model each generation.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

It's possible to have a friendly argument without saying I can't read. I think I can read good! I've obviously not read through the entire thread, but your claim on the previous page...

No where do I say you're illiterate. I've only claimed that you seem to ignore or overlook sections of what I've written out.

...seems to contradict what you are saying now and I've clearly misread what you are writing. It's well known that the return of GT2 was at one point was questionable as your link from 2014 supports, but it seemed to me that you were stating that the GT2 was definitely not making a return according to Porsche themselves. When, we now know as of last year, there are plans for a 991 GT2.

Sorry if that was the implication, as that wasn't what I was trying to say rather just debating the reasons why Porsche could at the drop of the hat cancel or come out with one off 911s, as is the case with the 911R.

Let's argue like adults from now on okay? And next time I will read all 10 pages of the thread first.


This is how I meant it. Porsche typically launches the same model each generation.

I've argued like most adults do here, if there is a notion or post that seems to continually neglect what has been said people will tend to believe their words are being twisted or just plain ignored. Thus not implying you can't read at all but are deciding not to read or digest what I've been trying to get across. However, this post clearly sums up obvious misgivings on both our parts which I have apologized for and you seem to have already done as well.

Never stopped arguing like an adult, just found it strange to see what seemed as parts of my argument being ignored.

As for the same car bit, I took it that way as well, but also claimed that it isn't that simplistic, when every generation has had special version of the 911 and other Porsche models as well. Along with each generation for the past 20 years having a halo car from the group as well. So from that point, I find it hard to see what the issue is with how they run (if there is an issue at all which may not be the case)

 

[Tornado]

No matter what lip service Porsche gave to the contrary, they were never not going to make a GT2 eventually.

 

[lxmmy]

GT3 RS is priced at £250-280,000 and they aren't exactly high in demand compared to the normal GT3. And throwing the 911 R into the mix then Porsche will create a surplus if they make this GT2 so this would have monopoly effect on depreciation of the prices. It's not how it was before as now Porsche face competition from Ferrari, McLaren and Lamborghini.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

GT3 RS is priced at £250-280,000 and they aren't exactly high in demand compared to the normal GT3. And throwing the 911 R into the mix then Porsche will create a surplus if they make this GT2 so this would have monopoly effect on depreciation of the prices. It's not how it was before as now Porsche face competition from Ferrari, McLaren and Lamborghini.

Exactly and part of that market saturation they try to avoid or seem to. Which is why when they first claimed it was going to be axed, it made sense. It was sad that the greatest 911 as far as overall performance would not be seen again (GT2 RS) but understandable due to the super niche status it had. Now it all just seems too much with a bit of each special model taking place in the others territory.

 

[FT-1]

GT3 RS is priced at £250-280,000....

How did you reach that figure? Brand new ones are available for half that much (Via Porsche UK website)

 

[Clark]

You can't buy a brand new one anymore. And you'll only get one at double the price the owner paid for it.

Notice how the 911R is on the configurator but they've already sold all 991 of them.

 

[Stotty]

GT3 RS is priced at £250-280,000 and they aren't exactly high in demand compared to the normal GT3. And throwing the 911 R into the mix then Porsche will create a surplus if they make this GT2 so this would have monopoly effect on depreciation of the prices. It's not how it was before as now Porsche face competition from Ferrari, McLaren and Lamborghini.

No they won't.

The demand for these type of cars far outstrips supply. Of course demand for a flipped 991RS at £280k will be lower than the £150k it was new, or when compared to a £160k flipped GT3, but Porsche could have produced 3/4/5 times more GT3's/RS/R's and still sold them all.

The apparent lack of turn on RS's is nothing to do with desire, it's a reflection of the softening in the collectors market over the past 6 months as people realise just how stupid pricing has become and start to worry about buying at the top of the market. RS's will settle down to c.£200k over the next 6 months, and GT3's will soften to c.£120k... JZM have just sold a LHD RS with 230 miles on it for £205k, and RHD GT3's are already back down to £140k from a high of £170k last summer.

Porsche have faced competition from Ferrari and Lamborghini for decades and still continue to sell all the GT models they want. If Porsche make 1,000 991 GT2's Worldwide, they will sell every one without an issue and they will trade at a premium.

 

[FT-1]

You can't buy a brand new one anymore. And you'll only get one at double the price the owner paid for it.

Notice how the 911R is on the configurator but they've already sold all 991 of them.

Oh right, I was under the impression they were still being sold brand new.

 

[lxmmy]

How did you reach that figure? Brand new ones are available for half that much (Via Porsche UK website)
View attachment 522155

Used one from a certified Porsche dealer.

 

[Tornado]

Porsche doesn't need to worry if their new ultimate 911 costs in line with (or, more realistically, less than) the prices of the used previously ultimate 911. It's the same reason Porsche won't be bothered with the pricing of the current 911 Turbo as it relates to the 993 equivalent even as the 993 goes up and up and up and up. People will snap all of them up regardless, even if only to try and feed into the same market that makes them cost twice MSRP short term.