Porsche Cayman GT4 2016

I think it's a two-part thing in this case.

With the 991 GT3, PDK fits the ethos of the car whether manual purists like it or not - the GT3 is a track-focused car that represents the technical capabilities the company has to make a faster product. Since PDK is the more effective transmission for the track and demonstrates Porsche's technical capabilities, it's a natural fit.

With the Cayman GT4, the idea is a little different. It's not as fast as the 911 anyway, but it is smaller, lighter, nimbler, less expensive etc - therefore a manual transmission, which prioritises fun over speed, makes more sense.

I think Porsche is too clever to phase out something that many of its customers still want. I can only assume they decided that customers of the GT3 would be drawn to the race-car style nature of PDK at the expense of a little more interaction, while customers of the GT4 are knowingly buying something that's inherently a little more raw.
 
But as they said with it's not just a case of swapping the transmission. The suspension set up is different for the 991 GT3 because it's engineered to work with the smoother changes of the PDK.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
Or they could just offer both transmissions in both cars.
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Clark
But as they said with it's not just a case of swapping the transmission. The suspension set up is different for the 991 GT3 because it's engineered to work with the smoother changes of the PDK.
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^ This. It's no longer as simple as just bunging in whatever transmissions you have lying around, so instead manufacturers tailor cars to what they think will work best for the car and that car's audience.

It really is as simple as I put it before: 991 GT3 = technical showcase and pure speed, Cayman GT4 = focus on fun.

I shouldn't need to point out that the only people who complain about the GT3 not being manual are... those without the money to buy a GT3. While those who've actually driven it suggest the PDK is so perfectly matched to the character of the car you don't miss the manual.
 
homeforsummer
^ This. It's no longer as simple as just bunging in whatever transmissions you have lying around, so instead manufacturers tailor cars to what they think will work best for the car and that car's audience.

It really is as simple as I put it before: 991 GT3 = technical showcase and pure speed, Cayman GT4 = focus on fun.

I shouldn't need to point out that the only people who complain about the GT3 not being manual are... those without the money to buy a GT3. While those who've actually driven it suggest the PDK is so perfectly matched to the character of the car you don't miss the manual.
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Chris Harris: "But I think a GT3 -- Or maybe not a GT3, but a car built by Porsche the shape of a 911 with this engine -- should be the last bastion of the manual gearchange. I think it's a massive shame that they haven't made this car with a manual gearbox...I do miss the fact that it's not a manual."



(Chris Harris has owned a 997 GT3 RS 4.0, a Ferrari 599 GTB, a Ferrari FF, a Porsche 911 2.7 restomod, a Ferrari 512TR, a Citroen 2CV and others)


Jethro Bovingdon, Evo: "Do I miss the manual? Yeah, I do, a little bit I'm afraid...that sense of connection, the physical exertion you needed with the manual gearbox..."


To have, effectively, Porsche's #1 911 cheerleading journalist (Chris Harris) and Porsche's #1 911 cheerleading magazine (Evo) both be disappointed with the GT3's lack of a manual gearbox is telling.

Autocar's Steve Sutcliffe does align more closely with what you say, though. The US based magazines (which I argue are growing in international prominence, especially Motor Trend) seem a little more indifferent.

The point is that part of Porsche's core customer base has been undoubtedly disappointed that the GT3 was not offered with a manual. It makes even less sense to me because the 7 speed DCT and the 7 speed manual are largely the same, which means that it should be quite easy to interchange them in any given chassis configuration.

It would be incredibly stupid for me to do so, but I could buy a 991 GT3 tomorrow if I wanted. I don't think I could ever justify spending more than 30-40k on a car, period, no matter how wealthy I was.
 
Most people have actually said in the reviews though, including the CHOC and EVO ones you posted, that the 991 GT3 is too fast for a manual 'box.
 
Clark
Most people have actually said in the reviews though, including the CHOC and EVO ones you posted, that the 991 GT3 is too fast for a manual 'box.
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While I don't think the 991 GT3 is quite at that point (having never driven one, mind you) I do think this is getting at the inherent problem of the absurd performance of today's street cars. If a car is too fast for a manual gearbox (I would argue that the F12, Aventador and others definitely are) then we must start to think, "is this car simply too fast period?"

I've been fortunate to drive several 500+ hp cars. In my opinion, I can't understand the point of having more than that on the road.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
To have, effectively, Porsche's #1 911 cheerleading journalist (Chris Harris) and Porsche's #1 911 cheerleading magazine (Evo) both be disappointed with the GT3's lack of a manual gearbox is telling.
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That's rather selectively quoted, though. Both Harris and evo absolutely love the GT3 - it not only rates as one of the best cars evo has tested thus far but also walked away with evo Car of the Year in 2013. I can't say the lack of manual 'box has been a big talking point in the office - in fact manuals in general aren't something people seem to bang on about that much.

And diving further into those videos, both Harris and Bov are quite positive about the PDK - you missed off the little chunk of Harris's sentence where he's saying "...but I can't beat up the car because it's so good". Or Bovingdon's, "do you miss the six-speed gearbox? On a circuit, not as much as you'd think... PDK makes the performance so accessible" and a little later on, "the engine and 'box are incredible."

The difference in what we've posted is essentially the difference in their subjective and objective assessments. And what I've said is still the case here - objectively, the GT3 is a better car for the PDK. Which is why Porsche has done it. Their aim was to make it a faster car, not necessarily a more involving one.

Not to mention that you point out yourself a few journalists who don't mind either way or actively prefer the PDK...

Either way, that's where the GT4 comes in. My original point was that the GT3 is Porsche's display of what it can technically achieve to make a fast car, the GT4, blessed with less performance in the first place, serves a different role to which the manual is better suited.
Eunos_Cosmo
I've been fortunate to drive several 500+ hp cars. In my opinion, I can't understand the point of having more than that on the road.
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That's a whole other subject, though having been in a similar position I'd tend to agree. In the UK, you can take another hundred or two horsepower from that figure and it would still be the case.
 
homeforsummer
That's rather selectively quoted, though. Both Harris and evo absolutely love the GT3 - it not only rates as one of the best cars evo has tested thus far but also walked away with evo Car of the Year in 2013. I can't say the lack of manual 'box has been a big talking point in the office - in fact manuals in general aren't something people seem to bang on about that much.

And diving further into those videos, both Harris and Bov are quite positive about the PDK - you missed off the little chunk of Harris's sentence where he's saying "...but I can't beat up the car because it's so good". Or Bovingdon's, "do you miss the six-speed gearbox? On a circuit, not as much as you'd think... PDK makes the performance so accessible" and a little later on, "the engine and 'box are incredible."

The difference in what we've posted is essentially the difference in their subjective and objective assessments. And what I've said is still the case here - objectively, the GT3 is a better car for the PDK. Which is why Porsche has done it. Their aim was to make it a faster car, not necessarily a more involving one.

Not to mention that you point out yourself a few journalists who don't mind either way or actively prefer the PDK...

Either way, that's where the GT4 comes in. My original point was that the GT3 is Porsche's display of what it can technically achieve to make a fast car, the GT4, blessed with less performance in the first place, serves a different role to which the manual is better suited.

That's a whole other subject, though having been in a similar position I'd tend to agree. In the UK, you can take another hundred or two horsepower from that figure and it would still be the case.
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I think this is where we diverge. Yes, the GT3 is objectively better because of the DCT, especially on a track. But I think it's foolish to buy a new production road car for going to the track. If I wanted a race car, I would want one with a sequential dog box, not a DCT. Subjectively, on the street, it becomes a grey area. Because of this greyness and subjectivity, I feel the car should be offered with both gearboxes.
 
Eunos_Cosmo
I think this is where we diverge. Yes, the GT3 is objectively better because of the DCT, especially on a track. But I think it's foolish to buy a new production road car for going to the track. If I wanted a race car, I would want one with a sequential dog box, not a DCT. Subjectively, on the street, it becomes a grey area. Because of this greyness and subjectivity, I feel the car should be offered with both gearboxes.
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And really, it's a bit silly buying a GT3 with a half-cage, stiff suspension and more power than you'll ever use if you're not going to the track... The GT3 isn't a race car but it is a heavily track-focused road car. If you wanted a road-focused 911 you'd buy one of the non-GT3 ones, including the GTS that @kikie mentions (which is available with a manual or PDK, natch).
 
Love this GT4 very much.
That said, I'm not oppossed to a pdk and will probably take a dual clutch auto in my next car.
 
No, I'm pretty sure they'll be releasing a Cayman GT4 race car soon.
 
GT4 RS anyone?

Also, I'll take a GT4 in this color please:

porsche-cayman-gt4-01-1.jpg
 
This is absolutely my favorite car out at the moment. I love the blue color (much like I do with BMW and the old honda dyno blue pearl).

The shape of this thing is what sports cars are supposed to look like. I really can't imagine it getting much better than this... Just enough "race" to keep it on the edge but just enough "classic" to still be surprisingly subdued compared to many other cars. 👍

I suppose the only thing that could make it cooler imho would be a reduction in the flare of the side inlet behind the door (seems to stick out pretty far) and maybe an integrated spoiler instead of the racing style wing.
Even with those minor complaints I consider this thing miles ahead of almost all the competition as a piece of poster art.
 
GT4 RS? Less weight, bit more power, and price jump similar to 911 GT3 -> GT3 RS? Yeah, it will sell if they make it. And I need to start planning some more armed bank robberies.. :P
 
My favorite part about this car is that it has 5 lugs and not that center locking wheel bullpoop.
 
Some very early internet reports from journos say that the GT4 is as awesome as everyone suspected it would be.

There is a huge amount of whinging from Porsche enthusiasts in the UK at the moment - both the GT3RS and GT4 have small production allocations and many people who put down fairly chunky deposits with LOI a long time ago are not getting cars.

Seems if you haven't bought a number of previous GT models from your OPC, or a 918, you have no chance of getting a RHD GT3RS.
 
I swear I remember the guy in charge of the program saying the GT4 wouldn't be a limited production car...

Edit: So not a limited production car in the sense that they put a number plate on it, but not a lot will be made. Check 16:30 in this video:

 
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I haven't had so much want for a new car in years. Looks like they will be about 85k stateside.....I should have gotten an MBA instead of an MArch....:lol:

In all seriousness, I hope they depreciate in the baby Porsche way, unlike the other GTx cars. If I could get one of these in the mid 40s in a few years....oh man. I have doubts they will ever get that low, though.

Does anyone else feel that the production values on Chris's videos has been going downhill? Lots of improperly exposed shots, the white balance between the cameras is all over the place, the go-pro footage (at least that's what it appears to be) is definitely being encoded/compressed incorrectly (sooo many jaggies) and the whole film just seems to have a inconsistent look. Check out the shot at 11:40 and then the immediately next shot at 11:45. The difference is very striking (white balance is way off, namely) and the footage at 11:45 is pretty poor (underexposed, ugly white balance, and too much contrast) IMO, even as a very, very rank amateur film editor. Just comes off as a hurriedly put together film. I find that strange when your entire career is a video journalist.

This isn't the first video of his lately that I've found lacking in the production values department. For instance, one of the Geneva motor show videos has really gratuitous use of twixtor, varying audio levels throughout (I had to turn the volume up and down a few times; check out the Porsche bit at 3:20 and then the Ferrari bit at 5:40 without changing your volume), and 1 minute of blank footage at the end. How did that happen? Not to mention that PT1 and PT2 have a completely different editing style, with one having narration in post, and the other not. Just strange and inconsistent, and to me, distracting.

 
Eunos_Cosmo
In all seriousness, I hope they depreciate in the baby Porsche way, unlike the other GTx cars. If I could get one of these in the mid 40s in a few years....oh man. I have doubts they will ever get that low, though.
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I suspect the GT4 will never trade below list :(
 
This thing is a whole lot more than a Cayman R, it was just a parts bin special so it's not really comparable.
 
This is far from an adequate sample size, but there is 1 Cayman R on ebay for $53k buy it now with 40,000 miles. For comparison, the as-new base MSRP in 2012 was $67,000. The one on ebay was likely $75k or more due to its options. Nearly $25,000 in 3 years is a pretty big hit. Hopefully (for me anyways) the GT4 will take a similar dive.

Unfortunately, I find the first generation Cayman far too ugly to ever consider.

Edit: I just realized that the Cayman GT4 is almost exactly a Ferrari 360 in terms of spec, configuration, and weight. Only difference is the H6 vs V8. That's pretty awesome, in my opinion.
 
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If the 991 GT3 is anything to go by I wouldn't count on it.
 

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