Porsche is Giving the 919 a Victory Tour (And Looking to Shatter Lap Records)

[SlipZtrEm]

but the significance of it isn't the same IMO.

I sort of agree — it's very significant, but in a different way, not more or less. As a sheer testament to what's possible at the 'Ring, it's huge. It's, as you say, video games made real, in the sense that people have been running crazy-fast cars around there in the safety of the digital realm for years. That someone with the testicular fortitude has just run under 5:20 in the real world is cause for celebration IMO.

Bellof's run will always remain as the peak of what could be done within the confines of racing regulations at the time. This doesn't minimize that, and I think, if he were alive, he'd very much approve of Bernhard's run.

 

[kjeldsen]

I will repeat myself, i think that Porsche should have left Steffans lap record alone. He died racing, he became a myth, now some souped up supercar custom made to beat lap records with a "noname" driver holds the record for the next 35-70 years.

The right way would have seen Porsche build a car to take the record home when it would have been beaten.

With that said, what a lap.. insane.

 

[PzR Slim]

Watching the speed increase when on the boost is unreal! Mega lap and huge cojones. Can't believe how bumpy it was down Tiergarten.

 

[UnkaD]

I will repeat myself, i think that Porsche should have left Steffans lap record alone. He died racing, he became a myth, now some souped up supercar custom made to beat lap records with a "noname" driver holds the record for the next 35-70 years.

The right way would have seen Porsche build a car to take the record home when it would have been beaten.

With that said, what a lap.. insane.

It's not just some "souped up supercar." It's their highest-tier race car with all the stops taken out. The normal WEC 919 probably could have beaten the record as well.

The record still stands on paper, so relax. Also, I wouldn't exactly call Timo Bernhard a "noname" driver.

 

[LancerEvo7]

Also, I wouldn't exactly call Timo Bernhard a "noname" driver.

When you hear of Bellof's record, it's in the context of it being Bellof's, not the Porsche 956's. Here the focus is on the car, not the driver.

 

[Brzlav]

"noname" driver

2 time winner Le Mans 24h.
2 time sportscar world champion.
5 time winner Nürburgring 24h.
ALMS champion.

--> clearly a noname driver.

Speaking about the record's meaning, I think it's perfectly done by Porsche. Stefan Bellof's record will forever be the fastest lap under racing conditions, but one day, some souped up supercar would have beaten the record anyway, casting a shadow on Stefan's lap for people who know little about motorsports. It's pretty much the best solution if Porsche themselves do it.

 

[Famine]

i think that Porsche should have left Steffans lap record alone. He died racing, he became a myth, now some souped up supercar custom made to beat lap records with a "noname" driver holds the record for the next 35-70 years.

Bellof won the 1000km Nurburgring once, in 1984. Timo Bernhard has won the 24Hr Nurburgring five times. So far.

 

[UnkaD]

When you hear of Bellof's record, it's in the context of it being Bellof's, not the Porsche 956's. Here the focus is on the car, not the driver.

Fair enough, but you could find a better way of saying that without crapping on Bernhard's accomplishments.

Still, why not pursue records? Should everyone just stop when they come close to a career record because the record holder is "legendary" or something? Things get better. It's a way of life. Imagine how brutally amazing Bellof's record would be if no one could beat it even with advances in technology.

The lap was amazing, but just look how long ago that was. And it will still be acknowledged for decades to come because it's still the official record. Everytime the 919 Evo will be mentioned it's not a stretch to imagine that Bellof's name will still be mentioned along with it.

 

[Brzlav]

When you hear of Bellof's record, it's in the context of it being Bellof's, not the Porsche 956's. Here the focus is on the car, not the driver.

Which maybe is wrong as the two 956s in their qualifying engine configuration were way ahead of the competition. Jochen Maas in the second Porsche did a 6:16:85, not that far away considering we don't know how much traffic each driver had on his lap and how much slipstream help there was (Stefan got a tow on the Döttinger Höhe by Jacky Ickx).
The other cars were at least half a minute away, so clearly those cars weren't fast enough to keep up with the 956 no matter who's on the wheel.

We don't know what the lap record would be if the race had continued to be held on the Nordschleife over the rest of the Group C era.

 

[Northstar]

This will probably be the only time I'm actually interested in a Nurburgring time. Very impressive!

As for Bellof's time, you could certainly argue the legitimacy of that time being the record as well. They only used that configuration in 1983 so whoever happened to run the fastest lap was going to have a record that was unlikely to fall unless someone went on a publicity tour like Porsche is doing.

 

[twitcher]

Over on Speedhunters, Jordan Butters, who is at the circut today, was claiming that talk in the paddock after the 5:19 lap is that they may have a crack at doing a sub 5:00 at some point. I don’t even know what to say to that

 

[crooky369]

Dare I say it but I actually thought they’d be quicker...

Surely the percentage improvement over the 956 is much lower than the Spa lap?

Also can anyone beat the 5:19 set by the Evo in the WEC 919 on GT Sport?

I ran a 5:30 on my second attempt and I reckon you could shave 10 seconds off if you were really committed. That was with supersoft tyres and the weight reduced as much as possible. Otherwise I believe the setup was stock.

 

[Famine]

Dare I say it but I actually thought they’d be quicker...

Surely the percentage improvement over the 956 is much lower than the Spa lap?

In 1985 Spa had a much tighter Eau Rouge and a double-chicane - well, a Bus Stop chicane - at... Bus Stop. It was a much slower track.

However, in our original 919/Ring article, we calculated that the 919 could set a 4'43, based off the 919-to-911 RSR gap at 2018's Spa. However it's not that simple - it depends whether the 919 makes the most time up on power, on brakes or in bends. Spa has much more of the track at full throttle than the 'Ring, which suggests that the 919's advantage is biggest in a straight line and/or in big stops (which isn't much of a surprise, as it's a hybrid).

 

[HenrySwanson]

Mentally that lap is just hard to comprehend....

 

[Brzlav]

As insane as that onboard footage is, you can also see that Timo is keeping it safe. Which is understandable given the lack of runout zones and high curbing. I certainly think that the car could go even faster, I'm not sure if it's worth the risk though.

 

[-Fred-]

Seeing how much Bernhard was bouncing around in there, I think it's the human part of the equation that'll end up being the limiting factor for faster laptimes.

 

[coryclifford]

At his time of 2:37, where does the extra battery boost come from?

 

[DGXR]

As insane as that onboard footage is, you can also see that Timo is keeping it safe. Which is understandable given the lack of runout zones and high curbing. I certainly think that the car could go even faster, I'm not sure if it's worth the risk though.

Yes definitely an insane pace, difficult for most armchair racers to comprehend... at least for me!
Also I agree with your statement about the driver's intentional margin of safety considering the immediate perils of this track. An earlier post implied that Bathurst/Mt. Panorama is more dangerous than Green Hell with regard to risk of damage to the car. Not necessarily so. But no driver goes full 100% for a full lap without incident -- there is always a buffer, however small. Without it, an incident is nearly guaranteed because of the human factor.

 

[twitcher]

I too think Porsche is pushing into the territory where the pilot is the limiting factor.

I’d actually be interested in seeing this, just for fun


Maybe not the best sim in the entire world, but certainly one of the young up and comers at the ring.

 

[05XR8]

Was in the wrong thread.

What's also different is, is this car still an official 919 Hybrid? It doesn't have the lights etcetera as it's peers in class(modifications:...changes made to the 919 Evo are an enlarged front diffuser and rear wing, the addition of DRS at the front and rear, and considerably more power)- https://www.autosport.com/wec/news/135299/modified-porsche-lmp1-car-beats-spa-f1-record

I know all kinds of cars set official lap records, but this is like an open class record, rather than a WEC record for those type of cars. I'm not bashing Porsche for ripping the chains off to see what it can do. So, will we ever see how fast the WEC version can lap the 'Ring, or is this all the world is going to get?

 

[sumbrownkid]

Personally, I think the record would have been cooler if the car was still in LMP1H regulations form.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Personally, I think the record would have been cooler if the car was still in LMP1H regulations form.

While I agree what does it really matter, the car that set the time prior to this one didn't run under those regs and so forth. So in reality it should be about building a car and conquering the lap. What makes it less meaningful is that this is a glorified time trial. Bellof set his time in a race with others around him making it obviously not a clean and clear lap. This of course probably wouldn't have had stopped the 919 beating his time if it had been a race format, but it wouldn't have smashed it to the degree we see.

 

[LeGeNd-1]

Mighty impressive Porsche I did expect it to beat the record but to get close to 5 minutes is just unbelievable. We are literally within touching distance of a sub 5 minutes lap. And people say the Red Bull X1/Tomahawk is unrealistic - how do you know in another 20 years cars won't be even quicker?

Seeing his head shake around so much in the final straight is scary though Literally looks like his neck is about to snap.

Dare I say it but I actually thought they’d be quicker...

Surely the percentage improvement over the 956 is much lower than the Spa lap?

Also can anyone beat the 5:19 set by the Evo in the WEC 919 on GT Sport?

I ran a 5:30 on my second attempt and I reckon you could shave 10 seconds off if you were really committed. That was with supersoft tyres and the weight reduced as much as possible. Otherwise I believe the setup was stock.

GTS is a sim but it's dumbed down a bit. You could attack the kerbs much more aggressively than real life, and you can't die either. Plus supersoft tyres provide grip that is impossible with modern slicks. In Assetto Corsa with a mod 919 Evo (performance not entirely accurate), someone got a 5.05 laptime.

I don't doubt it can quicker if everything is 100% perfect, but on a track like Nurburgring achieving perfect lap is significantly harder than Spa for a multitude of reasons. Honestly, I'm surprised they are even in the low 5 minutes.

At his time of 2:37, where does the extra battery boost come from?

I'm thinking the boost bar is the amount deployed rather than the battery reserve. It's charging and discharging far too quickly otherwise.

 

[Greycap]

At his time of 2:37, where does the extra battery boost come from?

The 919 doesn't rely solely on braking to charge the battery like the other hybrids, it also has an exhaust driven generator. It's making electricity all the time.

 

[20832]

Was in the wrong thread.

It still is a 919 Hybrid, but with no regulations. There's no racing class, where this car could compete. So yes, it's purely a race car with the 919 Hybrid as a basis, to break lap records. But more importantly to show, what such a car could and can be capable of.

Maybe they'll one day attempt to use a WEC car, that's up to regulations, but given how much even the 919 EVO had to be modified (different undertray and higher ride height -> decreasing downforce) in order to complete the lap there, I doubt that.

But then again, it isn't classified as a WEC record. It's just classified as it is: A lap record. Not for a specific car class or racing class or engine class, just in general.

 

[GranTurismo guy]

I really am quite confused at all the criticism. What exactly is wrong with building a car to go as fast as it possibly can and then putting it to practise? Isn’t that what records are about?

And in what way does it ruin a record that was set in very different circumstances, something that everyone is more than aware of?

 

[Northstar]

I really am quite confused at all the criticism. What exactly is wrong with building a car to go as fast as it possibly can and then putting it to practise? Isn’t that what records are about?

And in what way does it ruin a record that was set in very different circumstances, something that everyone is more than aware of?

I've noticed some people on the internet seem to put anyone that dies racing on a pedestal and for anyone to approach their accomplishments is a major sin. Granted they're comment section opinions (can't remember the exact site)), but I remember some people being very mad at Hamilton for passing Senna's pole count last year.

 

[ProjectWHaT]

 

[XJ40]

I was of the opinion that Porche should have left Bellofs' record to stand. But after having read some thoughtfully written posts here, I'm actually glad that the record remains with the manufacturer, with which Bellof set that amazing time in the first place.

 

[Vic Reign93]

I believe that was an unintentional benefit, that win or lose Porsche would still have the fastest time at the Ring.(technically they’ve created a new record class as Bellof set his time at a sanctioned race event.)

Even in the worse case scenario that they wrecked the 919 and injured the driver, they would still have the overall record and the production car record with the 911 GT2 RS.

Happily, they made a point with the 919 Evo, “The Nürburgring is ours and if you want any of our records, be prepared to put the work in.”

So currently Porsche still has the production car record of 6:47, qualifying record of 6:11 and now the ultimate overall time of 5:19, not bad going from Stuttgart’s finest. 👍