Porsche Supercup Driver Sean Edwards Dies

[Ridox2JZGTE]

Please don't speculate until the facts are known, the 20 year old's name is Will Holzheimer, he runs this Porsche regularly at the track, the car, along with an identical one I believe, is owned by his family. While it may have been driver error, I don't think it would have been blatant incompetence and I don't think it's fair that there are speculations happening without facts. Regardless, the guy is in hospital with serious injuries and he is going to be going through emotional hell knowing that his passenger has died. The investigation is in progress and we will know the cause soon enough.

I can only speculate when not all facts are known, so yeah, thanks for pointing about the driver background, that means my speculation was wrong. If the driver is a regular at the track, then what was Sean doing sitting in the passenger seat ? I made an early guess of Sean coaching drivers, but apparently not. Sorry if I sound inconsiderate.

 

[Snaeper]

I can only speculate when not all facts are known, so yeah, thanks for pointing about the driver background, that means my speculation was wrong. If the driver is a regular at the track, then what was Sean doing sitting in the passenger seat ? I made an early guess of Sean coaching drivers, but apparently not. Sorry if I sound inconsiderate.

When you want to become a better driver in a GT3 Cup car, why wouldn't you accept tutelage from the current Supercup Championship leader? He's only 20, he's still learning.


On a gruesome side note, today is the 2-year anniversary of Dan Wheldon's death.

 

[Punknoodle]

There is always room for advanced driver training from a racing professional, for anyone who wants to find that extra edge.

You didn't upset me mate, I was just suggesting that assumptions shouldn't be made without facts.


I have a number of Motorsport pages on my Facebook news feed and unfortunately there are a lot of assumptions made about a 20 year old crashing in a Porsche whilst under instruction.

 

[Imari]

If the driver is a regular at the track, then what was Sean doing sitting in the passenger seat ? I made an early guess of Sean coaching drivers, but apparently not. Sorry if I sound inconsiderate.

You can be a regular driver and still have plenty to learn from a professional. You could be a professional driver and still have plenty to learn from those who are better at the craft than you are.

 

[lGNAl]

^ #75 Prospeed Competition Porsche 911 RSR: Abdulaziz Al Faisal, Bret Curtis, Sean Edwards R.I.P

 

[Ridox2JZGTE]

There is always room for advanced driver training from a racing professional, for anyone who wants to find that extra edge.

You didn't upset me mate, I was just suggesting that assumptions shouldn't be made without facts.


I have a number of Motorsport pages on my Facebook news feed and unfortunately there are a lot of assumptions made about a 20 year old crashing in a Porsche whilst under instruction.

When you want to become a better driver in a GT3 Cup car, why wouldn't you accept tutelage from the current Supercup Championship leader? He's only 20, he's still learning.


On a gruesome side note, today is the 2-year anniversary of Dan Wheldon's death.

You can be a regular driver and still have plenty to learn from a professional. You could be a professional driver and still have plenty to learn from those who are better at the craft than you are.

Thanks guys, I was having impression from the news article that said about the car owned by a company that gives joyride, so I thought they were having a good time at the track, Sean is a famous race car driver, so I was thinking about the company looking for promoting their services with Sean as the passenger. I also read that Sean wanted to coach other drivers, so that's where I thought about Sean giving the driver some input, advices and tips at the track while they are at it.

Learning that the driver is still very young of age at 20 years old but a regular at the track, then I presumed that they were doing promo run or just having fun together, maybe they were friends.

I'm going to wait for further news about what was the occasion of both young drivers at the track.

 

[gogetbusy]

I can't believe it... what a talented driver... RIP.

 

[MrWednesday]

I doubt hitting the wall at 60mph would reduce the car to the amount that was left that we saw.

I think maybe I wasn't clear enough about what I meant. If they took that turn normally, without incident, I think they would have been braking down to 60 mph +/-. I'm in complete agreement that the damage suffered is not consistent with departure from the track at 60 mph, so my hypothesis is that they were going faster than that. The most obvious reason for that would be brake failure.

They need larger sand traps and more tires.

Yup. And maybe angle the sand trap so that it's uphill from the track surface, the better to encourage a car to dig in and also take advantage of the hill to slow the car down further?

 

[Ninners]

Sean had been coaching drivers before I believe, he used to take people round for demonstration laps too, anyhow such a sad loss.

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

His mother thinks the throttle got stuck:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/m...-on-final-corner-during-a-lesson-8883419.html

If this is the case I guess that it was too late too slow the car down using the clutch when the driver noticed.

 

[Hernan04]

In honor of Sean, NGT Motorsport's team has decided withdraw the ALMS final race at Petit Le Mans.

 

[MrWednesday]

His mother thinks the throttle got stuck:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/m...-on-final-corner-during-a-lesson-8883419.html

If this is the case I guess that it was too late too slow the car down using the clutch when the driver noticed.

She's basing that on seeing brake lights, which AFAIK only means that the brake pedal was depressed, not that it actually did anything. As far as I know, none of the most likely brake failures (broken line, boiled fluid) would have prevented the indicator lights from working.

Quote from the article, "She said witnesses had seen brake lights, indicating they were working and not the problem..."

 

[Wardez]

What do you guys think about this:
http://www.change.org/petitions/por...of-the-2013-supercup-season-a-non-points-race

I find this to be ridiculous.

He wouldn't want this to happen, it's just ridiculous, goes against everything he stood for.

You know what this is akin to?

Be forewarned, as what I'm about to say could seem insensitive, but I don't mean it to be at all. But it would be like if the guys were saying, " Man, his wife's gonna be lonely, let's arrange someone to be with her."

No! Just let the racing go on and do the final race with his image everywhere, THAT's how you remember a racing driver.

 

[Jimlaad43]

Its a nice gesture, but not right. I can understand what they are trying to say.
I must admit, if I was one of the drivers still in the championship, I would ask to not take points but that is up to them.

 

[Mac K]

I think it's out of respect, I personally think it's a good gesture and it shows just how tight knit the "family" within racing is.

 

[Jimlaad43]

As I said, it is for the drivers who could overtake him to decide, not for fans with their hearts in the right place. However, just think, if it were Thiim or Ammermuller, would something similar have happened?

 

[GOTMAXPOWER]

What do you guys think about this:
http://www.change.org/petitions/por...of-the-2013-supercup-season-a-non-points-race

I think the races should be run as per usual, and if a decision is made it should be made by the series organisers and not fans who are quite rightfully very emotional at the moment.

It's like the 1976 Formula One championship, Niki Lauda was by far the class of the field but lost the championship by missing races when seriously injured. I guess it's what happens in motorsport.

 

[Snaeper]

Yeah, but would if I were Thiim, would I consider it a win? Would I have rightfully won the championship? Did I deserve it?

As pointed out, Edwards never finished below 5th all season long, if he were there, the Championship would be his. But he died off track with only two races to go.

He's proven that he's the Champion and deserves the accolade more than any of the other drivers. I would never consider myself Champion if I won because they guy ahead of me died before the last round. What a shameful way to win.

And you cannot compare this to Niki Lauda. He was racing in a Formula 1 race, with his hands on the wheel. Edwards was a passenger in a racecar doing hot laps in Australia.

 

[Ardius]

What a shameful way to win.

Why is it shameful? They didn't exactly murder him to win did they? I hate that people react this way, because it means that they vilify anyone that doesn't do exactly as they feel everyone should.
I don't think people should be expected to react a certain way just to respect someone else in death. Everyone should be able to express their respect in their own way and everyone should be allowed to move on as well. If the drivers wish to race or not race in respect to him, then that is their choice and they shouldn't be judged for it.

Its no different to the Le Mans 24 Hours continuing this year - should we be judging those drivers too for continuing to race?

While we should always respect the dead and we can never celebrate a day when someone passes away in happiness, we can't let death bring life to a stand still - its not what those who passed away would have wanted and really we should be able to choose how we honour the dead, not forced.

This is something that should be left up to the drivers, teams and organisers themselves to decide how they wish to honour Sean. It shouldn't be "expected" or demanded that it be done in a particular way.

 

[F1 fan]

What a shameful way to win.

How so? It's not the first time this has happened. Phil Hill won the championship when his teammate (and title rival) Wolfgang Von Trips was involved in a fatal crash. Granted, Hill won the championship in the same race, so probably didn't have a chance to consider the repercussions.

Jackie Ickx almost won the title after Jochen Rindt died. I'm sure any championship win when a rival driver has died will be bittersweet, but these guys are risking their lives every time they step into a car. That's not going to change any time soon. I doubt Sean would want to be gifted the title posthumously in such a way. It isn't over until it's over. Let the final race happen and have a nice memorial for Sean.

 

[Snaeper]

Rindt and Von Trips both died racing cars in the series that they were in contention to win for. They were also racing in Formula 1, and at that caliber of racing, it would be unacceptable to not award points to the other competitors

And Simonsen and Le Mans is a terrible comparison as he was nowhere near in contention to win, and was, again, racing in the series which he was collecting points for.

This is Porsche Supercup, sure it's the biggest GT3 Cup series in the world, but it's not like there's millions of sponsorship dollars riding on the balance of who wins. If it were half way through the season or if it was a tight points race, then it would be another matter entirely. But the most international attention this series ever received most likely came as a result of this event, so it's also unfair to compare F1 and Le Mans to this.

Again, the point is that he's already won the Championship, all he had to do going into these final two races was show up and do an average finish and he'd have it. Instead, he decided to be an all around good guy and go to another part of the world to teach a young driver how to race and it cost him his life.

I want him to have this Legacy. I don't care about honoring him in life if he's forgotten in a year. If he's allowed to win this Championship like he rightfully deserves, he'll be remembered a lot longer. And considering the kind of person he was, he deserves to be remembered. It's ironic that you would have Rindt's picture as your avatar F1 fan, him being the only post-humous awarded racing champion of note. Would you have cared as much about him if he had finished runner-up to Jacky Ickx?

 

[Zuel]

The cars must be built safer in some way. This is why I'm studying to further my engineering degree.

 

[Snaeper]

The cars must be built safer in some way. This is why I'm studying to further my engineering degree.

Zuel, the car they were in was already plenty safe. When you go 100+ miles an hour straight into a wall, there's not much you can engineer to save someone without making the cars prohibitively expensive.

Besides, this was a massive failure in track design more-so than the car's safety.

Looking at the track, I'm reasonably sure which part they were on, and it's not very pretty. If I'm correct, based on the images in the news reports, and the damage to the car, they were travelling down the second to last straight into the final turn before the front stretch. This straight (according to Google Earth) is about a quarter mile long, ending in a sand trap and a concrete wall protected by only two rows of tires. I reckon the car was probably moving at about 120 miles an hour if the brakes had been applied. If the brakes failed I'd guess it was more like 130-140, this assuming the driver was operating at normal racing speeds.

Obviously the tires failed to do their job, though I'm guessing there's not alot such a small amount of rubber can do in a situation like that.

The track (and others employing similar layouts) should re-evaluate this portion, possibly adding a chicane to scrub off speed and avoid a car experiencing a mechanical failure or driver error that results in another life lost or critically injured.

 

[F1 fan]

Rindt and Von Trips both died racing cars in the series that they were in contention to win for. They were also racing in Formula 1, and at that caliber of racing, it would be unacceptable to not award points to the other competitors

So what about the "best results out of x races" rule they had back then? Some people lost/gained championship position because certain results weren't counted. And if anything, the fact that Sean wasn't killed while competing in the supercup means there's less reason to actually fix the outcome.

This is Porsche Supercup, sure it's the biggest GT3 Cup series in the world, but it's not like there's millions of sponsorship dollars riding on the balance of who wins. If it were half way through the season or if it was a tight points race, then it would be another matter entirely.

There weren't "millions of dollars riding in the balance" back when Von Trips was racing. That probably wasn't the case when Rindt was racing either. A few million perhaps, but nowhere near the level it is today. And what about the other Supercup drivers, teams and sponsors? Like you said, it's not the pinnacle of Motorsport, but many people have worked very hard to be there.

Again, the point is that he's already won the Championship,

No he hasn't.

all he had to do going into these final two races was show up and do an average finish and he'd have it.

So he hasn't won it.

Instead, he decided to be an all around good guy and go to another part of the world to teach a young driver how to race and it cost him his life.

Eh? It would have been a paid job. Many racing drivers and former racing drivers do paid coaching.

I want him to have this Legacy. I don't care about honoring him in life if he's forgotten in a year. If he's allowed to win this Championship like he rightfully deserves, he'll be remembered a lot longer. And considering the kind of person he was, he deserves to be remembered.

Imagine he survived the accident but was stuck in a hospital bed for the rest of the season. Do you honestly think Sean would have wanted the championship to be gifted to him? No. He was a racing driver and he fully understood the risks. While I agree that what happened is tragic, I think you're having an overly sensitive reaction.

It's ironic that you would have Rindt's picture as your avatar F1 fan, him being the only post-humous awarded racing champion of note. Would you have cared as much about him if he had finished runner-up to Jacky Ickx?

It's not ironic at all. I have always been a fan of Rindt due to his balls out driving style. He was a really cool guy, but I don't think Ickx should have done things differently. Jochen's story is particularly tragic given his well voiced concerns about the safety of the Lotus and the fact that he promised his wife he'd retire if he won the world championship. Still, he was a racing driver and knew the risks.

 

[Punknoodle]

Would just like to post this here - young Will is still unconscious and undergoing surgery. Here's hoping he pulls through this ok.

http://www.speedcafe.com/2013/10/22/holzheimer-still-critical-undergoing-surgery/

 

[Snaeper]

And if anything, the fact that Sean wasn't killed while competing in the supercup means there's less reason to actually fix the outcome.

I can agree with this point.

There weren't "millions of dollars riding in the balance" back when Von Trips was racing. That probably wasn't the case when Rindt was racing either. A few million perhaps, but nowhere near the level it is today. And what about the other Supercup drivers, teams and sponsors? Like you said, it's not the pinnacle of Motorsport, but many people have worked very hard to be there.

F1 and Grand Prix racing was still the pinnacle of motorsport of it's time. If there was a one-make racing series back then like Supercup, it would've been as forgotten then as it was forgotten today.

No he hasn't.

Not literally, no, of course not. Try to understand the point in why I said it.

Eh? It would have been a paid job. Many racing drivers and former racing drivers do paid coaching.

I wonder how many of them are in contention to win championships when they do it.

Imagine he survived the accident but was stuck in a hospital bed for the rest of the season. Do you honestly think Sean would have wanted the championship to be gifted to him? No. He was a racing driver and he fully understood the risks. While I agree that what happened is tragic, I think you're having an overly sensitive reaction.

Completely different scenario. He'd have a chance to come back and race again. If he was unable to recover to that point, then we could at least all know how he felt about the situation.

I'm having a different reaction than you are. Maybe it's sensitive, but it's not off-base in my opinion, as a number of others feel the same way. I understand every point you're making, racing is dangerous and drivers know the risks. He forfeited his chance to win when he added additional risk to his life and it cost him. But here he is winning, never to have a chance at winning another championship. If Thiim wins it, will we remember in a few years? Would anyone care? I've never had a reason to care about Supercup and Thiim would likely become no less notable of a Champion than any of the other Supercup Champions I can't name. So let it go to someone who could be remembered for winning the title, who deserves to win the title.

Hell, the only reason we're even talking about Edwards is because he died. I wouldn't have known or cared if he went on to win the championship, just like I didn't know or care when he won the inagural FIA GT3 Championship, or the German GT3 Cup Championship. I didn't know or care when he raced in Le Mans, and when he won the Nurburgring 24 Hours and Dubai 24 Hours, the only person I cared about was Bernd Schenider. Heck, I just realized Edwards was teamed with Thiim at the Nurb.

Letting him win this championship would allow someone like me to learn about who he was in 10 years, because it would be notable enough to remember. It would allow someone like you to have him as their avatar in 40 years.

It's not ironic at all. I have always been a fan of Rindt due to his balls out driving style. He was a really cool guy, but I don't think Ickx should have done things differently. Jochen's story is particularly tragic given his well voiced concerns about the safety of the Lotus and the fact that he promised his wife he'd retire if he won the world championship. Still, he was a racing driver and knew the risks.

And would you know or care about any of that if he didn't win? That's my point. Would his promise to his wife be as tragically ironic if he never won the championship? Would anyone even know about that promise if he got second? Maybe they would, but would they remember? F1 Drivers died by the handful back then after all, lots of talented guys just like Rindt.

No, I think he would fall to the levels of recognition that a number of other popular F1 (and other top-level racing series) drivers usually get to when they pass away in competition of their sport, maybe a little above. As an example, I've never heard of Von Trips before you mentioned him just now. I have heard of Jim Clark*, Peter Revson and Tom Pryce, but neither of them were going to win the championship when they died.

*-Died in a Formula Two Accident

 

[F1 fan]

If the championship were to be gifted to Sean, it would be bad for the integrity of the series. Why would sponsors continue pumping money into the series when it could be decided away from the track? If it were to be decided in that manner, it would also be hollow for the Edwards family. Given his father's career, I doubt he would want a trophy his son didn't rightly win. If the championship is decided in Sean's favour on the track, it will be much more meaningful.

Yes, motor racing is tragic. Fixing the outcome of a championship would be a poor outcome. Sean had already achieved a lot in the sport. I'm sure he will continue to be remembered as a result. I also think it would be bad for the public perception of Motorsport. Despite my dislike of Lewis Hamilton, I argued with the tin foil hat wearing "Interlagos 2008 was a fix" crowd.

On the subject of Jochen Rindt, I would know who he was if he lived or not. I'm deeply interested in formula one history and I could tell you about the people and teams who didn't even come close to winning anything, let alone champions and championship contenders.

 

[Snaeper]

If the championship were to be gifted to Sean, it would be bad for the integrity of the series. Why would sponsors continue pumping money into the series when it could be decided away from the track?

I doubt the sponsors would argue with it when his death gave them a lot of publicity, and could earn even more publicity by granting him the championship.

If it were to be decided in that manner, it would also be hollow for the Edwards family. Given his father's career, I doubt he would want a trophy his son didn't rightly win. If the championship is decided in Sean's favour on the track, it will be much more meaningful.

And the championship still would be decided on track if the last two rounds were held as exhibition races.

Yes, motor racing is tragic. Fixing the outcome of a championship would be a poor outcome. Sean had already achieved a lot in the sport. I'm sure he will continue to be remembered as a result. I also think it would be bad for the public perception of Motorsport. Despite my dislike of Lewis Hamilton, I argued with the tin foil hat wearing "Interlagos 2008 was a fix" crowd.

I hope you're not comparing the two as being similar situations. And I hardly think this would hurt public perception of motorsport. I believe it would do the exact opposite. The only thing it would hurt is enthusiasts perception of motorsport, and even that wouldn't be all inclusive. There have been other instances where motorsport has cancelled races to ensure championships for far less glamorous reasons than to let a deceased driver get the title, like the 1964 International GT Race being cancelled in Monza to allow Ferrari to win over Shelby.

On the subject of Jochen Rindt, I would know who he was if he lived or not. I'm deeply interested in formula one history and I could tell you about the people and teams who didn't even come close to winning anything, let alone champions and championship contenders.

I wasn't arguing if you would know who he was whether or not he lived. I was arguing about whether or not you'd care about him enough to make him your avatar if he finished Second instead of First.

 

[Zuel]

That's a long straight. Did something stick open?

 

[Wardez]

Yeah, the throttle was stuck