Porsche will not be in GT5

[arvin charles]

It's getting rather funny now that the only excuse for Porsche against Ruf in a game is Porsche's racing history...

Again.

356 Abarth
550 Spyder
904 Carrera GTS
911 R/ST/TR/RS
914/6
924 Carrera GT
928 GTS
959
968 Turbo S
Carrera GT

Those are all road cars.

 

[Fruitcake]

It's getting rather funny now that the only excuse for Porsche against Ruf in a game is Porsche's racing history when yet, nearly no games besides Unleashed actually dig into it and stick more to anything post-1990.

That's why we need PD to do it

(And FM3 has the 962C)

 

[arvin charles]

^ FM3 also has the 906

FM2 had the 2.7 RS & the 550 Spyder. Those are all pre-'75.

 

[C-ZETA]

Simple, RUF has 0 racing history. If you bring up Le Mans Porsche is bound to come up since they have such a history there.

I still reckon that even if Le Mans Porsches were included there'd certainly be a limited amount.

 

[McLaren]

Again.

356 Abarth
550 Spyder
904 Carrera GTS
911 R/ST/TR/RS
914/6
924 Carrera GT
928 GTS
959
968 Turbo S
Carrera GT

Those are all road cars.

Many of which have also been race cars. Not to add that said race cars amongst others have also been the main body of your opinion of Porsche vs. Ruf.


We get it. You want Porsche because of its history , but you & others still act as if Ruf is nothing special. I'll be sure to ask the guys down at RAC for their thoughts, though they'll probably say, "Sorry". Ruf can't give you those cars because Ruf hasn't been around anywhere near as long. They can't give you full fledged race cars either because that's not their business nor do they profit anywhere near enough to give people race cars from the factory. They attempted to with the CTR2 & the results weren't high; though they are more than capable of turning a customer car into one.

Ruf may not have the near 80 years of Porsche history, but they've done more than their fair share of accomplishments. The Yellowbird was once the fastest road-built "911" ever, & is still seen as one of the most iconic Nurburgring cars thanks to Stefan. And the CTR3 has done more than its share of supercar territory.

 

[C-ZETA]

Again.

356 Abarth
550 Spyder
904 Carrera GTS
911 R/ST/TR/RS
914/6
924 Carrera GT
928 GTS
959
968 Turbo S
Carrera GT

Those are all road cars.

Many of which have also been race cars. Not to add that said race cars amongst others have also been the main body of your opinion of Porsche vs. Ruf.


We get it. You want Porsche because of its history , but you & others still act as if Ruf is nothing special. I'll be sure to ask the guys down at RAC for their thoughts, though they'll probably say, "Sorry". Ruf can't give you those cars because Ruf hasn't been around anywhere near as long. They can't give you full fledged race cars either because that's not their business nor do they profit anywhere near enough to give people race cars from the factory. They attempted to with the CTR2 & the results weren't high; though they are more than capable of turning a customer car into one.

Ruf may not have the near 80 years of Porsche history, but they've done more than their fair share of accomplishments. The Yellowbird was once the fastest road-built "911" ever, & is still seen as one of the most iconic Nurburgring cars thanks to Stefan. And the CTR3 has done more than its share of supercar territory.

McLaren wins this one here. RUF have done...well, just see the second post.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

I'm rootin' for you, Porsche!

 

[arvin charles]

We get it. You want Porsche because of its history , but you & others still act as if Ruf is nothing special.

Whoa! I never said anything to the effect that Ruf was nothing special. Go find an exact quote and prove me wrong. You can even go on the Ruf thread & check my comments there. I'm a fan of Herr Ruf's work, hell I'm blown away by his restored 901 (his attention to detail & respect for Porsche's heritage is astounding).

All I'm saying is that Ruf (and all the other tuners) don't have anything to offer in terms of classic & racing Porsches.

This is NOT a knock on Ruf, but the point we're making is that GT will never be complete without Porsche & motorsport history that comes along with that.

BTW, I know a couple of Ruf owners and I am willing to admit that those cars have unbelievable performance, but it's a completely different experience from my own Porsche. Which is just as fun in its own right.

PPS - I love all things Porsche & Ruf. So don't take this as a me arguing Ruf vs. Porsche. I just want more of that represented. I'm sure I'm not the only who feels that way.

 

[kayman]

whoa! I never said anything to the effect that ruf was nothing special. Go find an exact quote and prove me wrong. You can even go on the ruf thread & check my comments there. I'm a fan of herr ruf's work, hell i'm blown away by his restored 901 (his attention to detail & respect for porsche's heritage is astounding).

All i'm saying is that ruf (and all the other tuners) don't have anything to offer in terms of classic & racing porsches.

This is not a knock on ruf, but the point we're making is that gt will never be complete without porsche & motorsport history that comes along with that.

Btw, i know a couple of ruf owners and i am willing to admit that those cars have unbelievable performance, but it's a completely different experience from my own porsche. Which is just as fun in its own right.

Pps - i love all things porsche & ruf. So don't take this as a me arguing ruf vs. Porsche. I just want more of that represented. I'm sure i'm not the only who feels that way.

ie

ruf and porsh

 

[SrRd RacinG]

RUF and Porsche would be awesome.

CTR3 vs Carrera GT.
RT12 VS 911 GT2.

 

[McLaren]

All I'm saying is that Ruf (and all the other tuners) don't have anything to offer in terms of classic & racing Porsches.

Because they weren't around then. Ruf buys all their chassis' from Porsche. I'm pretty sure if Ruf had been around during the 50's & 60's, they would have build their own classics, but they weren't. And they sure as hell won't convince Porsche to re-create them either; Porsche doesn't have time for that.

So, why even bother bringing it up?

This is NOT a knock on Ruf, but the point we're making is that GT will never be complete without Porsche & motorsport history that comes along with that.

No one has said otherwise, but when asking for Ruf & Porsche, you and others continue to only have 1 argument against Ruf & that's its lack of racing history. You can't fault them for it. Racing history doesn't even have to be there for a car to be great anyways.

Lamborghini has pretty much zilch in racing history & yet, they are the whole start behind the mid-engine supercar and one of the most-desired manufacturers around. Give Ruf some time & they'll probably be the same way.

 

[Stotty]

With the exception of the Yellowbird, I struggle to get excited about RUF as a manufacturer.

Sure, they build some massively powerful cars, but I think they suffer from the same problems as all the Porsche 'tuners' (Gemballa/Avalanche/Techart etc)... the base product is now so good it's very hard to improve anything but the straight line performance.

From a performance perspective, the formula for the tuners is pretty standard... 1) increase the power, 2) 1" bigger (and wider) wheels and tyres, 3) lower and stiffen suspension.

Problem is that modern Porsche's already have big wheels (19's on the GT3/RS, 20's optional on the Turbo), and the suspension (particularly on the GT3/RS/GT2) is already about as hard as you'd ever want it... so bigger wheels/tyres and lower/stiffer supension actually makes the car a less effective all round proposition than the base car.

 

[Pierced Lead]

Well you also have the cool new bumpers and bodykits along with the sporty paint job.

 

[arvin charles]

Because they weren't around then. Ruf buys all their chassis' from Porsche. I'm pretty sure if Ruf had been around during the 50's & 60's, they would have build their own classics, but they weren't. And they sure as hell won't convince Porsche to re-create them either; Porsche doesn't have time for that.

So, why even bother bringing it up?

No one has said otherwise, but when asking for Ruf & Porsche, you and others continue to only have 1 argument against Ruf & that's its lack of racing history. You can't fault them for it. Racing history doesn't even have to be there for a car to be great anyways.

Lamborghini has pretty much zilch in racing history & yet, they are the whole start behind the mid-engine supercar and one of the most-desired manufacturers around. Give Ruf some time & they'll probably be the same way.

I'm not faulting Ruf for the lack of racing history. I'm asking PD to include Porsche so we can get those classics that only Porsche was around to build.

I know they weren't around back then, that's the point. I'm bringing it up because the point is Ruf is not the same as Porsche. With Porsche, not only do we get racing history but there's a LOT of classic cars.

Lamborghinis are absolutely unique in every single way. There's no other car maker with a similar silhouette that can be seen as a substitute by the general public and be deemed "good enough."


Here's Porsche No. 1. It's never raced that I'm aware of and I want this in GT.

Here's a 356 Abarth

356 Speedster

Here's a 914-6

928 GTS

I'd love for any of these to be in GT. It's older classics like these are just an example of Porsche's rich heritage. I'm not just asking for prototypes & race cars. Hell, I'd love to get any 914 in the game.

Stop bringing up Ruf. We're not asking for Ruf to be dropped. We're not knocking Ruf. We're not saying that Ruf is not desirable because of lack of motorsport history. This is not a Ruf v. Porsche argument.

And in case, you didn't get my other argument FOR Porsche (aside from the race cars), it's that no one built anything like those cars pictured above.

We want Porsche because we get lots of race cars AND a lot of classic German cars.

 

[Stotty]

Well you also have the cool new bumpers and bodykits along with the sporty paint job.

I that's a matter of personal opinion... personally, I think the body kits and paint jobs are crass and tasteless.

 

[McLaren]

I
I know they weren't around back then, that's the point. I'm bringing it up because the point is Ruf is not the same as Porsche. With Porsche, not only do we get racing history but there's a LOT of classic cars.

Except when you do, you indirectly fault Ruf for not offering anything like the classics; it's generally your choice of words.

Stop bringing up Ruf. We're not asking for Ruf to be dropped. We're not knocking Ruf. We're not saying that Ruf is not desirable because of lack of motorsport history. This is not a Ruf v. Porsche argument.

I don't bring up Ruf, you do when you critique those who ask for it as a substitute for Porsche, only being able to argue against them that Ruf doesn't have classic Porsches.

From a performance perspective, the formula for the tuners is pretty standard... 1) increase the power, 2) 1" bigger (and wider) wheels and tyres, 3) lower and stiffen suspension.

That is not Ruf's formula, though.

Problem is that modern Porsche's already have big wheels (19's on the GT3/RS, 20's optional on the Turbo), and the suspension (particularly on the GT3/RS/GT2) is already about as hard as you'd ever want it... so bigger wheels/tyres and lower/stiffer supension actually makes the car a less effective all round proposition than the base car.

That's why Ruf rebuilds cars & engines to adapt to their new installations. Ruf doesn't do anything like a tuner, they go beyond that to make sure what they're creating is more than just a modified Turbo with more power & new suspension.

And Gemballa is the exact same. The building process for the Mirage GT is quite amazing.

 

[sumbrownkid]

The problem with Porsche in games is that they don't really go far into the history of both its production and racing cars. If PD had Porsche, I'm sure it will only go back from the late 80s to the modern cars, including the race cars.

 

[Grand Prix]

The problem with Porsche in games is that they don't really go far into the history of both its production and racing cars. If PD had Porsche, I'm sure it will only go back from the late 80s to the modern cars, including the race cars.

Dude, Yamauchi has put cars like the Auto Union, Chaparrals, older Alfas and the Mercedes 300SL in GT4. Of course he would include Porsche's historic machines in the game. He's a car fanatic, just like us. Every time I play GT4 I'm staggered at the selection of classic cars in the game. With Bugatti, Ferrari and Lamborghini in the game, the classic car experience is gonna be even better!

Just imagine driving a Ferrari 330 P4 at Spa or La Sarthe, or a Countach on Citta Di Aria, with the V12 roar reverberating off the walls. GT5 is gonna be epic. I just hope we'll be able to virtually experience cars like the 917 as well. I think the only game that had the 917 was NFS Porsche Unleashed, but I wasn't happy with it. The physics were crap and it didn't even sound similar to a 917. I wanna see what PD could do!

 

[arvin charles]

Except when you do, you indirectly fault Ruf for not offering anything like the classics; it's generally your choice of words.


I don't bring up Ruf, you do when you critique those who ask for it as a substitute for Porsche, only being able to argue against them that Ruf doesn't have classic Porsches.

Do you just read what you want to read? The only reason we cite those reasons is because of people like you who ask "why can't we just stick with Ruf?"

You do realize that Porsche & Ruf both deserve to be in GT, right? I'm not arguing against Ruf. I'm arguing FOR Porsche to be in the game along with Ruf. There's a difference.

Anyway, you can have the last word if you want. I made my point. You made yours. So the next time someone asks for Porsches, think that it's because we do want Porsches, not because we don't want Ruf.

The problem with Porsche in games is that they don't really go far into the history of both its production and racing cars. If PD had Porsche, I'm sure it will only go back from the late 80s to the modern cars, including the race cars.

What makes you think that? Because PD doesn't include cars before 1979?

Maybe they will or maybe not. The point is that if PD does get Porsche, at least there's a chance for those cars to make it in the game even if it's via DLC. Without that, there's not even a chance in hell.

Personally, I'd like to find out what PD would put if it had the license.

 

[RACECAR]

One is definately interested in hearing how PD does with the sound of the Flat-6 in predominately most of the Porsche models and the V8 (or so I believe) In the RS Spyder should they actually be in. So far, I've yet to see any sound mod on the PC sims accurately capture its sound both in idle and at full song.


Off-Topic: Some interesting news I came across today: Porsche's only two four door models, the Cayenne and the Panamera, could potentially be killed off as according to the board of VAG "There is no reason for the two in-house brands to be competing with each other for market share" along with the fact that the company already has SUVs and Four door cars under its Audi & VW brands.

 

[sumbrownkid]

^I personally think Porsche sold itself out when they made that Cayenne and now the Panamera. It didn't have the aura of a sports car that made a Porsche.

 

[vannardini]

RUFs may even outperform Porsches, but it won't be anywhere near the fun of beating a Ferrari at Nurburgring with a 911 Turbo if I'm driving a CTR.

They may feel similar, but I want a Porsche badge and Porsche performance.
Having RUF shouldn't exclude the possibility of having Porsche. There's no substitute to Porsche.

 

[McLaren]

Do you just read what you want to read? The only reason we cite those reasons is because of people like you who ask "why can't we just stick with Ruf?"

I've never said that. If you took the time to read, you'd see I'm all for any & all manufacturers in GT. It's folks like you though who again, critique those asking for more Rufs and such since Porsche will not be in the game.

Nobody has asked Ruf to replace Porsche. At most, people have just said, they'll take Ruf since it's the next best thing. But folks like you just reply that Ruf is nothing like Porsche & will never be a substitute. No has said it would be.

You do realize that Porsche & Ruf both deserve to be in GT, right? I'm not arguing against Ruf. I'm arguing FOR Porsche to be in the game along with Ruf. There's a difference.

You've argued about Porsche having an unmatched history & how Ruf doesn't compare near a billion times already. We understood your point probably the 1st-20th time around.

The fact is though, Porsche is not going to be in, & everyone is just hoping for more Rufs to make up for having no Porsches, as again, they are the next best thing; they're not being asked to be Porsche replacements.

Anyway, you can have the last word if you want. I made my point. You made yours. So the next time someone asks for Porsches, think that it's because we do want Porsches, not because we don't want Ruf.

It's never been you Porsche fellows asking anything, it's been you folks replying to the people asking for Ruf.


Either way, this thread should have been locked after the announcement that Porsche was out. All that has come afterwards are stupid reasons & people assuming IGN is actually Che or a Forza-paid fanboy to report false news.

Get real.

 

[sumbrownkid]

@At Vannardini: I bet A Ruf RT-12 can beat that 911 Turbo and that CTR, along with that Ferrari on the Ring.

But your right about there's no substitute for Porsche. But then again, A Ruf is more valued to me than a Porsche. But that's just my opinion.

 

[vannardini]

Beating a F430 with a RT-12 is not as magical as beating with with a 911 Turbo.
But that's just me.

Been a Porsche fanatic my whole life, so my opinion might be a little affected by passion, but hey.

911 Turbo x F430
959 x F40
Carrera GT x Enzo

It's not a matter of performance. It's a matter or rivalry. It's like soccer here in my country. One team without as much tradition as the "big" ones may be winning everything this year... but watching it's game is not as fun as watching a classic between two of the "classical" big teams. It's a matter of passion.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

For Gran Turismo to be the encyclopedia of cars, there are quite a few manufacturers left to add: Porsche, Maserati, Koeniggsegg, etc. And it's not just about the manufacturers as much as the models that are added.

 

[arvin charles]

I've never said that. If you took the time to read, you'd see I'm all for any & all manufacturers in GT. It's folks like you though who again, critique those asking for more Rufs and such since Porsche will not be in the game....

It's never been you Porsche fellows asking anything, it's been you folks replying to the people asking for Ruf.

You're right. I mistook C-Zeta's quote as yours. My bad.

But look in the Ruf thread. I'm asking for more Rufs (I.E. the Greenster, the E-Ruf concept, the RK Coupe, heck I'd love an R50...Nobody even mentioned those...Everyone is like oooh, RT12 or CTR3).

I never critiqued those asking for more Ruf. If anything, it's those who keep saying that Ruf is good enough. (Yes, there are plenty of those in this thread).

BTW, we don't really know if Porsche is 100% out. The quote was it was not likely.

EDIT- I just started re-reading this thread and I noticed you & another member started arguing over the exact same thing starting at page 2...

"*McLaren* View Post
That's true, fine, and dandy. But it is not fact that a Ruf can't replace a Porsche. I'd undeniably would rather have the CTR3 more so than any of the road going Porsches, excluding the Carrera GT."

Also, we have been asking for Porsche, the classic cars & the race cars. It's not all about Ruf v. Porsche. I get the distinct impression that it's you who's focusing too much on that.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

I did not know Kaz owned a Porsche GT3.

"What other cars do you own?
I have a Porsche GT3, a fully tuned Z33 and S2000, a Mercedes SL55 AMG, and a Ford GT."

Source: http://www.importtuner.com/features/impp_0811_gran_turismo_5/formula_d.html

 

[McLaren]

I never critiqued those asking for more Ruf. If anything, it's those who keep saying that Ruf is good enough. (Yes, there are plenty of those in this thread).

Exactly, & you use the same argument against those folks; i.e. Porsche's racing history. Thing is, a lot of those folks were saying that in the terms that Porsche is not included.

BTW, we don't really know if Porsche is 100% out. The quote was it was not likely.

And that's more than anything stating the opposite.

EDIT- I just started re-reading this thread and I noticed you & another member started arguing over the exact same thing starting at page 2...

"*McLaren* View Post
That's true, fine, and dandy. But it is not fact that a Ruf can't replace a Porsche. I'd undeniably would rather have the CTR3 more so than any of the road going Porsches, excluding the Carrera GT."

Also, we have been asking for Porsche, the classic cars & the race cars. It's not all about Ruf v. Porsche. I get the distinct impression that it's you who's focusing too much on that.

Thank you for taking my quote out of context. While you're back there in 2008, please go back & read the other person who pushed the idea that it was a fact Porsche can't be replaced. Sorry, that's an opinion & many folks can think a Porsche is replaceable.

This is where agaaain, many folks like you came in & said otherwise. However, you forget many folks may not actually care for Porsche at all.

 

[SrRd RacinG]

BTW, we don't really know if Porsche is 100% out. The quote was it was not likely

And that's more than anything stating the opposite.

Do you mean obvious?

I wouldn't rule out Porsche 100% either, though it seems unlikely. Again, unlikely does not mean 100%.
If Kaz wasn't willing to reveal the number of cars at the ign interview, why would he reveal which cars would be in it?