Potato...

[ARTAsean]

Does every thread need to degrade into a death spiral about my 🤬 sucks less than your 🤬? Come on guys, is this all you got?

No wonder PD doesn't communicate.

When people such as @DS87 talk out of their butt, it’s very important to discredit them.. else, their posts remain for posterity, misguiding anyone who reads them.

 

[sundaydriving]

The cars I tried seemed fine. I've not tried any donuts, burnouts etc. yet.

I've lost track of all the physics updates. Its never been perfect and maybe it still isn't but it would be nice to know what they changed.

 

[Haitauer]

I say it still - i like the way i can balance the over/understeer in corner with brake and throttle. This is a +

Then, even though the slamming the pedal at exit is not that off putting to me, the game could be just a liiiittle less forgiving on corner exit and off track.

I see the resemblance to AC - actually always have. Going from gts to ac has always been natural to me. Like same laws of physics, AC just more slippery.

Still too divided to cast a vote..

 

[VBR]

Just to remind everyone that the question in the poll is, "How do you feel about the physics in the 1.39 update?" not, 'do you think they're more realistic' or whatever. Feelings are subjective, & thus differ. It's okay for people to feel differently about the physics, & there's absolutely nothing wrong with having an opinion that differs from someone else. Whether we personally like them or not has nothing to do with whether they're more realistic or not, that's a whole 'nother issue. Some of us are gamers, some are sim-racers, some are casual players, some are hardcore, some are pad users & some are wheel users. And, most of us are a mix of some or all of those things, & more besides...

 

[dabz343]

When people such as @DS87 talk out of their butt, it’s very important to discredit them.. else, their posts remain for posterity, misguiding anyone who reads them.

Then discredit them and move on (for obvious reasons)...and try to not discredit yourself in the process.

 

[EES]

My personal opinion is positive since on DS4 it allows me to drive with tcs off much easier. But also I feel its less realistic and easier. That brings me closser to the better drivers.

But it feels like its not fair that I'm faster now since I know they're better, if that makes sense.

 

[Mr P]

I find no less enjoyment being able to put my foot on the throttle quicker on exit When the physics change again with the next update I will have to adapt to that also.. as we all do. With so many physics changes over the years does anyone know of any of the update releases that actually had it perfect or even close to it?

It will change again soon enough make the most of it guys 👍

 

[Groundfish]

Hmmm, melikey n300 NSX at Tsukuba. It’s no longer a drift car! If this update had been in effect I would have raced it last time a bunch. So much more fun to drive. Instead of just drifting everywhere, you add throttle on exit and the weight shifts back and you get the grip, with the caveat, you are under hard acceleration weight transferred to rear equals less grip in front. It’s more intuitive and closer to reality now. I was easily running MUCH more consistent, plus it’s just so much more intuitive and engaging, your inputs do more now what you would expect intuitively.
Weight transfer has always been good laterally for a while now, but what’s awesome now is it’s more prevalent front to back under acceleration/braking. Really cool. You can really feel the ffb go light on exit which is very cool.
When this combo was up imo on wheel the NSX was pretty poor, maybe fun in a Tokyo drift way, but for a car that can pull what that one can in lateral g it was pretty poor.
Now it’s way way improved. You can really transfer the suspension loading more smoothly now from braking to turning to accelerating in a more natural way.
Yeah, I can confirm I really like the way the cars are doing right now.

 

[Lazybike]

If there's any Alien/70000 DR points guys free tonight, maybe they could grab a DS4 and try circuit experience, it would be interesting to see if they can beat their times, I suspect the DS4 maybe faster with better feel now.

 

[ARTAsean]

My personal opinion is positive since on DS4 it allows me to drive with tcs off much easier. But also I feel its less realistic and easier. That brings me closser to the better drivers.

But it feels like its not fair that I'm faster now since I know they're better, if that makes sense.

Wisdom. If PD’s goal was to get more players off of TCS and make the game easier for noobs, they could have just forced softer compound tires in Sport Mode. This would have made everyone faster.

For the record, I’m not suggesting they do that, since that’s a whole other can of worms being opened. I just fundamentally disagree with making the game worse for the most dedicated and skilled players.

 

[Majorwolf72]

Unfortunately that probably wouldn’t work very well, even if you could get a private audience with Kaz.

The problem lies with the asian culture of losing face. Many years ago I worked for a company sourcing technical, shall we say, thingymibobs from Japan mostly, but some stuff from South Korea, and on the whole things well exceptionally well - until they didn’t and then it was an absolute bloody nightmare.

Now, fair play to the Japanese and Koreans as the products we received were delivered well within specification, often way ahead of schedule, and were of top notch quality, but as you would expect from time to time something wouldn’t work as expected. When that happened we did a full analysis and worked out how to solve the issues. We then went back to the supplier with a report of the issue and also our proposed solution.

This is where the problems really began as there was no way in hell they’d implement our solution. They would throw everything including the the kitchen sink at the issue to solve the problem except implement the solution we’d proposed, despite our solution being pretty much the only obvious way to correct the problem.

Naturally this left us totally and utterly frustrated as we couldn’t use the products, and nor could we get the suppliers to successfully resolve the issues.

The answer to our problems came about when one of our team was in Japan with an interpreter, and the interpreter, seeing what we were doing, explained to him the reason why our proposals were not being implemented, and it’s basically about losing face - I’ll explain.

It’s no problem for a product to have an issue, that’s fine as it’s expected from time to time. What is a problem, however, is providing the supplier/manufacturer with the solution. If a Japanese manufacturer were to implement our proposals then it would be an admission that they could not solve the problems themselves, and therefore face would be lost, hence why they tried everything else to solve the issues.

What we had to do was provide them with only a problem description, but in such a way that our already worked out solution was the only obvious choice.

It’s getting better these days, but it’s still an issue.

I‘ve been trying to bring that message across to the good fellow Europeans and Americans here a dozen times at least, they still won’t believe you and rather tell themselves that reason will have to prevail...

I have the absolute same experience! NOTHING will make a Japanese accept your better solution to a problem! (Same in China...) My dad was doing business with them way back in the 60s already and always said: „If there‘s a problem, you have to start over from zero. Improvements they won’t do.“

That leaves us with: Take it or leave it. It may seem strange and utterly stupid to us longnoses. But it is the way it is.

 

[Spirit]

My personal opinion is positive since on DS4 it allows me to drive with tcs off much easier. But also I feel its less realistic and easier. That brings me closser to the better drivers.

I also use a controller, and whilst I respect your opinion I do not share the same sentiment. I feel like the added understeer of these cars will ultimately hurt controller users since we don't have the steering range necessary to overcome it, and the front tire wear for controller users is worse than wheel users in my observations, so more understeer only exasperates that issue.

 

[Groundfish]

I also use a controller, and whilst I respect your opinion I do not share the same sentiment. I feel like the added understeer of these cars will ultimately hurt controller users since we don't have the steering range necessary to overcome it, and the front tire wear for controller users is worse than wheel users in my observations, so more understeer only exasperates that issue.

If you think about it turning the wheels more is exactly what NOT to do when experiencing too much understeer. That’ll make it worse.
What you need to combat it is weight shift to front wheels in most cases. You really should not have to apply full lock much at all if you are in a good line imo. Less steering input you can make is always gonna be faster imo.
Slight lift of throttle will make car follow the front wheels better.
In the case of understeer less steering input equals better result.
Maybe you are well aware of this but maybe not everyone is.

 

[praiano63]

One very good thing after the physic update at least is the Supra GR . The car drive very well now , very good reactions to any inputs , braking , direction and throttle. The stock tune was a real nightmare.
Also i've never seen PD modificate a base tune after they put a car in the game. At least i don't remember any.

I suspect that they build a new physic around this car to promote the Supra GT cup , perhaps toyota wasn't happy at all with the few participation due to the car behaviors.
I even think i will do the next RED BULL RING event , the car is really nice to drive now.

 

[Spirit]

If you think about it turning the wheels more is exactly what NOT to do when experiencing too much understeer. That’ll make it worse.
What you need to combat it is weight shift to front wheels in most cases. You really should not have to apply full lock much at all if you are in a good line imo. Less steering input you can make is always gonna be faster imo.
Slight lift of throttle will make car follow the front wheels better.
In the case of understeer less steering input equals better result.
Maybe you are well aware of this but maybe not everyone is.

I'd love to be able to turn less, but every corner on a controller is already full lock on the analog stick for varying periods of time. That's the only way I'm able to hold an apex speed anywhere close to what my wheel-using peers are achieving in the races I participate in.

 

[BreakerOhio]

If you think about it turning the wheels more is exactly what NOT to do when experiencing too much understeer. That’ll make it worse.
What you need to combat it is weight shift to front wheels in most cases. You really should not have to apply full lock much at all if you are in a good line imo. Less steering input you can make is always gonna be faster imo.
Slight lift of throttle will make car follow the front wheels better.
In the case of understeer less steering input equals better result.
Maybe you are well aware of this but maybe not everyone is.

I wanted to say this to help those having understeer exit issues with the new 1.39 physics. This is what has changed in how the gameplay is more authentic then just steer the wheel in, hold steering and managing the pedals. Now continuing to hold the steering wheel on exit and adding gas overdrives the front tires as they should until the understeer is combated by transferring weight back to the front tires.
I really enjoy driving in GTS with these 1.39 changes.

 

[zzz_pt]

I wanted to say this to help those having understeer exit issues with the new 1.39 physics. This is what has changed in how the gameplay is more authentic then just steer the wheel in, hold steering and managing the pedals. Now continuing to hold the steering wheel on exit and adding gas overdrives the front tires as they should until the understeer is combated by transferring weight back to the front tires.
I really enjoy driving in GTS with these 1.39 changes.

Not when you have 500-600+ HP on the rear wheels. That amount of power should overcome the front end grip and we should be able to control mid corner and corner exit angle.

Maybe low powered, road cars. But not race cars for sure.

 

[Groundfish]

Another thing I just noticed, maybe it’s always been there is a great explanation of the difference between weak abs and default when you play with those.
If you read it you might wonder if what you are using is best in terms of maximum control of the tire grip equation.
Again, it was not more realistic or better to run an n300 Acura NSX on Tsukuba where the rear tires would explode into a drift anytime the throttle was used. The cars balance was good, traction was not. It was like they had that thing on the bottle!
Now it’s great to drive even though I wish I could sit on the left.
Gr3 on Brands for me now as someone who drives for Chevy, I cannot be as fast in the vette as I can in a certain mr.
Before pretty much everywhere I was faster in Chevy gr3.
Before a throttle blip would bust the tires loose too easily for my taste. Now the cars respond excellent in low speed corners to slight blips if you haven’t gotten the line perfect. You can blip and when the front dumps down a bit the radius tightens which is correct.
Before yeah they would a bit, but not as responsive as they are now.
I’ve been driving the vette forever gr3 and I am pretty good in it, always had to run tcs2. Now I can run no tcs pretty easily. Depending on the turn and line you are in if you are ONLY RELEASING steering angle after apex and you are maintaining a decent minimum speed now you don’t have to worry so much about sliding sideways.
Hairpins and tighter corners are just so so much better imo.
With the old model I never really even bothered driving a lot of the mr gr3.
Now they are fun to drive.
Even really powerful cars with racing slicks don’t just explode the rear tires like they were doing before. Not as easily as was happening before imo.
For me this improvement means driving more of the different machines is fun.
Then again, I kinda run counter to what most like because to me the more tire wear the better!
I’m incapable of running these alien laps with excessive slip angle countersteering all over lap after lap so I like the way it is now.
Seems most people hate tire wear but I love it.
Seems a lot of folks hate the update but I love it.
Lol opinions are like $$&**&&++#@$$ we all have them.

 

[MOPARbarrett5]

This aspect of the new physics I like a lot.

 

[The Cake]

I find no less enjoyment being able to put my foot on the throttle quicker on exit When the physics change again with the next update I will have to adapt to that also.. as we all do. With so many physics changes over the years does anyone know of any of the update releases that actually had it perfect or even close to it?

It will change again soon enough make the most of it guys 👍

My personal meaning is it was at is best before 1.37. The two last updates is to much understeering in every possible way. T300. A/S

 

[zzz_pt]

This aspect of the new physics I like a lot.

Well, today a friend sent me this:

GT-R GR.3, stock setup, BOP active:

 

[The Cake]

This aspect of the new physics I like a lot.

Hahaha

 

[ShiftingGears]

No wonder PD doesn't communicate...can you blame them?

In a word...yes.

 

[pantherjag]

Well I have played quite a lot since the update I have to say that I find the cars, and iv tried various cars and classes, to drive very similarly from 1.38 to 1.39.

I'd go as far to say that if it wasnt for the fact a change of physics was announced I would probably be none the wiser tbh.

However I do know they have been changed and iv read a lot of opinions on this thread. The most common complaint being excessive understeer and being able to stamp the throttle down without worry.

I'm certainly not feeling excessive understeer, a little more maybe but nothing to worry about. I agree you can be more liberal with the throttle on corner exit but I think this comes part in parcel with the understeer. If your under steering then you have to wait longer to get on the throttle meaning the car is more straightened up perhaps giving the impression you can stamp on the throttle with less consequence. In 1.38 as long as you had the car straight you could power out of corners hard in majority of cars.

In saying that the car I'm most familiar with in the game is the ft-1 and in a quick test at tskuba with RS tyres I had no trouble spinning it coming out of the various hairpin.

All in all I'm happy with the handling and enjoy the driving experience just as much in 1.39 as I did in 1.38

 

[breeminator]

Hmm, just tried Gr.3 for the first time since the update, had a go with the R8 in free practice for the next Nations Cup at Dragon Trail - Gardens.

The ability to break rear wheel traction using the throttle is definitely massively changed. It seems to have gone from one extreme to another. I used to find it a bit excessively easy to get into an unrecoverable spin. Because there wasn't the feedback that you get in a real car, or even with an Xbox controller (triggers vibrate with loss of traction, in a progressive manner), I found it hard to respond fast enough to a throttle induced loss of rear wheel traction. I felt like I was providing the same inputs as I saw top drivers provide in videos, but I binned it far too often, so had to race with TCS 2. So in that sense I found 1.38 physics a bit frustrating. But 1.39 seems to have gone too far the other way. I've just built the same car in Forza Horizon 4 - converted the R8 to RWD, gave it race tyres, race weight reduction, got it to a very similar spec to the BoP Gr.3 R8 in GTS. Now, some people say FH4 is pure arcade, but that car easily breaks rear wheel traction with the throttle. Mash the throttle exiting a corner in 2nd at 80mph and you will very much break rear wheel traction. Even in 3rd at 100mph around a sweeping bend at full throttle, steer too much and you'll spin the back wheels. However, the combination of feedback from the throttle trigger and the progressive nature of the handling means I never find it a problem to control it.

Do I prefer 1.38 or 1.39 in terms of throttle and rear wheel traction? TBH, it's tough for me to pick. I prefer FH4's physics to either of them - it has more ability to break rear wheel traction than even 1.38, but the loss of grip is more progressive when it happens, and to me, it feels more natural and realistic. Dynamic friction of tyres is still 80% of static friction for a dry road, so the car shouldn't suddenly feel like the rear wheels are on ice once they start to spin.

From a personal point of view, as I hadn't mastered the art of driving with TCS 0 in 1.38 and never binning it, 1.39 removes a disadvantage from not having that skill, so I guess I ought to do better relative to people with that skill. However, after 8 laps of DTG I was 5 secs off the #1 practice time so the aliens don't seem to have much to worry about.....

However, the other big change is that it now seems to be much easier to make the back end slide via weight transfer (unweighting the rear) rather than throttle induced wheelspin. I can't be certain about that as I hadn't driven that car around that track in 1.38 to have a reference, but with what other people have said in this thread, and how it felt, and the fact I haven't really felt that before in the game with any other Gr.3 car around any track, I think that is new.

One reason they might have made this change is a LOT of people were binning it in races due to feeling like they should drive without TCS when their skills weren't up to it. Maybe PD have analysed race data and identified that a massive number of collisions/penalties were arising from that? That might have a negative impact on my DR, as I'm used to passing quite a few people due to them binning it while ahead of me.

Overall, I think I'd prefer something in between 1.38 and 1.39.

 

[Pigems]

One very good thing after the physic update at least is the Supra GR . The car drive very well now , very good reactions to any inputs , braking , direction and throttle. The stock tune was a real nightmare.
Also i've never seen PD modificate a base tune after they put a car in the game. At least i don't remember any.

I suspect that they build a new physic around this car to promote the Supra GT cup , perhaps toyota wasn't happy at all with the few participation due to the car behaviors.
I even think i will do the next RED BULL RING event , the car is really nice to drive now.

I was thinking the exact same thing about the extra grip, the Supra would really benefit from it and I wouldn’t be surprised if Toyota had at least something to do with it. I haven’t driven it since the update but I’d be willing to bet it’s a LOT more user friendly now.

I didn’t personally like the update at first but it’s growing on me now. I’d have to say that overall it feels like it’s easier to drive in GTS now, tires are less likely to break loose and the seem to recover faster now when they actually do break free.

 

[Veinz]

Not sure how I feel about it tbh, the physics will probably get changed again anyway. I just want it to be as realistic as reasonably possible.

 

[zzz_pt]

I’d have to say that overall it feels like it’s easier to drive in GTS now, tires are less likely to break loose and the seem to recover faster now when they actually do break free.

I feel exactly the opposite with the Gr.3 Crovette, at least. I've been practicing for a 21 lap race around Nurb GP tomorrow.

Before the update I had a 41:11 (using softs). Today I did a 41:31 with some mistakes (probably could be 10sec faster), but the understeer is attrocious and the tire wear is higher both in the front (because I need to use BB +1 instead of +3) and the rear, because after the 3rd lap, the rear tires tend to slip way too easily, increasing wear. The performance of this car at least, goes down really quickly once the tire wear reaches 20 - 25%.

It's really frustrating to drive around now. I find myself trying weird lines as if I was driving an FF car so I can point the front wheels straight out of corners. I need brake earlier and at the same time hit later apexes because I can't turn the rear with the throttle as before.

For reference:

Before UP: fastest lap with softs in the race was 1:53:7 - slowest lap 1:57:3 (after 9 laps 8x tire wear).
After the UP: fastest 1:54:1 - slowest 1:58s (after 9 laps 8x tire wear).

 

[Tou2istTrophy]

Not sure how I feel about it tbh, the physics will probably get changed again anyway. I just want it to be as realistic as reasonably possible.

^
Every physics update should be in the direction of realism. Regardless of whether people like it or not.

(I can’t say if this is or not because I don’t have real world experience)

 

[ScottPuss20]

I think you will find myself and many others were providing constructive criticism stating what they like or mostly dislike about the new physics. But you've come in this thread and told everyone to go play a different game if they don't like it. That sums up your contribution to this thread.

This isn't a small physics update which people will forget about. It's killed the personality of the cars and you can smash the throttle on corner exit without consequence. The physics just feel dead.

The new physics have changed the way races play out. Just look at the last round of the FIA Manufacturers series last night. Going into this round Aston were 12th and Audi 13th with 12th spot needed to go to the New York World tour. The Audi was not even competitive due to its MR drivetrain. If anyone watched on stream the way @Tidgney was driving to try and save his tyres and not spin you will understand. Audi were hit so much by the update, Chevrolet, who were 15th going into this round, jumped Renault (also Mid-engined) and Audi.

PD are messing with everything they have built up to in the past 1 and a half years. The best physics engine we have had and the best BOP we have had - only made worse by ridiculously high tyre wear multipliers. And the timing of it, with 1 round to go in the second FIA season, has messed up some guys' aspirations to make it to a world tour too.

All we asked for was less tyre wear and a few tweaks to the BOP and they throw us a new physics engine. Now they will have to re-balance the cars - but with what data? 1 night's worth of racing? The only solution is to revert back to the old physics engine. And that's what myself and a load of other World finalists will be pushing for leading up to the Nurburgring world tour (as well as other changes).

I don't understand why it's soo controversial to tell people to play something else. If you aren't happy you shouldn't bother playing the game. There's no point crying about the physics if they aren't going to change. It's a simple case of working within the circumstances and dealing with it in the best way possible. Professional drivers are expected to go out and put in their full effort no matter what circuit, conditions or car. I struggle to see this as anything more than an excuse for poor performance. Call me idiotic but if you aren't willing to adapt, you cannot call yourself a driver. Yes, the physics are crap. But don't let that stop you from racing. I've driven a heap of awful cars, such as the 488 Challenge in Project Cars 2. The car is a huge pain to drive but IT'S STILL DRIVEABLE and you have to race accordingly to ensure that you stay on the track. Same applies to this game. The point I'm trying to make is that physics are just another variable to deal with, and your ability to cope with it will decide whether or not you are the best driver. That's the test and a necessary evil in my opinion.