Potato...

[J.D]

There is something wrong with the physics model in this game i drive mostly in Bugatti Veyron and i feel the car behave different at times and i don't change anything in the car setting nor change tyres.

 

[Voodoovaj]

I wouldn't say it's boring but before, when you pushed past the limit at least you looked cool doing it. Now when I watch top times, I can see the nose jutting back and forth on the exit like a Cadillac from people having to back off the throttle to keep the tires down. Even top times are using a staccato throttle pressure because it's easier to back off at the limit than to even try a smooth exit.

This is random but here's some fun footage of a driving coach talking the owner of a Dodge Hellcat through the Ring. The Hellcat has less under-steer than a Porsche in GT Sport. Yeah, we'll all get used to it but the game just doesn't look or feel right.

Oh, and thank you for being so pleasantly disagreeable and keeping the conversation civil.

I dunno, to me, it seems that the lap times at the limits are taking place at a point where most real world stuff doesn't dare encroach. Not that it isn't very close to reality, but that in reality, the consequences of pushing to that point is lunacy.

So, for instance, in the video you posted, that guy isn't really pushing that Hellcat. How do I know? Because when you are REALLY pushing, it doesn't look like that. No one is that calm. People don't stay in their seat like that. Also, most people aren't going to want to destroy their nice new car.

A few years ago, during a break at a track day, the track owner brought out a couple of (soon to be) track rentals. A pair of well worn BMW M3's (second gen). My buddy did the driving and I sat in the passenger seat. "Thrash" is a good word to describe what he did to those cars. There was no attempt to be smooth at all. It was all "how fast can this be pitched in to the corner before we go off?" How late and hard can we brake? How soon can the throttle be stabbed? In short, since these cars were going to be rebuilt anyway, he tried to break them.

Even with the seat belt on, I was bouncing off the door panel on left turns and nearly tearing the panel off on rights. It was violent. Chris, my buddy, swept through a double apex right so hard that the edges of the rim scraped against the asphalt.

In GTS, there is no element of conservation. Not really. The tire wear is a game play element. It's not modeled after real wear. If the tire sidewalls are even close to accurate, you can often see in the replays how they collapse under the load of the turn. Imagine the uproar from the community if, when you curled the edge of the tire under the rim, the tire came off and you lost all traction!

When I take my car to the track, I don't drive it the way I would if I were in game. I don't go pushing the limits of where the braking zone is. I don't test brake fade. I don't go violently throwing the car around in the same way. I try to be smooth and have fun, because I paid real money for this car and I need to drive it home AND still use it the day after!


Every time these discussions come up, it seems like apples and oranges comparisons to me. Most people in these threads have no actual track experience to compare against. There's comparisons to generalities or videos that are out of context. In the real world, spooning on a different brand of tire will create a massive difference in your driving experience. In the real world, your track vehicle can go from feeling amazing to awful because clouds rolled in, or the sun came out, or the temperature went up, or down...it can be maddening. I crashed on my motorcycle once because I neglected to drop my tire pressure 4 psi...4!!!

There has yet to be a version that was not met with complaints of some sort. IMHO, this latest version is the best so far. All the cars are usable, yet still unique in how you have to drive them. Trail braking is good and controllable (if you have the BB set correctly). And, most importantly, the skill gap seems to be decreased, which makes for better racing. Isn't that the point?

 

[fastone371]

I dunno, to me, it seems that the lap times at the limits are taking place at a point where most real world stuff doesn't dare encroach. Not that it isn't very close to reality, but that in reality, the consequences of pushing to that point is lunacy.

So, for instance, in the video you posted, that guy isn't really pushing that Hellcat. How do I know? Because when you are REALLY pushing, it doesn't look like that. No one is that calm. People don't stay in their seat like that. Also, most people aren't going to want to destroy their nice new car.

A few years ago, during a break at a track day, the track owner brought out a couple of (soon to be) track rentals. A pair of well worn BMW M3's (second gen). My buddy did the driving and I sat in the passenger seat. "Thrash" is a good word to describe what he did to those cars. There was no attempt to be smooth at all. It was all "how fast can this be pitched in to the corner before we go off?" How late and hard can we brake? How soon can the throttle be stabbed? In short, since these cars were going to be rebuilt anyway, he tried to break them.

Even with the seat belt on, I was bouncing off the door panel on left turns and nearly tearing the panel off on rights. It was violent. Chris, my buddy, swept through a double apex right so hard that the edges of the rim scraped against the asphalt.

In GTS, there is no element of conservation. Not really. The tire wear is a game play element. It's not modeled after real wear. If the tire sidewalls are even close to accurate, you can often see in the replays how they collapse under the load of the turn. Imagine the uproar from the community if, when you curled the edge of the tire under the rim, the tire came off and you lost all traction!

When I take my car to the track, I don't drive it the way I would if I were in game. I don't go pushing the limits of where the braking zone is. I don't test brake fade. I don't go violently throwing the car around in the same way. I try to be smooth and have fun, because I paid real money for this car and I need to drive it home AND still use it the day after!


Every time these discussions come up, it seems like apples and oranges comparisons to me. Most people in these threads have no actual track experience to compare against. There's comparisons to generalities or videos that are out of context. In the real world, spooning on a different brand of tire will create a massive difference in your driving experience. In the real world, your track vehicle can go from feeling amazing to awful because clouds rolled in, or the sun came out, or the temperature went up, or down...it can be maddening. I crashed on my motorcycle once because I neglected to drop my tire pressure 4 psi...4!!!

There has yet to be a version that was not met with complaints of some sort. IMHO, this latest version is the best so far. All the cars are usable, yet still unique in how you have to drive them. Trail braking is good and controllable (if you have the BB set correctly). And, most importantly, the skill gap seems to be decreased, which makes for better racing. Isn't that the point?

The only thing that I dont really agree with here is that the update improved the driving. I am not even close to being fast but I like the cars when they are a little more unforgiving, now I have a harder time putting some distance between myself and someone who may not drive with the same etiquette and bump me off the track. To me it just seems the cars plow the front end far more than cars in real life do, it seems a little unnatural. Of course because you cant feel the car with your butt and are limited to visual cues it could simply be a function of too much apex speed on the game. There is a reason real race simulators move to simulate car motion to the "driver"

 

[VBR]

I wonder if we'll get any tweaks to the physics in tomorrow's update...

 

[Pedinhuh]

They really need to stop changing the driving physics with each update, gets kinda annoying to have to "learn" how to drive my favorite cars again

 

[Voodoovaj]

To me it just seems the cars plow the front end far more than cars in real life do, it seems a little unnatural.

I have found that I have had to change the brake balance of every car I use. A lot of cars need a little more front bias to get weight onto the nose. Some cars need the bias dialed to the back, because you can hear tire screeching (and you can see smoke) on heavy braking.

For instance, I found the Gr 3 Subaru works well with a +2 front bias as does the Hyundai, even though they are under steering cars to begin with. Not to mention that aggressive downshifting, which was always a problem with the GR3 Huracan and GR3 Ferrari, is more consistent across the cars. You have to make sure you don't over rev on downshifts and cause unwanted diff behaviours.

I think this is where people are having issues with under steering. You can either put too much brake to the font, or not enough, or you can engage the diff too much and not be able to turn, or engage the diff WAY TOO much and lock the rear.


The reason I say this is that I don't find it difficult to hold a line through a corner, unless the tires are dirty or I've cooked them on hard braking. So, the cars aren't under steering in general, I only find under steer on braking, and I find that I can fix it in almost every case by adjusting bias or being more mindful on downshifts. Also, trail braking needs to be done correctly. You can't still be fully on the brakes at the apex.

 

[mirial]

I wonder if we'll get any tweaks to the physics in tomorrow's update...

Keep ABS as per 1.39, return balance of cars to 1.38, balance tyre wear front and rear to suit 👍

Best compromise, if we must compromise.

 

[Slapped]

Keep ABS as per 1.39, return balance of cars to 1.38, balance tyre wear front and rear to suit 👍

Best compromise, if we must compromise.

I'd rather the hair trigger brakes were fixed so we wouldn't need to use ABS - at least on cars that don't have ABS, but yeah, I'm with you on that.

 

[Voodoovaj]

Keep ABS as per 1.39, return balance of cars to 1.38, balance tyre wear front and rear to suit 👍

Best compromise, if we must compromise.

I have read that this game under steers with every change in the tires/physics. I would definitely not change the cars because now, the Gr3 Huracan, GR3 Ferrari, etc. are no longer maniacal cars to use. They are still lively, but not pointless.

I can't comment on tire wear because I haven't experienced anything beyond last week's Race C where it was almost nonexistent. But, if that's how it's working, I liked it. I liked that there was a little less grip, but it wasn't the end of the world when you lost 20% of the tire's life.

 

[mirial]

I'd rather the hair trigger brakes were fixed so we wouldn't need to use ABS - at least on cars that don't have ABS, but yeah, I'm with you on that.

The reason I'm just about ok with it, is because at least the skill of balancing the cars on the brakes has returned. Unbelievable how something so fundamental has been made acceptable after more than 18 months because it encapsulates other skills such as managing tyre wear. I thoroughly detested the old system because it always slowed the car down 2-3 mph too much with the way I use the brakes and the sensation of sliding was absent......trying to prevent the car from sliding as little as possible was always punished immediately....not good.

But no ABS would be best of all on those ABS free cars if the regs allowed it.

I have read that this game under steers with every change in the tires/physics. I would definitely not change the cars because now, we the Gr3 Huracan, GR3 Ferrari, etc. are no longer maniacal cars to use. They are still lively, but not pointless.

I can't comment on tire wear because I haven't experienced anything beyond last week's Race C where it was almost nonexistent. But, if that's how it's working, I liked it. I liked that there was a little less grip, but it wasn't the end of the world when you lost 20% of the tire's life.

I think there is a lot of variation in how folk interpret balance, and for me prior to 1.39, the GT3 458 would have been somewhere between neutral and mild oversteer. I don't think the understeer that PD understands as understeer is helpful as it forces everyone to drive the same, on the same lines etc. I think they could easily set up the cars that tend to oversteer with more positive rake so that the rear runs at a higher slip angle than the front, yet the front will always have some 'push'.

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[GTPorsche]

They did a good job fixing the wheelie issue.

 

[Skygrasper550]

They did a good job fixing the wheelie issue.

That's nice but, why is the Ferrari still going straight on the final corner

 

[Loverson]

They did a good job fixing the wheelie issue.

The AI seems to be more confused with these constant physics changes

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[GTPorsche]

That was the same before the Wheelie Patch

Can't be. That's the same setup I used prior to 1.39, switched it for 1.39 when the issues started, and never experienced any issues before the last patch.

 

[kjeldsen]

*EDIT*

 

[VBR]

No discernible changes to the physics model so far as I can tell in the 1.40 update. Drove a few cars that are very familiar to me, still felt the same.

 

[Beezer215]

I think they changed some physics. I used the E-Type last night and it was well more planted instead of feeling like it's rolling around on under-inflated beach balls. Less body roll. I wasn't scared of it constantly wanting to break loose.

 

[GTPorsche]

I had the same **** with the Ferrari before the Wheelie patch, the patch introduced Wheelie on top of the AI losing control in the first corner..

I mean, I had my 330 P4 set up in a manner that it should have been lifting the front wheels under hard acceleration and it wasn't, so I'm not sure how you were experiencing something that no one else had ever mentioned previously.

 

[ScottPuss20]

I feel as though the understeer issue has been rectified somewhat. I drove the GT-R GT3 and it felt less planted on exit, hence more likely to oversteer. The car felt better through the fast left-right-left section on Dragon Trail Seaside - when you get the entry correct, you can go through the sequence without lifting unlike the previous update, where you had to scrub off more speed. The car feels a bit more eager, almost like the first time I played the game (in August 2016). You can still feel the weight in the front but it can be thrown around a bit more than before.

 

[fastone371]

I mean, I had my 330 P4 set up in a manner that it should have been lifting the front wheels under hard acceleration and it wasn't, so I'm not sure how you were experiencing something that no one else had ever mentioned previously.

My 330P4 did the exact thing as was shown in the video, it only started with the 1.39 patch. It has to do with your suspension settings, I am not running the default set up. If you change your suspension settings which I had to do the make the car handle better it will fix this problem at race start and the car will stay on track.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

I feel as though the understeer issue has been rectified somewhat.

I'm still getting understeer with AWD Rally cars in the dirt. Nothing has changed.

 

[O604]

Not a big fan of the rally races so I don't care that much about dirt settings but tried a rally race in GT League yesterday at Colorado Springs.

The FFB felt awful on my G29. Just felt random, like it had nothing to do with the road at all. Felt very different to the rally races I tried before. It could just be my lack of experience though.

 

[BallPtPenTheif]

Not a big fan of the rally races so I don't care that much about dirt settings but tried a rally race in GT League yesterday at Colorado Springs.

The FFB felt awful on my G29. Just felt random, like it had nothing to do with the road at all. Felt very different to the rally races I tried before. It could just be my lack of experience though.

You're probably correct. Gameplay wise, the texture on the rally courses have always been generically the same anywhere on the course. You'd expect the grip to be less on the grass but it isn't.

 

[mirial]

Keep ABS as per 1.39, return balance of cars to 1.38, balance tyre wear front and rear to suit 👍

Best compromise, if we must compromise.

1.40 ABS default is at least as powerful as 1.38
1.40 Weak ABS a bit stronger than 1.39 default
1.40 mid-corner is about the same as 1.39
1.40 exit is a bit looser

An explanation as to why they have reverted back to the 1.38 'like' default ABS would be useful because no one seemed to be having major issues, unless they are still obligated to cover for that 1%.

If someone could verify if the 1.40 default ABS is a bit more intrusive than 1.38, then we could perhaps see where they are trying to go with these changes; ie, they are trying to cover for complete beginners whilst encouraging them to switch to weak with practice.

 

[MisterWaffles]

I think a reason why some of the cars feel a little better is because the default setups for BoP have been altered. The specific horsepower and weight of each Gr.3 car is identical to how it was before the update, but now some have changed handling/braking/stability/acceleration/top speed stats when applying BoP before the update vs now. Some have changed by as much as .3 as evidence by the McLaren F1 which had a .3 reduction in top speed.

@Tassie_tiger compiled a complete list of all the Gr.3 changes:

Alfa 4C down in Max. Speed and Stability.
BMW M6's down in Max. Speed and Cornering.
BMW Z4 down in Max. Speed and Stability.
Citroen GT down in Accel. and Stability.
Dodge Viper down in Stability.
Hyundai Genesis down 0.2 in Max. Speed.
Jaguar F-Type down in Max. Speed and Stability.
Lambo Huracan down in Max. Speed and Braking.
Lexus RC'16 down in Max. Speed.
Lexus RC'17 up in Accel. and Stability.
Mazda Atenza down in Max. Speed.
McLaren 650 down in Max. Speed and up in Stability.
McLaren F1 down 0.3 in Max. Speed.
Mercedes AMG GT3 up in Max. Speed but down in Stability.
Porsche 911 down in Max. Speed, Cornering, and down 0.2 Stability.
Renault RS01 down in Max. Speed.
Subaru WRX down in Stability.
Toyota FT-1 down in Accel., and down 0.2 in Max. Speed and Stability.
Toyota Supra down 0.2 in Stability.
Volkswagen Bettle down in Accel. and Stability.

If you’re going to compare the handling of Gr.3 cars before and after the update to see which one works for you, these are the ones to go for.

 

[ThePotatoKing]

In general, the cars feel more planted. Understeer is more prevalent of course, but at least it isn't impossible to snap the rear anymore.

 

[GT_Alex74]

Regarding the stats, I think it's just they changed the way those are calculated. I think someone has planned some testing though, so wait and see.

 

[Tassie_tiger]

I think a reason why some of the cars feel a little better is because the default setups for BoP have been altered. The specific horsepower and weight of each Gr.3 car is identical to how it was before the update, but now some have changed handling/braking/stability/acceleration/top speed stats when applying BoP before the update vs now. Some have changed by as much as .3 as evidence by the McLaren F1 which had a .3 reduction in top speed.

@Tassie_tiger compiled a complete list of all the Gr.3 changes:

Alfa 4C down in Max. Speed and Stability.
BMW M6's down in Max. Speed and Cornering.
BMW Z4 down in Max. Speed and Stability.
Citroen GT down in Accel. and Stability.
Dodge Viper down in Stability.
Hyundai Genesis down 0.2 in Max. Speed.
Jaguar F-Type down in Max. Speed and Stability.
Lambo Huracan down in Max. Speed and Braking.
Lexus RC'16 down in Max. Speed.
Lexus RC'17 up in Accel. and Stability.
Mazda Atenza down in Max. Speed.
McLaren 650 down in Max. Speed and up in Stability.
McLaren F1 down 0.3 in Max. Speed.
Mercedes AMG GT3 up in Max. Speed but down in Stability.
Porsche 911 down in Max. Speed, Cornering, and down 0.2 Stability.
Renault RS01 down in Max. Speed.
Subaru WRX down in Stability.
Toyota FT-1 down in Accel., and down 0.2 in Max. Speed and Stability.
Toyota Supra down 0.2 in Stability.
Volkswagen Bettle down in Accel. and Stability.

If you’re going to compare the handling of Gr.3 cars before and after the update to see which one works for you, these are the ones to go for.

I have no way of knowing when those changes happened.
Maybe all of it happened in v1.40, or maybe none of it.
My guess is that it's all happened with a few cars here and there slowly over a period of months, because they are the changes I've noted since v1.34.
There's also a chance that some of those changes may have happened even before that, and I haven't spotted it during some random car checks.

Sorry.