PP-Tuning system correlation is now ruined

[Daniel55]

Update 1.23 ruined the PP system because it isn't registering the suspension modifications and players can mow have the same car with the same PP, but with different performance.

If someone at PD is seeing this, PLEASE restore this change to how it was before! This is basically a bigger exploit/inconvenience especially for online lobbies just because the PP system is not perfect.

My bad for not testing this more, but i was mislead by the fact that the car specs were not updating. Modifying the suspension settings changes the car performance, but the specs sheet is not updating, which is bad in my opinion because now we have to spend more time to test the tune, taking the car for a spin after every change, instead of just seeing the modification taken into account on the specs sheet.

What's worse is that now, players can have the same PP rating, even if the cars don't have the same performance . This is in my opinion a bigger exploit than the previous PP system, especially in online lobbies. The PP should reflect the overall performance rating of the car (that's why it's called Performance Points after all) otherwise it's useless.

Below is the initial post, just for reference for the first replies.

Update 1.23 ruined the tuning system by completely "deleting" the effects of the suspension adjustments. How can someone at PD think that this is a good idea?

A big section of the tuning system is now broken because tweaking the suspension settings have literally no effect on the car's performance.

What's the point in having different suspension types if the tweaks have no effect? Why should people pay for the more expensive suspension that unlocks all the customisation options if those have no effect? Why is there a digital book (the apex book or whatever it's called) detailing what every setting does if in reality those settings are not taken into account?

Edit: to clarify, changing the suspension settings don't change either the performance of the car, or the PP rating. As you can see in the pics below, the Acceleration Performance, Stability and Rotational G don't change anymore if I change the suspension settings:

The modifications change the car performance, but they are not reflected on the specs sheet

 

[Samus]

Eh? The settings still have an effect on the car, they just don't affect the PP.

This is more in line with real world racing where a race car doesn't suddenly not meet the regulations because you tweaked your setup.

 

[Bojador]

You’re saying they have no effect on the performance of the car or the calculated performance points?

 

[Larzi-]

A big section of the tuning system is now broken because tweaking the suspension settings have literally no effect on the car's performance.

What's the point in having different suspension types if the tweaks have no effect? Why should people pay for the more expensive suspension that unlocks all the customisation options if those have no effect? Why is there a digital book (the apex book or whatever it's called) detailing what every setting does if in reality those settings are not taken into account?

What? Suspension tuning still affects cars performance and handling. It just dont change the pp-number anymore.

 

[Daniel55]

Eh? The settings still have an effect on the car, they just don't affect the PP.

This is more in line with real world racing where a race car doesn't suddenly not meet the regulations because you tweaked your setup.

Changing all those settings from the suspension system should change the PP rating as well because they affect the performance of the car, just like in real life

You’re saying they have no effect on the performance of the car or the calculated performance points?

If i tweak the suspension settings, the PP rating is not changing. In real life, modifying those parameters would also change the performance of the car.

 

[Neris__]

Atleast we won't see monster truck tunes anymore. It is a good change.

 

[Daniel55]

What? Suspension tuning still affects cars performance and handling. It just dont change the pp-number anymore.

If they affect the car performance and handling, why isn't the PP updating as well? The pp reflects the performance of the car, changing those settings should also change the PP, like it was before. This is a step backwards because PD can't figure out how to implement a good PP calculation method

 

[Larzi-]

From the patch notes:
4. Car Settings
　- Changed the calculation of the Performance Points (PP) in ‘Car Settings’ so that measurements are taken with stock Differential Gear (LSD) and Suspension settings.

The change was made to prevent exploits.

 

[RobertHammer]

It was done because many players used suspension exploits online , side effect is that it also affects exploits for grinding but this was expected

 

[Samus]

Changing all those settings from the suspension system should change the PP rating as well because they affect the performance of the car, just like in real life


If i tweak the suspension settings, the PP rating is not changing. In real life, modifying those parameters would also change the performance of the car.

It would, but it wouldn't affect the legality of the car for the racing series like PP does. That was always the problem with this system. Your setup shouldn't affect whether you're legal for an event or not.

Perhaps they should change the name though, because yes, it obviously does literally affect the performance. Or just get rid of it entirely and use real world style regulations, eg your car has to be <X length, <3000cc, NA, RWD etc etc. Anything else, it's up to you.

 

[Daniel55]

From the patch notes:
4. Car Settings
　- Changed the calculation of the Performance Points (PP) in ‘Car Settings’ so that measurements are taken with stock Differential Gear (LSD) and Suspension settings.

The change was made to prevent exploits.

Yes, because as I said, PD can't figure out a good formula for the PP calculation.

 

[Scaff]

Eh? The settings still have an effect on the car, they just don't affect the PP.

This is more in line with real world racing where a race car doesn't suddenly not meet the regulations because you tweaked your setup.

Not quite true.

The majority of series will have limits on suspension tuning (and some on diff tuning), a limited number even enforce zero changes. Consider such regs cover areas such as minimum ride heights, limits on camber and toe, limits on gear ratios that can be used, etc.

Having these areas within PP, while not perfect (as a 'by series' set of limits on values would be more accurate) does reflect reality.

 

[Daniel55]

The settings still have an effect on the car, they just don't affect the PP.

Are you sure they still have an effect on the car? I just changed those settings and all the car specs were the same. They don't change anymore...

 

[RacinLei]

Im with you @Daniel55

Only the wings effect the pp system right now. I guess in the next patch they remove the entire pp system.
Its complete useless now.

Ps: but @ the end, lost 10 points and still hit the same times 🤣

 

[mynameis66]

If they affect the car performance and handling, why isn't the PP updating as well? The pp reflects the performance of the car, changing those settings should also change the PP, like it was before. This is a step backwards because PD can't figure out how to implement a good PP calculation method

This is how it should be,before the update your PP went up,by adding custom suspension,your PP then changed again every time you made a change to the settings.I think that its better now,no more of them silly ride height tunes.lol
This does affect how the car drives,for example go and drop the ride height to its lowest,damper,arb etc to there minimum or maximum and do a quick lap on a short track.Do it again with a better setup,you`ll feel the difference.Just my opinion,not going to argue over it. 👍

 

[05XR8]

I noticed adding the widebody to the S14, lowered the PP. It does come with extra adjustable aero parts though.

 

[AlexWilmot]

Are you sure they still have an effect on the car? I just changed those settings and all the car specs were the same. They don't change anymore...

The PP score doesnt change but the car behavior changes with each adjustment

 

[KAlex122]

Was riuned before. Is hopefully ok now.

 

[Samus]

Not quite true.

The majority of series will have limits on suspension tuning (and some on diff tuning), a limited number even enforce zero changes. Consider such regs cover areas such as minimum ride heights, limits on camber and toe, limits on gear ratios that can be used, etc.

Having these areas within PP, while not perfect (as a 'by series' set of limits on values would be more accurate) does reflect reality.

Well yes that's what I was getting at, the regulations set out all the limitations on everything and you can do whatever you want within those limits. Well, you can physically go outside them but if scrutineering find out, you'll be DQ'd.

Perhaps that then is the better approach, although it'd be a lot of effort adding in tuning limitations for all their events.

 

[Daniel55]

The PP score doesnt change but the car behavior changes with each adjustment

I uploaded 2 pics (before and after modifications) showing no effects on the behaviour of the car. If the car does indeed change in performance even if those written specs don't show t, then this is even worse...

Edit: typo

 

[AlexWilmot]

I uploaded 2 pics (before and after modifications) showing no effects on the behaviour of the car. If the car does indeed change in performance even if those written specs don't show t, then this is even worse...

Edit: typo

well pictures aren't going to show the change in a car's behavior, maybe go out on track and drive

I've literally made a s14 tune this morning where changes in suspension had no change on PP score but the car handled better

 

[mynameis66]

No pics anyway.

 

[Daniel55]

well pictures aren't going to show the change in a car's behavior, maybe go out on track and drive

So, instead of seeing what I'm doing to the car, now after every change i should go out with the car to see what's changed? This is extremely bad and it is an even bigger exploit than the broken PP system that was before.

If you are in a lobby now, a player can have a faster car than yours and you don't even know it because the PP is the same.

 

[RacinLei]

@Daniel55

This is te way it should be. Tune te car to youre needs and not with increesing points.
Sf19 for instance. It was possible to tune the car over 1000pp and the result was the car drove like a bag of nutsn bolts.

 

[AlexWilmot]

So, instead of seeing what I'm doing to the car, now after every change i should go out with the car to see what's changed?

Yes just like how every person goes out, does a lap, see how the car reacts and make the right changes to the car

If you are in a lobby now, a player can have a faster car than yours and you don't even know it because the PP is the same.

Well Yes you could now have 2 cars with the same modifications, power and weight etc. but one will be faster than the other due to a superior suspension and differential tune,

Personally I don't like it for the reason that creating a tune takes longer for me as I need to do the above instead of using the PP calculation to see if a change is heading in the right or wrong direction,

But I also like it as I see some horrendous tunes online so I know I'll have an advantage over some people I race against.
(I still believe suspension changes will change the "performance" of a car and thus should show in the PP score though)

 

[Daniel55]

No pics anyway.

Sorry, i uploaded them, but forgot to insert them

 

[Larzi-]

So after all, it was the size of the pp that mattered.

 

[sh33p]

A step in the right direction by my standards.

Is also like to see tyre choice deleted from affecting pp ratings, as it was in gt5/gt6.

 

[Daniel55]

Yes just like how every person goes out, does a lap, see how the car reacts and make the right changes to the car

This is not good. The effects should be noted in the car performance tab

Well Yes you could now have 2 cars with the same modifications, power and weight etc. but one will be faster than the other due to a superior suspension and differential tune,

Personally I don't like it for the reason that creating a tune takes longer for me as I need to do the above instead of using the PP calculation to see if a change is heading in the right or wrong direction,

But I also like it as I see some horrendous tunes online so I know I'll have an advantage over some people I race against.
(I still believe suspension changes will change the "performance" of a car and thus should show in the PP score though)

So just because PD can't implement a good PP formula, it's better to hide the effects and just have a longer time for tuning the car because we can't see now what's changed?

And as I said, if the settings indeed affect the car, this is a bigger exploit than the "broken" PP system that was before because some cars will be faster than others while the PP is the same.

 

[GTboyz]

Atleast we won't see monster truck tunes anymore. It is a good change.

Oh yeah, that is a good change.