Pre-release GT5:Prologue Thread Firmware 2.17 mandatory for GT5:P? (and Pictures)

  • Thread starter amar212
  • 3,239 comments
  • 385,232 views
normally i just read these forums and don't respond but....... after reading max dc's comments about the physics of GT5P using a controller???? i just had to comment! I think it's great that you were able to try the game and yes everyone is entitled to their opinion..... but (OMHO) summing up the physics of a racing game using a handheld controller and not the steering wheel is just silly! You cannot accurately determine how good the feeling of understeer vs oversteer and correction/over correction is. So until someone actually comments on the new physics using a steering wheel we will never know until the game is released!
 
Paulie Walnuts
I don't understand how "driver injury" (if it includes no visual gore) would relate to ESRB or other ratings. Ratings are more about violence and general themes of the game. Especially if the game promotes safe driving by hard consequences, why would that be negative point regarding the rating? And does someone actually want visual gore in a driving game? I'd revaluate the priorities one expects from a driving game. :) Putting some kind of health bar to a driving game would kind of lame. I'm all for realism but this is one of those things that cannot be really "simulated".

By the way, Grand Prix Legends has driver injury, if you manage to roll the car over (you know, 60's formulas didn't have roof) the screen just goes black and game over. And what's the rating? +4. In Richard Burns Rally you can crash into track marshalls and spectators. No gore and it has +3 rating.

And about damage to rollcages... the Viper Racing which I've mentioned previously, had dynamic deformation (I mean really dynamic, not just parts ripping off). Didn't find a video from youtube but you could really deform the car into something that remembles more a ball made of steel than a car.
Click to expand...



You're misunderstanding. I'm not the one who is complaining about how GT5 isn't ultra realistic. I'm just trying to explain that in order for GT5 to be ultra realistic, they would have to implement all forms of realism into the game. In order for them to do total damage to a car including damages to the passenger compartment, they would have to implement driver injuries into the game. Sure, they sould just black out the screen when a car slams into a wall at high speeds without having to show any "gore" due to driver injuries but then someone would complain about how it wouldn't be "realistic". I'm all for a realistic driving simulator but I also understand that there are limitations to what a developer can do in any types of games in order to keep an E rating.

If a game like Gears of War can show what happens to you when you get shot with a 50 caliber rifle (body parts flying off) then it's very possible for PD to simulate what happens to a driver of a car that just slammed into a wall at 150mph. That would make it extremely realistic but then it would not have the E rating that it has. If GT5 has the damage modeling equivalent to that of DiRT, I'd be a happy camper. Doesn't have to show what happens in the game like it would exactly happen in real life. In this day and age, there has to be damage in a racing simulator (mechanical and cosmetic) in order for it to be considered a simulator. If not then it's no different than any other Arcade racer where you can make a mistake (we're humans, we all make mistakes) and keep on racing without any consequences.

I, however, am very picky when it comes to other aspects of a racing game that would add realism. Tire tracks, realistic smoke/dust, realistic driving physics between FWD/AWD/RWD cars and also realistic lighting and reflections. When I'm using the cockpit view and I'm drafting a car infront of me, I want to see the reflection of my car on his/her rear bumper. When I'm racing at night, I want my lights to shine realistically. If a car goes infront of me, I want to see the shadow that my headlights would cast with that car infront of me. If someone makes a mistake and slams into the tire barrier, I want realistic reactions from those barriers.

I also want my V8/V10/V12 to sound like it would or close to the way it would sound in real life. I, personally, wouldn't enjoy driving around in a highly modified Viper SRT-10 or an Enzo Ferrari much if they both sound like a vacuum cleaner. When a car is turbocharged or supercharged, I want to hear that aftemarket turbo spooling or the roots type supercharger whining. If I'm driving a car with a race engine in it, I want to hear all the backfires, pops, cracks and grunt of the race engine. This is what I want as far as realism goes. I do not care for damages to the passenger compartment because realistically, in any types of fender bender, it's rare to have any damage to the passenger compartment unless you're in a highspeed crash where the frame is buckled due to the crash.
 
Little_Donkey
About the sounds, well they kinda suck in the gt series.
If simbin can do it right with gtr then polyphony could do even better.
So i really hope they fix the engine sounds.

here some examples of engine sounds in GTR2
C5r
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-O6iQybb_Y
Lambo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYT-XioTeA
ferrari 550
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0R9Y3jNiE
mcLaren
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdjgegqMHR4
Click to expand...


I can't recall who said in this thread i think, that there's no way to tell if the sounds in "X" game are good or not from a youtube video.
I knew it was BS then, but i guess this pretty much shuts some one like him up for good.

Not only are the engine sounds a lot better than in most games in GTR, but notice the diferential, it sounds SO much like a real car here compared to what it sounds in the GT series.

Hope is the last thing to lose, but from what history tells us, GT is far more concerned with besting themselves at what they do best, and they've yet to adress what they suck at seriously.

On the suzuka video that used to be available the sounds were no better than in GT4.
I've yet to find a TGS 2007 video where the volume is loud enough to make judgement.
 
Little_Donkey
About the sounds, well they kinda suck in the gt series.
If simbin can do it right with gtr then polyphony could do even better.
So i really hope they fix the engine sounds.

here some examples of engine sounds in GTR2
C5r
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-O6iQybb_Y
Lambo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYT-XioTeA
ferrari 550
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0R9Y3jNiE
mcLaren
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdjgegqMHR4
Click to expand...

The cool thing is that the McLaren is a mod. If amateurs can make sounds like that, PD certainly could!
 
I remember hearing an interview of someone at PD saying they dont look at other games (i think when asked if htey have played Forza 2). I think its about time they did. Either that or fire the damn in game audio guy! The menu sound guy is good... perhaps promote him! :P

They claim to be car fanatics but i don't know a single one that puts sound on such a low level. Perhaps its that they are from rice burner land so 4 cylinder cake mixers is all they are used to? hehe Sorry. Coudlnt resist :P
 
HoffY
They claim to be car fanatics but i don't know a single one that puts sound on such a low level. Perhaps its that they are from rice burner land so 4 cylinder cake mixers is all they are used to? hehe Sorry. Coudlnt resist :P
Click to expand...

Well Hoffy, joking or couldn't resisiting or not, that one could be called "prejudice", it could also pass under the "intentional stereotyping of other races", while some sensitive members could even call it "racism".. I don't know, maybe somebody else decide.. Poll, anyone?
 
amar212
Well Hoffy, joking or couldn't resisiting or not, that one could be called "prejudice", it could also pass under the "intentional stereotyping of other races", while some sensitive members could even call it "racism".. I don't know, maybe somebody else decide.. Poll, anyone?
Click to expand...

Eh, i wouldn't go as far as stereotyping, if anything he stereotypes himself a little bit, making it seem like he's a fan of big muscle cars that can't worth a damn :P.
There's a lot of four bangers that sound awsome out there... just not in the GT series.
 
DarthTurismo
So until someone actually comments on the new physics using a steering wheel we will never know until the game is released!
Click to expand...
Heck, even just a rumble controller would make a difference. Out of laziness I tried playing GTHD without using my DFP and I had no feel for my car with the SixAxis. No feedback works finer for an arcade style racer where the intricacies don't matter but I had no sense of when my back end was about to go out or when I dropped a tire until it was too late.

I doubt any decent judgments can be made without a minimum of rumble and then still the best would be done using a wheel.
 
DarthTurismo
normally i just read these forums and don't respond but....... after reading max dc's comments about the physics of GT5P using a controller???? i just had to comment! I think it's great that you were able to try the game and yes everyone is entitled to their opinion..... but (OMHO) summing up the physics of a racing game using a handheld controller and not the steering wheel is just silly! You cannot accurately determine how good the feeling of understeer vs oversteer and correction/over correction is. So until someone actually comments on the new physics using a steering wheel we will never know until the game is released!
Click to expand...
Puh'lease, don't give us that rubbish. Of course you can get a feel for how the cars handle using the normal pad. After all, the game has been designed with the pad as the primary control method in mind. If you turn the wheels with the thumbstick and you hear the tyres screech a bit and the car fails to turn the corner as you wanted, that's understeer…not rocket science.

Yes, a wheel will be a bit better (read more fun), but a pad is still adequate.
 
I agree that even with the controller you should still be able to fairly judge the "handling" at least when comparing other driving games also using a controller and based on your own personal preference... apples to apples right.

That said, I also wouldn't jump to any conclusions or start lighting the torches based on someone posting their own personal opinion, for which could be influenced by any number of different things... and this is even if you choose to believe what they say is true. After all, there is no shortage of false information that get's posted on the internet, and unfortunately, this forum like other's isn't void of this problem.

I recall many people and web sites making factual claims that GT5:P was not going to be available in the US, and getting quite upset over it, despite the actual fact that it simply had not yet been announced. Neither Sony nor PD ever said it wasn’t going to be available and then decided to change their mind, but people are going to read into things the way they want to, and unfortunately will disguise their personal opinion as being some kind of fact.

There are a lot of people and a lot of sites that are going to be posting a lot of personal opinions, claims, and misleading info either to draw attention to themselves or their sites. If you don't want to stress out, and don't want to subject yourself to a lot of opinions disguised as facts, that may very well mislead you, I might suggest taking what your read with a huge grain of salt, or even wait until the game is out and you've had a chance to try it out yourself before jumping to any conclusions based on some anecdotal posts you read on the internet.
 
Nomino
Puh'lease, don't give us that rubbish. Of course you can get a feel for how the cars handle using the normal pad. After all, the game has been designed with the pad as the primary control method in mind. If you turn the wheels with the thumbstick and you hear the tyres screech a bit and the car fails to turn the corner as you wanted, that's understeer…not rocket science.

Yes, a wheel will be a bit better (read more fun), but a pad is still adequate.
Click to expand...


Yeah, there's no denying that a wheel offers an overall better experience, but to say that you can't tell if the physics are good or not by using a D pad is wrong.
Anyone who owned F355 challenge for the Dreamcast can agree with this. Sure it's not the same experience, but the physics were exactly the same.
The realisim, and hard to drive factor was all there.
 
Little_Donkey
About the sounds, well they kinda suck in the gt series.
If simbin can do it right with gtr then polyphony could do even better.
So i really hope they fix the engine sounds.

here some examples of engine sounds in GTR2
C5r
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-O6iQybb_Y
Lambo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4LYT-XioTeA
ferrari 550
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_b0R9Y3jNiE
mcLaren
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZdjgegqMHR4
Click to expand...
As much fun as that game is, not exactly. For instance, Compare the GTR Corvette video:

To the 2004 C5R vid:

Now look at the sounds on the R-GT. First, the GTR vid:

Now the real thing:



Yes, GT sounds aren't exactly the best sounds, but I say the same for GTR either.
 
Sounds aside, i'd also say that RACECAR's vids highlight the trouble with most 'cockpit views' (including GT5:P) being a somewhat unrealistic rendition of what you actually do see when sat in a car.
 
RACECAR
As much fun as that game is, not exactly. For instance, Compare the GTR Corvette video:

To the 2004 C5R vid:

Now look at the sounds on the R-GT. First, the GTR vid:

Now the real thing:



Yes, GT sounds aren't exactly the best sounds, but I say the same for GTR either.
Click to expand...



I don't know man... it sounds VERY close to the real thing.
Far better than in any GT i'll tell you that much.

Also, notice the diferential sounds on the real life cars, compare how those sound in GT... they are horribly done. GTR gets those VERY close to the real thing.
 
Even through the sound does sound great, it is useless. It just uses samples, so it doesnt really tell anything about the engine.

I much rather have something that sounds less good, but more detailed, then just a sound engine which uses samples.

You may or may not like the LFS sound engine, but that engine IS detailed, so I prefer that any day over samples.
 
Kamus
I don't know man... it sounds VERY close to the real thing.
Click to expand...
It may just be me, but it depends really. The corvette I agree that it does sound somewhat close and far off better then the air compressor on GT4(And thats just one of them), but the Lamborghini I really don't hear that its that close and it sounds like the Ferrari 550 too, which in real life the sounds of their V12 engines are distinguishable, but again thats me.


Kamus
Also, notice the diferential sounds on the real life cars, compare how those sound in GT... they are horribly done. GTR gets those VERY close to the real thing.
Click to expand...
I agree alot on that. The Corvette, BMW M3 GTR, and The Mercedes CLK GTR, are a huge example of this, along with most of the V12 engined Race cars(most notably, the Jaguars).
 
TheCracker
Sounds aside, i'd also say that RACECAR's vids highlight the trouble with most 'cockpit views' (including GT5:P) being a somewhat unrealistic rendition of what you actually do see when sat in a car.
Click to expand...
When I'm sat in my car I see everything, I generally focus on the road, but I still see the wheel and the dash and the mirrors. Thoes cameras arn't mounted in the drivers visor, they're mounted on the dash, behind the wheel, a lot further forwards than a driver sits. I agree that views like GTR's give you a letterbox perspective, but that's because a TV work like out eyes do, not because the position of the camera is wrong.
 
About sounds:

Generally, all V12s (and other engines of the same configuration) have a similar frequency. The differences come into play with pitch and loudness. For example, a Miura's V12 sounds very similar to the Ferrari F50's V12 in frequency (same sound characteristics), but the pitch is completely different. Most engines of the same type are indistinguishable from each other except to the sound gurus.

If PD did the sounds right in a GT game, all V6s, V8s V12s what have you, would all have their own characteristic sounds, and that would be "boring" in a game with 700+ cars. So PD (or rather, their sound editors) artificially spices it up, by giving different cars unique sounds that are synthesized.

For example, the Lancia Stratos's Ferrari V6 in the game has a resemblance to the real thing, but it has a much deeper voice in the game. The real thing is an evil, raspy banshee from hell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbBbcvXO6VM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYvpd-EMhig&mode=related&search=

GT4's version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abxpgiHw9ek

It's just too tame in GT4.
 
Don't expect improved engine sounds until PD decideds to re-record all the engine sounds again. KY has already admitted that they are reusing all the engine sounds from previous GT games for GT5. Sucks I know, but they are obviously very busy working on other aspects of the game. Hopefully they can release a patch later on or something to improve the engine sounds
 
Grand Prix
About sounds:

Generally, all V12s (and other engines of the same configuration) have a similar frequency. The differences come into play with pitch and loudness. For example, a Miura's V12 sounds very similar to the Ferrari F50's V12 in frequency (same sound characteristics), but the pitch is completely different. Most engines of the same type are indistinguishable from each other except to the sound gurus.

If PD did the sounds right in a GT game, all V6s, V8s V12s what have you, would all have their own characteristic sounds, and that would be "boring" in a game with 700+ cars. So PD (or rather, their sound editors) artificially spices it up, by giving different cars unique sounds that are synthesized.

For example, the Lancia Stratos's Ferrari V6 in the game has a resemblance to the real thing, but it has a much deeper voice in the game. The real thing is an evil, raspy banshee from hell:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbBbcvXO6VM&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EYvpd-EMhig&mode=related&search=

GT4's version:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abxpgiHw9ek

It's just too tame in GT4.
Click to expand...

I completely agree with you on this. I said something similar in another thread awhile back. With the Ferrari 599 in GTHD, i did a sound test of that car in game, and found a youtube video of the same car. The pitches and sounds were SIMILAR, but similar to this situation, the game version of the 599 lacked the raw sounding power of the ferrari in the youtube video i found. Same concept. PD's sounds are alright, they just need that extra "raw engine sound", kind of like what has been found here in GTR, or even some of the cars in Forza 2 for that matter.
 
Earth
Don't expect improved engine sounds until PD decideds to re-record all the engine sounds again. KY has already admitted that they are reusing all the engine sounds from previous GT games for GT5. Sucks I know, but they are obviously very busy working on other aspects of the game. Hopefully they can release a patch later on or something to improve the engine sounds
Click to expand...


Care to share your source for this?
 
Earth
Don't expect improved engine sounds until PD decideds to re-record all the engine sounds again. KY has already admitted that they are reusing all the engine sounds from previous GT games for GT5.
Click to expand...

Are you referencing this article?

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/807/807834p1.html

"Engine sounds are different when driving from the in-the-car perspective. Extra credit work from Polyphony's hard-working development staff? Actually, Yamauchi admitted that the team had recorded these sounds before."

He doesn't mention they were the same sounds as previous GT games. Even if they are, the sounds in the PS2 games may have been downsampled a bit.
 
kdraper
Are you referencing this article?

http://ps3.ign.com/articles/807/807834p1.html

"Engine sounds are different when driving from the in-the-car perspective. Extra credit work from Polyphony's hard-working development staff? Actually, Yamauchi admitted that the team had recorded these sounds before."

He doesn't mention they were the same sounds as previous GT games. Even if they are, the sounds in the PS2 games may have been downsampled a bit.
Click to expand...

Yes, that is the source, and in my opinion I believe PD has not recorded new sounds for the cars since GT3. Maybe they recorded something new for the Ferraris but everything else is the same. That's why alot of cars, especially the rare race cars, sound VERY similiar

And lets face it, who else has to record sound for 700+ cars? That's alot of work. Let's give them some time
 
All they have to do is record every manufacturer's engines on a dyno. They don't have to record every car that's going to be in the game, just do one recording session of a Ford V8, Ferrari V8, Porsche Flat 6, etc. In theory the Ford V8 in the Shelby Cobra should sound similar to the GT40's Ford V8, but they sound completely different in the game for some reason. This issue can be easily fixed! If they use this method they only have to do 180 cars, maybe 120, and they'll sound genuine at least. PD are making it too hard on themselves.
 
I don't think the samples are the problem.. it's the way they're handled by the sound engine. They could get much better results with their existing samples than we've seen before.
 
Earth
Yes, that is the source, and in my opinion I believe PD has not recorded new sounds for the cars since GT3. Maybe they recorded something new for the Ferraris but everything else is the same. That's why alot of cars, especially the rare race cars, sound VERY similiar

And lets face it, who else has to record sound for 700+ cars? That's alot of work. Let's give them some time
Click to expand...




They have 700+ cars in the game but a lot of the cars are of the same model, just different trims. If someone has a lot of time on their hands, you should go through GT4's car list and count only the different models of cars as ONE. Meaning, 20 different models of Skylines with RB26s in them would not be counted as 20 but only 1. After they record the initial sounds from different angles, then they can digially enhance, change the pitch or tone or whatever to make them sound slightly different due to different modifications or exhausts and stuff like that.
 

Similar threads

Paiky
Gran Turismo 4 Prologue - Special builds
Replies
6
Views
4K
GETEDA
GETEDA
PVL_93_RU
Is the Gran Turismo TV content from GT5P just gone forever?
Replies
1
Views
5K
Nenkai
N
Famine
Proposal for Original Gran Turismo Revealed in Kazunori Yamauchi Interview
2
Replies
39
Views
7K
Mr_D
Mr_D
Famine
Gran Turismo 7 Update 1.49: Eiger Nordwand, Six New Cars, Physics Changes, & More
53 54 55
Replies
2K
Views
239K
derekh
D
Famine
Gran Turismo Crosses Over to Astro’s Playroom With New Special Bot Challenge
Replies
19
Views
4K
Aphelion
Aphelion

Latest Posts

Back