Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread - Out August 28th, 2020 on XB1/PS4/PC

[killerjimbag]

Go on then, I will bite, which title is it you are claiming barely has a physics model?

I would have to say Mario Kart?Well Scaff perhaps his Police force doesn't have working ABS. Funny how all these vehicles tested have to come to a complete full force ABS stop under the braking category.
https://www.blueline.ca/2019-marks-...esting-years-for-police-cars-in-decades-6207/

 

[MarcoM]

1\ I'm not sure. I'll have to check. There are a couple of 911 models.
2\ Yes it is, in some views more than others.
3\ Dumbed down has been used but I'd say PC3 has been smoothed to attract a slightly different audience.
4\ Try dropping the brake sensitivity way down, zero even. You get less initial braking force that way for a slightly more realistic approach.

The kerb rumble is controlled by the effects* slider. I'm not sure if that also lowers the road rumble. Drop that and raise the engine one. The other one controls the crowd noise, wind, birds(!) Etc.

*I think it's called that.

I find it varies considerably depending on what's on offer. Different car and track combinations attract more players than others. And the 3 lap Pace Setter is often not so popular because maintaining a fast pace over a longer period is more difficult than a 1 lap shoot out.


Yeah platinum! Well I was when I left it. Might have dropped down a bit since then. Really liked that combination.

Thanks for the Effects slider tip. I had to increase it to get some motor rumble. I have it at 50 now.

 

[killerjimbag]

You just told me to look at the rivals leaderboard... I'm pretty sure you can view it on the project cars website...

So no need for your rig to be portable..

And again what's your experience in the real world with counterparts in the game? Seem to constantly be avoiding that point

He won't answer his "real world experience". Evidently his vehicle has no ABS and he can handle it in the rain. For some reason, mall cop comes to mind. Just my thoughts.

 

[Konan]

He won't answer his "real world experience". Evidently his vehicle has no ABS and he can handle it in the rain. For some reason, mall cop comes to mind. Just my thoughts.

Keyboard warrior comes to mine...
Proving my point: trying to start an argument with no reason. Everyone stopped, yet you choose to call out both him and me to try and light the fire back up.

 

[GTsimms]

He won't answer his "real world experience". Evidently his vehicle has no ABS and he can handle it in the rain. For some reason, mall cop comes to mind. Just my thoughts.

So, you're telling me that vehicles were impossible to control before ABS and TCS?

But, to give you an answer. It was a known issue discovered in the fleet from vehicles originating out of Missouri.

 

[killerjimbag]

So, you're telling me that vehicles were impossible to control before ABS and TCS?

But, to give you an answer. It was a known issue discovered in the fleet from vehicles originating out of Missouri.

Hey smart guy. Look at my profile pick. Does that look like it has ABS? It would also blow the doors off of your non ABS "cop car" . A fleet of cars out of Missouri that for some miraculous reason were sold to just your police department and not recalled? Yeah Ford,GM and Dodge will let cops drive around in defective vehicles. Give your head a shake. How for 1 minute could you even type that nonsense.

 

[GTsimms]

Hey smart guy. Look at my profile pick. Does that look like it has ABS? It would also blow the doors off of your non ABS "cop car" . A fleet of cars out if Missouri. Funny I guess the rest of the fleets not from Missouri were not affected? Do you and Konan text each other before you reply?

Well obviously obviously there needs to be no further discussion with you. Since, you want to be a smart 🤬 about it.

 

[killerjimbag]

Well obviously obviously there needs to be no further discussion with you. Since, you want to be a smart 🤬 about it.

Right and clearly your imagination is getting the best of you. I've raced go karts as a kid. Raced dirt bikes,raced snowmobiles,race drag strips to this day. I've owned muscle cars that would snap your head back and make you 🤬 your pants. Oh yeah I still have that 65 Impala and a 71 Chevelle. They all didn't have ABS or TC. Don't try to tell me a Police force would knowingly drive an ABS equipped vehicle that was defective and not working properly.

 

[ELmarcotuff]

Fart noises

 

[GTsimms]

Right and clearly your imagination is getting the best of you. I've raced go karts as a kid. Raced dirt bikes,raced snowmobiles,race drag strips to this day. I've owned muscle cars that would snap your head back and make you 🤬 your pants. Oh yeah I still have that 65 Impala and a 71 Chevelle. They all didn't have ABS or TC. Don't try to tell me a Police force would knowingly drive an ABS equipped vehicle that was defective and not working properly.

Yawn, what's funny about it. There are other people that see this discussion and they are not responding in this forum. They are in other discussion platforms. They know, that I am not lying. They actually see this discussion as showing the true nature of somethings here.

 

[Scaff]

Yawn, what's funny about it. There are other people that see this discussion and they are not responding in this forum. They are in other discussion platforms. They know, that I am not lying. They actually see this discussion as showing the true nature of somethings here.

How do we know you are being honest?

In one hand we have a long term member that has posted a massive amount of evidence of his vehicles, builds and track time; and on the other hand we have a member that has brought nothing similar to the table (in case of doubt - that would be you).

I’ve worked in the industry for over 25 years and have never come across an OEM stupid enough to knowingly let a police force drive around in defective vehicles. That’s an immediate recall situation, and as such would be subject to an NHTSA notice. I also assume that your Police Department has logged a complaint about this with the NHTSA, and as they are publicly visible as well you should be able to provide that as an alternative.

If neither of these are the case it means your Police Department is knowingly putting its officers and the public at risk and opening itself up to law suits of a quite frankly staggering level!

As such it should be simple for you to link to the one in question, or you could let us know the model and year of vehicle and we can soon find it ourselves.

 

[PJTierney]

What does this have to do with Project CARS 3 again?

 

[IfAndOr]

What does this have to do with Project CARS 3 again?

Checks thread title. "Project CARS 3: General Discussion Thread". Looks through this page. Checks thread title again!


I've got a bicycle.

 

[killerjimbag]

How do we know you are being honest?

In one hand we have a long term member that has posted a massive amount of evidence of his vehicles, builds and track time; and on the other hand we have a member that has brought nothing similar to the table (in case of doubt - that would be you).

I’ve worked in the industry for over 25 years and have never come across an OEM stupid enough to knowingly let a police force drive around in defective vehicles. That’s an immediate recall situation, and as such would be subject to an NHTSA notice. I also assume that your Police Department has logged a complaint about this with the NHTSA, and as they are publicly visible as well you should be able to provide that as an alternative.

If neither of these are the case it means your Police Department is knowingly putting its officers and the public at risk and opening itself up to law suits of a quite frankly staggering level!

As such it should be simple for you to link to the one in question, or you could let us know the model and year of vehicle and we can soon find it ourselves.

Scaff I'll get my wife to look up police vehicle recalls at work on Monday. She's a quality controll engineer at Toyota. I just asked her. I'll have an answer by Monday night. Even she said there is no possible way those vehicles would be on the road with defective ABS modules.

 

[GTsimms]

How do we know you are being honest?

In one hand we have a long term member that has posted a massive amount of evidence of his vehicles, builds and track time; and on the other hand we have a member that has brought nothing similar to the table (in case of doubt - that would be you).

I’ve worked in the industry for over 25 years and have never come across an OEM stupid enough to knowingly let a police force drive around in defective vehicles. That’s an immediate recall situation, and as such would be subject to an NHTSA notice. I also assume that your Police Department has logged a complaint about this with the NHTSA, and as they are publicly visible as well you should be able to provide that as an alternative.

If neither of these are the case it means your Police Department is knowingly putting its officers and the public at risk and opening itself up to law suits of a quite frankly staggering level!

As such it should be simple for you to link to the one in question, or you could let us know the model and year of vehicle and we can soon find it ourselves.

So, you're being completely honest about Project CARS 3? That would be an "Absolute No." You don't have very many hours in the game and the last time you played was over two months ago. Things do change in two months.

On Steam, PC3 keep getting Workshop updates.

I gave been gaming long enough that most games usually get better with updates.

Actually, that happened with the latest Fanatec wheel base drivers. The improvement was definitely a noticeable change in the FFB.

 

[MarcoM]

Just had some fun with the weekly rival with single seater at Donington. You can switch the lights on and of for the dashboard of that car. Did not know such cars had dashboard gauge ligths.

On the topic of the rumble effects, I set the Effects option to 100. Now it's good. I turned it down to 20 initially to remove the fierce rumble on the high curbs. But then I had to up the amp of the Buttkicker to a level that when the high curbs kicked in they were very fierce and the red light of the amp turned bright red.

With effects set to 100, it is more balanced. Still, the high curbs shake may rig like mad. Perhaps the reason why they are there in real life.

 

[Famine]

What does this have to do with Project CARS 3 again?

Well, at the moment it seems to be establishment of credentials for discussing PC3's tyre model. We seem to have one user who is an expert in street tyres because he claims to drive police cars (and claims they're supplied in a defective state) in the wet sometimes, and another who has a verified quarter of a century of experience in vehicle dynamics in the motor industry.

Unfortunately the former user, who seems incredibly unhappy with the concept that people are allowed to express negative opinions as well as positive opinions in this thread and claims that any expression of a negative opinion is an attempt to "shut him down", has decided to ignore a direct instruction from a member of staff (me) for a second time, in a post now removed from view (but still available to staff), and will now not be able to post again in this thread for a week.

I always find it fascinating when people who moderate other sites behave in a manner that makes things harder for moderators on this one, and in this case with the user claiming to be a police officer, I'm even more enthralled. I wonder how he'd treat someone who ignored his instructions twice in his day job?

 

[PJTierney]

That's a good breakdown @Famine

Looking back I did see how this all started, but eventually I think the game got shoved to the side and it became an argument between two immovable forces


Looping back to the game itself though, one thing I've noticed and I think it's tyre related, is that after 2-3 laps in Practice the car suddenly "clicks" and can go multiple seconds faster.

I know some thing are no longer simulated (thanks to the removal of tyre wear), but I do wonder if tyre heat is still being simulated, and if so, then this sensation of going faster is down to the tyres essentially warming up?

I know it's not necessarily my driving as I'm generally hitting near enough the same braking and turning points in those initial laps, though the gains after the tyres "click" may also come from me having the confidence to push harder.

 

[Konan]

That's a good breakdown @Famine

Looking back I did see how this all started, but eventually I think the game got shoved to the side and it became an argument between two immovable forces


Looping back to the game itself though, one thing I've noticed and I think it's tyre related, is that after 2-3 laps in Practice the car suddenly "clicks" and can go multiple seconds faster.

I know some thing are no longer simulated (thanks to the removal of tyre wear), but I do wonder if tyre heat is still being simulated, and if so, then this sensation of going faster is down to the tyres essentially warming up?

I know it's not necessarily my driving as I'm generally hitting near enough the same braking and turning points in those initial laps, though the gains after the tyres "click" may also come from me having the confidence to push harder.

There is actually some Tyre wear/heat.
If you abuse them too much you will notice a difference.

 

[IfAndOr]

Possibly @PJTierney it's the track also getting more grippy simulating rubber being laid down. Because of PC3's flashy new look people tend to forget all the simulation that Livetrack brings with its various season, time of day and changing track surface shenanigans. You don't get that in "arcade" games.

Cars will also handle better on a summer's day than they do on a winters night. So yes I believe there is also some tyre temperature modelling going on.

 

[Scaff]

So, you're being completely honest about Project CARS 3? That would be an "Absolute No." You don't have very many hours in the game and the last time you played was over two months ago. Things do change in two months.

The last update on PS4 was back in December (and I would not put too much trust in PSN's ability to give you game stats accurately, every time I fire up PSVR it claims its the very first time I've played it), of which the only improvement to the physics listed was:

• TrueForce initial implementation. Implementation uses haptic thread to provide high-frequency procedural waves for the rumble effects
• Modulated TruForce slip rumble based on surface wetness
• Fine tuned slide threshold for TrueForce
• Fixed TrueForce curb rumble at speed
• Fixed rolling start discrepancy when TC is enabled"

Prior to that update 2 (Nov) lists nothing for physics, and the following for wheels:

• Default wheel deadzones across all platforms now matched.
• Steering deadzone removed from consoles to reduce vagueness around centre

Ditto with update 1(Sept):

• Logitech wheels issues on PS4 fixed
• Support added for Thrustmaster T-GT

Not that really makes a massive amount of difference given that you have been making the same claims with regard to the accuracy of the FFB since day 1.

It does however raise the question of exactly how much time one does need to spend with a title to be qualified to talk about it? What number in hours do you put it at, 10, 25, 100, 200+?

On Steam, PC3 keep getting Workshop updates.

And on console it doesn't, mainly because the cost and certification process between PC and Consoles is quite different. Three updates since launch, that's what consoles have had.

I gave been gaming long enough that most games usually get better with updates.

Indeed they generally do (not always, I've known quite a few that have also utterly broken titles), but they don't affect everything, and once again it's really a bit of a moot point, as this is a claim you have made since day one.

Actually, that happened with the latest Fanatec wheel base drivers. The improvement was definitely a noticeable change in the FFB.

And?

Are you saying that this accuracy in the FFB requires a specific wheel to be felt?

I have to also say that your behaviour and attitude towards myself and others is bordering on the weirdly obsessive, given that you have clearly been doing a bit of stalking on PSN to try and discredit me, and as such I assume this is in regard to me as well...

Well, it's really funny looking at some of the numbers of those trashing PC3 on here in this thread. By looking at the numbers 95-99% of their time is spent in another game which barely has a physics model. That's some funny 🤬.

...which as well as highlighting some rather poor arithmetic is also to be blunt utterly inaccurate. Take a look at the review I did for PC3, I rated it on par with the likes of Wreckfest, Dirt Rally 2.0 and Art of Rally, three titles I hold in great regard, that would hardly be 'trashing' a title, in fact, given the overall reviews of PC3, mine counts as one of the much more positive ones around.

No, what this boils down to it seems is that you simply can't abide people who disagree with you, to the point that anyone who does so is accused of creating negativity, they get stalked and you attempt to discredit them, you attempt to shut their voices down and object when the staff don't oblige (as its not the official forum and we do not and never will work like that), you even go to the lengths of making a claim, that if it's true, actually leaves you open to civil lawsuits (knowingly driving a defective vehicle in the course of your job will do that).

I do not hate, trash or in any other way dislike PC3, I simply do not believe that SMS gave it a fair chance with the way they marketed it, and I don't believe that its the physics and FFB highpoint that you do.

That's it, and it in no way warrants the attitude and approach you have used in this thread, both against myself and others that hold similar views.

 

[FrankieStail]

I remember the devs said that the flash heating of outer layer of tyre was still being simulated, but not core temperature as was the case in pc2.

Edit

Reply to @IfAndOr post

 

[MarcoM]

I'd like to have the option to immediately watch te replay after a race. Now you have to save them and watch them in another menu.

Saving them is pretty cool feature though.

 

[Scaff]

I'd like to have the option to immediately watch te replay after a race. Now you have to save them and watch them in another menu.

Saving them is pretty cool feature though.

I agree, as I've been caught out once by not having enough space to save the replay, and as a result not being able to watch it!

 

[cjr3559]

That's a good breakdown @Famine

Looking back I did see how this all started, but eventually I think the game got shoved to the side and it became an argument between two immovable forces


Looping back to the game itself though, one thing I've noticed and I think it's tyre related, is that after 2-3 laps in Practice the car suddenly "clicks" and can go multiple seconds faster.

I know some thing are no longer simulated (thanks to the removal of tyre wear), but I do wonder if tyre heat is still being simulated, and if so, then this sensation of going faster is down to the tyres essentially warming up?

I know it's not necessarily my driving as I'm generally hitting near enough the same braking and turning points in those initial laps, though the gains after the tyres "click" may also come from me having the confidence to push harder.

There is actually some Tyre wear/heat.
If you abuse them too much you will notice a difference.

Possibly @PJTierney it's the track also getting more grippy simulating rubber being laid down. Because of PC3's flashy new look people tend to forget all the simulation that Livetrack brings with its various season, time of day and changing track surface shenanigans. You don't get that in "arcade" games.

Cars will also handle better on a summer's day than they do on a winters night. So yes I believe there is also some tyre temperature modelling going on.

I posted weeks ago (twice) referring to tire behavior, nobody seemed to care. Good info nonetheless.

I’d call PC3 ‘sim-lite’. Any game with adjustable tire pressures and detailed tuning options leans towards ‘sim’ even with flashy menus and customizable drivers and cars. ‘Fast and Furious’ is arcade.

I’ve been using road cars almost exclusively with street and sport tires in PC3, and quite frankly long term tire wear makes little to no difference to me. For example, do I really need to pit after 30 minutes of gameplay when a set of Hankooks can last over 4 years IRL:



Now whether PC3 depicts short term tire heating and track temperature is debatable. To me that’s where what lies in the code is most important.

After doing many long 15-20 minute runs using the same car, under the same conditions on the same track, I’ve got the impression the tires do fade slightly and lose grip after a while. Maybe I’m crazy, maybe it’s some self medicating placebo, but I’ve read the developer’s blog about the tire model and is this what they’re describing? Or are they only talking about how tires heat up and flex under load?

 

[IfAndOr]

nobody seemed to care

I read them sir. In fact I think I replied to the later one.

I remember the devs said that the flash heating of outer layer of tyre was still being simulated, but not core temperature as was the case in pc2.

Yes I think this is the case. You still get heat build up but it dissipates quicker than it would in PC2. On really tight twisty tracks the tyres won't get to cool so much. They don't wear or fail now but they should still loose grip when stressed. While there's still a lot going on with them the tyres are probably the most sim-lite aspect, the rest of the vehicle dynamics are still quite complexly modeled.

 

[MarcoM]

I love the sound the windscreen wiper makes with a buttkicker or similar device. Very atmospheric.

I miss the infomation what transmission a car has. I want to use the proper transmission. In PC2 that information was available in the car details section.

PC3 does not seem to have such information. Or am I blinded by the interface?

 

[IfAndOr]

Or am I blinded by the interface?

No, it is more... streamlined. That's not to say "stuff" isn't going on in the background it's just that you're limited in what you can see or access. Detailed car information amongst it.

The thing I miss the most is the virtual mirror that was available in all views in PC2. Maybe it hit the FPS.

 

[MarcoM]

The Supra Crunch event in class D crashed the game. Restarting the ps4 and starting the event again fixed that.

I don't have enough credits to buy the 288 or the 959 for the last D events. Does re-doing races pay out again credits?

 

[IfAndOr]

Does re-doing races pay out again credits?

Yes it does. Running races in custom mode earns you credits also. I believe practicing does to. And Rivals can help. Plus online. Credits everywhere.

I think I've only just started class C but I've got 1.5 million credits (plus a few car purchases) from playing other modes. Also look for the reduced car of the day offer in the dealership, sometimes it can be something you might need.

You can also skip events and return to them later, if you want.

And game crashes - unfortunately that is not unheard of. A few more patches required!