Project CARS 4 "Will Be The Most Realistic Simulation Ever Made"

[ImaRobot]

you can just crawl back under the rock you came from under from,your posts are only getting attacking now,i am always prepared for conversation,but again you are personally attacking me.

Oh what a surprise. Someone that complained about getting personal, and being sensible is the complete opposite of what they are pretending. Hypocrite, or ironic - take your pick.

And also, point out exactly where I personally attacked you.

 

[Konan]

I don't own any moderators, and I don't care if they or anyone else has that opinion. It's their opinion to have and to express.

But you stated it was a "fact" that I said it, and I did not:

Thus this is a fact you have made up.

This was also your entry point to this conversation, and you claimed that I'd use an excuse to deny it. I pointed out there and then that I did not need an excuse to deny something I hadn't done, because I hadn't done it. Why we're still here five hours later escapes me.

grasping at straws now mate...

 

[05XR8]

Don't think you can fool me by helping you understand the joke. You sly dog.

Oh wait, what was that about "getting personal"? Where did all that "sensibility" go?

Educate? REED? You might want to learn to spell before insulting someone and their education.

Hold on... hold on. He may be on to something:

1a : any of various tall grasses with slender often prominently jointed stems that grow especially in wet areas. b : a stem of a reed. c : a person or thing too weak to rely on : one easily swayed or overcome.

Edit: and just then, the mention of "clutching at straws". I'm trying to decipher this. Give me a minute...

Okay, I've had a minute. Any updated news about this new game?

 

[Konan]

Oh what a surprise. Someone that complained about getting personal, and being sensible is the complete opposite of what they are pretending. Hypocrite, or ironic - take your pick.

And also, point out exactly where I personally attacked you.

well that's the difference between a forum that's been ran according the rules and this one....some people are allowed to say anything they want without any consequesens at all,while others get banned..

 

[ImaRobot]

well that's the difference between a forum that's been ran according the rules and this one....some people are allowed to say anything they want without any consequesens at all,while others get banned..

Way to dodge everything. Lines up with most your actions here.

Its laughably embarrassing at this point, and a bit sad. You can pretend all you want that you're sensible and objective, but you're obviously not. Either that or you're just oblivious to your own actions or what those words actually mean.

 

[Konan]

Way to dodge everything. Lines up with most your actions here.

Its laughably embarrassing at this point, and a bit sad. You can pretend all you want that you're sensible and objective, but you're obviously not. Either that or you're just oblivious to your own actions or what those words actually mean.

i'm not dodging anything,the only one who's dodging is your admin.

 

[Famine]

grasping at straws now mate...

This is "grasping at straws":

the fact that an admin from a forum Ian used to visit called his company liars...

This is a "fact" you have made up.

So your own moderator,and some members did not call SMS liars?

You shifted from accusing me of something I didn't do (and you know that you cannot point to), to saying other people did it as if that has any bearing on the initial accusation. How does it make any sense to defend "you said this" with "well some other people who aren't you said it"?

It doesn't, and this has been straight up mental from your first bizarre accusation where you apparently read two extra words that never appeared in a ten-word post.

i'm not dodging anything,the only one who's dodging is your admin.

I've literally dodged nothing. I've engaged with you despite the abuse and lies you've thrust in my direction and tried to help you understand a pretty simple joke, but you don't want to understand it. Your position makes no sense anyway - there's no gotcha here, because I could easily say the thing you said I did if I wanted, so there'd be absolutely no need for me to pretend I hadn't. I don't know what your need to pretend I did is, though I can guess.


If I, or any member of staff here, went to your community and acted there like you have here, we'd terminate them. That said, we picked them in the first place because we knew they wouldn't.

You might not be an official representative of SMS, but frankly enough people think that you are (despite the reality of it; ironic) that you may as well be - and the article on the PC3 blog doesn't help dispell that impression. Like it or not, you're representing SMS right now and it looks pretty embarrassing for them.


Edit: Yeah, I think it's probably for your own benefit that I stop you from replying further in this thread, though you won't thank me.

 

[gjozracer]

wow, this thread was really dying and becoming boring.....but thanks @Famine for reigniting the fire and so I have something to interesting to read....haha

This thread has become a bonfire again, and there is plenty of contributors to keep the flames going for awhile longer, lets hope....hehe

 

[AlexWilmot]

Now that their social media & community manager is moving onto other things(still waiting for that DM Ian) btw to those who’d read this and take offence to anything, I actually do wish the best for people to progress in all aspects of their life…

hopefully there’ll be less sass in their posts and replies, now to sort out that lead moderator so that the forum and discord can freely discuss things and recover from the ghost town it’s become.

Maybe codemasters could be a positive thing for this series by putting their resources forward.

would actually like a console title to excel in all sim/game aspects other than just slip angle, something to rival ACC and given additions to car/track selections and a career mode.

 

[killerjimbag]

i'm not dodging anything,the only one who's dodging is your admin.

In the great wisdom of the late Rowdy Roddy Piper.
Just when you think you have all the answers ! I change the question.

 

[McLaren]

Barged in here?
Don't make me laugh....
You can all spin around like you always do,fact still remains that your own admin screwed up,he can try and disguise it as a joke as much as he wants but those who are concerned certainly don't see it that way. And no matter how many of you are trying to disguise it,or (as usual) try to discredid me...that is still not going to change the fact that an admin from a forum Ian used to visit called his company liars...

Yes, that's why making a joke out of "what lies ahead" works. Because his company actually lies.


This is like a Scientologist unable to fathom a South Park joke about their religion believing an alien delivered spirits in 737s b/c they've fully bought into it. You're fully invested into SMS, so they clearly tell no lies, therefore Famine's joke becomes an insult.

 

[IfAndOr]

Because his company actually lies.

Near to Tower Bridge in London?

 

[Caf Pow]

Now that their social media & community manager is moving onto other things(still waiting for that DM Ian) btw to those who’d read this and take offence to anything, I actually do wish the best for people to progress in all aspects of their life…

hopefully there’ll be less sass in their posts and replies, now to sort out that lead moderator so that the forum and discord can freely discuss things and recover from the ghost town it’s become.

Maybe codemasters could be a positive thing for this series by putting their resources forward.

would actually like a console title to excel in all sim/game aspects other than just slip angle, something to rival ACC and given additions to car/track selections and a career mode.

Personal attacks are allowed here "sort out that lead moderator." What should it become please explain in details.

 

[AlexWilmot]

Personal attacks are allowed here "sort out that lead moderator." What should it become please explain in details.

Hi Rob

If you look at all posts here by Konan about anything related to Project Cars you should understand this, it’s been an embarrassing display of white knighting while maintaining an immense dictatorship across their channels such as the official forum and discord,

what should it become? A place open for discussion so that criticism can take place, but criticism can’t take place in the official channels, Criticism that is mild like asking for updates or why there online play is dead leads to snarky comments by people directly and indirectly representing SMS and then banning members for doing so, death threats and harassment sure ban people but this isn’t the majority of those being banned. Where’s the evidence? I can’t be arsed to get it as it happens soo much there and you can find it yourself by as I said following Konans comments here.

I and many others had sold their copies of this game based purely off the behaviour of said individuals and crowd firstly and secondly due to its under performance of a game compared to previous titles and others on the market, I rebought it on sale so technically I made a profit with the original copies sale.

I’m confused as to what personal attacks you’re referring to unless that’s the ones Konan said about other members on the forum unless your allegiance to the cause has blinded you on that

edit: what does your post have to do with the future of the project card series and PC4? I the posted quoted of mine has relevance to it but yours doesn’t, please stop detailing threads

2nd edit: it’s the internet if you’re going to be offended by everything, demand your point of view be accepted, you’re going to have a hard time, best is to allow other views and opinions regardless of whether you agree or disagree but the problem is the lead moderator, the SMS team and other loyal followers don’t seem to understand this point

 

[Matt Stephens]

Have to admit I was particularly disturbed by the way things were handled a few years ago on the official PCars forums, one of the main reasons I came here was to openly discuss issues with the games rather than through more official channels where it definitely felt if you had any criticisms of the games (whether constructive or not), then you’d be shot down straight away or banned.

I’m not blaming any of the moderators themselves as I understand them being very protective over the team they’re associated with, but definitely found it just a bit totalitarian in nature. That said I was supportive of PCars 3, yes the marketing was shady to those that supported the more sim-focussed approach of the previous games but was willing to give the change in direction a chance.

For what it’s worth, I quite liked PC3 more than I thought I would, it’s a more arcade and simplified approach than PC1 or 2, but I feel if the series really hopes to win back the supporters of the earlier titles and build a new audience going forward then a lot of things need to change internally. Being more open and honest with consumers being a good start.

If the plan going forward is to return to a more sim-focussed approach like the earlier titles then there’s also a relationship that needs to be mended, there’s always going to be critique and feedback that might not want to be heard for those more passionately involved in the series but it’s clear that there’s passionate fans that get what the series was originally going for, that certainly felt shafted by the marketing lies surrounding PCars 3. A more open and approachable community platform for the series definitely wouldn’t hurt, and neither would a change in tact from the over-defensive nature of SMS.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Why do you folks even bother? It's clear from their behavior that both of these folks are not interested in a real conversation, as can be seen from throwing around baseless claims followed by complete silence when being called out to provide details or examples of those claims, as well as complete silence when being presented with evidence.

If you're expecting a real and honest conversation to come from this I think you'll be disappointed. Then again, at least you've tried.

 

[c172fccc]

Man, I'm late, but what a trainwreck...

SMS marketing has always been apretty bad and unprofessional. Back in the WMD days I remember a lot of marketing mistakes and surprisingly Bandai Namco made a lot of them. I didn't think it could ever be worse... until pCars 3 of course.

I think a lot of their wrongdoings has been mentionned a lot, so I won't repeat them here, but can we just talk about how horrible their car/track list reveal was for Project CARS 3? We were multiple people on the Discord pointing out all the missing stuff and the mistakes in the car list. It took WEEKS to fix it, with countless back and forths.

Oh and Nathan... He should never ever be part of the marketing. I cringed so much when he hosted that Q&A on Discord and cursed at a customer because he somehow misunderstood his question and tought the guy was a troll or something. His attitute was just awful, it felt like he had some kind of power trip hosting all this stuff and that it was some kind of godly favour being able to talk to him. No thanks...

The Discord chat was kind of fun, but I feel like it killed the forum. Where are developpers that used to engage on the forum? Where's Casey, Jussi, Bruno and all? That was the part that made me like SMS, now I'm a looking at the forum and it is quite in a sad state. It so dead that it seems that the mods likes to start drama over here so they have something to do (come on guys... don't have to react at everything you disagree about and no need to be offended for someone else. If Ian or anyone else at SMS think that they're being treated unfairly over here... well be it... you guys don't need try to moderate over here, it's not your job and you're honnestly making everything worse).

And where are the long and detailed release notes? I use to love to try all this new stuff, made me eager to play the game everytime. Not sure how it is behind the scene, but it seems like the passion is gone. If it's not... well they're not showing it anymore.

Oh I loved the screenshot community that pCars and pCars 2 used to have, I made a lot of screenshots for those games, but for pCars 3, this community is also pretty much dead.

Anyway, I'm just rambling here, but let me just say that I find all of this quite sad and it surely stained the appreciation I used to have for SMS with the awesome experience I had with WMD and WMD2.

 

[ScottPuss20]

The horse has bolted for SMS and I don't think they'll ever be able to succeed again. They've destroyed the reputation of Project Cars and many people have decided to go elsewhere for a realistic simulator. If Project Cars 3 was a proper follow-up, the people who I played with may not have gone to iRacing and I wouldn't have bought Assetto Corsa for my PC. SMS' incompetence has caused many people to move away from Project Cars and spend their money elsewhere. The damage has been done and nothing will save them now.

 

[Zeitoss]

The damage has been done and nothing will save them now.

This may be a bit too early to say now.

But is definitely true the rest.

I hope they can benefit from a second chance, but this will be probably their last.

It is amazing to think that they were so close to create a wonderful game, by:
1. Taking everything from Project Cars 2 (which was already perfectly working on most of the systems).
2. Refining the control system, especially with controller, making it more user friendly (which they did indeed).
3. Adding the offline custom championship, as they promised many times.
4. Optimizing here and there.

Amazing to think that they achieved point 2, and they managed to screw up completely points 1, 3 and 4.

 

[Johnnn]

Depends on the audience. If you target casual stuff like GT, Forza or CM games, you will get as many chances as you want because they don't care. If you want hardcore sim racers, you are doomed It's pretty hard to build anything for sim racers.

At least sim racing world showed me how opinions vary. The only way is to test everything on your own and trust no one. Most people don't know what they talk about.

SMS are probably safe. They will release some casual game (re-release of PC3 as Shift 3) next time and then maybe something like sim racer again. The market there is strange and I am not sure you can make easy profit right now. Many people are spoiled and don't want to pay for anything. Creating assets and paying for licenses must be crazy expensive. So risky market. After all your communication channels will be flooded with casuals with strong opinions

 

[Scaff]

This may be a bit too early to say now.

But is definitely true the rest.

I hope they can benefit from a second chance, but this will be probably their last.

It is amazing to think that they were so close to create a wonderful game, by:
1. Taking everything from Project Cars 2 (which was already perfectly working on most of the systems).
2. Refining the control system, especially with controller, making it more user friendly (which they did indeed).
3. Adding the offline custom championship, as they promised many times.
4. Optimizing here and there.

Amazing to think that they achieved point 2, and they managed to screw up completely points 1, 3 and 4.

I agree that it's too early to tell.

The interesting thing is that most of what you asked for has already been done (is being done), just not by SMS, what Reiza are doing with the Madness engine in AMS2 is exactly what SMS should have done, and will include off-line custom championships in the next update (scheduled for the end of this week).

I just hope AMS2 gets a console release at some point, as not only is it a great example of what the Madness engine can do, but its also got so many tracks that just don't get 'air-time' on console and are brilliant. Honestly, South American national and club level racing has some great tracks.

At least sim racing world showed me how opinions vary. The only way is to test everything on your own and trust no one. Most people don't know what they talk about.

That approach is exactly what got SMS into this current state in the first place. It's quite honestly the worst advice I can think of given the circumstances!

 

[Johnnn]

That approach is exactly what got SMS into this current state in the first place. It's quite honestly the worst advice I can think of given the circumstances!

I just don't like current communication non-sense. You shouldn't care what others think because you are the designer. Most people are dumb and will tell you complete garbage. Check the forums. If you are company with talented people you know exactly what you want and need. Don't exchange that for average company with average people. You don't need much opinions from people, or at least from all people.

It's like movie makers would ask people what they want. Nobody cares, it's your product for your audience. Not some casual ***** for everybody.

 

[Samus]

Barged in here?
Don't make me laugh....
You can all spin around like you always do,fact still remains that your own admin screwed up,he can try and disguise it as a joke as much as he wants but those who are concerned certainly don't see it that way. And no matter how many of you are trying to disguise it,or (as usual) try to discredid me...that is still not going to change the fact that an admin from a forum Ian used to visit called his company liars...

Even if he did (He didn't, he insinuated it at most with a joke) so what? Is he not allowed to hold the belief they are liars?

 

[Scaff]

I just don't like current communication non-sense. You shouldn't care what others think because you are the designer. Most people are dumb and will tell you complete garbage. Check the forums. If you are company with talented people you know exactly what you want and need. Don't exchange that for average company with average people. You don't need much opinions from people, or at least from all people.

It's like movie makers would ask people what they want. Nobody cares, it's your product for your audience. Not some casual ***** for everybody.

If your product doesn't have a market then it's not going to sell. Understanding what that market is and understanding what they want from your brand and products is key, and you will only know that by talking to them. Don't do that and you will not shift the product.

Project Cars had an audience, a rather passionate and dedicated one, one that was quite clear in what they were looking fro in the next title in the series. SMS did exactly what you recommended, they went away and developed PCars 3 in isolation from that audience, making key design choices (and locking them in) without questioning how the audience it already had would react to those changes or communicating those changes with them. They then deliberately mislead that audience when they announced PCars 3, ignoring any and all concerns around the change in approach (and outright censoring a lot of that from the official channels).

The end results? The lowest selling and worst received release in the PCars series!

What your arguing for is the approach you take to an art-house film release, not one for a product you want to be commercially successful!

Do you actually believe that successful product design comes from ignoring your market and audience? It's absolutely 100% essential to understand your market and audience, to the degree that you can offer them what they need and want, but to also allow you to go beyond that and offer them what they don't know they need yet.

SMS wanted to make a more casual approach to sim racing, and they could have achieved that had the actually engaged with the audience in the right way, and been far more up front and honest about what they were doing. Hell they could have potentially managed to hit both the hardcore sim audience and the more casual audience if they hadn't thrown away what a good share of the former look for in a title, and instead made them switchable options. Instead they developed the title in isolation, promised the world to everyone and ended up with a product that was unappealing to a good share of the audience they already had, and was fair to mixed in its messaging to appeal to a new audience.

• The existing audience felt mislead and ignored and voted to a large degree with there wallets.
• The potential new audience they wanted to capture saw a product that appeared to simply be a continuation of the PCars series and saw no reason to leave the like of GT or FM for it.

Hell I like PCars 3 enough to have bought it twice (PS4 and then PC), but it's a mess of a title, poorly optimized, confused in approach and somehow technically worse than either of it predecessors.

 

[Johnnn]

If your product doesn't have a market then it's not going to sell. Understanding what that market is and understanding what they want from your brand and products is key, and you will only know that by talking to them. Don't do that and you will not shift the product.

Project Cars had an audience, a rather passionate and dedicated one, one that was quite clear in what they were looking fro in the next title in the series. SMS did exactly what you recommended, they went away and developed PCars 3 in isolation from that audience, making key design choices (and locking them in) without questioning how the audience it already had would react to those changes or communicating those changes with them. They then deliberately mislead that audience when they announced PCars 3, ignoring any and all concerns around the change in approach (and outright censoring a lot of that from the official channels).

The end results? The lowest selling and worst received release in the PCars series!

What your arguing for is the approach you take to an art-house film release, not one for a product you want to be commercially successful!

Do you actually believe that successful product design comes from ignoring your market and audience? It's absolutely 100% essential to understand your market and audience, to the degree that you can offer them what they need and want, but to also allow you to go beyond that and offer them what they don't know they need yet.

SMS wanted to make a more casual approach to sim racing, and they could have achieved that had the actually engaged with the audience in the right way, and been far more up front and honest about what they were doing. Hell they could have potentially managed to hit both the hardcore sim audience and the more casual audience if they hadn't thrown away what a good share of the former look for in a title, and instead made them switchable options. Instead they developed the title in isolation, promised the world to everyone and ended up with a product that was unappealing to a good share of the audience they already had, and was fair to mixed in its messaging to appeal to a new audience.

• The existing audience felt mislead and ignored and voted to a large degree with there wallets.
• The potential new audience they wanted to capture saw a product that appeared to simply be a continuation of the PCars series and saw no reason to leave the like of GT or FM for it.

You are right but that's exactly the problem I talked about. If you have talented guys you would NEVER release something like PC3. It's complete non-sense. The game is so bad in many ways. I can imagine similar game from average company but not from SMS. It's not about isolation it's about average people started to take over the company direction.

And the PC3 fail is good but it was rather lucky coincidence. Maybe bad timing but game is not as bad as the numbers says. You can't ignore awesome content.

Sure, you need to understand your audience but what I saw in last years is to making games for everybody (potentially high profit). Sim racing is very special, it's not Fortnite. It shouldn't be for everybody. You need to please HC players with precise/hard stuff. There is no space for much asking because you create simulation. It's pretty clear what is necessary. You just need enough talent and money, both is a big problem.

SMS did rather dumb game for casuals. It doesn't make any sense from SMS. And if it's casual game only, it's not much good. It has great roots but as a design, it's very bad. Not good for sim racers and not good enough for casuals. They messed the design. It's not about they didn't ask average Joe. Something bad happened there.

 

[Scaff]

You are right but that's exactly the problem I talked about. If you have talented guys you would NEVER release something like PC3. It's complete non-sense. The game is so bad in many ways. I can imagine similar game from average company but not from SMS. It's not about isolation it's about average people started to take over the company direction.

Utter and complete nonsense. Ian Bell has always been the driving force behind SMS and I find it very, very unlikely that changed for PC3.

It also flies in the face of the level of community involvement in the first two titles that was totally absent form the third title.

And the PC3 fail is good but it was rather lucky coincidence. Maybe bad timing but game is not as bad as the numbers says. You can't ignore awesome content.

Most of the content is recycled from the past two titles!

Sure, you need to understand your audience but what I saw in last years is to making games for everybody (potentially high profit). Sim racing is very special, it's not Fortnite. It shouldn't be for everybody. You need to please HC players with precise/hard stuff. There is no space for much asking because you create simulation. It's pretty clear what is necessary. You just need enough talent and money, both is a big problem.

SMS did rather dumb game for casuals. It doesn't make any sense from SMS. And if it's casual game only, it's not much good. It has great roots but as a design, it's very bad. Not good for sim racers and not good enough for casuals. They messed the design. It's not about they didn't ask average Joe. Something bad happened there.

You do know that what you've just said is that they didn't listen to the market and as a result designed something that missed the target and failed!

 

[Zeitoss]

I just hope AMS2 gets a console release at some point, as not only is it a great example of what the Madness engine can do, but its also got so many tracks that just don't get 'air-time' on console and are brilliant. Honestly, South American national and club level racing has some great tracks.

Hi Scaff, always a pleasure to read you.

About the part in bold, I pray about this everyday!

 

[NLxAROSA]

It's not about isolation it's about average people started to take over the company direction.

WMD was exactly that and resulted in PC1.
WMD2 was also exactly that and resulted in PC2.
PC3 never had a community driven approach and it was but a shadow of the former two.

Keep in mind that a lot of folks in here have been part of Project CARS and WMD from the very beginning, we've seen and participated in everything PC1 and PC2 up close. As a matter of fact, it was right here on GTP in the Shift 2 forums where WMD/PC was announced by Ian in 2011 (damn' has it really been almost a decade?).

 

[Johnnn]

Utter and complete nonsense. Ian Bell has always been the driving force behind SMS and I find it very, very unlikely that changed for PC3.

It also flies in the face of the level of community involvement in the first two titles that was totally absent form the third title.


Most of the content is recycled from the past two titles!


You do know that what you've just said is that they didn't listen to the market and as a result designed something that missed the target and failed!

That means Ian can't do games. Simple.

Yeah, if community did the main work, it makes sense then. I hardly think so but I found out PC year ago. So I am not sure what happened with PC3.

It's a game full of great content. Much better than Grid, for instance.

No, I said their dream audience doesn't exist.

WMD was exactly that and resulted in PC1.
WMD2 was also exactly that and resulted in PC2.
PC3 never had a community driven approach and it was but a shadow of the former two.

Keep in mind that a lot of folks in here have been part of Project CARS and WMD from the very beginning, we've seen and participated in everything PC1 and PC2 up close. As a matter of fact, it was right here on GTP in the Shift 2 forums where WMD/PC was announced by Ian in 2011 (damn' has it really been almost a decade?).

I really love what PC1 is. It's almost impossible to create so good game as a first title. Maybe SMS really can't do games, who knows or no more (PC3).

I think you don't know what average people do Most average people don't play sims and if so they don't participate in WMD. My guess is WMD was full of pretty good people because PC1 was pretty awesome like I wrote. Not average Joes.

My main problem is with casual games where developers ask "community". It's like when any great studio adds a car to the game, which is always big deal for every sim fan and what you get from casual people? They wanted different one! They wanted other tracks! They wanted lot of non-sense stuff. That's the problem. You don't want to talk to average people. WMD was probably very different group.

I was always positive about crowdfunding because it could work if crowd is not too off. Still you should rather choose who you want to participate with.

 

[Scaff]

That means Ian can't do games. Simple.

Yeah, if community did the main work, it makes sense then. I hardly think so but I found out PC year ago. So I am not sure what happened with PC3.

It's a game full of great content. Much better than Grid, for instance.

No, I said their dream audience doesn't exist.


I really love what PC1 is. It's almost impossible to create so good game as a first title. Maybe SMS really can't do games, who knows or no more
I think you don't know what average people do Most average people don't play sims and if so they don't participate in WMD. My guess is WMD was full of pretty good people because PC1 was pretty awesome like I wrote. Not average Joes.

My main problem is with casual games where developers ask "community". It's like when any great studio adds a car to the game, which is always big deal for every sim fan and what you get from casual people? They wanted different one! They wanted other tracks! They wanted lot of non-sense stuff. That's the problem. You don't want to talk to average people. WMD was probably very different group.

I was always positive about crowdfunding because it could work if crowd is not too off. Still you should rather choose who you want to participate with.

I'm going to be blunt here, you have absolutely zero idea at all what you are going on about.

WMD covered the range of people and was not 'a very different group'.

It's quite simple, talking to your audience works, not talking to them doesn't.

You clearly know very little about the development history behind the PCars series (and less about the history of the company prior to that), yet for some reason only known to yourself you keep digging. May I suggest that you put down the shovel and try listening to others, that you are telling a WMD members that they are wrong is to be blunt full blown Dunning-Kruger!