Project CARS General Discussion Thread

[Juiposa]

The Nurb is coming along well. They are starting to finish the textures in the latter part of the track.

Since err' body is doing it, why the heck not. Here a lap of the Nurb I did, starting to look very nice.



I must say I am very excited for this game.

 

[bermudakid]

I think nurburgring is too bumpy in some parts, especially the beginning of the lap.

 

[Dahlsim]

True for the jump at the beginning (Hatzenbach-Geschlängel), but it should be solved : http://forum.wmdportal.com/showthread.php?7657-Eifelwald/page9

"Camber updates in the last part of Hatzenbach (reducing jump also)"

For the rest, not too sure about the bumps, in fact in depends a lot on the cars and i think that we should wait till they finish working on the physics. The Karussel should be a lot bumpier.

This video is great to see the suspension working, and it shows that the track is still very bumpy even if some places have been resurfaced :

 

[LogiForce]

I think nurburgring is too bumpy in some parts, especially the beginning of the lap.

Which cars did you try? I don't have this idea with the Caterham Seven which I used yesterday for a quick run. The thing I did notice was that compared to the Caterham Seven it feels that some other cars don't have working or at least barely working shock dampers making them jumpy over the bumps. This include the new M1 and the Caterham R500 which has been in development for a long time now. So it might be more the car then the road surface.

 

[bermudakid]

Which cars did you try? I don't have this idea with the Caterham Seven which I used yesterday for a quick run. The thing I did notice was that compared to the Caterham Seven it feels that some other cars don't have working or at least barely working shock dampers making them jumpy over the bumps. This include the new M1 and the Caterham R500 which has been in development for a long time now. So it might be more the car then the road surface.

Ahhhh, I was driving the M1 around, with manual clutch. So on top of every bump unsettling the car also every time I down shifted too fast the back end broke loose and I spun around.

 

[digiprost]

Hello.

Impressive as this the Laguna Seca circuit, the details are perfect
I leave a video to see the difference with the actual circuit.



greetings

 

[NLxAROSA]

Looks awesome! 👍

 

[II-zOoLoGy-II]

Laguna looks fantastic. It blew me away when I loaded it up. All the trackside objects, cars, trailers, etc. really give it that track-day feel.

Can't wait for the final release.

 

[LogiForce]

Ahhhh, I was driving the M1 around, with manual clutch. So on top of every bump unsettling the car also every time I down shifted too fast the back end broke loose and I spun around.

Yeah, that also happened to me as well. I play using the CSW, CSPv2 and TH8.
I do think that the unsettling of the car on downshift is because of the lack of transient grip currently, because normally you'd have a more gradual grip loss due to the torque increase on the rear wheels when downshifting. Now if it gets past a certain threshold the car just loses all grip.

I seriously hope AJ gets that new tyre model ready soon, as in somewhere this month. Cause the more precise we get these cars dialed in with so they behave like their real life counterparts, the more obvious the short comings get of the current tyre model. Also the new FFB model that is completely reliant on the tyre model now makes it also more obvious.

We need to go back and forth at least another 3 or 4 times between tweaking of FFB and tyres when the new tyre model is implemented before we have relatively stable base in car control. At least that is what I reckon/estimate.

 

[left888]

The Nurb is coming along well. They are starting to finish the textures in the latter part of the track.

At this point this track looks nothing like Nürburgring, they have the elevations way off. It's very apparent no license was obtained nor was it laser scanned. I know a lot is riding on this game. My feeling is that they are trying to put too much into this game and are taking a half ass attempt.

There are some nice features in the game with a lot of car licenses and same for the tracks. Unfortunately there are just as many non licenses that could have helped this game along. WMD is plodding along at this point and the target now are the console players. Makes one wonder how much is too much, perhaps the PC version might play a little better.

 

[Imari]

At this point this track looks nothing like Nürburgring, they have the elevations way off. It's very apparent no license was obtained nor was it laser scanned. I know a lot is riding on this game. My feeling is that they are trying to put too much into this game and are taking a half ass attempt.

There are some nice features in the game with a lot of car licenses and same for the tracks. Unfortunately there are just as many non licenses that could have helped this game along. WMD is plodding along at this point and the target now are the console players. Makes one wonder how much is too much, perhaps the PC version might play a little better.

You're aware then how far it's come since it was a ribbon floating in the sky, then? The rate of development has been fairly impressive, every week is a noticeable improvement on the one before. I suppose you've posted where the elevations are off on the WMD forums so that the devs can fix the issues?

I'm sorry, I get a little defensive at the negativity sometimes. We have a group of devs who told EA to shove it up their collective nether regions and came to make their own thing. They're being fairly ambitious with what they're trying, but not stupidly so. (1000 cars? Hah!) They're taking feedback from the community, communicating very well, and have the whole project open for people to see. And they still cop cheap shots on the quality of unfinished assets.

I was impressed with this week's build, for what it's worth. The two Beemers are feeling a lot more like real cars and less like bricks with placholder physics stapled to them. The track updates are good. The ghost system is both good to have and nearly unusable, because the ghosts aren't translucent. But hey, can't be a winner every time. Little steps.

 

[sesselpupser]

Little steps.

Indeed, that's the way it has to be with weekly builds. I'm sure if builds were monthly there would be a lot more buzz about the game because each update would be huge, as it is it seems much slower even though it's really not. I can't imagine anyone would care about, I don't know, Battlefield 3 updates if they changed one gun every day, but as they are so far apart there's a huge buzz about each one. Same with GT5. Don't get me wrong, though, I love the weekly builds, it's just not the way to do it to get a lot of people talking.

Do they have a free demo? They could polish up one car and one circuit to be near-ready and release them for free, but when they finish other cars and tracks they could remove the old and add the new to get people coming back for more and therefore keeping the game in their mind for longer than a typical demo.

 

[Samus]

That's why I stopped downloading builds weekly, even though I can as team member. I just download a build every now and again or when there is something new, like the two Beemers last week.

I couldn't imagine the need to have a new build every day/every other day if you're a manager+ because there just aren't going to be that many changes each day. It's a slow process.

 

[CreepingDeath71]

At this point this track looks nothing like Nürburgring,

Yeah...um, probably the most stupid comment I have ever read on the internet.

It looks VERY much like the Nurburgring, is it 100% accurate? Nope, as it's a WIP. Will it get better, clearly from the other tracks I've watched get built up yes.

 

[dtshalcyon]

Here's a few more screenshots

 

[Terronium-12]

 

[left888]

IMO Nürburgring was better in GT5, it too wasn't perfect. pCARS might improve on it and then again they might not. One thing for sure is WMD did a big about face, first promising a true Sim. They really are targeting the console crowd which is a smart thing to do because they are a major purchasing force.

I get the feeling they have taken on too much in pCARS first version. Too many tracks that are of poor design with no licenses. Ya I know, they said they will obtain licenses for all of them. In the beginning the developers told us pCARS was going to be one of the top 3 true Sims. At this point pCARS is not a true Sim, I would call it a "Simcade" If you played any of the Shift series I think pCARS will be a glorified version of that series.

Will pCARS be fun? absolutely it will, I purchased my option early on into pCARS builds. As a Sim racing fan I feel it important to support racing genre. I was hoping so much that it would be more like iRacing which is the industry standard in Sim racing, don't believe me then ask one of over 300 professional race car drivers that use iRacings service.

For those of you that feel hurt don't be. This is my opinion, buy it, play it and enjoy it. For me iRacing and Assetto Corsa will be the true Sims of today.

 

[LogiForce]

I personally will keep my faith in the project. SMS still has a full year to get the licenses and further improving the game with the support of the community. And a lot can happen in a year, so to write it off at this point already is in my opinion too early, but to each his own. And it is not like iRacing doesn't have its own share of issues either, some of which are in there for half a year now (referring to some sound bugs like low speed tyre squeal). So in terms of development speed and debugging they are not the best either, but at least that is a finished/released game and pCARS is not. So it is a bit hard to compare the two to be honest, though all finished games should be seen as goals for pCARS to surpass indeed.

 

[left888]

You can't compare pCARS to iRacing, this is correct. One thing to keep in mind, iRacing is developed strictly for PC racing and keeps all aspects of road racing and oval racing. iRacing has a steep learning curve while pCARS can be picked up and enjoyed immediately. While pCARS does have a long way to go in it's developmental cycle where iRacing is far, far ahead with at least 5 years of development, iRacing has no audio issues that I am aware of. It's sound is incredible IMO.

I don't think you know what you are talking about "development speed and debugging" For those of you that are unaware iRacing works on 13 week cycles. 12 week seasons and a software update on the 13th week. Unlike pCARS iRacing doesn't release buggy software for the most part. It is released ready to go.

The one reason some people don't race with iRacing because there is no AI to race against, you race against real people online or hot lap. pCARS has this crazy AI that look like they came straight out of Road Rash They just want to kill. In fact I recommended to the developers that they should implement a Road Rash level.

I think pCARS will find a good home amongst the console players that like games like need for speed and it is good entertainment. For some of us we want more and luckily there are services like iRacing that fulfill this.

 

[KingPing]

I think we should wait till the game is finished to start comparing it to other games. The NTM is not even out yet. Your are criticizing things like AI that is just a placeholder and is going to change.

Unlike iRacing, pCARS is not out yet, the whole point of it is to being able to play the builds, buggy or not.

One thing is to say "IMO this game is a better sim than this one", i'm fine with that, but why we are still talking of things that are going to change like if they were final, when the devs confirmed they are not and they are going to improve. I´m pretty sure iRacing, AC, etc early builds were as buggy and incomplete as pCARS´s builds, the only difference is that we will never know.

 

[Samus]

IMO Nürburgring was better in GT5, it too wasn't perfect. pCARS might improve on it and then again they might not. One thing for sure is WMD did a big about face, first promising a true Sim. They really are targeting the console crowd which is a smart thing to do because they are a major purchasing force.

Yeah you're right, they won't do anything to improve it. They're just going to leave it alone for the next 12 months. As for "targeting the console crowd" what exactly do you base this theory on?

I get the feeling they have taken on too much in pCARS first version. Too many tracks that are of poor design with no licenses.

If you think the tracks are of poor design why don't you be helpful and tell them what is wrong with them? They're never going to get things right in this community driven project if the community don't tell them what is wrong.

Ya I know, they said they will obtain licenses for all of them. In the beginning the developers told us pCARS was going to be one of the top 3 true Sims. At this point pCARS is not a true Sim, I would call it a "Simcade" If you played any of the Shift series I think pCARS will be a glorified version of that series.

I honestly don't understand how you can even compare the two, this game feels nothing like Shift. I could barely drive a lap on those games because the handling was so awful, this is not like that at all.

Will pCARS be fun? absolutely it will, I purchased my option early on into pCARS builds. As a Sim racing fan I feel it important to support racing genre.

Well then why don't you? Like I said above, if you think tracks are wrong or physics are wrong tell them what is wrong, don't just post it on this forum, it's going to help nobody.

For those of you that feel hurt don't be. This is my opinion, buy it, play it and enjoy it. For me iRacing and Assetto Corsa will be the true Sims of today.

Interesting you slate pCARS in it's early form and then go to says Assetto Corsa will be a true sim when you've not even played it at all.

 

[Adrianf1]

Laguna Seca (Updated Version) / Build 302 [Full HD]

​

👍

 

[CreepingDeath71]

You can't compare pCARS to iRacing, this is correct. One thing to keep in mind, iRacing is developed strictly for PC racing and keeps all aspects of road racing and oval racing. iRacing has a steep learning curve while pCARS can be picked up and enjoyed immediately. While pCARS does have a long way to go in it's developmental cycle where iRacing is far, far ahead with at least 5 years of development, iRacing has no audio issues that I am aware of. It's sound is incredible IMO.

I don't think you know what you are talking about "development speed and debugging" For those of you that are unaware iRacing works on 13 week cycles. 12 week seasons and a software update on the 13th week. Unlike pCARS iRacing doesn't release buggy software for the most part. It is released ready to go.

The one reason some people don't race with iRacing because there is no AI to race against, you race against real people online or hot lap. pCARS has this crazy AI that look like they came straight out of Road Rash They just want to kill. In fact I recommended to the developers that they should implement a Road Rash level.

I think pCARS will find a good home amongst the console players that like games like need for speed and it is good entertainment. For some of us we want more and luckily there are services like iRacing that fulfill this.

I would seriously love to see what iRacing was like after just one year or so of development.

It is ludicrous to compare a product in development with one that is VERY well established. Utterly and completely ludicrous.

Regarding iRacings steep learning curve, I think it's pretty much established by most normal people that a sims difficulty is by no means related to reality. I found Ridge Racer damn hard to play (manly due to it being so unrealistic), so difficulty is largely irrelevant. If a car is easy to drive at a certain pace in reality then it should be easy to drive in a simulation.

Personally I don't bother with iRacing because I have very limited funds and the game is a money pit. For basically the price of two months of iRacing I have been playing pCARS for almost a year. I have watched a game being developed (which is a fascinating insight), and I have in my own small way contributed to the game (possibly ). There's many things I'm happy with so far, many things I am unhappy with so far. And that's the same with every single game I have ever played apart from GTR2. The only difference is the things I'm unhappy with have a strong chance of being changed more to my liking in pCARS.

Belittling something with the tag "simcade" says more about the person using the term than the game being labelled. It say's to me that's persons opinion is biased and irrelevant.

If SMS can bring a "proper" simulation to the consoles then they should be applauded for the attempt, much like Simbin and Race Pro. For all that is good about Forza and Gran Turismo, they ultimately leave me cold from a racing point of view. The PC version will be more advanced than the console versions, it's not likely to be held back by the console development.

 

[LogiForce]

You can't compare pCARS to iRacing, this is correct. One thing to keep in mind, iRacing is developed strictly for PC racing and keeps all aspects of road racing and oval racing. iRacing has a steep learning curve while pCARS can be picked up and enjoyed immediately. While pCARS does have a long way to go in it's developmental cycle where iRacing is far, far ahead with at least 5 years of development, iRacing has no audio issues that I am aware of. It's sound is incredible IMO.

I don't think you know what you are talking about "development speed and debugging" For those of you that are unaware iRacing works on 13 week cycles. 12 week seasons and a software update on the 13th week. Unlike pCARS iRacing doesn't release buggy software for the most part. It is released ready to go.

The one reason some people don't race with iRacing because there is no AI to race against, you race against real people online or hot lap. pCARS has this crazy AI that look like they came straight out of Road Rash They just want to kill. In fact I recommended to the developers that they should implement a Road Rash level.

I think pCARS will find a good home amongst the console players that like games like need for speed and it is good entertainment. For some of us we want more and luckily there are services like iRacing that fulfill this.

I agree that pCARS is being developed with a different concept then iRacing was and still is being further developed under. However, that the concept is different and target group is larger does not have to mean that the finished product will have a compromise in simulation gameplay per say. For example you would not need to compromise the gameplay when using a wheel but with aids have to help the gamepad players a bit. You just have to make it playable for gamepad users and as real as possible for wheel users. In the end there is nothing wrong with opening up a whole new world for those who go and buy a wheel.

Audio issues are there. If you drive at low speeds like in the pits it sounds like your tires are locking up and there are curbs out on some of the tracks that have their audio misplaced or is not present. And I would like to have some curb audio for my BKG2. To be honest pCARS is currently in my opinion better with audio tactile feedback.

I think I know a bit more about development then you do to be honest. As I have been playing around with game engines and had a go with someone else on developing one at some point, as well as having worked at a company that developed a world wide known testing methodology.
What you are referring to has little to do with the speed of development there. It is just the release cycle for the updates and nothing more. In other words what you refer to is the interval of when an update gets released independent upon the quantity of changes made to the code of the game.

With "Unlike pCARS iRacing doesn't release buggy software for the most part. It is released ready to go" it shows me that you still have not understood where pCARS stands in its development cycle. iRacing is a finished game that gets major and minor updates, but pCARS is one year away from release.
Actually let us compare it to developing a new car model. You have one team from a company and they go develop the first sketches of the car and and another team works on the engine of the car. After the first concepts are finished and plans are written down they go to get support from their superiors and see if they like it. After the first concept has been approved they start to make the first prototype of the car with a used but great engine which they used in previous cars. With the prototype they will look for some investors (in the case of crowd sourced pCARS at least).
Okay, all up to this point was prior to and up till WMD opening to the public. The team developing the sketches are the SMS art team, the team on the engine are those of SMS working on the game engine (the Slightly Mad Engine) including all things including physics. They first go to the head of the company (Ian in the case of SMS) and if he gives the green light they decelop a first working prototype of the game. There after it was shown to the public and we all got involved. These are the first steps in the pre-alpha development stage.
After working on the prototype of the car/game we need to go to a working concept of the car/game. As you all know concept cars will still change a lot but they are in big lines how the final car will look. Now with the game we are still at the stage from prototype to a finished concept. If we reach finished concept the game will be in alpha stage. Which means that from pre-alpha to alpha you will see the most changes.
Even from alpha to beta there will still be enough changes though less noticeable. It is normally the stage where a concept car goes to production model prototype. And in beta stage it will go through heavy testing and tweaking to make the car perfect and safe to drive on a daily basis. When everyone is satisfied the car is finished and in the software world we will say that it has reached the Gold Master stage. The reviewers get a copy to review and the thing goes into production after which at a set date it is finally released to the public.

So yeah, still many changes to come in this pre-alpha stage. It is hard to write it off yet.

I agree with pCARS having crazy AI yet, but that is just a place holder. If you'd release a game with that AI it would be badly received with the public. Though a road rash kinda option would be fun indeed.
Talking about levels in options there is an AI aggression slider. Maybe you can play with that a little.

I think pCARS will find a good home at PC as well. Like you say not everyone likes the concept of iRacing because of various reasons they tend to mention. If pCARS will be a more casual simulator then iRacing I am sure that they will attract a PC crowd that don't like to spend money on iRacing as it is expensive, they want AI to play against in a good singleplayer mode. Or go through a nice virtual racer's career in the career mode. And if they want to play with their mates they can go online in their own time, especially when they work all and the family goes first it is hard to find time for some.

So yeah, each of the games will have their own type of crowd. But the type of crowd the game attracts does not say much about if the game is or isn't a simulator. For instance Lewis Hamilton loves to play with his brother in a casual way as they love to drive each other off of the track. Though if I remember well he did say that sometimes they drive competitively. Hell, I think Lewis would love pCARS with the road rash AI. Haha
So yeah, not every professional race driver has to have the same demands of a game. Some will just play more seriously then others and so on.

 

[Imari]

I don't think you know what you are talking about "development speed and debugging" For those of you that are unaware iRacing works on 13 week cycles. 12 week seasons and a software update on the 13th week. Unlike pCARS iRacing doesn't release buggy software for the most part. It is released ready to go.

I'm sorry, iRacing is working on updates to a publically released game. It is expected to be relatively bug free. pCARS has NO publically released version. It has alpha version circulated amongst testers. Alpha versions are buggy by definition.

Talk about your apples and oranges comparisons.

 

[Shaun]

I think pCARS will find a good home at PC as well. Like you say not everyone likes the concept of iRacing because of various reasons they tend to mention. If pCARS will be a more casual simulator then iRacing I am sure that they will attract a PC crowd that don't like to spend money on iRacing as it is expensive, they want AI to play against in a good singleplayer mode. Or go through a nice virtual racer's career in the career mode. And if they want to play with their mates they can go online in their own time, especially when they work all and the family goes first it is hard to find time for some.

And this just about sums me up perfectly. 👍

To put it simply, as much as I enjoy racing against real people, more often than not I just don't have the time. I certainly don't have the time to commit to a league that requires set times to race.
All I would like is a decent single player mode with good AI and the ability to have the casual race against mates.

Cheers Shaun.

 

[CC570]

I'm sorry, iRacing is working on updates to a publically released game. It is expected to be relatively bug free. pCARS has NO publically released version. It has alpha version circulated amongst testers. Alpha versions are buggy by definition.

Talk about your apples and oranges comparisons.

Am I wrong but can't anyone buy into pCARS now? As a "pre-alpha" tester or whatever you choose to call it?
You pay your money you get access; sounds like a release of sorts to me.

 

[NLxAROSA]

Am I wrong but can't anyone buy into pCARS now? As a "pre-alpha" tester or whatever you choose to call it?
You pay your money you get access; sounds like a release of sorts to me.

Software products are realized in iterations. At the end of each iteration, you have a working build. At the end of a number of iterations, the product is done, and then released to customers. Then work moves on to the next product (or post-release fixing, or both). Not just the case for pCARS, but for any software/product development project.

What we get here is access to the iteration builds. The only difference between this and other developers is that other developers don't give access to their intermediary builds. pCARS has not been released yet, much like AC hasn't been released yet.

That said, comparing a finished product to one that is not is ridiculous.

 

[kligson]

publically released as in retail version. Try buying the game "Project Cars" from stores...

 

[Terronium-12]