Project R

[the_greeze]

Don't fret Mr.L; you're not alone in tactile and lighting experiments. I should have some results to post up pretty soon

And don't let GT's lack of triple screen put you off either. Get your self a nice, big-screen display and enjoy!

 

[Mr Latte]

Cheers lads...

Greeze I have loads of surprises coming so be nice to see what you come up with.

Stega I know how you must feel.

However now you realise why Ive held off not so much buying the hardware but building the cockpit. I have been able to put the multiple PS3's to good use in the house (different rooms) and have enjoyed FM3 for a year with the triple screens.

I guess if/when this gets confirmed as definately not being supported then I will sell the additional PS3 and Monitors.

At this stage and looking at the "Options Video" the only hope is that an option is available when PS3 are networked and the game detects them. Perhaps the multiscreen options are within the 3DTV options menu which the guy couldnt access. So maybe that set of menus is only available when PS3 detects 3DTV or multiple PS3 in LAN.

It may be clutching at straws but according to PS3M muliscreens IS possible. Now I previously have mistaken/misread what was said. I was assuming they meant 3x 3DTVs but read again its not it says 3x HDTVS. Something nobody picked up on my mistake. Also notice that PS3M state 30fps per eye for 3D. We could do with a video of the ingame manual as it usually goes into detail of all the options and might offer more info on the 3DTV menu.

Ive been bracing myself for the worst but will not give up until I know for certain it isnt supported or can not be done.
So until Sony confirm or someone connects up multiple systems in LAN I wont give up hope just yet.

 

[stega]

Are you buying 3 copies on release day??? Or you will wait and see?

 

[Mr Latte]

Are you buying 3 copies on release day??? Or you will wait and see?

I have the SE on order, intended getting the additional 2x standard discs cheap using a friends staff discount from "hmv".
If their is no confirmation forthcoming prior to release by someone then yes I will give it a go.

 

[stega]

I have the SE on order, intended getting the additional 2x standard discs cheap using a friends staff discount from "hmv".
If their is no confirmation forthcoming prior to release by someone then yes I will give it a go.

I will help pay for half a copy if you do so. As I do not have the ps3's to test etc...

 

[Racer XO]

I will help pay for half a copy if you do so. As I do not have the ps3's to test etc...

I already purchased 3 PS3's and have paid for 3 copies of the game already so I will let you guy's know if triple screens are supported if nothing has been confirmed by release day.

I'm crossing my fingers that triple screens are supported considering the investment I made.

 

[Timppaq]

My only input on this 3 screen issue can be that no official material has been shown to get an official confirmation of it for the Finnish people working for Sony Playstation (asked it personally). It might not mean anything.. I'd think that the ad. in the magazine would have been corrected already (like the Indy Cars thing) if it was not right.

I really hope that it will be included in all playmodes.


These kind of things should have been confirmed or denied 6 months ago.

 

[stega]

I sure hope so.

Thanks Racer, are you taking the day off next week???
(Just trying to plan next week out, if all of a sudden I need 2 more ps3's and copies of the game I can see myself scrambling...)

 

[ibuycheap]

The 30fps for 3D is true Latte. This is not looking good for either of us at the moment. I am really unbelievably pissed at the moment, its like they just want you to spend money on a 3D tv so the said screw triple screen.

technically the hdmi 1.4 spec can do up to 60hz per eye in 720p but only 30hz in 1080p.

 

[Mr Latte]

Okay so GT5 is RELEASED and in our hands.....

On the positive side of things the game seems in general quite staggering with many options and variety. Not without its issues and annoyances of course but for me a key factor and one Im so happy about is that this is a great game with a wheel and fun to play. Seems to balance good fun physics with not too much OTT simulation aspects. Let me say that again, its FUN thats the biggest factor, more important than jaggy shadows, frame tearing and other graphical glitches. We have here importantly for me the basis of a game that can provide entertainment for a long time and with GT5 Updates coming thats even more to look forward to the games longevity.

The bad news of course is the whole multiscreen situation and I feel gutted as do some others because that would of looked incredible in GT5. At the same time at least we now know.

So regards the project some initial redesign ideas will have to be made and consideration of using a projector or possible 3DTV now the screen options.

If anyone has good links to GT5 3DTV opinions or Review please PM or link them.
Alternatively be nice to hear from 3DTV owners out their?

Ive decided with the lack of multiscreens to supplement that by taking the audio even further to increase the immersion even more. GT5 can with the right car(s) produce some of the best tactile effects Ive ever felt from a console racing game.


GT5 Tactile Impressions
The tacile/sensation of feeling cars around the player is such a great boost to the immersion definitely improved a lot over GT5P. Also the crash audio effect (some have called an annoying sound) this produces movie quality low end LFE giving a massive felt thump (via Ultra Bass Pro Sub harmonic Pocessor). You really feel when a car hits you from behind now or crashing into one in front.

Improvements now being implemented for the audio is to take the previous ideas and expand them throughout the cockpit.


Updated Audio:
So feeling the cars to the side as passing and feeling cars engine/exhaust when your right up behind one is pretty cool. I thought okay, why then am I not getting that same effect for cars behind mine as they approach? Okay so to improve this means adding stereo surround tactile to the back of the seat and incorporating the (Side Surround) channels in tactile. This then means offering full individual EQ control to every Tactile Unit (very important) and providing full surround in a tactile format to match full surround sound. Surely this will be perfect for balancing and creating the desired effect? Additionally I wanted to retain having F/C/R speakers to be altered individually via EQ. This is important to counter some of "GT5's in Game" sounds like "wind noise" or "digital harmonic drones". Also some cars seem to lack real engine grunt (Ferrari F430) as an example so I can if wanting make audible changes to the games original audio and boost some low end engine frequencies yet toning down some higher pitched ones.

Crazy Gets Even More Crazy!!!
5x Behringer 31 Band Equalisers (2x more ordered, they are brillant)
Gives 7xTactile 3x Speaker EQ Control.

Left 2x Tactile Units (Side Of Seat)
Right 2x Tactile Units (Side Of Seat)
Centre 1x Tactile Unit (Pedals)
R Surround 1x Tactile Unit (Back Of Seat)
L Surround 1x Tactile Unit (Back Of Seat)

LFE 1x Tactile Unit (Below Seat)
* Via Behringer Ultrabass Harmonic Processor


Money made from selling off screens etc should help to get the ball rolling on actually starting to build this now the screen issue is past and finally I can work from a finalised layout. I know some of you have waited a long time but you can bet in the looks/styling department I wont just do something simple....

 

[jswilli1]

I have 3 PS3's and 3 monitors but only 1 copy of the game, Might be getting a second copy of GT5 if I can get the wife interested in playing since she could use my DFGT wheel. The 3rd PS3 has a bad Blu-Ray Drive but I plan on ordering a new one in the near future. I will wait for Racer XO's report before I start disassembling rooms to try out the 3 screen mode unless there is something you want specifically checked out? Good to see the Project R thread got bumped back to the top again.

 

[Mr Latte]

I have 3 PS3's and 3 monitors but only 1 copy of the game, Might be getting a second copy of GT5 if I can get the wife interested in playing since she could use my DFGT wheel. The 3rd PS3 has a bad Blu-Ray Drive but I plan on ordering a new one in the near future. I will wait for Racer XO's report before I start disassembling rooms to try out the 3 screen mode unless there is something you want specifically checked out? Good to see the Project R thread got bumped back to the top again.

Search the forums their I think are a couple of "Triple Screen" threads mate.
I done a report on my own findings a few days ago...

Here Post 265

 

[jswilli1]

Search the forums their I think are a couple of "Triple Screen" threads mate.
I done a report on my own findings a few days ago...

Here Post 265

Oops somehow I missed that one, thanks!

 

[Mr Latte]

Past few days Ive been drawing up some ideas for the new front end of the cockpit and screen section.

Upon some researching for a 3DTV display and finding costs in the UK for something close to a 60" is £2200+ which is madness for a dedicated screen on a cockpit. 50" are available for under £1000 now which isnt so bad and I have had one in mind. Of course having a 3D display also works in 2D but having the choice is the key element. It seems some people are really amazed at 3D gaming and others not so but personally I enjoy 3D. GT5 has had mixed results depending on the hardware used and settings. Research the past week has shown that it seems to need tweaking to work best with the specific display used but some even with lower framerates are impressed with it.


On the other hand however I have come across a very neat new product that is releasing soon.

This....

3DXL Info




A suitable 120Hz Projector such as the Optoma 600X
See Here

3DXL Cost to be £250 (before discount / includes 1x pair glasses available Jan 2011)
Optoma 600X already available approx £400 (cheaper models available)

In 3D terms thats super value with what should be decent quality image. However some main advantages over a dedicated cockpit 3DTV.
1) Easily portable for usage somewhere else
2) Upto 100" 3D screen could be possible
3) Excellent value and cheapest entry for a large 3D screen experience


So looks like triple screen is out and 60" 3D / 2D is going in

 

[bx2230]

Mr Latte,
That 3D projector does look very interesting - thanks for sharing! I do have one question. Does the fact that the projector does 720p and not 1080p an issue? I read (most of) the article on the main page of GTP about the technical review of GT5 as it concerned the different methods PD used for the different screen resolutions, but I must admit, most of it was over my head. What I did get from that article was that they handled 720p better than they handled 1080p. Any thoughts?

Thanks,
David

 

[mookieo2]

If a 720P display gets a 1080p signal it will just scale it down. The ps3 can and should then be set to 720p/ 1080i.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yeah its an interesting adapter and making all such compatible projectors not only HDMI 1.4 3D compliant but also Nvidia 3D compatible of course. That would open up the possibility of many games in 3D.

The Optoma 600x projector seems to get good reports with better blacks compared to some other projectors in its budget price point.
I think its the one I would choose now.

With GT5 I guess you could compare 2D native 720p via PS3 @ 720p to the 1080p PS3 setting and see what one looks better.
Dont forget games like LBP 2 and Killzone 3 are due to really utilise 3D also.

3D tends to get better results not so much from higher resolution but larger screen size giving a more impressive effect. I guess thats were a PJ will be great and alowing easy setup.

For some of the guys here that bought 2x additional consoles and have triple monitors, by selling those off this idea/solution will cost very little extra. Maybe some of them will find it appealing too.

 

[stega]

LBP 2 is gonna be in 3D!!! Awesome LBP is one of my favorite games.

 

[Mr Latte]

LBP 2 is gonna be in 3D!!! Awesome LBP is one of my favorite games.

Maybe Im jumping the gun, they had LBP as a 3D demo once so well Im assuming they will follow their current trend with it seems new Sony AAA titles offering 3D.

Did you try comparing 2D 1080 via the Tvs- 2D-3D conversion compared to the in game 720p 3D mode. Have you also found it difficult to get a balance on GT5's 3D settings?

Rate it so far outta 10 if you could...

Tech Radar
GT5 3D performance
"In action, GT5's 3D performance is so far ahead of Black Ops' that it's frankly embarrassing for the latter's developer, Treyarch. Especially when you consider that Black Ops' PS3 3D implementation was notably inferior to the Xbox 360's.

For a start, the amount of crosstalk noise (ghosting around the edges of objects in the mid and far distance) is vastly reduced. So much so that it's hardly visible at all when playing on one of Panasonic's 3D plasma TVs.

The higher you set the Parallax setting the more crosstalk noise and blurring you start to see. But you can then reduce this again via careful manipulation of the convergence tool.

Crosstalk remains, it has to be said, more evident on LCD TVs than it is on the Panasonic plasmas, but this is down to shortcomings in LCD technology, not problems with the GT5's 3D engine.

Good looking

With practically zero crosstalk noise to contend with when playing on plasma TVs, it's much easier to appreciate another strength of the GT5 3D technology: resolution. For even though the game inevitably has to sacrifice some resolution to fit the necessary 'top and bottom' stereo 3D images onto your screen, the action still looks much more high definition in 3D than Black Ops does.

This is extremely important, for it neatly sidesteps the common issue with side by side material whereby switching to 3D means trading an HD image for something that looks more like a standard def one."

 

[wright_stuf]

Mr Latte.... ive been following your posts on this site and AV Forums, and was waiting with baited breath for the finished pictures of your build... but you havent posted this year!
any chance of showing us the finished product?

 

[nMd_pRo]

OMG this is the most amaizing project i've seen in gt5, do you have any updates on it?

 

[Mr Latte]

Hi guys.

Well news of multiscreens really made me happy and great to have played the game this way.

Although I havnt updated this thread, trust me loads of additions and more equipment has been purchased to go beyond even the recent plans.

The frame of the cockpit isnt as important at the moment as for me the concept of the cockpit is based around the audio/tactile immersion and of course the visual aspect of triplescreens. The audio concept has really been given a hike and to combine subwoofers on the main channels with tactile also on the main channels. So really its combining surround sound with surround bass and surround tactile effects. Individual EQs will also allow 12 devices speakers/tactile to be controlled for the desired effect and calibration.

Equipment Totals Purchased Ready For The Build:
5x Subwoofers (3x12 2x10") up from 2 before.
6x Graphic Equalisers, up from 2 before.
2x Sub harmonic bass processors.
8x Buttkicker / tactile units.
10x Speakers
5x Amplifers

So thats deffo it regards audio hardware:
Will keep you lot posted....

T500RS arived, loving that and will use the Gamepod Evo seat base component for the seat mounting.
Then it s a case of finally getting it all together and work on the metal frame/wooden base it sits on.

 

[novcze]

You guys who are making triple screen setup ... go step further and do frameless triple screen setup. If you are using LCDs they are usually easy to take apart and then can be mounted on custom holder.

 

[Mr Latte]

You guys who are making triple screen setup ... go step further and do frameless triple screen setup. If you are using LCDs they are usually easy to take apart and then can be mounted on custom holder.

I looked at that but their still is a border area of the screen/panel on mine so pointless removing the border/frame. Different monitors may vary. Some new designs have very small borders now anyways and personally I dont find them an issue anyways.

 

[ShylockHolmes]

Looks good, but I'd go with the G25 over the Fanatec any day.

I'd sell my G25 all over again just to buy the Clubsport pedals for my Fanatec.

Back on topic, why not just drop $10,000 on a motion cockpit like D-Box?

 

[Mr Latte]

I dont want a motion sim and it doesnt work with GT5 is why.
Besides you cant buy a sim anywhere that does what I will achieve here in audio/tactile immersion.

 

[wright_stuf]

Sounds amazing Mr Latte, any chance of seeing the 3 screen set up, the last photos i saw you had just got the bespoke poles made ?

 

[Mr Latte]

Sounds amazing Mr Latte, any chance of seeing the 3 screen set up, the last photos i saw you had just got the bespoke poles made ?

Well with 3 screens not being supported in GT5 upon release those were dismantled. Will have to redo and those now we know 3 screen support is now in the game.

My main priority next is actually connecting all the audio hardware to the base sections which will need drilled/cut for the shallow depth subs and configure placement around the seat.

Need to wait a while to have the time to do this.
I'm pricing some components for the frame but I just Havnt the spare cash or time to finish this as quick as I'd like. Just bought the last sub, amp and T500.

 

[ShylockHolmes]

I saw a video once of a guy who turned a BMW into a virtual cockpit, it was pretty funny.

 

[wright_stuf]

Well with 3 screens not being supported in GT5 upon release those were dismantled. Will have to redo and those now we know 3 screen support is now in the game.

My main priority next is actually connecting all the audio hardware to the base sections which will need drilled/cut for the shallow depth subs and configure placement around the seat.

Need to wait a while to have the time to do this.
I'm pricing some components for the frame but I just Havnt the spare cash or time to finish this as quick as I'd like. Just bought the last sub, amp and T500.

Well be sure to keep us all informed of your progress Mr Latte/Bad Robot