Project R

[jswilli1]

True Latte the BK's tend to give you that metallic sound and "feel" if not tuned properly:tup:. My Clarke's should be here tomorrow or Thursday. Well back to my dreaded taxes, should have got an accountant this time as it has been a mentally tiring day!

 

[Mr Latte]

I know what you mean about the pain of taxes and paperwork.
You should try living in the UK and being self employed.

We have our "2011 Goverment Budget" today so we will learn how much more worse off we are likely to be this afternoon.



Back To Topic
Today I got in some new DS3 pads ordered cheap from China / Ebay:
1x BLUE
1x RED

Part of my desire of "attention to detail" I guess.


One of the pads from the 2nd hand PS3 is poor condition. So these new ones will be handy for the triple screens and not getting controllers mixed up. I already have a white one I got way back for "Prologue". These will also tie in with the "GT" colour theme I use on my screens, Blue / White / Red.
Nice!

Dont think I linked the guide for the "Multiscreens" in here before, well Ive forgotten If I did.
Many of you will already be aware of it. Needs to be finished but should help others and give people an idea how the game looks.

Im really loving having Multiscreen support in the game and if anything would tempt me to PC Games in the future it would be this.
Link

 

[lunarwolf]

very nice mr latte. looks awesome.

are you still planning on getting a sega type arcarde cockpit shell?

any plans to add full motion down the line?

 

[Mr Latte]

I wont be using an arcade shell at all and no interest in motion for the reasons illustrated before with lack of console support, noise, cost and concerns over it becoming annoying at times. Motion may be great for increasing the simulation of car movement on a track but being jolted around a lot is not my interest as Im more interested in the entertainment side of immersion and fun side of gaming rather than a pro like type simulator.

Did want to take influence from some arcade units though, mainly for adding possibly brake lights and using the WRX spoliers. Its going to look kinda like a cross between "VR3" using chrome and black base and styled a little like a Rennsport Cockpit but even nicer. Including the 3 screens, probably 8 speakers and the 5 subwoofers surrounding the seat.

Ive dropped the idea of using the dashboard I purchased mainly because with 3 screens it wont look centred properly and that annoys me.

The car vents and wings shown earlier in the thread will be used as part of the styling with the chrome tubing frame. Also some early testing with lighting will be carried through to the completed cockpit. I really will go all out even if it takes another 6 months to finish this to ensure the looks are to a high standard.

Im holding off showing what it will look like on purpose, hee hee, so guess you guys will have to just keep following the thread.

 

[blown540ci]

Hello Mr Latte

Firstly thanks for the helpful information you have put here and in your triple screen threads.They are very helpful for someone like myself looking and pondering on doing such things with my home set-up.

May i ask where you are located ?
The reason i ask is because i have had a look for the clarks here in the UK and find it tricky to order.
If you are based in the EU , May i ask where you ordered them from?
Are they worth the money.?

Thanks Mat

 

[Coxis]

Mr. Latte, do you have a link to your triple screen review?

 

[Mr Latte]

Hello Mr Latte

Firstly thanks for the helpful information you have put here and in your triple screen threads.They are very helpful for someone like myself looking and pondering on doing such things with my home set-up.

May i ask where you are located ?
The reason i ask is because i have had a look for the clarks here in the UK and find it tricky to order.
If you are based in the EU , May i ask where you ordered them from?
Are they worth the money.?

Thanks Mat

Hi, I am in Northern Ireland.
I ordered directly from "Parts Express" using their FED EX shipping option.
Ordered on the Monday it arrived on the Wednesday so brill service.
Even with the highish shipping charge these are great value compared to UK/EU prices on Buttkickers.

Parts express Clarke TST209

jswilli should Im sure be posting his thoughts on the set he ordered. Really though at the current offer price they are fantastic value for money. Best partnered with perhaps a "Subwoofer" or "Buttkicker" on LFE as these dont have just as much bass/thump as the "Mini LFE" or "BKA 300" Buttkickers have.

Mr. Latte, do you have a link to your triple screen review?

It is linked above, or see "my sig" Although I still have the "Review/Guide" to finish.
Have a family member in Hospital recently so havnt had the same spare time.


Amplifer Update
Well think Ive just about sorted now the amplification I will need for the setup.
I do not plan any further upgrade in ideas regards audio or tactile now.

Bearing in mind:
8x Speakers
5x Subwoofers
10x Tactile Units

This is quite a daunting amount of stuff for a cockpit and needs several amplifers with quite complexed wiring when included with the 5x Equalisers as it will use PREOUTS and MULTICHANNEL. Some of you are going to be lost in perhaps all the technical side of things but just ask if you have any queries. Diagrams will be uploaded come the time as it is more complex than it was even before now.
I may run into problems myself but wont know until I go to connect it all together and do tests.

Thats all part of the challenge and fun I guess.

Some may remember the Stereo Amplifer I purchased last year, the one with the blue lights for the 2x 12" subwoofers that were first purchased. Ive decided to not use that amplifer now for those subs and stick to using multiple Sony Amplifers.

So as of tonight I ordered on ebay another 5.1 amplifer that will power all the subs. Hopefully it will be powerful enough but with 5x subs they shouldnt need to be ran with that much volume.

Anyways the amplifers purchased for the cockpit are listed below:
It took some time to get the models I wanted in Silver and win the auctions.
Missed out on 4 sales for one of them.

2x Sony 1200ES 7.1 (Silver) £135 / £124
1x Sony STR DB 930 5.1 (Silver) £75
1x Sony STR DB 940 5.1 (Silver) £80
1x Buttkicker Advance

One of the next steps is to do some serious configuration testing for all the audio and determine if all will run smoothly or if changes need to be made regards the current audio/tactile hardware and plans I have.

 

[blown540ci]

Parts express Clarke TST209

Thanks ,👍

I will wait until i hear some feedback from yourself or jswilli before i pull the trigger on these (although if it configures right, cant see it being anything less than awesome)

jswilli should Im sure be posting his thoughts on the set he ordered. Really though at the current offer price they are fantastic value for money. Best partnered with perhaps a "Subwoofer" or "Buttkicker" on LFE as these dont have just as much bass/thump as the "Mini LFE" or "BKA 300" Buttkickers have.

Yeah i have the gamer2 hence the interest .

I will pop in and check how your doing with interest. Good luck.

Thanks Mat

 

[jswilli1]

Well the clark's arrived today, but I'm back on shift unfortunately. Prob won't get it all hooked up until Sunday when I'm off. I do have my amp connected and ready to setup to the Clark's. Will most likely tonight figure out how/where I will mount them. I am leaning towards a "stealth" look by mounting them inside the arms of my chair if there is enough room. If not there then most likely in a similar location to Latte's on his cobra seat (externally). I will connect them via left/right channels optically from the PS3 to my Sony ES STR-DA555ES. It appears I have an option of using the preamp outs from my Onkyo to the Sony ES 5.1 inputs for the respective channels. Definitely have some tuning to do and try, I have a feeling I will be ordering a Clark for a center channel in the near future. Will post pics and update as the build progresses into the weekend. As latte stated earlier, I am using a BK advance on my LFE/subwoofer channel which is mounted inverted on the bottom of my chair.

I decided to take a look and see how and where I would mount the clark's. It appears that I will be able to place them inside the arms of my chair as I had planned. I think I will mount them down towards the bottom (as seen in pics) where the bottom braces for the chair are. The cool thing is the clark's come with several mounting options, I think I will use the 7/16" T-nut in the wood. With this mount I can buy extra T-nuts at the hardware store and can physically mount the transducer low in the chair or high in the arm and find a location for the best response. Overall the transducer is manufactured rather nicely.

Bottom of Chair (Inside Right Arm)

Close up Bottom of Chair (Inside Right Arm)

Clarke moved up farther in Right arm

 

[ShylockHolmes]

Clarke's are Clarke Synthesis Tactile Transducers not headphones.

I know what they are, I was talking about surround sound system. With the TB you can chat and still have perfect surround instead of blocking an ear out.

 

[ShylockHolmes]

I know what you mean about the pain of taxes and paperwork.
You should try living in the UK and being self employed.

We have our "2011 Goverment Budget" today so we will learn how much more worse off we are likely to be this afternoon.



Back To Topic
Today I got in some new DS3 pads ordered cheap from China / Ebay:
1x BLUE
1x RED

Part of my desire of "attention to detail" I guess.


One of the pads from the 2nd hand PS3 is poor condition. So these new ones will be handy for the triple screens and not getting controllers mixed up. I already have a white one I got way back for "Prologue". These will also tie in with the "GT" colour theme I use on my screens, Blue / White / Red.
Nice!

Dont think I linked the guide for the "Multiscreens" in here before, well Ive forgotten If I did.
Many of you will already be aware of it. Needs to be finished but should help others and give people an idea how the game looks.

Im really loving having Multiscreen support in the game and if anything would tempt me to PC Games in the future it would be this.
Link

I got the blue dualshock 3 $25 from China, but for a cockpit setup you should really consider mounting the Move Navigator controller it's so much smaller and only requires one hand to comfortably hold it.

 

[Mr Latte]

Yeah, the "navi" controller came up a while back, it's okay but missing some buttons. For instance in GT5 if playing in Arcade mode and a replay then you can't for instance zoom in as their is no "triangle" button.

I've found the T500 buttons and dpad have a nice feel, so it's ideal, the other controllers are used mainly for the triple screen settings.

Jswilli,
That should give good tactile, you may though have some speaker verberation with it in such an enclosed space. Look forward to your comments.

 

[jswilli1]

Yeah, the "navi" controller came up a while back, it's okay but missing some buttons. For instance in GT5 if playing in Arcade mode and a replay then you can't for instance zoom in as their is no "triangle" button.

I've found the T500 buttons and dpad have a nice feel, so it's ideal, the other controllers are used mainly for the triple screen settings.

Jswilli,
That should give good tactile, you may though have some speaker verberation with it in such an enclosed space. Look forward to your comments.

Will definitely let you know how it works out:tup: The only problem I see about adding a third Clark at this point for a center channel is I cannot use the optical out from the PS3 as this is only two channel stereo. As for the HDMI output when using mutli audio out on the PS3 is it knocks it down to 5.1 (which is OK because I don't use 7.1 yet). I have a feeling that the Center/Left/Right pre outs from my Onkyo will be going to the Sony 5.1 inputs and I will be utilizing the amp in that configuration. I know its a bit down the road but just weighing in on all the options at this point. I think since the arms are clothed and padded I won't have too much of an issue with reverb. I have one more shift day tomorrow and then the build is on!

I will most likely utililize the GT5 remote races (20min) to make my adjustments since there are various tracks and cars and I can change camera views on each of the cars for more in depth testing. I could use a few extra credits and XP points on the side as well.

 

[Mr Latte]

Stereo is all you need from the optical cable as you can put your Sony into "Pro Logic II" or other "DSP" mode to create the surround decoding and use centre or surround channels. Easy, Peasy.

It may not be just as good as a pure decoded signal but I think you will find it will work quite nice. Again as said before you may find going with a surround channel instead of a centre channel gives you more immersion in the chair.

The centre channel seems more restricted to be honest even with engine noises. Panning of cars really only kicks in when the cars in the distance are pretty much dead centre on screen. Also up close cars exhausts are effective.

Id really consider testing and comparing like I said earlier having a unit sitting on your lap as a "Centre" and later "Surround" channel to feel exactly when and how it comes into action. That way "YOU" decide whats more to "YOUR" preference.

Ive definetly decided to have the chair without a "Centre" tactile finding the "Surround" to be better for me anyways and will add one to whatever feels best at the front either using L/C/R under the wheel shelf or L/C/R at the pedal section built into the base unit of the cockpit. Whatever gives the greater results will be what I will go for. Depends if the tactile effects on a wheel tray in any way muddles up the detection of of "FFB/Rumble" from the steering wheel. If so then the best place for it will be the base unit at the pedals.

 

[jswilli1]

Ok Latte you are the Man and nothing short of brilliant! I spent my whole afternoon installing my Clarks in the arms of my chair and doing some much needed cable management at the same time. I also utilized speaker terminals so that I could keep my chair mobile when not in use ( I use Super Sliders under the rubber isolators to slide it across the carpet). There is a whole lot of everything going on in my chair now and I don't even know where to start. I did try some tuning from remote races on Rome (cobblestone) and Laguna Seca with the muscle cars to seasonal events on SSR5 with the Motul Civic to Rome with the 4WD RM Mitsubishi. I also took the sport trucks Ford SVT Lightning on Mt. Aso Tarmac for a spin in that seasonal event. I am using optical from the PS3 (multi audio out) to the secondary Sony ES amp to drive the Clark's. I am of course using left/right channels with speakers set to "Large" and the sound field for Virtual Semi-Theater C. There are so many sound fields on this A/V receiver and I have tried most of them including AFD (auto format decoding which is similiar to Multichannel on the newer receivers). The current setting is using only left/right channels with Dolby Pro Logic where AFD does not use Pro Logic. I am very interested in trying the left/right pre outs from my Onkyo and utilizing the 5.1 inputs on the Sony to see if I can get some real speaker seperation between the Clark's.

Now to what the Clarks are doing in conjunction with the ButtKicker Advance. I can literally "feel" the wall if hit on the left or right side this even includes another car. I can also feel the rumble strips left or right when traveling over them. My chair "emits" engine noises or music from menu's in the game, I have turned off all music in game, replays, etc. The Clarks pretty much do what the ButtKicker cannot do with the audible frequencies. for instance the sport trucks: SVT Lightning with the whining super charger I can literally feel it and hear it topping out in my shifter on my G25. The Clarks also have somewhat made my chair into a speaker so to say, I will try to dial some of it out with the Sony ES though. I have just begun my "tweaking" of the Clark's and I don't think I have even tapped into their full capabilities yet. After I got them installed in the chair today, I had to participate in the Vintage Trans Am series with some fellow GTP'rs so I didnt get to play with the clark's till about 9pm tonight. Latte you were right about full tactile immersion, it is much better than just having a BK under you seat! Here are some pictures from todays activities:

Left Arm of Chair (with speaker terminal)

Right Arm of Chair (with speaker terminals) Note: Clarks are in center of chair one in each arm.

Close up of Right Arm with Clark mounts.

 

[Mr Latte]

Well so far money well spent then eh?
I like the speaker terminals, some nice work.
Glad your enjoying it so far, keep at it...

To be fair though others on the forums brought up "Clarke Tactile" in this thread a long time ago. If anything credit to them for bringing those to my attention however Im happy your finding that this "Surround Tactile" concept can be worth considering.

 

[Mr Latte]

This may be of help to you jswilli.

Today I removed the additional nut from the 3x TST209 I have on my seat and added proper isolators. Used 1x Clarke one with the big metal fitting on the back and for the sides used 2x of the Buttkicker Isolators (drilled a bigger hole in them)

They seem to reduce the mid range reverberations I was getting sometimes and reducing the treble/bass on the amp helped this too. I still believe because these are speakers and tactile in one unit that EQ will be the best option because then its easy to alter the various frequencies and have them give a good tactile performance but not having them sounding annoying or having issues.


Looking forward to playing and testing the audio from Shift 2.

 

[jswilli1]

This may be of help to you jswilli.

Today I removed the additional nut from the 3x TST209 I have on my seat and added proper isolators. Used 1x Clarke one with the big metal fitting on the back and for the sides used 2x of the Buttkicker Isolators (drilled a bigger hole in them)

They seem to reduce the mid range reverberations I was getting sometimes and reducing the treble/bass on the amp helped this too. I still believe because these are speakers and tactile in one unit that EQ will be the best option because then its easy to alter the various frequencies and have them give a good tactile performance but not having them sounding annoying or having issues.


Looking forward to playing and testing the audio from Shift 2.

So after a few days tweaking on the Clarkes, I will not be able to dial out the audible audio from the Clarkes using the Sony ES. It is pretty cool how the whole chair becomes a speaker though! They are definetly not High Fidelity by any means as a speaker but I like the engine noises/revs that the chair emits while driving along with the tactile aspect. It was like adding "Dual Exhaust" to the chair. The Clarkes make up for what the ButtKicker misses, while the ButtKicker makes up for what the Clarkes misses which is the deep Kick in your pants feel. I was doing the Seasonal Sport Truck again with a Ford SVT Lightning but this time on the Nurburgring (111K credits). I just can't get over the sound and feel of the whining Super Charger that the Clarks are reproducing. I also like the "feel" when you come up behind another car with a "Throaty" exhaust, the chair just comes to life.

I also played several matches on Battlefield Bad Company 2 both Vietnam and Multiplayer. I do have the Audio in the Game setup to "War Tapes" which is a 7.1 HD output. The Clarks were great when I was playing late at night when the surround was down as I could hear the game emitting through them while feeling all the other effects going on.

I have been meaning to pop in the old NFS Shift game and give it a whirl but have not done so. Curious how Shift 2 audio output will be?

Using the Left/Right/Center Pre-outs on the Onkyo was a no go, I guess it only passes a signal if there are no speakers connected. I could use Zone 2 with the RCA connection from the PS3 but I have more control using the Sony ES with the Clarkes. The Optical out from the PS3 is two channel only with no Codecs like Dolby 5.1 or my Multi Code light on the Sony ES would illuminate. I am using a soundfield that utilizes Pro Logic however.

 

[rise888]

I played about 3 hours of Shift 2 yesterday on Xbox. My two units are fed off L/R optical from the PS3. The game does not seem to produce much low freqs which is disappointing. For example the rumble strips in Shift 2 did not produce a tactile sensation like it does in GT5.

However driving the Porsche GT3 produced a great tactile sensation, probably due to the rear-engine layout.

Most of the engine sounds in the game seem to be mid-freq/'whiny' noises.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for the updates guys, ha haa dual exhaust to the chair, liked that comment.
Finally someone else can backup my claims about how different tactile models can benefit each other.

Now, trust me one step further and get a TST209 for the back surround as it just gels nicely in with the stereo giving you an additional
increase for your surround channel audio with of course the tactile feedback.

Hope people dont mind the topic of tactile being discussed here or its not confusing them.



Should have my PS3 Ltd Edition SHIFT 2 version delivered tomorrow as it only releases in UK on Friday.
Could be that they rely on the LFE for most in-game bass sounds.
Give that a go "rise" and let us know if its any better via LFE.

Strange that with stereo the low end is not featuring.

(Cough, well ive said many times about how EQs are what you want/need for ultimate control of your tactile)

 

[rise888]

I'm pretty sure there just isn't much LFE at all in Shift 2 because I could not hear much low-freq coming from my sub and two large speakers. Whereas in GT5, rumble strips and car crashes it would be very audible (and thus tactile).

An EQ or additional units would be a nice thing to have but I've drawn the line at having two tactile units. I've got to leave some budget for other hobbies

 

[nMd_pRo]

Hi Mr Latte, first i would like to congrat you for this awsome job you've made with and for gaming, i would love to know that much about wiring and so, like you do, i'm having trouble just to think if i could or not install a single buttkicker gamer in my actual sound/playstation system.

But honestly, i'm very intrigued about how you did manage to suport you baquet and still giving it stability to game, i just had mine today, its OMP one, FIA approved, it weight something like 8/9kg, its kinda heavy, and my initial idea of support won't be stable enough, so if you could please show me how you have your's when you're playing i would be appreciated.

 

[jswilli1]

Now, trust me one step further and get a TST209 for the back surround as it just gels nicely in with the stereo giving you an additional
increase for your surround channel audio with of course the tactile feedback.

I almost tried that last night by disconnecting my left/right channels from the Sony ES and pluging them into the Back surround on my Onkyo and running from 7.1. I might just have to try that just to see what is being reproduced, as for an EQ it is almost a definite must.

I know we have discussed how the Clark's don't seem to have the punch the BK advance has but that's probably because of their design and really two totally different Types of Tactile Transducers. I have yet to plug my Clarks in on the LFE channel to see how they perform. I may have to try it when I play with the Back Surround on the Onkyo. All in all I am enjoying the clarks and kind of reminds me of my audiophile days in car stereo's back in the late '80s.👍

 

[Mr Latte]

...

Hi and thanks.

What I have been doing is testing audio and tactile at home and the seat is only temporary set on a shelf/base. The cockpit build is at another location at the moment.

For the cockpit seat mount, I have ordered but yet to recieve the proper seat attachment that "Gamepod" use on their "EVO" cockpits. I did get one from them but it wasnt the correct one they sent but for the other "Monaco" seat they do.

This newer "EVO" Buttkicker attachment is a large metal undertray that attaches to a race seat with its own brackets as part of the undertray. It is possible with this design to then attach rubber isolators and connect to seat runners, which then connects to the "Gamepod" seat uprights/supports.

My intention is to use this as it looks good, will support future shifter holders (T500) and will be a stable platform. I wont use the "Buttkicker Gamer" supports they include with this as my plan is to use my "BKA 300 Buttkicker" from the LFE channel and have it attached to this metal undertray.

Testing will need to be carried out but it should allow the LFE to travel right through the undertray and the connection points to the seat giving a wider spread rather than direct connection for the LFE to encompass the seat more evenly from the LFE vibrations.

However, I want it this way so that the current tactile units which are connected directly to the seat, will not be in contact with this tray and do not have the LFE signal interfering with their own tactile signals/performance. Well thats what has been planned from the beginning.

I know some people connect their "LFE Tactile" directly to their race seats but I have found from testing as the LFE gets much stronger bass signals that it can be too strong at times at its direct contact point. Jswilli maybe doesnt get this because he is using a chair rather than a thin race seat. So having the vibrations going to the seat via the undertray and the seat connection points will do what I think it should and produce an even but strong tactile response right through the seat rather than too strong directly where it is connected.

Im still awaiting "Ash" from Gamepod to send me out this component, been waiting 2-3 weeks now but they must be busy.
It uses the Cobra GT width so I will have to use spacers to connect it as my seat is standard width being 30mm narrower, this sholdnt be a problem using 15mm spacers at each side.

EDIT
The Gamepod/Buttkicker Evo tray has dispatched today


rise/jswilli
My Shift 2 arrived so will add in a report of my own findings tonight/tomorrow on the tactile. If theirs a lack of bass will hook one up to the Ultrabass Processor or the EQ but all that kind of testing has to be done for my own build yet. Early tests done a while back showed it to be beneficial though in adapting the tactile sound/vibtrations for this exact problem with different games/sources varied dynamics in audio.

Deffo like Ive been saying is mess around and try different things with various channels, its how you will discsover if you want or would like additional tactile over just a stereo/LFE combo.

Oh and as for EQs, come on Ive bought some of those Behringer 3102 from as little as £45 on ebay or other auctions. They will run two channels no probs.
Find the bargins lads, find the bargins....

 

[jswilli1]

Your correct Latte, I actually sit atop a pillow that is stuffed in my chair. Originally my chair was destined for the curb because my 4 rugrats would jump in it and they broke out the original springs. I took some 2X4's and put them in place of the springs and added the pillow for cushion. With the BK advance mounted inverted to the 2X4 and the clarkes mounted to the wood sides the 2X4's are attached to reproduces the tactile response very well. May have to see about picking up a copy of Shift2, I will start "Bargain" Shopping for an EQ to hook up to the Clark's.

 

[Mr Latte]

Thanks for confirming that about the seat and having added cushioning...

Shift 2 Early Audio Impression
Had a quick go with Shift 2 last night, The MAX setting for general audio has a major problem. The games intros and XP award/achievement screens have loads of bass while the ingame engines required me to really up the BASS on the amplifer. I set the General audio setting lower which seemed to helped with engine and other audio in the settings to MAX. So I was able to get decent tarmac and off track effects but the other cars seem to lack any real tactile when passing or in front.

Too early to judge, as only did a few quick races in the Focus ST.
Although it looks like in ways this will be better than GT5 audio/tactile but in other ways Shift 2 will be better than GT5. Both it seems will just have their good/bad factors.

Like many games the intro video just sends the Buttkicker crazy with it being far too loud. I wish PS3 had some form of audio normalizer, that balanced all audio output to a set level.


Cockpit Audio/Tactile
You can if you want compare this back to the old ideas on (Page 15)

Been doing some diagrams again of the speaker and tactile layouts. If counting all tactile, speakers and subs this looks like being:
21x Channels for the cockpit setup or if being more technical a 18.3 configuration. This is going to be a fun job working out all the wiring/cables not to mention the amount of power plugs for all the equipment. I dread to think how much electricty this will all use as well.

4x Left
4x Right
3x Centre
2x Left Surround
2x Right Surround
1x Back Surround (Mono)
1x Back Left Surround
1x Back Right Surround
3x LFE

To Give An Idea On Updated Layout:

I may have an issue like you jswilli that the Sony 1200ES may disable its own amplification when using PRE OUT.
So if thats the case then I may need to buy a 3rd Sony 1200ES. Using 2 for amplification and 1 only as a glorified 7.1 decoder.Then taking multiple connections from its PRE OUTS for the other amplifers to power the various tactile/subs and speakers. If doing this though I will not need to use the PS3 multi audio out feature. Importantly that allows me to keep the full 7.1 decoding to the highest quality rather than rely on using 5.1 upscaling via the amplifers DSP PL IIx.

From past experience it seems "Multichannel" inputs on amplifers do not allow any tuning of the sound, even bass or added DSP.
It seems to be just a direct to amplification "audible format" input of whatever the multichannel source is. Therefore the "Equalisation" or channels that will use EQ will do this between the "Multichannel Output of the original 7.1 from the PS3" and before the "Multichannel Input" of the seperate amplifers having the audio already adjusted/tweaked.

Additionally the Behringer EQs should allow me to split the "Low Sub Bass" for the L/C/R speaker channels. They include both standard and sub audio out. Im thinking this will let the smallish speakers I have act like satellite speakers and have their "midrange and low bass" go to the L/C/R subwoofers. It should give good control of the source audio sound and achieve a desired effect for each individual game if needed.

6x Behringer 3102 EQs are sitting waiting to be used.
Latest idea is to have every audio channel for the speakers having EQ control now, no compromise like before.
Also importantly control over the 3x TST209 Clarke Tactile units and the two Mini Buttkicker LFE under the seat for the L/R tactile.
This will ensure the Clarke 209s can balance with the speakers audio but give the desired tactile response and that the Mini LFE under the seat do not create too strong of an effect with some games which would be annoying as directly under my legs/knees.

6x Dual Channel Behringer EQs = 12 Inputs
7x Spk + 3x T209 + 2x Mini LFE = 12 Channels for EQ
Well Sorted!

If that doesnt quite seem like too much already.
Control of the LFE channel for the Dual 12" subs and the BKA 300 Buttkicker can be done via 2x Behringer Ultra Bass Pro - Sub Harmonic Processors.

Basically this means that the only audio/tactile components out of the 21x Channels that will not allow "User Set Control" will be the 3x L/C/R Aura Pro Tactile for the front of the cockpit.

Nothing too complicated then, lol.
Seems like a suitable plan, what you think lads?

 

[Mr Latte]

Well the GAMEPOD EVO BUTTKICKER seat base arrived.

Did something I didn't think of at all when ordering this. When building I noticed with some drilling it was going to be possible to bolt this to the original COBRA seat mounts and then attach the seat to those as normal. Happy as those are more stylish than the plain black side mounts built on the EVO seat base.

Spent more than 8 hours at this today but now have the larger BKA 300 Advance ButtKicker bolted to the underside of the new base. Decided to try having the L/R Mini LFE units also drilled to this metal base. Again hadn't planned to have these attached to this as noted above earlier with me being concerned I didnt want the LFE to drown out their seperate effects. I found by doing this instead I was now able to space them further apart than the way they were when connected directly to the seat. Now they can reverberate right through the metal uprights attaching the seat than just the underside. Gives a wider spread of tactile to front of the seat sides now.

Briefly only got to test it all but improvements have been made. The LFE really passes through the whole seat better now right upto behind my head. The seat does indeed like Jswilli found, become like sitting inside a speaker with the stereo TST209s emiting audio as well. As long as they are well balanced with your speaker volume settings they help enchance the surround sound. Of course still more tweaking and a few ideas can be added but it is great to see this important part of the project bringing really good results.

I want to increase the L/R tactile under my legs, having them attached to the new base certainly improves the tactile at each front side of the seat but I want more sensation of the L/R also delving further back under my thighs. Considering two 10"x2" wooden cuttings placed in the gap between the seat and the metal base. Then also gonna add some foam/sponge type material in between the Buttkickers and the metal base as a layer of cushioning. I believe the wooden inserts will provide a good contact for the tactile to be felt below my legs, so an update will follow on how this works out.

Id estimate that about 30% or more of tactile performance can come from position & installation.
Experimentation of these is crucial in getting the best results.

(iphone photos / sorry for quality)

 

[Mr Latte]

Hard to believe but this thread is approx a year old this week.
The original post could do with being updated as so much has changed regards the early ideas.

Okay so the seat is pretty much sorted regards the mounting as I have the GamePod seat attachments and a set of seat runners ready. Also the seat tactile is attached working really well and only needing tweaking to maximise the tactile it produces.

I will soon get to the point of having to arrange placement of the seat on the cockpit platform base and add in the subs then work on testing of all the audio components.

Just got another ebay, Sony 1200ES and have decided to use one as a slave or decoder. This will allow full multichannel outputs of all the 7.1 which when outputted can be split into additional sets of duplicate channels, equalised and amplified for each individual role, be it subwoofer,tactile or speaker as the diagram showed above. Using this with the already purchased amplification should give me the ability if wanted to include additional tactile units, possibly having L/C/R for the pedal and wheel sections rather than just one for both. Even with as crazy as this concept is I like the idea of having upgradability at a later stage. Having panning of effects of L/C/R tactile felt in the "Torso", "Legs" and "Arms" seems to make sense as a way for maximising immersion of L/C/R audio transitions compared to just feeling it say in the seat on its own.

I still find it hard to believe how Ive arrived at this point with so much AV/Hardware for a cockpit. However do realise that this cockpit will have the potential to easily adapt to also being a triple monitor PC gaming/entertainment system. If I decide to get back into PCs this would be a rather awesome triple screen PC gaming setup.

Amplifer Update:
3x 7.1 Sony 1200 ES are now purchased. (1 for Speakers / 1 for tactile / 1 for decoding)
1x 5.1 Sony STR 930 (subwoofers)
1x 6.1 Sony STR 940 (tactile)
1x Buttkicker Advance (BKA 300 tactile)

 

[lunarwolf]

omg that is a lot of kit Mr Latte - do you have a nuclear powerplant in the garden?

 

[nMd_pRo]

Just a question, hope i won't be rude for asking, and you won't have to answer if you don't want to, but how much have you spend just on your setup (without counting with your PS3 wheel, and baquet)?
It's not a critic, but everytime i come where i'm just "OMG" so i would love to know how much would i have to spend to have something similar.