Project R

  • Thread starter Mr Latte
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Well with chatting with some of the keen Buttkicker fans posted these images recently.

It's not everyday you take a drill to a £400+ race seat.
All went well though:

Cobra Sebring Pro Seat
Clarke Tactile TS209 = Rear Surround Tactile / Mono
2x Buttkicker Mini LFE = Left/Right Tactile
1x Buttkicker BKA 300 = LFE (will be attached to Gamepod Evo metal seat mount)

This is giving me pretty good effects and really liking the surround tactile effects which combine really well with the stereo and low bass effects of the LFE.

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So after testing the seat with the attached tactile shown I later made a few changes with temporarily adding two more tactile to the side. I found having Back Surround - Surround - Stereo gives a flow of tactile transition that is very smooth and immersive. With this you get sounds/tactile transferring from the very front of the seat to the middle/sides to the rear seat back or of course the opposite for cars overtaking your car. Stereo effects are of course felt transferring left - right with both the stereo and standard surround tactile. So the player in such a setup will feel horizontal and vertical tactile with LFE tactile bass anchored to the bottom going right through the whole seat. You cant buy a CHAIR like this or cockpit that I know of but as people get interested in tactile they will discover themselves what it can add to your enjoyment going beyond having just a single mono Buttkicker or tactile unit as compared to several working in stereo or surround configurations.

GT5 standard surround channels actually get audio as you approach a car, not just when it is alongside or behind as you would expect. So positioning two surround tactile at the side of the seat adds more tactile sensations compared to just using stereo-surround as the photos above have installed.

Ordered the last tactile units from USA this morning.
Its taken two years to get to this point with all the testing and new ideas.
Well beyond my original plans but that's just how things have went.

So the cockpit will now utilise 10x tactile units.

Seat: Rear = Back Surround / Mono = 1x Clarke Tactile T209
Side = Surround / Left & Right = 2x Clarke Tactile T209
Underneath = Stereo / Left & Right = 2x Buttkicker Mini LFE
Underneath = LFE .1 Bass = 1x Buttkicker BKA300

Front / Cockpit
Steering Column/Pedal Section = Left / Centre / Right = 3x Aura Pro
Pedals d.i.y brake rumble = Pedal Position Effected = Buttkicker Mini LFE
 
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You sir, have to much money on your hands. But that doesn't make you less awesome.

No worries though it is easy to see why it looks like that.
However if that was the case why would I of been at this for 2+ Years and would I of been buying components 2nd hand from ebay?

Yes it is a lot of money to spend on a cockpit, however we all have our own hobbies or interests. Only now is that seat finally having the tactile added to it and the seat was purchased in Apr/May 2009. So you can perhaps understand why I dont appreciate "rich boy" comments. Well Im maybe rich in ideas and passion for this but not finicialy rich.

When you dont drink nor smoke, its not hard to have some spare funds to play with.
Is it foolish to spend such, yeah I guess so in many peoples eyes it is but I dont waste several thousand on drink or smokes per year like many people might do. Besides the whole project is part experimental and hobbyist, the concept is to push ideas, have creativity and make it rather unique.

It has become an obsession though perhaps this is "My addiction" and if Im guilty of anything then yeah Id agree with that.
 
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No worries though it is easy to see why it looks like that.
However if that was the case why would I of been at this for 2+ Years and would I of been buying components 2nd hand from ebay?

Yes it is a lot of money to spend on a cockpit, however we all have our own hobbies or interests. Only now is that seat finally having the tactile added to it and the seat was purchased in Apr/May 2009. So you can perhaps understand why I dont appreciate "rich boy" comments. Well Im maybe rich in ideas and passion for this but not finicialy rich.

When you dont drink nor smoke, its not hard to have some spare funds to play with.
Is it foolish to spend such, yeah I guess so in many peoples eyes it is but I dont waste several thousand on drink or smokes per year like many people might do. Besides the whole project is part experimental and hobbyist, the concept is to push ideas, have creativity and make it rather unique.

It has become an obsession though perhaps this is "My addiction" and if Im guilty of anything then yeah Id agree with that.

We are of the same mindset, I see ;D I only drink at parties *coughnotpayingmyselfcough* XD
 
Well okay yeah I have the odd drink too, Im no killjoy.
Dont always drink coffee. :)

Lol xD I hate coffee =P But we should probably stop spamming. Or whatever you'd call this, it isn't really on-topic XD
 
Yeah it's just a passion for a hobby and what you are willing to spend on it. I love making stuff such as a computer inside a NES case and other stuff people don't normally make. The cockpit has expanded quite a bit since I last visited this thread. Looking good and can't wait to see the completion.
 
Hi Nick, if you guys get tempted a little regards tactile keep an eye on some of the threads here in the forums.

We were discussing recently how particulary in the USA prices for Tactile Units start from around $40 - $50.

For instance compare buying 2x Buttkicker Gamers at approx $260 or £250. Im trying to convince people to weigh up the options. For that money you can buy a cheap AV reciever with 4ohms and 100w that will power at least 5x Tactile units.

This could be bought with 2x Clarke T209 / Aura Pro or possibly 2x Mini LFE Buttkickers all giving not only better performance than the "Gamer" package but upgradeable with a proper AV reciever supporting the amplification for further tactile units to be bought later.
 
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Man, I applaud your efforts here. Like you, I am not rich by any means, but I choose to save here and there to put together the best components to make an overall killer setup no matter which hobby. The planning and build can be as much entertainment as using the completed setup.

I will be following this thread since the idea of surround tactile feedback is appealing. A single unit was what I had planned but the potential of what you are building interests me more and more. Thanks for taking the time to document the details of this build.
 
This looks actually Amazingly Awesome. I know you may be past the stage of ideas, but I am also looking for a high quality, real-car finish and I ended up thinking that either buying a Japanese wreckers "front cut" or "rear-cut" is the way to go. Obviously, Front cuts are always showered with glass and have horrifyingly rough edges, but you get the two seats, the whole cockpit, no windscreen and sometimes an engine, haha.
 
is your project done Mr. Latte? Can we have some more pictures of the full set up?

No as building has only began again and the main concern or next phase is to incorporate all the audio, drill/cut the base unit to attach the 5x subwoofers ensuring their position is correctly placed. Then to do tests with all the audio/tactile together. This is a major advancement though and finalises the audio/tactile components and having those all together. Not like the past 2 years were I have been doing tests with them on a temporary setup. I've not yet experienced all the tactile/subs/speakers going together and that can only be done when it's all installed. The project will never end if I continue to say "what if" regards the audio/tactile immersion. So getting it in place once and for all let's work continue on the design elements.

The metal frame, like people normally start with doing on a cockpit will be among the last things I do. Car wings needs sprayed etc, plastic cover for the base, the styling components, the lighting, gees lots to do yet before it's close to being finished.
 
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Well the order from "Parts Express" arrived really quickly.
Brillant service from them and the Fed Ex shipping.

Heres some quick snaps of the seat at home on a temporary setup.
Shows the side mounted TST209 used for the "Surround Tactile" and a view from the back showing these and the "Back Surround" and "LFE" tactile units.

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Such a configuration can be had for cheaper than you think.
Check out Parts Express with some great prices on tactile units like the "Clarke TST209" or "Aura Pro"

Any questions regards the seat/tactile, dont be shy to ask.
 
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Man everytime i look at that playseat i wish i could have one like those.

just a opinion, all the money you invested on it, don't you think you may have got a full motion sim instead?

I'm getting a backet to just don't know how much a BK gammer 2 would be useful or effective on it.
 
Well the order from "Parts Express" arrived really quickly.
Brillant service from them and the Fed Ex shipping.

Heres some quick snaps of the seat at home on a temporary setup.
Shows the side mounted TST209 used for the "Surround Tactile" and a view from the back showing these and the "Back Surround" and "LFE" tactile units.

Such a configuration can be had for cheaper than you think.
Check out Parts Express with some great prices on tactile units like the "Clarke TST209" or "Aura Pro"

Any questions regards the seat/tactile, dont be shy to ask.

Looking good Latte:tup: I haven't had a chance to check but if I use the analog out (RCA) from the PS3 does that also output optical out also? If so then I could use Optical and my Sony ES to drive the Clarkes on Left/Right channels and enjoy Dolby Digital out since it is processed in the PS3. So many choices at this point but I will be ordering the Clarke's tomorrow.

On a side note, I really enjoyed the '69 Ford GT40 (gulf) in GT5 today, really like the "gurgling" throaty exhaust notes. Since nobody was around I cranked up the Onkyo and enjoyed the BK. Can't wait for the Clarke's to be onboard, I kinda want to try NFS shift again as I liked taking the Shelby Mustang around Laguna Seca as the Dual Exhaust was music to my ears and seat!
 
Yeah the PS3 set to "Multi Output" mode will output the following at once:

5.1 over HDMI
2 Channel over Optical
2 Channel over RCA/PHONO

Looking forward to Shift 2 as well mate...
Keep the forums posted on your opinion of the T209s. Be nice to have others aware of their performance rather than me continuely harping on about them.

Oh and you should consider maybe 3 of them as you have the amplification, add in stereo and the surround.
Trust me its worth doing if you have the current funds available.
 
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As shown way back the 2x 12" Subwoofers that were planned for the LFE audio.

Some may recall me previously swaying with having those moved to either side of the seat and use a 15" at the back of the seat instead. Then of course that auction sale fell through and part of the problem was with the wooden base to be used only being approx 5-6" deep moving the 12" subs I had to the sides would of meant them stick up out of the base quite a lot needing a raised platform.

Might of looked silly so I had dropped the idea.
However about 2 months ago I came across a similar Sony Xplod sub but is a slim/shallow design only needing approx 3" of depth.

So that crazy part of me decided to go for them and getting a bargin in the end as they were never used by the original owner. This gave me 2x 10" subs to complement the L/R audio and to have that look I wanted with a sub each side of the seat. You see I also have a concern the smallish DAV speakers Im for using will of course lack any bass so these babies will fill that gap and of course complememt the tactile. In theory it all makes a good combination working like a sub/satellite type speaker configuration and utilising subs across the L/C/R and of course the 2x original back pair on the LFE to increase the depth perception of the tactile effects. However only time will tell if it works as planned.

Just about a week or so ago I found annother of these shallow subs however in 12" but matching design and I will use this for the Centre channel bass. Might try experimenting during the building phase to have this sub actually under the pedal platform to give the pedals some audible tactile vibrations coming from the Centre channels audio. What the heck its worth a try.The pedals will be on a tray that will be removable which is fixed to seat runners. So the position can easily be adapted and it will be possible to unscrew one platform, removing say the T500 pedals and replacing them with a 2nd tray containing the Fanatec CSP.

This is the main elements of this cockpit and combined with the surround tactile they are meant to give it the immersion and entertainment value that goes beyond a typical cockpit forsale.Yes many nice options out their with a fancy seat or fancy design but apart from positioning and comfort with nice looks what do they offer in immersion? Err I dont want motion, I want GT5 and other console games to be played in a fantastic way.

So creating a unique experience for the user but also one that will be controllable in allowing game audio to be adapted via all the EQ etc that will be included as well. GT5 has some really poor sounding cars for example. I believe I can change that with this combination yet at the same time ensure cars that do sound good from any game are not over powering. If it cant be controlled then the whole thing could be a mash of noise and crazy vibrations.


Heres a few images taken on phone a while ago.

10"
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12"
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Hope Im not all thumbs when it comes to the real work of getting these all in the build.
 
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Well I ordered the two Clarke TST209's tonight. I decided to wait on the 3rd for now, After I get these two dialed in then I will see about a center transducer then. :cheers:
 
Im sure your gonna like them...

Got another step closer to having all the equipment I need.
After missing out on 3 auctions in the past month I purchased the 2nd Sony 1200ES 7.1 amplifier tonight.

Keeping with the Sony theme as much as possible but was a cracker of an amp in it's day for the money.
 
I was (still am) a huge Sony fan but the Onkyo amplifier is far superior to the Sony ES line which is why I made the switch. my Onkyo 805 has the same amplifier section as their top of the line models and weighs in at 65lbs, the 705 amplifier weighs in at ~25lbs. Granted it has been a few years now but I have been really satisfied with the Onkyo. Quick question what gauge wire is on the clarke's, I believe the BK uses 14gauge speaker wire? I picked up 50' 14gauge wire along with speaker terminals for my chair today. I grabbed my ES receiver from storage today it is a STR-DA555ES.
 
I was always a Yamaha man when it came to AV Amps.
However sound quality over the years seems to diminish as more and more features get added.

Im not looking for exceptional audio quality although I am aiming for exceptionally good immersion. The speakers being attached to the cockpit wont give that high of a quality in audio terms and they will be quite closely placed within the 7ft x 5ft base the cockpit will use. Yet in fairness the amps and speakers purchased for this are "Award Winning" or respectable in their performance. Its kinda different for me as all this equipment is purposely being used with only the cockpit in mind not a setup dedicated for the purpose of a Home Cinema room.

I have to buy decent cable yet but like you I think I will use some nice quality stuff and also speaker terminals.

The 555 was a great amp if IIRC.
 
I couldn't locate my manual, in a box somewhere in the storage unit. I pulled it up online and 120W per channel is perfect. I will set the speakers to Large and It does have a built in EQ or somewhat of an EQ. I am already to go with this, just need the clarke's and let the tuning begin! 👍

I have a feeling a 3rd Clarke will be in the mail very soon......
 
Hmm, I set the Clark Units to be "small speakers" on my Yamaha amp. Should I set them to "large" ?

By setting them to Large it will pass the low frequencies to them which is what you want. Generally when set at small the low frequencies are diverted to the LFE channel and allows the speakers to act as your High's or reproduce the higher frequency range. Generally small is used for cube speakers like Bose, or any other speaker that does not have a woofer in it (cabinet speaker). Give it a shot I am sure you will "feel" a considerable difference.
 
That was a huge tip. The low freqs really come through now!! Thanks!! I played Bulletstorm with it on and the explosions totally startled me!
 
Bulletstorm was quite entertaining on tactile, as is of course some other shooters. Takes sometimes a little messing around with volumes as different games tend to have variations in their audio dynamics.

The Turtle Beach X41s are pretty decent but in quality still look a bit "boyish". Seen a pair recently for the first time and I still reckon those Sony surround phones I got on ebay last year covered earlier in the thread would be damn hard to beat for multichannel headphones. Not only that but they do look like quality hifi gear however do not have a mic.

New Models

One issue with the Clarkes is the sound they make unlike Buttkickers they are not silent so using headphones with them is not going to give a silent tactile experience.
 
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