PS3 General Discussion

[a6m5]

Understood. And, I didn't want that to sound like .....

And rightly so. You weren't doing anything wrong, and I'm not asking you to believe everything he says, either. I was just saying, if he asked me to "trust him" regarding some info on these consoles, personally, I'd give him a benefit of the doubt. You don't have to. I would.

You definitely should turn on the private messaging though. I wanted to PM this to you.

 

[Circle T]

Plus, a supply of games that look graphically better than any other XBox360 game which is stuck at standard def enhanced to 720.

Such as?? As far as I've read, aside from some launch games (like PGR3 I mentioned earlier), almost every 360 game is rendered at 720. Not scaled to 720p from 480i, or whatever "standard def" is to you. But, if you know of some 360 game that is just upscaled 480i, let me know, because I don't want to get ripped off with PS2 resolution on my 360.

"True HD" or native 1080p games for the PS3 are coming. Some, soon. In the future, I wont be surprised if most games for the PS3 are True HD.

I think you mean "Full HD", because "TrueHD" is a Dolby surround technology.

Sony "Full HD"

Dolby "TrueHD"

Really, this is basic knowledge so there's no need to act snippy about claims of native 1080p to anyone.

How is it snippy to just ask for facts?? I'm not trying to be snippy. But, all I want is for someone to correct me with facts. If I am saying that no launch games are internally rendered at 1080p, when in fact they officially are, then just tell me, and prove it. Thats all I want. I can accept being wrong. But, not when people just tell me to "trust them" or that its just "basic knowledge" everyone should know.

And again, people please understand, I didn't say that 1080p rendered games AREN'T ever coming. I very much believe they are. I just don't think they are at launch, thats all. Its my "not-so-basic knowledge" of the subject that makes me question it.

As was noted by the devs of Resistance (quoted above), it takes quite a lot to render a 1080p game. And, I just don't think many, if any, devs are going to hit that pinnacle right off the start. But again, if anyone has official word to the contrary, I'd love to see it. It would solve this discussion real quick.

CT

 

[Circle T]

And rightly so. You weren't doing anything wrong, and I'm not asking you to believe everything he says, either. I was just saying, if he asked me to "trust him" regarding some info on these consoles, personally, I'd give him a benefit of the doubt. You don't have to. I would.

I'm just a FACTS kind of guy. I will always admit it if I'm wrong. I just need hard facts to let me know.

Which is where my discussion of this comes from. I don't mean to drag this on, and get all lengthy about it, I just REALLY want to know. I'm a junky for information. So, really, if anyone does know for sure what games are, or are not, rendering at 1080p, and not just scaling, let me know. I want to know.

You definitely should turn on the private messaging though. I wanted to PM this to you.

Fixed the PM thing. I had the "PMs only from buddies" box checked by accident. Should be good now. Thanks for letting me know. 👍

CT

 

[Solid Lifters]

I'm just a FACTS kind of guy. I will always admit it if I'm wrong. I just need hard facts to let me know.

Which is where my discussion of this comes from. I don't mean to drag this on, and get all lengthy about it, I just REALLY want to know. I'm a junky for information. So, really, if anyone does know for sure what games are, or are not, rendering at 1080p, and not just scaling, let me know. I want to know.

Fixed the PM thing. I had the "PMs only from buddies" box checked by accident. Should be good now. Thanks for letting me know. 👍

CT

Yes, you were a bit snippy. You'll make more friends here if you don't act that way. Also, learn to use the multi quote button. Multi posting is not necessary and will get you a warning. Also, why did you include the one time I used True HD instead of Full HD and then posted it way after I made my correction? Anybody reading my post could read what I meant.

Oh, and the XBox360 uses a DVD player with max resolution to 576, which is NOT HD. If you know so otherwise, please post me what disc player it uses and the specs 'cause I would love to read them. Therefor, all XBox360 games from the DVD drive are limited to standard def resolutions. You'll have to wait for downloaded games or the HD-DVD player for HD stuff.

 

[Raitziger]

btw my guess for presenter at http://www.playb3yond.com/ is Lance Henriksen.

 

[DuckRacer]

And it's not hard to believe. Konami already has a 1080p beta of MGS4, however, I honestly don't think they'll use it.

I hope you're right.

 

[Tenacious D]

While we're on the subject of high definition graphics, I'm one of the few over there who have said from the start that I'd prefer games with more graphical detail and a solid 60fps at 720p or 768p than less and 30fos at 1080p, or 1080i. Most of the kids demand everything at 1080p no matter what, but some of us know the pitfalls of learning to harness a new architecture, especially one as radically different as the Cell Broadband Engine.

I do want to see most games running at 1080p@60fps, but 720p is plenty crisp to me. I play video games on my HD TV at 480i still, lazy about getting component cables, plus many games don't play at higher resolution anyway, and they still look superb.

 

[KENJIusa]

PS3 Tutorials, very sweet, check it out:tup: 👍 👍

Love the buttons, love the buttons.

http://www.psm3mag.com/page/psm3?entry=ps3_movies_here

 

[opendriver]

If you are going to camp out, I suggest you read this

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

If you are going to camp out, I suggest you read this

This is going to reveal me as a real cork dork... but when I saw the first pic, the first thing I noticed was that the guy sitting down openning a bottle of wine has excellent taste for someone who camps out on the street to buy a game console... that's a bottle of Ravenswood's Vintners Blend Zinfandel. 👍

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

I'm just a FACTS kind of guy. I will always admit it if I'm wrong. I just need hard facts to let me know.

Which is where my discussion of this comes from. I don't mean to drag this on, and get all lengthy about it, I just REALLY want to know. I'm a junky for information. So, really, if anyone does know for sure what games are, or are not, rendering at 1080p, and not just scaling, let me know. I want to know.

Fixed the PM thing. I had the "PMs only from buddies" box checked by accident. Should be good now. Thanks for letting me know. 👍

CT

Full Auto 2
NBA07
Lair
Virtua Tennis
GT: HD
MGS4

So, I know what you're going to say, you're going to say "where are all the games that do 1080p NOW!? Those games are far off, they couldn't have tapped out the potential yet".

Okay, maybe the concept of *time* is a little lost on you.

These games are all *native* 1080p, and regardless of their release date, they are running in native (read, native means the resolution it's designed to run and render at) 1080p. Since they are running in native 1080p NOW...then that means that clearly THESE DEVELOPERS HAVE DONE IT ALREADY.

So, I really don't see why you even bother bringing up release dates, when betas of these games ALREADY are running in 1080p...it's pointless to ask for a release date to "prove" your point simply because you won't admit your skepticism is wrong.

 

[Solid Lifters]

This is going to reveal me as a real cork dork... but when I saw the first pic, the first thing I noticed was that the guy sitting down openning a bottle of wine has excellent taste for someone who camps out on the street to buy a game console... that's a bottle of Ravenswood's Vintners Blend Zinfandel. 👍

Yeah, both of you are dorks.

Wine to a launch party; seems appropriate.

Hey, it's supposed to be fun, right? I've already tried it, so no need for me to do it again. But, if you people are going, bring a camera and take some pics.

 

[LaBounti]

Marvel Ultimate alliance will be 1080p, unless they were not telling the truth at Sony's gamer's day.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Isn't it pretty much illegal to just drink your wine out on the curb like that, esp at a store? I know you can't do it here in the wonderful flat lands of Kansas.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Yea, I forgot about that title Labounti, good call.

Still, doesn't cover the fact that Circle T is being a bit...well, he's trying to bend words to support his "arguement". It's kinda ridiculous to say that there aren't any real 1080p games right now...

 

[Circle T]

Yes, you were a bit snippy.

As I said before, it wasn't meant to be like that, and I'm sorry it came across that way. Its not my intent to come in here and get all crabby. I'm just asking that people back up what they say. Nothing more. We can all make claims of things. But, unless you have actual facts to back up those claims, it really means nothing. Thats all I'm after. Facts.

Also, why did you include the one time I used True HD instead of Full HD and then posted it way after I made my correction? Anybody reading my post could read what I meant.

Well, if you look at what the text was in my quote of you, its easy to see that I quoted it, and was then typing my post as you corrected it. Again, not meant to be smart ass. I just literally thought you might have gotten the two mixed up. I wasn't trying to call you out on a typo kind of thing.

Oh, and the XBox360 uses a DVD player with max resolution to 576, which is NOT HD. If you know so otherwise, please post me what disc player it uses and the specs 'cause I would love to read them. Therefor, all XBox360 games from the DVD drive are limited to standard def resolutions. You'll have to wait for downloaded games or the HD-DVD player for HD stuff.

See, that isn't correct. If all we were talking about was movies, then you'd be very correct. But, games are not movies, and they are not handled the same way. By your logic, we shouldn't be able to play PC games at anything higher than 480p either, but we all know that ISN'T the case, with games now easily played at 2560x1600 resolution if you have the hardware to push it.

When watching a movie, the data on the disc is already rendered as a movie file ready to be read by the player. You start the player, and it starts reading that movie file off the disc. And yes, in that mode, DVD is limited to basically 480p resolution.

But, games are not done this way. A game is not put on the disc as a pre-rendered scene. The data on a DVD game disc, unlike DVD movies, is just raw data. That data will be game models, textures, sounds, AI algorithms, and things like that. The console then takes all that data, combines it with the input that you are giving it, and spits out a rendered scene.

With a movie, everything, from the video to the sound, is already rendered and ready to go. It just gets streamed off the disc, and sent to your TV. But games, be them on DVD, Blu-Ray, CD or cartridges, is just raw data, that the console will take, calculate and spit out as an interactive scene.

So no, the Xbox 360 is NOT limited to 480p rendering and then upscaling to 720p or 1080i for output. For movies, yes, all you will get is 480p max, because that is the max resolution of the DVD Mpeg-2 spec. But with games, they are only limited by the DVD format in how much data they can get on a disc. And then, by how much processing power they can get out of the machine to calculate that data.

CT

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Yeah, both of you are dorks.

Wine to a launch party; seems appropriate.

A bottle of Crystal perhaps? Or for more refined tastes...

a bottle of 1990 Veuve Clicquot La Grande Dame. (however it does cost more than a PS3, so maybe not)

Hey, it's supposed to be fun, right? I've already tried it, so no need for me to do it again. But, if you people are going, bring a camera and take some pics.

That article reminded me of a very funny DVD I saw earlier in the year called Star Wait, which was a documentary that followed the exploits of some dedicated www.liningup.net members waiting for the openning of the second wave of Star Wars films. It's worth cheching out, especially the multiple commentary tracks... which are often times quite funny to listen to.

EDIT:

Isn't it pretty much illegal to just drink your wine out on the curb like that, esp at a store? I know you can't do it here in the wonderful flat lands of Kansas.

It varies from county to county, and law makers can also allow specific areas, even specific streets, where liquor can be consumed on public land. The most famous place this is allowed is of course the French Quarter in New Orleans... but I don't think you'll find many there drinking wine, let alone quality wine. The drink of choice down there is ironically the Hurricane made famous by Pat O'Brien's on St. Peter, near the square.

 

[Circle T]

Okay, maybe the concept of *time* is a little lost on you.

No, its not. If you read what I've said fully, you will clearly see that I have said many times I don't doubt that 1080p rendered games are coming. And, given your list, they are. I don't dispute that.

So, I really don't see why you even bother bringing up release dates, when betas of these games ALREADY are running in 1080p...it's pointless to ask for a release date to "prove" your point simply because you won't admit your skepticism is wrong.

So, when Insomniac has to back Resistance down to 720p to get it running well, that doesn't mean anything?? There is probably all sorts of things out there with regards to betas. Hell, PD could have a beta of GT:HD running at 4k resolution. That doesn't mean its running well, or that it will get release at that res.

CT

 

[Circle T]

Still, doesn't cover the fact that Circle T is being a bit...well, he's trying to bend words to support his "arguement". It's kinda ridiculous to say that there aren't any real 1080p games right now...

Here, let me just say it once, real clear, so you can see it, and be done with it...

I don't doubt there are games coming that will render at 1080p. And, I don't doubt that there are devs with games doing that RIGHT NOW. My only concern is, I just don't think we will see those games for a while. Thats it. I know they are coming, and I know they are probably already out there in dev cycle. But, I just doubt there are any games launching with it RIGHT NOW, at the start of the consoles life.

Ok?? I'm not doubting the PS3, or the capability of the devs to get to that number. But, like was confirmed by the Resistance devs, its not an easy feat to get there. So, some of these games running 1080p currently, that aren't out yet, might not actually ship at that resolution.

CT

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

I don't doubt there are games coming that will render at 1080p. And, I don't doubt that there are devs with games doing that RIGHT NOW. My only concern is, I just don't think we will see those games for a while. Thats it. I know they are coming, and I know they are probably already out there in dev cycle. But, I just doubt there are any games launching with it RIGHT NOW, at the start of the consoles life.

CT

Full Auto 2
NBA07
Marvel Ultimate Alliance
Ridge Racer 7

Those four titles are all launch titles, all rendered, NATIVELY, at 1080p. NOW. THey'll release NOW. ON LAUNCH.


Also, Resistance DID run well at 1080p, in fact, OPM had a preview of it in 1080p, and talked about it a few times in their podcast. Fact was, however, that 1080p did *not* offer the best online performance from long distances (i.e. coast to coast) and was the main cause that the game was dropped back down to 1080p. It was too taxing on the hardware to render at that resolution, maintain all of the particle effects, *and* connect to 39 other players online.

Still, if developers are hitting these sort of milestones NOW, TODAY, with games and builds running in 1080p, there is nothing left but IMPROVEMENT as they learn to unlock more power, and when the games release, they will be improved. Need I look at MotorStorm as an example? It has made HUGE leaps in it's what, 6 months since we saw it at E3? Granted, the game is not 1080p, but if IT can make GIANT leaps in quality in Six months, imagine what a game already running in 1080p (lair) will do in another YEARS time of development.

Please, at least use a little bit of logic (not saying you don't have it, but you seem to be turning your cheek to this info) and come to decent conclusions, not just opinions loosely based on fact (which, I might add aren't solid facts).

 

[Circle T]

Please, at least use a little bit of logic (not saying you don't have it, but you seem to be turning your cheek to this info) and come to decent conclusions, not just opinions loosely based on fact (which, I might add aren't solid facts).

But, how is it that you aren't just telling me opinion, loosely based on facts?? Once more, might I ask where you got this "factual" info?? I've asked a few times, but no one seems to be able to give me a link to anything confirming any of this. Like I said before, if there are launch games out there currently 1080p rendered, then I'm all for it. I'll gladly say I was wrong with my skeptical stance on this. But, a random person in a random internet forum, no offense, doesn't flow with loads of credibility.

And, I'm not "turning my cheek" to anything, because no one has yet to give me any hard facts to turn away from. Just tell me where you read this, what podcast you heard it on, or whatever, so I can see it myself. Thats all I'm asking, and all I've BEEN asking for the whole time. I can't read everything myself, because I'd be sitting here for days trying to keep up with everything concerning the PS3 launch. Just hook me up with a link or two to something, ANYTHING, and I'll be happy.

And, just to preempt any comments to the contrary, I don't mean for any of this to come across as stubborn indifference. Think of it like a school paper. Quote your sources. I want to believe that the PS3 has launch games rendered in 1080p. Because, like you said, if they can do it now, think of what they can accomplish down the road. But, I've just not personally read anything confirming it. You apparently have, so share the knowledge man.
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Back more on topic, I had a thought earlier today. If we are to theoretically be able to upgrade the HDD on the PS3, how is it we are going to get the data on the current one onto the new one?? I know this is a bit premature, given the console isn't even out. I just didn't know if anyone had any ideas on how that might work.

Because of my lack of need for wifi or the flash card reader, I'm more inclined to just buy the $500 PS3. And, if I can just upgrade the HDD later on, that would be just fine by me. I would end up with a PS3 with just the features I want and need, and a bigger drive than the $600 unit comes with, for roughly the same cost. Anyone know how that process might work??

CT

 

[DuckRacer]

Back more on topic, I had a thought earlier today. If we are to theoretically be able to upgrade the HDD on the PS3, how is it we are going to get the data on the current one onto the new one?? I know this is a bit premature, given the console isn't even out. I just didn't know if anyone had any ideas on how that might work.

One way it may work is to transfer all the data to, say, an iPod, and transfer it back to the new HDD.

 

[Circle T]

One way it may work is to transfer all the data to, say, an iPod, and transfer it back to the new HDD.

Yea, that was one thought I had. An external USB drive could work. I guess it also depends on just HOW MUCH stuff the HDD comes installed with, and how much game saves and user data takes up. If its anything like the 360, we are looking at many GBs of data. And, that won't easily fit on a smaller thumb-style drive, requiring more of an external USB HDD.

CT

 

[Solid Lifters]

One way it may work is to transfer all the data to, say, an iPod, and transfer it back to the new HDD.

Nah, we could probably download it from Sony.

I don't see any problems.

 

[DuckRacer]

Nah, we could probably download it from Sony.

I don't see any problems.

So you're thinking we can download our personal photos, videos, game saves, etc, from Sony.

 

[Circle T]

Nah, we could probably download it from Sony.

I don't see any problems.

I'm more concerned with my game saves, user data, downloaded content, and other data you might have on there (pics, movies, music, Linux stuff). Not the firmware and generic PS3 hardware data. But, that does raise a good question. If you take out the original HDD and put in a new one, would the PS3 have any way of even turning on to reapply the firmware?? It stands to reason that all that stuff will be stored on the HDD. And if that info isn't there anymore, what would it use??

CT

---Damn, you beat me to it Duck---

 

[DuckRacer]

I'm more concerned with my game saves, user data, downloaded content, and other data you might have on there (pics, movies, music, Linux stuff). Not the firmware and generic PS3 hardware data. But, that does raise a good question. If you take out the original HDD and put in a new one, would the PS3 have any way of even turning on to reapply the firmware?? It stands to reason that all that stuff will be stored on the HDD. And if that info isn't there anymore, what would it use??

CT

---Damn, you beat me to it Duck---

The PSP can still keep it's firmware and settings, even when I swapped in my new 2GB memory stick. I think those types of settings are written in the hardware, and thus do not need a storage medium like a Memory Stick, HDD, etc.

 

[Circle T]

The PSP can still keep it's firmware and settings, even when I swapped in my new 2GB memory stick. I think those types of settings are written in the hardware, and thus do not need a storage medium like a Memory Stick, HDD, etc.

Then, that brings us to our next question that needs answering for this. Does the PS3 hold its firmware on an internal flash ROM, like the PSP, or on the HDD. If it does in fact store it on an internal ROM, then this process would be quite a bit easier. That is, aside from all of OUR data that needs to get back on the new HDD.

CT

 

[Solid Lifters]

So you're thinking we can download our personal photos, videos, game saves, etc, from Sony.

That stuff can go on memory cards or external HDD. I'm talking about the Sony stuff on the HDD.

 

[LaBounti]

Just because Resistance doesnt run at 1080p because of whatever reason doesnt mean other games can/will have the same issues. Why?

Not all games use the same ingame engine. Not all games use the same graphical resourses. Not all games use shaders the same way. Not all games are the same. Not all games are like Resistance. PGR3 runs at 30fps, Ridge Racer 6 runs at 60, Not the same games, not the same engine. GT-HD will run at 1080p without a hitch.