PS3 General Discussion

[Digital-Nitrate]

How do you [know?] what kind of tv you have and what it supports?

The TV's specifications. They should be listed in the owner's manual. If you don't have it, look on the back of the TV to get the model number, and search on google and you'll likely find the specs very quickly. If you need help, feel free to send me the make and model and I'll try and get that info for you.

Keep in mind, if you have anything but a CRT, or a monitor without a graphic processor, then it will scale what ever incoming signals it accepts to the native resolution of the display. Also, while most 720p/766p displays will accept a 1080i signal, this is often not advised as it will still have to downscale the signal, and because it is interlaced, if it does not properly deinterlace the signal first, it will result in an inferior image to that of one from a 720p source.

BTW: Ideally, you want to use a digital connection (DVI, HDMI) to avoid any DIGITAL (PS3) -> ANALOG (VGA, component, composite) -> DIGITAL (non-CRT TV) conversion artifacts. HDMI offers some additional improvements as well making it the ideal solution for displays that can take advanatge of it. 👍

 

[Jedi2016]

Your recent post is almost a direct opposite and contradicts nearly everything you said before - most of which was completely untrue.

1) I believe that Sony themselves at the time insinuated that the PS3 had no hardware scaler. That was their excuse for not having the feature available out of the box. They are the ones that later changed their minds, revealing that the system did, in fact, have some form of scaler in it, but that devs were currently not using it.

2) In ALL of those discussions I was talking about games, not movies. Specifically, the ability of a game to be rendered at 720p and upscaled to 1080i. Or vice versa. I never once mentioned DVDs in any of those arguments. Not. Once.

3) DVD upscaling can easily be done by software and does not require hardware. My computer doesn't have a hardware scaler in it, and I can "upscale" movies all damn day without blinking. And my computer is downright weak, having only a tiny fraction of the power as that black box I have downstairs.

You're confusing two completely different points. After this update, 720p games will still be locked at 720p, and Blu-ray will still be locked at 1080i/p. You'll see.

I do still plan on doing an active comparison of this feature once it's added. I encourage others to do the same, most especially those that claim it's a huge benefit. I recommend we compare the same films... to see how one setup displays a particular film versus another setup. For my tests so far, I've been using Unforgiven, although I also have a double-dip of Superman Returns, as I'd still like to use Blu-ray in that argument because of the "upscaling = hi-def" argument.

When is this supposed to be added, anyway? In the big March update, or just some undisclosed "eventually" date?

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

1) I believe that Sony themselves at the time insinuated that the PS3 had no hardware scaler. That was their excuse for not having the feature available out of the box.

Cite the source from Sony if you can.

2) In ALL of those discussions I was talking about games, not movies. Specifically, the ability of a game to be rendered at 720p and upscaled to 1080i. Or vice versa. I never once mentioned DVDs in any of those arguments. Not. Once.

Red Herring. Your quotes speak for themselves. You said the PS3 has no scaler and that it was a major design flaw. Both of which you now claim you never said - and both of which are not true.

3) DVD upscaling can easily be done by software and does not require hardware. My computer doesn't have a hardware scaler in it, and I can "upscale" movies all damn day without blinking. And my computer is downright weak, having only a tiny fraction of the power as that black box I have downstairs.

This is absolute non sense. Scaling cannot be done without hardware or software. Scalers are specialized chips [HARDWARE], which almost all video cards/processors [HARDWARE] include in their design. Software is what is used to communicate with and control the scaler/video processor.


Jedi... this is all terribly frustrating. I appreciate your obvious enthusiasm and interest in video technology, and it's not like everything you say is a lie, but you do an incredible disservice to everyone to continue to post things as if they were undisputable facts when in fact often the case they are not.

 

[opendriver]

My PS3 just went up in value:

http://www.gamedrift.com/articles.php?a=293

I getting a bigger HDD soon too

 

[Jedi2016]

Jedi... this is all terribly frustrating. I appreciate your obvious enthusiasm and interest in video technology, and it's not like everything you say is a lie, but you do an incredible disservice to everyone to continue to post things as if they were undisputable facts when in fact often the case they are not.

Hardly. When I said the comments about "no scaler" were made, that's what EVERYBODY ON THE INTERNET BELIEVED at the time. It's hardly as if I were the only one saying it. Put the blame on the thousands of others, including all those technology-review sites that complained about it.

In regards to the benefit of upscaling, I think I may have to eat my words with a side of crow. I'll do some more digging and take some photos later today. I just popped Unforgiven into my X360, which is upscaling to 1080p through VGA, and I was surprised that I did see a difference. Unfortunately, with only a single DVD of the film, I can't do a side-by-side comparison between it and my DVD player. It was also displaying the film differently, as my DVD player overscans, which may have contributed to the apparently "sharper" image I was seeing. We'll have to see what happens when the PS3 gets it and whether there's any benefit to be had from that machine over another.

Despite the first-glance benefit, I can't use the 360 as a movie-watching device because of the damn noise. That's why I never tried it before now.

 

[Dead_Poetic]

Despite the first-glance benefit, I can't use the 360 as a movie-watching device because of the damn noise. That's why I never tried it before now.

by noise, do you mean how loud the xbox 360 is? Is it really that loud?

And opendriver, i doubt that your ps3 will be any more valuble now. Mainly because if someone wanted the 20 gig, but had to pay more for it, they would most likely just go for the 60 gig.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

My PS3 just went up in value:

http://www.gamedrift.com/articles.php?a=293

However...

For now, we here at GameDrift are going to chalk this one up as a rumor only.

That said, I'd love to know what kind of person would supposedly buy a 20GB PS3 on eBay for the same amount of money that they could have bought a 60GB PS3 for. I find that, and a few other statements made by the author to be dubious at best. For instance...

the 60 gig models are still sitting on nearly every major retailer’s shelves collecting dust.

Apparently he hasn't been tracking 60GB PS3 sales, and doesn't understand the concept of re-stocking.

I will say the theory that Sony may be discontinuing the 20GB PS3 is interesting though, and possibly not all that unexpected. From what I saw locally and from eBay listings, the 20GB version wasn't selling nearly as well as the 60GB. Locally, and from reading reports from others, the 20GB versions were on store shelves, while people were getting rain checks for the 60GB version, and on eBay, the 60GB versions were selling for a lot more than the 20GB versions.

Hardly. When I said the comments about "no scaler" were made, that's what EVERYBODY ON THE INTERNET BELIEVED at the time. It's hardly as if I were the only one saying it. Put the blame on the thousands of others, including all those technology-review sites that complained about it.

First of all, believing and knowing for a fact are two different things. Second of all, not EVERYBODY ON THE INTERNET BELIEVED that to be true. I'm on the internet, and on this forum, and I clearly stated the opposite on November 17 (quoted earlier) - which you obviously ignored.

However, let us pretend you meant "everybody on the internet but you [D-N] believed it to be true”, that's equally absurd, as you clearly do not even know what everybody else believes. I bet you cannot even show any evidence that the majority of people on GTP alone believed that to be true.

In fact, I'd love for you to show me quotes from just 1% of the GTP members saying they believe the PS3 doesn't have a scaler.

BTW: Gross exaggerations only make your arguments that much less meaningful.

Finally, even if your sources are wrong, that doesn't excuse you from not only posting false information, but from lying about it later. 👎

STOP making false statements! Either do better research, or make it clear that the information you are providing is speculative only.

Here is some valuable advice, before passing on information you gather from the internet, do some actual fact checking. If not, then when you pass on this information, make it clear to everyone where the source of that information was from and not present it like it is simply a matter of fact. Had you done that, you would have avoided this situation all together.









🤬

 

[Jedi2016]

by noise, do you mean how loud the xbox 360 is? Is it really that loud?

The noise of the disc drive is negligible at DVD playback speeds, but even when idle the system's internal fans make a constant whiiiiirrrrrrrrrr sound that's incredibly distracting when trying to watch a movie. It's drowned out easily enough during games, but most movies (even the big action-packed ones) have a lot of quiet scenes, during which the noise is easily heard.

The PS3, on the other hand.. even during quiet scenes, you have to specifically listen for it in order to hear it. And the noise it makes is more from the simple movement of air than the sound of the fan (more of a quiet "whoosh" than a "whir").

That's actually a dealbreaker for me when it comes to multi-console games. If the two versions of a game are nearly identical, I'm more likely to choose the PS3 version simply because it's so quiet.

Some people will argue that the X360 isn't "all that loud". I don't know if I'm just more discerning in hearing the noise, or if there's a large variance in noise from console to console. But I know that my X360 is loud. Too loud for movie-watching.

 

[Jedi2016]

DN: I'm done arguing about the scaler. My argument now is simply whether DVD upscaling is really such a godly improvment as to make people so excited about it as they're getting.

Damn double-posting forum...

 

[Pako]

The noise of the disc drive is negligible at DVD playback speeds, but even when idle the system's internal fans make a constant whiiiiirrrrrrrrrr sound that's incredibly distracting when trying to watch a movie. It's drowned out easily enough during games, but most movies (even the big action-packed ones) have a lot of quiet scenes, during which the noise is easily heard.

The PS3, on the other hand.. even during quiet scenes, you have to specifically listen for it in order to hear it. And the noise it makes is more from the simple movement of air than the sound of the fan (more of a quiet "whoosh" than a "whir").

That's actually a dealbreaker for me when it comes to multi-console games. If the two versions of a game are nearly identical, I'm more likely to choose the PS3 version simply because it's so quiet.

Some people will argue that the X360 isn't "all that loud". I don't know if I'm just more discerning in hearing the noise, or if there's a large variance in noise from console to console. But I know that my X360 is loud. Too loud for movie-watching.

I would agree, that of the two consoles, the 360 is by far the louder of the two....but when watching movies or during game play, the Stereo is usually turned up to where I can't hear either one....so it doesn't really effect me.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

About this specific issue, adding emulation ability to EE-equipped PS3s may require more coding work than they're willing to do, depending on how they go about it. They have three options, as I see it. 1) They ignore it entirely based on the idea that EE-equipped PS3s can already play all PS1/2 games. 2) They add a "switch" function to the XMB's System Options to turn the EE on or off (auto-set and locked to OFF for the "new" PS3s), or 3) They make the code smart enough to recognize a emulator-compatible game when it's inserted, and it automatically plays it that way, while using the EE to play non-compatible games. The third option, while the best, is also the most complex, making it the most expensive. From a business perspective, that makes it the least likely choice to actually happen.

Actually the 3rd choice would be very easy to "make happen". I can whip up a text file with every PS1 and PS2 game available, and it will probably be at most, IF THAT, 1MB. That's all of them. In the next firmware update, Sony could include an index file of all supported emulated games, it would take roughly 2 seconds, if that, to find if the game was compatible or not, and then run either the emulator, or the EE and GS.

You have taken that so far out of context, and made it into an issue that it could never possibly be. It takes very little to "make the code smart enough". Seriously, that was a bit ridiculous.

 

[Jedi2016]

My point was that it doesn't seem to be that easy for the PS3 to determine the name of a game based on simply reading the disc. Otherwise, they'd show up differently than "Playstation 2 Format Game" on the XMB. If it were as easy as simply reading a header file, shouldn't be the XMB say something like "God of War" or "Gran Turismo 4"?

I would imagine the system would have to begin actually playing the game before it can determine what it is. Then they would have to code the system so it can automatically switch to the emulator if it's available.

Believe me, there's more to programming something than just making a text file with a bunch of names. That part isn't hard. What's hard is getting the system to adjust itself automatically according to that list. And small changes to a program aren't as easy as you think, either. We had a bit of a fiasco at work a few weeks ago, when we requested a program change. In fact, the change we requested was smaller than the one you're talking about for PS3.. a simple change in text within a small file somewhere could "theoretically" have done it (specifically, we asked the programmers to change the value range for a motherboard's heath statistics.. a simple change of text, right?). Fixing that problem caused something else to break, another feature that simply stopped working altogether. Fixing that problem caused something else to break. All in all, it took them about three weeks to finally get it all in working order, and I'm just waiting to find out what else is broken as a result of their latest fix. All of that from what I imagined was as simple as altering some numbers within a text file. I was wrong.

Bottom line, it's NOT going to be that simple for them.

 

[DuckRacer]

My PS3 just went up in value:

http://www.gamedrift.com/articles.php?a=293

I getting a bigger HDD soon too

No, it didn't.

by noise, do you mean how loud the xbox 360 is? Is it really that loud?

When playing DVDs, there's a constant humming. Not very loud, per se, but definitely distracting.

Personally, I wouldn't use the 360 as a DVD player if only for its clunky interface.

Locally, and from reading reports from others, the 20GB versions were on store shelves,

Really? From what I've heard, 20GBs have been nowhere to be found, not sitting on shelves.

and on eBay, the 60GB versions were selling for a lot more than the 20GB versions.

Agreed. Proof of this is me buying my 20GB with only $30 markup.

 

[LaBounti]

Bottom line, it's NOT going to be that simple for them.

Sure it will. It never dawned on you that Ps1/Ps2 Emulation could have its own executable that shows up in the XMB under game? This exe. doesn't care or know if the EE/GS exists, it just attempts to run the game and if it can't it takes you back to the XMB. For launch systems you just click on the game like normal to bypass emulation, for new systems it just runs the PS1/2 emulator. The firmware will know the difference not the emulator.

Just my guess.

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Really? From what I've heard, 20GBs have been nowhere to be found, not sitting on shelves.

I was referring to before this apparent drop in supply, when both versions were being shipped, from my observations and those that I had read the 60GB versions were selling out, while the 20GB were more easily available - despite Sony shipping fewer 20GB versions. However, this is only my own personal observation.

Of course, without knowing exactly how many of each version was shipped to each retailer and the sales rate at each of those retailers for both systems, all we can do is speculate.

Although a very good indicator to help determine the demand for each system is it's resale value, and despite Sony shipping far more 60GB versions than 20GB, the 60GB versions were for a time selling on eBay for well over $100 more than the 20GB version. If the demand for the 20GB version was higher, the difference would be at or possibly even less than $100, but not by much.

After all, at some point one has to say if I can get a 60GB version for only a little more than a 20GB version then why bother with the 20GB. In fact, I suspect that's what probably drove 60GB sales in the first place, as $100 (less than the cost of two games) isn't that much in the long term.

Sony may also be wanting to drop the $500 PS3 now that it is releasing a $500 standalone Blu-ray player. Although I would still recommend anyone who wants a great Blu-ray player to get either PS3.

I remind friends that while the PS3 may only cost as little as $500, it's got around $800 worth of equipment (parts cost only), which if not sold at a loss and priced like typical A/V gear it would be priced at about $2,400.

Unfortunately, for many of my fellow HT enthusiasts, they still have a hang-up about using a "game console" as a Blu-ray player, but I think over time they'll realize the advantages.

One thing that really makes me happy with the PS3 as a player is that unlike a standalone player with a very limited user base, instead of constantly upgrading the firmware and improving the player's functionality, standalone players usually just get dropped every 12 months and replaced with a new one. Clearly Sony wants and needs the PS3 to have a very long life cycle by comparison (as they need to sell a lot of software to make up for the loss they take on the hardware), and part of sustaining that lifecycle is designing and building a product with advanced hardware, then tweaking it over time with firmware updates.

Basically, as an owner of a PS3, not only did I get a very advanced piece of A/V gear, but it also has come with a great deal of consumer support, both from fellow users with useful tips, and from Sony with much valued firmware updates, these are things I cannot say I would have gotten much of from any standalone player.

 

[Tornado]

About the price difference between the PS3 models, I've heard some very strong arguments that make said price differences seem a lot larger than they are given credit. The difference between the 20 and 60 gig PS3's is far less than the difference between the Premium and Base XBox 360, for example, so I find it rather surprising that the 20 gig sales are so low.
That being said, when I get my PS3 (sometime around June, I'm thinking), I will not even consider getting a 20 gig model, but that is just because I am eccentric.

 

[DuckRacer]

About the price difference between the PS3 models, I've heard some very strong arguments that make said price differences seem a lot larger than they are given credit. The difference between the 20 and 60 gig PS3's is far less than the difference between the Premium and Base XBox 360, for example, so I find it rather surprising that the 20 gig sales are so low.

Differences between both Core X360 and Premium X360:

• 20GB HDD
• Wireless controller
• Ethernet cable
• Chrome Trim

Differences between 20GB PS3 and 60GB PS3:

• 40GB more HDD space
• Wi-Fi
• Card Readers
• Chrome Trim

Now, I don't know about you, but the PS3 SKUs have larger differences. With the 360, you can just add in the stuff easily if you choose to do so (except the chrome, but that doesn't matter). With the PS3, while you can upgrade the HDD far and beyond what the 60GB offers, there's no way for the card readers to be added in without being external. And with the Wi-Fi... you'd be very hard pressed to find something that should work.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

My point was that it doesn't seem to be that easy for the PS3 to determine the name of a game based on simply reading the disc. Otherwise, they'd show up differently than "Playstation 2 Format Game" on the XMB. If it were as easy as simply reading a header file, shouldn't be the XMB say something like "God of War" or "Gran Turismo 4"?

I would imagine the system would have to begin actually playing the game before it can determine what it is. Then they would have to code the system so it can automatically switch to the emulator if it's available.

Believe me, there's more to programming something than just making a text file with a bunch of names. That part isn't hard. What's hard is getting the system to adjust itself automatically according to that list. And small changes to a program aren't as easy as you think, either. We had a bit of a fiasco at work a few weeks ago, when we requested a program change. In fact, the change we requested was smaller than the one you're talking about for PS3.. a simple change in text within a small file somewhere could "theoretically" have done it (specifically, we asked the programmers to change the value range for a motherboard's heath statistics.. a simple change of text, right?). Fixing that problem caused something else to break, another feature that simply stopped working altogether. Fixing that problem caused something else to break. All in all, it took them about three weeks to finally get it all in working order, and I'm just waiting to find out what else is broken as a result of their latest fix. All of that from what I imagined was as simple as altering some numbers within a text file. I was wrong.

Bottom line, it's NOT going to be that simple for them.

I'm pretty sure each software titles for the PLaystation brand name is identified by a number. A catalogue of numbers would make a system like I've explained, work easily.

Afterall, there are files and executables that are on the disc that are necessary to identify the disc. I'm 100% positive that you've made a mountain out of a molehill.

 

[Jeremy Ricci]

Differences between both Core X360 and Premium X360:

• 20GB HDD
• Wireless controller
• Ethernet cable
• Chrome Trim

Differences between 20GB PS3 and 60GB PS3:

• 40GB more HDD space
• Wi-Fi
• Card Readers
• Chrome Trim

Now, I don't know about you, but the PS3 SKUs have larger differences. With the 360, you can just add in the stuff easily if you choose to do so (except the chrome, but that doesn't matter). With the PS3, while you can upgrade the HDD far and beyond what the 60GB offers, there's no way for the card readers to be added in without being external. And with the Wi-Fi... you'd be very hard pressed to find something that should work.

Hard pressed? The 360 Wifi adapter works, wireless access points (basically a hardwire that then emulates WiFi) also work perfectly. Maybe you just haven't ever done the research to make such a claim, which would explain your incorrect information.

As for the "differences". It is easier to add the minor differences (Wifi and Card Reader) to the PS3, than it is to add the extra's from the premium 360 to a core.

 

[Tornado]

With the 360, you can just add in the stuff easily if you choose to do so (except the chrome, but that doesn't matter).

I understand that. However, the Base 360 is essentially useless for near anything unless you buy extra crap for it. Online play? Yeah, right. Firmware updates? In your dreams. Backwards compatability? Don't make me laugh.
The 20 gig PS3, on the other hand, can do anything related to gaming that the 60 gig model can; from firmware updates to online play. The difference in the amount of stuff and its ease to get may be greater on the PS3 than the 360; but the difference that said stuff has on gameplay on the PS3 is completely neglibable, especially when compared to the 360 models.

I'm pretty sure each software titles for the PLaystation brand name is identified by a number.

They are. For example, Spyro the Dragon is SCUS-94228, whereas Gran Turismo 2 has a number of SCUS-94455. At least, I'm pretty sure that is what that identification code is for.

 

[Jedi2016]

The reason the 20GBs aren't selling is simple.. they're not shipping that many. The guys at the local Best Buy have told me that in a shipment of forty or so PS3s, only two or three of them will be 20GBs. That's if they get any at all, a number of their shipments include only the 60GB. Same story for the local Circuit City.

So if they ship one million 60s, and sell half of them, but only ship twenty thousand 20s, but sell ALL of them, they can still say that "60GB sold half a million, while 20GB sold only twenty thousand, sales are bad". But which one is really selling "better"?

The comparison to the 360 isn't really apt, I think. The Core unit is a joke. In order to properly use the thing, you almost have to buy the Premium, or at least upgrade the Core with a hard drive (which costs the difference, so you might as well buy the Premium and get the wireless controller). As Toronado said, the 20GB PS3 maintains ALL of the basic functionality of the 60GB. All the things that the 20GB PS3 is missing are "options" and "extra features", none of them are required. Microsoft can't say the same thing about the X360.

 

[harrytuttle]

I didn’t say I was, and Dolby HD & DTS-HD are certainly NOT vaporware. Vaporware refers to a product that has not even been developed yet. These compression schemes for lossless audio have been demoed for over a year now. In addition, Dolby HD & DTS-HD are simply the compressed form of the PCM (48 kHz, 24-bit) lossless HD audio tacks that are on Blu-ray discs right now. 👍

Are you kidding? It's been hyped for almost two years (primarily from Yamaha & Denon), and there's yet to be a single preamp/processor on the market that can decode it. DN3D has been demoed for over 10 years, and that's definitely vaporware. And Dolby HD & DTS-HD are capable of outputting 48k/24, but they're generally spec'd at 96k/24....

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

Are you kidding?

No I'm not. Once again, they have ALREADY been demoed. They already exist. Although they are not yet available in a consumer product, they are definitely NOT vaporware.

Furthermore, they are simply compression schemes (although very clever ones) for lossless audio. Lossless audio is currently available in PCM form on countless Blu-ray titles. Oh, and they sound vastly superior to any Dolby Digital or DTS track on any DVD, HD DVD, and Blu-ray.

So going back to your original question, yes I, and anyone else can enjoy lossless HD audio today... and it's definitely worth it. In fact, it sounds so much better than DD or DTS, that even in 2-channel mode, it absolutely sounds better than either.

Once you go lossless you never go back!

The reason the 20GBs aren't selling is simple.. they're not shipping that many. The guys at the local Best Buy have told me that in a shipment of forty or so PS3s, only two or three of them will be 20GBs. That's if they get any at all, a number of their shipments include only the 60GB. Same story for the local Circuit City.

So if they ship one million 60s, and sell half of them, but only ship twenty thousand 20s, but sell ALL of them, they can still say that "60GB sold half a million, while 20GB sold only twenty thousand, sales are bad". But which one is really selling "better"?

Jedi... you do not know the reason, you can only speculate, regardless of what "the guys" at your local Best Buy told you... unless they are somehow privy to the precise detailed sales data of all 2 million PS3 that have sold so far, how they were distributed, the specific dates and locations they were sold.

Of course, much of this is irrelevant had you read the previous posts and followed this topic more carefully. The discussion wasn’t about why the 20GB PS3 isn’t selling now. The topic is/was on why the 20GB isn’t readily available based on the article that Opendriver provided and how that might affect the resale value of the 20GB edition, not why it isn’t selling well right now.

It's already been established that there is a good deal of evidence that Sony has either lowered, stalled, or possibly even stopped production of the 20GB edition, but there can be any number of reasons for this. There is also evidence that prior to the additional shortages and despite shipping fewer 20GB versions, in some cases, like the ones I personally saw and heard about, the 60GB editions were sold out while the 20GB editions were on the shelves... and in those cases then clearly low sales of 20GB editions were based on a lack of interest, not availability - so the answer is not so simple.

I know it seems I’m really picking on you, and I certainly get no pleasure from it as I actually respect how much interest you have in all of this stuff, but you really should rethink how you express your personal opinion as it often gets expressed as a point of fact. Like saying the reason is simple. *sigh*

 

[Eric.]

My PS3 just went up in value:

http://www.gamedrift.com/articles.php?a=293

I getting a bigger HDD soon too

Good luck with Ebay-ing it as a rare model.

 

[opendriver]

Good luck with Ebay-ing it as a rare model.

I mean, I can see why $ony stopped making them. They were losing about (I think) 250 per system sold. As apposed to the (I think) 60 dollars for the 60 gb model.

Im not going to ebay it, I love my PS3 and would not sell it if I saw something better.

Oh yeah, btw, Duck, I called Best buy, CompUSA, Walmart (where I bought mine at) Target, and my local EBgames, and they didnt have a single one.



Just throwin' that out there

 

[Digital-Nitrate]

I mean, I can see why $ony stopped making them. They were losing about (I think) 250 per system sold. As apposed to the (I think) 60 dollars for the 60 gb model.

I don't know how much Sony is actually losing on each PS3, but I suspect its a good deal more than $250. I've seen some very reasonable estimates that show Sony's manufacturing costs to be just over $800. Although, these estimates did not account for distribution costs, SG&A expenses, and most importantly the $2+ billion dollars Sony has already spent on R&D and marketing. Making matters worse for Sony, is that they also do not get the $500/$600 for each PS3 that a retailer sells. The retailers take a chunk out of that for themselves.

However, your estimates don't quite add up:

$250 - $100 = $150 > $60

If this was true then Sony would have to be able to make a 60GB PS3 for $90 LESS then a 20GB edition, which seeing as the 60GB PS3 has more parts, like a larger HDD, card reader, and Wi-Fi, then clearly it costs Sony more, not less to make the 60GB edition.

Now I would agree though, that at Sony's cost, those extras likely cost less than $100, and if demand for the 20GB was lacking, that cost savings will help their losses a little, but they are certainly not making the 60GB edition for the same as the 20GB edition, let alone $90 less.

However, if there really is a serious demand for 20GB editions, and Sony is interested in market penetration and profit, as any smart company would be, then they'll meet that demand. One thing is for sure, they are the only ones that have the actual sales and marketing data that support any of these theories. We can only speculate.

 

[Solid Fro]

Just a rant:

I went to Target today. As I was walking into the doors, I heard a guy holding a 360 box yelling: "Yeah, this one is over-heating too" to another guy in the parking lot. This prompted me to go to the game section. I counted six 360 premiums, one core system, and three HD-DVD add-ons. I also counted five PS3 60 gig systems. As for Wii systems, **** they're just not selling them. All they have is the promo kiosk, no accessories, no games, nothing. There was also two Target pricks in the same section talking about their WoW guilds. Really attracting those ladies, right fellas?

I feel sorry for the Xbox guy. At least two 360s over-heating?

 

[Tomf4i03]

I have a 60 I play on, and a brand new 20 in the closet unopened, maybe I should keep it now? I was trying to sell it but if it is discontinued.....

 

[cudadude2]

I have a 60 I play on, and a brand new 20 in the closet unopened, maybe I should keep it now? I was trying to sell it but if it is discontinued.....

Something i learned in the collector car hobby, 'Rare dosn't mean valuable'.

b

 

[superb16]

Someone mentioned overheating. My friend bought his X360 just before Christmas. He bought it specifically for Gears of War. I went over to check the game out after he'd had it for about 2 weeks and after 2 and a half hours it was overheating. The cinemas weren't playing correctly anymore. Definitely overheating, not a dirty disc.