PS4 Overall Volume (Still) Too LowPS4

[Scaff]

Sorry if you take that in bad manner, and sorry I forget to add DD on 5.1 mentioning.

Sorry but my headset has dedicated low frequency speaker on both earpieces, it has 4 speakers per earpiece and it is full Dolby Digital.

LFE is presented in all DD and above Dolby standards, so you don't need special "switch" for it on "other applications or sources" just watching Blu-ray movie is just enough to know how well my headset is providing LFE channel (I have switches/adjusting possibilities per channel volume and it's easy to check when muting sub channel, where my control box directs LFE), SMS "boost" isn't limiting signal coding to LFE (or I assume at that's the problem) because it breaks sounds when activated.

Spoiler: JadaJada by Wikipedia

In the 1990s surround sound home theater systems became available to enhance the experience of viewing DVD and Blu-ray films. Prior to the advent of home theater systems, when VCRs were used, the enhanced sound option was stereo high-fidelity sound or Dolby Pro Logic for Dolby Surround-encoded tapes. With home theater systems, a multichannel audio system was used to deliver different sounds to six or more different speakers. The widely used 5.1-channel audio system consists of five full range main (Left, Center, Right, Left rear Surround, and Right rear Surround) plus a Low-Frequency Effects (LFE) channel. Many typical home theater systems, especially home theater in a boxsystems, are incapable of accurately reproducing LFE in the 20 Hertz range.

The LFE channel delivers bass-only information to supplement the overall bass content. The LFE channel content is not the same as the content of a subwoofer-out jack. The LFE channel is used to carry additional bass information in the Dolby Digital program, while the subwoofer output is bass information from up to all six channels that has been selected to be reproduced by the subwoofer via a bass management system.

The bass management in surround sound replay systems is that bass content in the incoming signal, irrespective of channel, should be directed only to loudspeakers capable of handling it. The bass management system may direct bass to one or more subwoofers (if present) from any channel, not simply the content of the LFE channel. As such, it is incorrect to call the LFE the subwoofer channel.

Honestly from our previous conversations on Home Cinema and Audio do you think I'm not aware of this?

Nor have I said that LFE boost is limiting signal coding to LFE.

Nor do the manufacturers of your headset state that it contains a Low Frequency speaker, rather they say that they have a 40mm speaker in each earpeace for the subwoofer channel (and that's not the same thing), they don't even give any information on the frequency handling of the headset on decoding unit at all!


Now true LFE (which is being boosted here) is not just subwoofer feed but a dedicated Bass channel on top of that. Most Home Cinema's in a Box can't deal with it as it falls to the 20 to 40Hz range (which is at and below the range of human hearing), to be able to produce LFE you are no longer into just frequencies you can hear, but ones you can feel and to do that you need to be able to shift air, and a lot of it very quickly. Nor can DD deal with anything below 20Hz, for that you need LPCM, as its a lossless format, or Dolby True HD or DTS-HD.

Home Cinema subs (real ones, not home cinema in a Box) start at 8", as anything less than that is unlikely to be able to shift the air needed to recreate these frequencies, with 10" and above considered the norm. The simple reason being that you need the surface area of the speaker cone to be as large as possible. Very roughly a 10" driver will take you as low as 25Hz, with below 20Hz needing either multiple drivers and/or much larger drivers (15" upwards). The amount of air that needs to be moved should not be underestimated here, this should be able to be felt by your whole body rather than heard, this should make your furniture move! A headphone driver trying to do this to your eardrum is not only going to be incapable of the job, but outright unpleasant!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subwoofer

Now a quick comparison between the speakers in your headphones and an average 10" single driver shows how much of a limiting factor this is. A 4cm driver has a surface area of 12.56 cm2, while a 10" (254cm) driver has a surface area of 506.71 cm2. And that's without taking into account the lack of true sub enclosure design within a headset (which is simply not possible within the space available).

The very, very simple answer to your issue is that you are asking your hardware (headphones) to do something they were never designed to do, which is deal with a boosted LFE feed designed for a true sub-woofer, and as they are not capable of dealing with it, the result is distortion.

Part of the Wiki you quoted even says this:

"The bass management in surround sound replay systems is that bass content in the incoming signal, irrespective of channel, should be directed only to loudspeakers capable of handling it."

A 4cm driver is not capable of handling it when boosted.

Do you not notice the number of people here who are running a boosted LFE via either full home cinemas and/or tactile units who are not seeing the same issue, but rather are seeing quite a significant benefit from it!

 

[diesel97]

Sorry if you take that in bad manner, and sorry I forget to add DD on 5.1 mentioning.

Sorry but my headset has dedicated low frequency speaker on both earpieces, it has 4 speakers per earpiece and it is full Dolby Digital.

LFE is presented in all DD and above Dolby standards, so you don't need special "switch" for it on "other applications or sources" just watching Blu-ray movie is just enough to know how well my headset is providing LFE channel (I have switches/adjusting possibilities per channel volume and it's easy to check when muting sub channel, where my control box directs LFE), SMS "boost" isn't limiting signal coding to LFE (or I assume at that's the problem) because it breaks sounds when activated.

Spoiler: JadaJada by Wikipedia

In the 1990s surround sound home theater systems became available to enhance the experience of viewing DVD and Blu-ray films. Prior to the advent of home theater systems, when VCRs were used, the enhanced sound option was stereo high-fidelity sound or Dolby Pro Logic for Dolby Surround-encoded tapes. With home theater systems, a multichannel audio system was used to deliver different sounds to six or more different speakers. The widely used 5.1-channel audio system consists of five full range main (Left, Center, Right, Left rear Surround, and Right rear Surround) plus a Low-Frequency Effects (LFE) channel. Many typical home theater systems, especially home theater in a boxsystems, are incapable of accurately reproducing LFE in the 20 Hertz range.

The LFE channel delivers bass-only information to supplement the overall bass content. The LFE channel content is not the same as the content of a subwoofer-out jack. The LFE channel is used to carry additional bass information in the Dolby Digital program, while the subwoofer output is bass information from up to all six channels that has been selected to be reproduced by the subwoofer via a bass management system.

The bass management in surround sound replay systems is that bass content in the incoming signal, irrespective of channel, should be directed only to loudspeakers capable of handling it. The bass management system may direct bass to one or more subwoofers (if present) from any channel, not simply the content of the LFE channel. As such, it is incorrect to call the LFE the subwoofer channel.

What headset are you using that have 8 individual speakers in it?

 

[Scaff]

What headset are you using that have 8 individual speakers in it?

If he still has the same ones, they are Sharkoon X-Tatic Digital V3 - 5.1 Dolby Digital

Which do have four speakers per ear, but none of them are true Low Frequency.

http://www.overclockersclub.com/reviews/sharkoonxtaticdigital/

Headphones can do a resonable job of sound placement (either via multi speakers such as the 5.1 Sharktoon's or more so now vai software decoding via Dolby 7.1 Headphone or DTS Headphone-x such as the 7.1 Turtle Beach 520's I use), but that placement is never as good as a well set-up and dedicated AV system, and none of them are going to ever give you true Low Frequency, as they lack the driver size to be able to do so.

Multiple speakers in headphones has pretty much been replaced by the software decoding via either Dolby 7.1 Headphone or DTS Headphone-x, as they can be processed via a sound card and sent to a set of stereo headphones or built into headphones (Stelth 520s, Astro A50's, etc), while still giving you a very realistic soundstage for headphones (within the limits of headphones). Software decoding tends to provide a better overlap of the channels than separate speakers inside the earphones, as well as more accurate placement, as the decoding tech was specifically designed for this.

http://dts.com/headphonex
https://www.dolby.com/us/en/technologies/dolby-headphone.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_Headphone
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Head-related_transfer_function

 

[OdeFinn]

Honestly from our previous conversations on Home Cinema and Audio do you think I'm not aware of this?

Nor have I said that LFE boost is limiting signal coding to LFE.

Nor do the manufacturers of your headset state that it contains a Low Frequency speaker, rather they say that they have a 40mm speaker in each earpeace for the subwoofer channel (and that's not the same thing), they don't even give any information on the frequency handling of the headset on decoding unit at all!


Now true LFE (which is being boosted here) is not just subwoofer feed but a dedicated Bass channel on top of that. Most Home Cinema's in a Box can't deal with it as it falls to the 20 to 40Hz range (which is at and below the range of human hearing), to be able to produce LFE you are no longer into just frequencies you can hear, but ones you can feel and to do that you need to be able to shift air, and a lot of it very quickly. Nor can DD deal with anything below 20Hz, for that you need LPCM, as its a lossless format, or Dolby True HD or DTS-HD.

Home Cinema subs (real ones, not home cinema in a Box) start at 8", as anything less than that is unlikely to be able to shift the air needed to recreate these frequencies, with 10" and above considered the norm. The simple reason being that you need the surface area of the speaker cone to be as large as possible. Very roughly a 10" driver will take you as low as 25Hz, with below 20Hz needing either multiple drivers and/or much larger drivers (15" upwards). The amount of air that needs to be moved should not be underestimated here, this should be able to be felt by your whole body rather than heard, this should make your furniture move! A headphone driver trying to do this to your eardrum is not only going to be incapable of the job, but outright unpleasant!
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subwoofer

Now a quick comparison between the speakers in your headphones and an average 10" single driver shows how much of a limiting factor this is. A 4cm driver has a surface area of 12.56 cm2, while a 10" (254cm) driver has a surface area of 506.71 cm2. And that's without taking into account the lack of true sub enclosure design within a headset (which is simply not possible within the space available).

The very, very simple answer to your issue is that you are asking your hardware (headphones) to do something they were never designed to do, which is deal with a boosted LFE feed designed for a true sub-woofer, and as they are not capable of dealing with it, the result is distortion.

Part of the Wiki you quoted even says this:

"The bass management in surround sound replay systems is that bass content in the incoming signal, irrespective of channel, should be directed only to loudspeakers capable of handling it."

A 4cm driver is not capable of handling it when boosted.

Do you not notice the number of people here who are running a boosted LFE via either full home cinemas and/or tactile units who are not seeing the same issue, but rather are seeing quite a significant benefit from it!

Will get back to my headset later, meanwhile you can then explain why this distortion of sound happens also on TV audio when LFE boost is activated? Clearly heard difference on sound clarity on my old Sony KDL-EX720?

 

[ThaFlash_LA]

@Gr8_Lakes I do my chat thorough my phone headset plugged into my controller. But you can always force chat through the controller I believe. It’s in chat settings which I believe you bring up by holding the PS button, and then it’s in sounds or devices or something like that.

@OdeFinn what he says about headphones is equally relevant about TV speakers too. Even more so actually because at least in headphones you have a sealed, low quantity of air, and a small driver can create some pressure, but on a TV, no. You have a still tiny driver trying to move air in a big room

@diesel97 yeah, the same thing happens with GT Sport. Not only is it louder, but the sounds are much more alive. Maybe they’re replicating double sets of hearing protection with the helmet. Or maybe modern GT3 cars have the sound insulation of a Bugatti.

 

[Scaff]

Will get back to my headset later, meanwhile you can then explain why this distortion of sound happens also on TV audio when LFE boost is activated? Clearly heard difference on sound clarity on my old Sony KDL-EX720?

Because your TV doesn't have a subwoofer in it either.

It's almost as if you didn't read anything I posted!

As I already said:

Part of the Wiki you quoted even says this:

"The bass management in surround sound replay systems is that bass content in the incoming signal, irrespective of channel, should be directed only to loudspeakers capable of handling it."

Headphones can't and TV speakers certainly can't, you need a subwoofer.

 

[OdeFinn]

Because your TV doesn't have a subwoofer in it either.

It's almost as if you didn't read anything I posted!

As I already said:

Part of the Wiki you quoted even says this:

"The bass management in surround sound replay systems is that bass content in the incoming signal, irrespective of channel, should be directed only to loudspeakers capable of handling it."

Headphones can't and TV speakers certainly can't, you need a subwoofer.

And this all gets back to start, something isn't right on LFE boost as I said earlier.
My TV is capable of handling DD surround signal, and the way how pc2 now uses LFE boost isn't good for it or my headphones or many other users who aren't shaking their arses with tactile vibrators.
IMO pc2 pushes low frequency signals also to other channels than only LFE, and when this happens normal DD systems aren't excluding those signals and it is causing sound distortion.
And back again, using LFE boost (which is switched on by default on pc2, funny thing) isn't good choice for pleasant audio experience. IMO Don't believe at it is fully working even with your 7.1 (running 5.1) audio system.

 

[Scaff]

And this all gets back to start, something isn't right on LFE boost as I said earlier.
My TV is capable of handling DD surround signal, and the way how pc2 now uses LFE boost isn't good for it or my headphones or many other users who aren't shaking their arses with tactile vibrators.
IMO pc2 pushes low frequency signals also to other channels than only LFE, and when this happens normal DD systems aren't excluding those signals and it is causing sound distortion.
And back again, using LFE boost (which is switched on by default on pc2, funny thing) isn't good choice for pleasant audio experience. IMO Don't believe at it is fully working even with your 7.1 (running 5.1) audio system.

Cut the passive aggressive digs and understand that it's not going to work if you don't have a sub.

The default value is also set to zero, which isn't boosting anything and therefore not a problem.

The issue here is that you are attempting to get it to do something that it was never going to be able to do, an issue compounded by your utter unwillingness to understand how LFE actually works and what it does. Demonstrated by your inability to understand that it doesn't matter what audio format your TV deals with, it's doesn't have a subwoofer in it!

I have also just tried it with my TB Stealth 520's and get no distortion at all, tested up to 100 boost.

The issue is not with PC2.

 

[OdeFinn]

Cut the passive aggressive digs and understand that it's not going to work if you don't have a sub.

The default value is also set to zero, which isn't boosting anything and therefore not a problem.

The issue here is that you are attempting to get it to do something that it was never going to be able to do, an issue compounded by your utter unwillingness to understand how LFE actually works and what it does. Demonstrated by your inability to understand that it doesn't matter what audio format your TV deals with, it's doesn't have a subwoofer in it!

I have also just tried it with my TB Stealth 520's and get no distortion at all, tested up to 100 boost.

The issue is not with PC2.

Sorry if you don't like me and you want to find "passive aggressive" from my post. Let's keep this conversation on subject, not on persons. Thanks and sorry.

We're crossing bit on subjects, what I'm saying isn't exactly subject what you're replying, it's ok to me. I'll try to get bit deeper in this later, and why I'm saying later is my current rush on two different works and bunch load of things on Freetime.

To that default setting, on v.xxx3 which is my initial install, latest version, LFE boost is 25 on default (of recalling number right, anyhow definitely not 0).
Your release version initial might had 0, but digital "deluxe edition" don't.

Oh, sorry there was indeed small spike on last response, but I believe are you are capable of taking it without bad feeling, that 7.1-5.1 thing, sometimes I just can't stay calm and speak surround systems without laughing it, your picture was showing you running your system 5.1 instead of 7.1. But don't get angry for it, everyone makes mistakes.

 

[Scaff]

Sorry if you don't like me and you want to find "passive aggressive" from my post. Let's keep this conversation on subject, not on persons. Thanks and sorry.

We're crossing bit on subjects, what I'm saying isn't exactly subject what you're replying, it's ok to me. I'll try to get bit deeper in this later, and why I'm saying later is my current rush on two different works and bunch load of things on Freetime.

To that default setting, on v.xxx3 which is my initial install, latest version, LFE boost is 25 on default (of recalling number right, anyhow definitely not 0).
Your release version initial might had 0, but digital "deluxe edition" don't.

Oh, sorry there was indeed small spike on last response, but I believe are you are capable of taking it without bad feeling, that 7.1-5.1 thing, sometimes I just can't stay calm and speak surround systems without laughing it, your picture was showing you running your system 5.1 instead of 7.1. But don't get angry for it, everyone makes mistakes.

I've never claimed to be running my system as a 7.1, while it's capable of that I run it as a 5.1.

Never claimed otherwise, that's an off topic and utterly false claim of yours.

Not that it would have changed the nonsense you were talking back then, or this latest round of it. Nice attempt to distract from that however.

 

[ThaFlash_LA]

I want the next criticism of LFE to be based on audio via Bluetooth through a Beats pill.

 

[OdeFinn]

@OdeFinn what he says about headphones is equally relevant about TV speakers too. Even more so actually because at least in headphones you have a sealed, low quantity of air, and a small driver can create some pressure, but on a TV, no. You have a still tiny driver trying to move air in a big room

Yes, never tried to achieve LFE channel to give me any brilliant bass on those, or think at it would be possible.
Whole point from beginning is that at if boost is activated it may interfere your audio experience on basic (as most users) sound systems.
Easiest car to hear distortion is that BMW 320 TC which was on new year community event. It will make really crispy sounds when LFE boost is activated, even on only value 1, as far as I have now tried cars before switching boost off. There might be also other cars which are on similar sound frequencies as BMW and distortion hearable with boost.

I'm not posting these to cause harm, or any other bad manners in my mind, I'm trying to share things which I have found and thought at other users might get some benefit from such information.
I don't care which settings people are using their games/equipments, I'm just giving my opinion, if it helps someone, then my post wasn't useless.

 

[ThaFlash_LA]

I’ll try that car out to see how it sounds. I have mine at 65 right now so I want to know if that’s going to cause annoyance.

 

[Scaff]

Yes, never tried to achieve LFE channel to give me any brilliant bass on those, or think at it would be possible.
Whole point from beginning is that at if boost is activated it may interfere your audio experience on basic (as most users) sound systems.
Easiest car to hear distortion is that BMW 320 TC which was on new year community event. It will make really crispy sounds when LFE boost is activated, even on only value 1, as far as I have now tried cars before switching boost off. There might be also other cars which are on similar sound frequencies as BMW and distortion hearable with boost.

I'm not posting these to cause harm, or any other bad manners in my mind, I'm trying to share things which I have found and thought at other users might get some benefit from such information.
I don't care which settings people are using their games/equipments, I'm just giving my opinion, if it helps someone, then my post wasn't useless.

I've now tested this on my AV system (Sony DA-2400ES into MA speakers and sub), receiver audio pass-through direct to TV (Sharp 50"), direct to TV x 3 (50" Sharp, 40" Sony and 32" Samsung), optical out to a set of Turtle Beach Stealth 520 7.1 headphones and audio capture via HDMI to an Elgato HD60 capture card.

Not a single issue with any of them beyond the inherent audio quality issues of TV speakers and headphones over a full blown AV system, aside from a slightly earlier onset of distortion with the TV speakers if LFE boost is cracked right the way up, however this is at the stage that the audio is already starting to break up due to the hardware limitations.

With the AV system and tactile rig the LFE boost is doing exactly what its says it does, boost the LFE channel to provide a boost in bass effects at the very low end of the audio spectrum.

Now you headset I can certainly see having potential problems, as its doing something that Dolby Digital was never designed to do, which is send a subwoofer feed to something that is not a subwoofer (the 40mm driver in your headphones are not sub-woofers and never will be).

As such to present this as an issue with PC2 sees to be very, very wide of the mark, and it being an issue with your hardware and/or how your hardware is set-up is a far more likely scenario. That is all that others have said to you, the reply to which has been mocking ignorance from yourself and the repeat of previous lies. Its not a pattern of behaviour that is acceptable and this is not the first time you have been told that.

The simple fact is that your knowledge of AV systems, hardware and how audio works in general is limited, that in itself is not a problem at all. The issue is your refusal to accept that you may have gaps in your knowledge and that you could learn from others. This has seen you repeatedly mis-quote instruction manuals and specification for kit you don't own and have never used, claim that diamonds must be soft because they transmit sound waves (and that one flies in the face of physics), attempt to attribute quote to members they never made and simply make things up (Sony have a super audio that can only be heard correctly with Sony kit (but not my Sony kit) and your headphones doing something they are incapable of doing).

 

[OdeFinn]

Now you headset I can certainly see having potential problems, as its doing something that Dolby Digital was never designed to do, which is send a subwoofer feed to something that is not a subwoofer (the 40mm driver in your headphones are not sub-woofers and never will be).

Direct HDMI between tv and PS4.
Direct optical between headset and PS4.
Plus HDMI to tv and roll thru there with optical to headset.
None of them changing situation.

Nice clean bass effects in every other game and movie, this is first audio source what's giving distortion.
Headset output, channel balance and delays set with some "video/audio calibration"-DVD (don't remember name, same DVD is well known and used on video/audio forum enthusiasts).
More likely I'm suspecting at boost isn't limited on only LFE channel, game controls which channels it packs on LFE and which goes on other channels, boost might now pump up low end sounds on all channels, and if you leave it as is it will try to push those also out on speakers, but if you have equalizer/etc on your audio system it can cut low freqs out from channels where those doesn't belong, when you don't have, then you have distortion on there.

As such to present this as an issue with PC2 sees to be very, very wide of the mark, and it being an issue with your hardware and/or how your hardware is set-up is a far more likely scenario. That is all that others have said to you, the reply to which has been mocking ignorance from yourself and the repeat of previous lies. Its not a pattern of behaviour that is acceptable and this is not the first time you have been told that.

Giving opinions isn't allowed, how there can be any discussion if giving opinion is not allowed?
Repeat of previous lies, it's hilarious if you are trying to put that knob of diamonds are soft in lies category, I posted hard facts of it on forum, except you deleted that post where document was attached. I'm not going back there, if you want proof of that diamond thing again, I can post it - if it won't get deleted again.
I'm posting my posts in helpful manners, giving my opinions, discussing about those, trying to explain where/why/what makes my opinions to be as is. I'm not saying anyone to be wrong, just expressing my opinion and others can stay with their opinions, as normal discussion does.

The simple fact is that your knowledge of AV systems, hardware and how audio works in general is limited, that in itself is not a problem at all. The issue is your refusal to accept that you may have gaps in your knowledge and that you could learn from others. This has seen you repeatedly mis-quote instruction manuals and specification for kit you don't own and have never used, claim that diamonds must be soft because they transmit sound waves (and that one flies in the face of physics), attempt to attribute quote to members they never made and simply make things up (Sony have a super audio that can only be heard correctly with Sony kit (but not my Sony kit) and your headphones doing something they are incapable of doing).

You got some talent to know my knowledge, I'm not best to express my thoughts 100% in clear English, that's true for sure, but you're making things way bigger than they are.
And just because you continue to spread that false fact of diamonds aren't soft by laws of physics, I'm asking you to truly check that fact out before spreading false fact more. It's common knowledge at diamonds are "hard" when speaking on "street level", and it's common knowledge at those are "soft" in terms of physics.

I'm sorry for being here and giving you headache, I'm trying to avoid unnecessary conversations between us, just because seeing how easily get offended on things which aren't ment to be offending.

 

[Scaff]

Direct HDMI between tv and PS4.
Direct optical between headset and PS4.
Plus HDMI to tv and roll thru there with optical to headset.
None of them changing situation.

Nice clean bass effects in every other game and movie, this is first audio source what's giving distortion.
Headset output, channel balance and delays set with some "video/audio calibration"-DVD (don't remember name, same DVD is well known and used on video/audio forum enthusiasts).
More likely I'm suspecting at boost isn't limited on only LFE channel, game controls which channels it packs on LFE and which goes on other channels, boost might now pump up low end sounds on all channels, and if you leave it as is it will try to push those also out on speakers, but if you have equalizer/etc on your audio system it can cut low freqs out from channels where those doesn't belong, when you don't have, then you have distortion on there.

You have nothing at all to back up the claim that its boosting all channels rather than just LFE.

The single most likely explanation is the one that has already been covered, that your attempting to put a range of frequencies (LFE) into a device that is simply not capable of dealing with it, and as a result it causing distortion.

Now that does seem to be hardware dependent as I've tested it with a number of devices and not been able to repeat your claimed problem, as such, right now the single common demoninator in this is you and your hardware.

Giving opinions isn't allowed, how there can be any discussion if giving opinion is not allowed?

Have not said that, so don;t attempt to claim as such.

Stating an opinion as if it were fact doesn't make it a fact.

Repeat of previous lies, it's hilarious if you are trying to put that knob of diamonds are soft in lies category, I posted hard facts of it on forum, except you deleted that post where document was attached. I'm not going back there, if you want proof of that diamond thing again, I can post it - if it won't get deleted again.

Are here is an example of exactly that.

I didn't delete a damn thing in that regard at all, as such you have just made an accusation that not only is unsupported y reality, but you would have no way at all of knowing which member of staff deleted it unless you are on the staff. Yet you still present it as fact!

No that it matters as the document in question doesn't support a claim that diamonds are soft.

I'm posting my posts in helpful manners, giving my opinions, discussing about those, trying to explain where/why/what makes my opinions to be as is. I'm not saying anyone to be wrong, just expressing my opinion and others can stay with their opinions, as normal discussion does.

Then you should have had no reason to repeatedly claim that I had said I was running my system in 7.1.

A claim I have never made, but an accusation you have made repeatedly.

Yet oddly you keep doing it.

You got some talent to know my knowledge, I'm not best to express my thoughts 100% in clear English, that's true for sure, but you're making things way bigger than they are.
And just because you continue to spread that false fact of diamonds aren't soft by laws of physics, I'm asking you to truly check that fact out before spreading false fact more. It's common knowledge at diamonds are "hard" when speaking on "street level", and it's common knowledge at those are "soft" in terms of physics.

Nope in terms of physics or not, diamonds are not soft.

That they transmit sound waves well does make them soft as you claimed.

Fact is just thing where majority of people have decided to believe, example: you might say at diamonds are one of hardest materials in world, but I can say at those are really soft. I'm right and you're wrong. Proof: take imaginary 1km (irrelevant how long, but helps to understand) long diamond and knock on other end and listen on other end, sound will come thru, bending diamond to deliver it's sound waves thru it. So just jelly to me, even light travels thru it, so black thick paper has to be harder

Now your 'source' (you didn't attach a document and I wasn't the member of staff that removed this) says:

"What is sound? Why diamonds are soft?
-please read both attachments and leave this as is.
"Acousticwaves are mechanical,which meansthatthey
cannot travel through a vacuum, whereas light waves
are electromagnetic and can travel through a vacuum.
In general, mechanical waves passing through a gas or
a liquid are known as acousticwaves,while those pass-
ing through a solid are called elastic waves.
There are other important differences between
mechanical and electromagnetic waves. Whereas a
lightwave can have two independent polarizations, an
elastic wave in a homogeneous solid has three inde-
pendent polarizations: two of these are transverse
(shear waves) and one is longitudinal (a compression
wave). However,since shear waves are notsupported
in liquids and gases, an acoustic wave has just one
longitudinal polarization.
The propagation of mechanical waves in a medium
is usually described by a dispersion relation thatrelates
the frequency,ω, andwave vector, k, ofthe propagating
wave. The dispersion relation for waves travelling in a
homogeneous medium is very simple: ω = c • k, where
c is the velocity of sound in the medium. "

Now you clearly copied and pasted that from another source (apart from "What is sound? Why diamonds are soft?" which you have clearly added) and it doesn;t support your claim one bit.

"Nor prior to that had you taken on board sources that clearly show you are incorrect:

What grade of diamond is it? How loud is the sound? What frequency is the sound? Why are you relating the hardness of an item (which is measurable on the Mohs scale) with its ability to transmist sounds when they are actually directly inverse?

That's right the harder a material is the better is transmits sound!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speed_of_sound"

I'm sorry for being here and giving you headache, I'm trying to avoid unnecessary conversations between us, just because seeing how easily get offended on things which aren't ment to be offending.

I'm not offended (so once again please stop making assumptions you can't validate or support), I'm however not going to let inaccuracies and nonsense stand uncorrected.

 

[IfAndOr]

I can't disagree that compared to PC1 the sound has less oomph but it's still quite good with plenty of details. What they seemed to have done is spread the sounds around more than previously, there's more surround sound positioning. The exhaust is from the rear for instance and if it's a mid engined car that also comes out of the rear speakers. The trouble with that though is that most rear speakers tend to be smaller satellite units that can't handle the extra oomph or bass. There's also a quite lot of sounds hidden in the overall mix which when produced all together tends to get a bit muddy. The players engine really overpowers most of the rest of the sounds further loosing definition. I went through and zeroed all the sounds and gradually increased each one until I figured out what was being produced from that output. I then tried to balance the overall sounds out elevating certain sounds above others. While it still might not be perfect I think it produces a better overall sound field. You'll probably still have to turn up the volume though!

Just in case it might help anyone here's the setting I ended up with.

Spoiler: Equipment

Amp is a Sony 5.1 unit. It's not a new but is a decent one. It's got a feature that spreads the sound around further which can be helpful but I didn't use while balancing the sounds
The front speakers are coaxial Kenwood, the rear are smaller but quite good Sony units and the centre is also a Sony but is a dual speaker. The woofer, I've recently swapped out a Sony one for a older but very good (and big!) Kenwood model. It's got all sorts of features, different turnover levels, subsonic bass, boost etc. It's right by my leg so due to the added LFE I'm actually getting some rumble effects!

PS4 settings
Primary output - Optical digital. Dolby and DTS available.
Audio format priority - DTS (If you want to try with just stereo select linear PCM.

Spoiler: PC2 Settings

Master - 100
Menu - 50 (to preference)
Menu music - Off
Player engine - 40 to 60 depending on car or where the engine/exhaust is. (This can be very overpowering. It also includes some gearbox noise)
Opponent engine - 65 (depends on the cars again)
General car - 82 (damaged components creaks and bumps)
Tyre - 100 (helps with preventing lock ups)
Collision - 90 (lets you know you've crashed :-)
Track surface - 85 (increase if you want more rumble strip effect, although gravel also gets louder)
Environment - 93 (birds, wind and stuff that normally goes unheard)
Sound effects - 87 (whoosh and various other extras)
Pit to car - 100 (so I can hear the spotter)
LFE extra - 85 (depending on your woofer/equipment)
Headphone mix - Off (although this can help in balancing sounds somewhat and possibly the bass) Have you tried this @OdeFinn ?
Speech to controller - Off (I find it's annoying coming through the controller)

Oh and although made from carbon due to the way the atoms bond together diamonds are one of the hardest substances know to man. On the other hand black thick paper isn't.

 

[OdeFinn]

I have strong feeling at LFE extra isn't working as it should, all sounds start to break when it is activated, even lowest value 1 makes distortion on sounds, zero gives cleanest sounds, including bass sounds.
Something on PS4 audio mix isn't right.

You have nothing at all to back up the claim that its boosting all channels rather than just LFE.

Feeling is now claim and fact?

The single most likely explanation is the one that has already been covered, that your attempting to put a range of frequencies (LFE) into a device that is simply not capable of dealing with it, and as a result it causing distortion.

Now that does seem to be hardware dependent as I've tested it with a number of devices and not been able to repeat your claimed problem, as such, right now the single common demoninator in this is you and your hardware.

Again, I'm telling what I'm facing, giving my feeling as opinion on post.

Stating an opinion as if it were fact doesn't make it a fact.

The simple fact is that your knowledge of AV systems, hardware and how audio works in general is limited, that in itself is not a problem at all. The issue is your refusal to accept that you may have gaps in your knowledge and that you could learn from others.

I haven't said at my opinions are facts, or assume those to be so, opinions will raise discussion, discussion will lead to testing, testing will lead to several results, combining several results might give final result which we can consider as fact, but it also might end in situation where there isn't absolute clear answer and therefore no facts can be claimed.

Are here is an example of exactly that.

I didn't delete a damn thing in that regard at all, as such you have just made an accusation that not only is unsupported y reality, but you would have no way at all of knowing which member of staff deleted it unless you are on the staff. Yet you still present it as fact!

No that it matters as the document in question doesn't support a claim that diamonds are soft.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/attachments/1012-4105-pdf.647804/
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/attachments/sound_ideas-pdf.647803/
These were attached on post back then, which magically got deleted.
I have few screenshots on my old phone, when doing filesystem digging there someday I'll try to remember this and take copy of those for you (OS filesystem partition and boatloader is corrupted currently and it's bit of work to get files out from there currently).

Nope in terms of physics or not, diamonds are not soft.

That they transmit sound waves well does make them soft as you claimed.

Now your 'source' (you didn't attach a document and I wasn't the member of staff that removed this) says:

Sorry if deleting was done by someone else on staff than you.
Check that 1012-4105.pdf

But truly hope at we can stop this conversation, accept opinions as opinions and keep discussion in proper line where things/subjects are against subjects, not person vs person. Thanks.

 

[yogi bear]

Feeling is now claim and fact?



Again, I'm telling what I'm facing, giving my feeling as opinion on post.




I haven't said at my opinions are facts, or assume those to be so, opinions will raise discussion, discussion will lead to testing, testing will lead to several results, combining several results might give final result which we can consider as fact, but it also might end in situation where there isn't absolute clear answer and therefore no facts can be claimed.



https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/attachments/1012-4105-pdf.647804/
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/attachments/sound_ideas-pdf.647803/
These were attached on post back then, which magically got deleted.
I have few screenshots on my old phone, when doing filesystem digging there someday I'll try to remember this and take copy of those for you (OS filesystem partition and boatloader is corrupted currently and it's bit of work to get files out from there currently).





Sorry if deleting was done by someone else on staff than you.
Check that 1012-4105.pdf

But truly hope at we can stop this conversation, accept opinions as opinions and keep discussion in proper line where things/subjects are against subjects, not person vs person. Thanks.

The 69 camaro is not the right sound, and is not loud enough. It was known as "louder than bombs"
It does not sound like 8,000 rpm either. The newest update has screwed up the handling , you should be able to throw it around, and gather it up. Before the update it was pretty close to real life. (I used to own one)
Top speed is also out. At road America it should be hitting 150mph at least. They ran that in real life.
Please fix .... thx.

 

[Scaff]

Feeling is now claim and fact?

I said you made a claim, and yes that's what you feeling would be in this case. I never called it a 'fact' in this example.

Again, I'm telling what I'm facing, giving my feeling as opinion on post.

Your assigning the fault directly to SMS and the LFE Boost tool with no supporting evidence at all.

I haven't said at my opinions are facts, or assume those to be so, opinions will raise discussion, discussion will lead to testing, testing will lead to several results, combining several results might give final result which we can consider as fact, but it also might end in situation where there isn't absolute clear answer and therefore no facts can be claimed.

I disagree, you have assigned direct blame.

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/attachments/1012-4105-pdf.647804/
https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/attachments/sound_ideas-pdf.647803/
These were attached on post back then, which magically got deleted.
I have few screenshots on my old phone, when doing filesystem digging there someday I'll try to remember this and take copy of those for you (OS filesystem partition and boatloader is corrupted currently and it's bit of work to get files out from there currently).

Sorry if deleting was done by someone else on staff than you.
Check that 1012-4105.pdf

But truly hope at we can stop this conversation, accept opinions as opinions and keep discussion in proper line where things/subjects are against subjects, not person vs person. Thanks.

Those attachments don't support your claim at all.

You are either misreading them or you're simply don;t understand them at all.

They do not support your claim that diamonds are soft.

 

[yogi bear]

I said you made a claim, and yes that's what you feeling would be in this case. I never called it a 'fact' in this example.



Your assigning the fault directly to SMS and the LFE Boost tool with no supporting evidence at all.




I disagree, you have assigned direct blame.



Those attachments don't support your claim at all.

You are either misreading them or you're simply don;t understand them at all.

They do not support your claim that diamonds are soft.

I agree that the overall volume of the cars is too low.. I know didly squat about that technobabble that was posted. I'm just comparing p1 to p2. ( I have a head set with bass boost)

 

[yogi bear]

Well, you can answer this, is sound traveling thru diamond? If answer is yes, then diamonds are soft in terms of physics. Second sound wave investigation wouldn't be on table if first sound wave isn't passing it. First sound wave is explained on other attached document (physical movement of solid), second wave hypothesis claims are on are on second(thermal waves on solid).

Holy technobabble batman, I'm of the opinion sound was better balanced in p1... ( I'm using a headset with bass boost. ... that is my techno challenged opinion.

 

[Scaff]

Holy technobabble batman, I'm of the opinion sound was better balanced in p1... ( I'm using a headset with bass boost. ... that is my techno challenged opinion.

Babble is all it is.......


...........and its been moved here:

https://www.gtplanet.net/forum/thre...d-other-scientific-missunderstandings.373095/

 

[Sick Cylinder]

I only have a home cinema in a box connected to my PS4 Pro, but it sounded excellent (to my ears and friends ears) when playing Project Cars 1, however it does not sound excellent with Project Cars 2. There has been no change in my hardware - there is clearly a problem with the game.

I am sure that most people playing the game are not using high end audio equipment like @Scaff and @IfAndOr but are using the cheaper home cinema in a box type equipment. It seems a strange design decision to make a game which sounds worse than its previous iteration - I can only assume it was a mistake by SMS. Perhaps @IanBell could comment.

The recent changes with the addition of LFE control are welcome, but have had no effect on my tactile transducer system. It is frustrating and disappointing that I was able to enjoy such great effects in Project Cars 1, but I am still getting none from Project Cars 2. It seems that unless SMS are able to patch the audio to be as per the first game, the only way I am going to be able to get good audio and tactile effects is by making expensive upgrades to my equipment. I don't see why I should have to do this - surely it can't be too difficult for SMS to change the design decision which resulted in PC2 being weak when PC1 was a class leader.

 

[ThaFlash_LA]

I just did some tests, LFE at 65, then 85, then 100. I tried the 320tc, amg gt, m6 lm, and sesto elemento.

Helmet cam definitely muffles sounds.

There’s some droning rumble coming from the engines, but as you get higher into the powerband, the low frequency effects die down. And if you’ve ever been in a car you know that higher rpms does not translate into less vibrations.

The sound quality, clarity and surround effects are great though.

Nothing more annoying to me than hearing a Lamborghini engine through my front speakers in cockpit view while playing forza.

Now, you might be thinking that I just have my sub turned down low, but with the same settings, the entire building shakes during marvel movies, and is actually a bit much in the Batman films, and if you want to play a Migos, or 21 Savage song, you better give a warning.

Replays are much much louder, a bit bassier , nothing like what you would actually feel, but I’d really like replay type sound in cockpit.

Some tuning with my receiver and I have it at a good spot in the M6 lm car.

Edit: last sentence and spelling.

 

[Gr8_Lakes]

I only have a home cinema in a box connected to my PS4 Pro, but it sounded excellent (to my ears and friends ears) when playing Project Cars 1, however it does not sound excellent with Project Cars 2. There has been no change in my hardware - there is clearly a problem with the game.

I am sure that most people playing the game are not using high end audio equipment like @Scaff and @IfAndOr but are using the cheaper home cinema in a box type equipment. It seems a strange design decision to make a game which sounds worse than its previous iteration - I can only assume it was a mistake by SMS. Perhaps @IanBell could comment.

The recent changes with the addition of LFE control are welcome, but have had no effect on my tactile transducer system. It is frustrating and disappointing that I was able to enjoy such great effects in Project Cars 1, but I am still getting none from Project Cars 2. It seems that unless SMS are able to patch the audio to be as per the first game, the only way I am going to be able to get good audio and tactile effects is by making expensive upgrades to my equipment. I don't see why I should have to do this - surely it can't be too difficult for SMS to change the design decision which resulted in PC2 being weak when PC1 was a class leader.

I'd actually love for those with upgraded audio equipment to unplug it, throw their USB dongle in the PS4, put their headsets on and play, and then let us know how it sounds to them. Like @Sick Cylinder says, we shouldn't need upgraded audio equipment just to reach volume levels that were present in the previous game, and are available in every other game. Personally, I don't have any complaints about the sound effects. Some may enjoy a more optimized mixing of sounds, but I'm not so fussy. I'd be extremely satisfied with the current sounds - but louder.

And the complete avoidance of comments by any SMS affiliate on this issue is concerning. Neither here or the official PCars 2 forum will find anyone admitting this is an issue. That makes me worry there's no fix coming.

 

[Scaff]

I'd actually love for those with upgraded audio equipment to unplug it, throw their USB dongle in the PS4, put their headsets on and play, and then let us know how it sounds to them. Like @Sick Cylinder says, we shouldn't need upgraded audio equipment just to reach volume levels that were present in the previous game, and are available in every other game. Personally, I don't have any complaints about the sound effects. Some may enjoy a more optimized mixing of sounds, but I'm not so fussy. I'd be extremely satisfied with the current sounds - but louder.

And the complete avoidance of comments by any SMS affiliate on this issue is concerning. Neither here or the official PCars 2 forum will find anyone admitting this is an issue. That makes me worry there's no fix coming.

I have, and I've already explained what I think the issue is and why it should be fixed for all.

 

[ThaFlash_LA]

That’s funny, I feel like today’s games are being made for the lowest common audio denominator. PCars has good sound, I wouldn’t consider it great. There’s a lot more clarity to be had, way more of the frequency range can be used, and it feels like it’s optimized for 2 speaker headsets rather than a 7.2 system.

I briefly owned the PS4 platinum headset, I returned it after a day because even with sony’s Proprietary 3D spatial audio ona first party game, it was pretty inferior to real surround sound.

You won’t have the same quality of audio through lossy codecs and DAC’s and wireless transmitters that you will with dedicated solid state amps and processors, and heavy wired setups nor should you expect to. When it comes to audio there’s still no substitute for size when you want big sound.

 

[diesel97]

I understand that volume is lower than most games but is really an issue? Every game I own I have to adjust the volume. If I played Pcars1 at 25 volume (in general) and I have to play Pcars2 at 35 so what. My volume goes to a 100, just push a few buttons and enjoy. Every different game, shooter, horror, etc need to be adjusted

 

[yogi bear]

I understand that volume is lower than most games but is really an issue? Every game I own I have to adjust the volume. If I played Pcars1 at 25 volume (in general) and I have to play Pcars2 at 35 so what. My volume goes to a 100, just push a few buttons and enjoy. Every different game, shooter, horror, etc need to be adjusted

If it was just a matter of turning a knob. It wouldn't be a problem..... it's the online rooms, balance.