PURE FMSC | Hydra World Championship / HDCS | Pre-Season Discussion

[yzfmike]

I tried out different abs settings in one of my favorite cars. I raced it with ABS 1 like I always have. I raced it with ABS off in the next race. Engine dies if you don't give it gas while downshifting. I use a controller and I tried to keep the revs up, you can do it, but it is difficult to keep it going.

I used R35 TC with RS on Autumn Ring Mini. First race was 1:51:XX. Second race was 1:54:xx. I lit the tires up every corner with ABS off. Its not a driving style I like at all.

 

[CodeRedR51]

It really depends on the car. A couple nights ago I bought an R32 Skyline Type M and kept it completely stock save for suspension and wheels. Did some laps around Laguna without ABS and had a blast. The faster cars are going to be a bit trickier with their sticky tires.

 

[SohnVonStig]

ABS affects the throttle blip as well? That makes no sense. It shouldn't that's for sure...

 

[CSLACR]

Races will be a full hour this time around, so I might say no, but you'll probably have to anyway.

It would be fantastic for a series to have pit stops not mandatory, so long as going the distance is at least theoretically possible.

Whatever the situation, I just like to see tire saving actually pay off, after the 1st race I had thought it would in FMSC 3, but it only did in the first and last race.

I raced it with ABS off in the next race. Engine dies if you don't give it gas while downshifting.

That means you were locking the drive wheels.

 

[Dr_Watson]

seems like a good place to leave this bit of miata abuse.

 

[OwensRacing]

seems like a good place to leave this bit of miata abuse.

Sure wish we could get those stick on faux vents in GT5.

 

[CodeRedR51]

In early January I'm going to need you guy's help picking the two custom tracks that we'll run in the series. I'm making sure they flow well and don't have any jumps right now, then I'll start sharing them so that you guys can do some practice races on them and finally decide the best two.

Also, since I'm not racing this season I would still like to see my car on track, so I will be posting something up tonight that a few of you might be interested in.

 

[Green]

I tried a few lap on seca today with no ABS ...... I'm scared to touch the brakes ended up with brakes at 1/0 lol. Just really struggled in heavy braking zone like the 1st and last corner, has anyone got tips or something would be most appreciated

 

[Wardez]

Just don't use full brakes? When going without ABS I find myself fluctuating my brake a lot. I'm never just holding down the brake at a certain travel distance, I tend to kind of do a bouncing motion. Helps find the sweet spot. Although I don't know if you're using a wheel :x

 

[CodeRedR51]

Just don't use full brakes? When going without ABS I find myself fluctuating my brake a lot. I'm never just holding down the brake at a certain travel distance, I tend to kind of do a bouncing motion. Helps find the sweet spot.

Ditto.

 

[carracerptp]

I tried a few lap on seca today with no ABS ...... I'm scared to touch the brakes ended up with brakes at 1/0 lol. Just really struggled in heavy braking zone like the 1st and last corner, has anyone got tips or something would be most appreciated

I'm in the same boat.... It's funny as I actually find driving with ABS off easier with a control
I tried a brake balance of 0/0 and it worked the best.

 

[Green]

Thanks will give it a go, I'm using DFGT so pedal control isn't that great as they feel very soft. But I guess it will just take a wee bit of time to get used to, So would you guys have a lower brake bias with no ABS or just brake less while driving ?

 

[Wardez]

Yeah I keep bias the same, just brake less.

ABS on just allows you to have an all or nothing brake style.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Thanks will give it a go, I'm using DFGT so pedal control isn't that great as they feel very soft. But I guess it will just take a wee bit of time to get used to, So would you guys have a lower brake bias with no ABS or just brake less while driving ?

Bungee cords!

 

[Green]

Bungee cords!

Might give that a go if I can't get the hang of it, is it alot better with bungee cords ?

Also looking forward to trying your new tracks really liked that last one 👍

 

[CodeRedR51]

Might give that a go if I can't get the hang of it, is it alot better with bungee cords ?

Also looking forward to trying your new tracks really liked that last one 👍

I like it. Any resistance is certainly better than none, which is how they are now.

If you click the link in my signature for "Custom Tracks" I have a few posted here that I think are good. I also have a huge back-log of tracks that need to be put up but I haven't found the time.

 

[CSLACR]

Bungee cords!

Yes.👍

The main key to ABS is learning how far is to far, it's exactly the same but reversed of TCS. Start by going easy though, because the consequences can be more severe.

 

[Dr_Watson]

I tried a few lap on seca today with no ABS ...... I'm scared to touch the brakes ended up with brakes at 1/0 lol. Just really struggled in heavy braking zone like the 1st and last corner, has anyone got tips or something would be most appreciated

Threshold braking is the hardest skill in racing and what separates the aliens form the normals. It's even harder in a sim where it isn't as easy for the car to talk to you.

Skidding you're most commonly familiar is that the deceleration of the car exceeds the static friction of the tire's contact patch with the road. Now on top of that; Mr. Newton tells us that a disc that is spinning quickly will require more force to stop it by static friction with another surface than a disc which is spinning slowly. So as you decelerate your wheels continue to spin slower until the instant where the force being applied by the brake calipers hits the point where it equalizes with the rotational force of the disc and static friction locks the wheels.

When the tires lose grip this is also what locks the brakes, it's just instantaneous because once the contact patch of the tire loses grip the discs lose that torque greatly reducing the force needed to lock-up the brakes.

So... knowing that the fastest you can stop a car would be applying 99% of the force required to break the tires grip, and 99% of the force required to lock the brakes. The tire grip won't really change in a particular corner only over time with wear and temperature. So as the tires wear you need less pressure over-all which really translates to initial bite pressure.
Part two, as the car decelerates you want to remain that 99% force from the brake surface but the actual force reduces with acceleration of the disc so you need to continually reduce the brake pressure.

TL;DR
The initial bite of how hard you mash the pedal depends on your tires grip. Once you find that you need to find a feel for the brake pressure since you need to release the brake pedal as you're slowing down.

 

[Green]

Cool, so in theory just find the maximum amount of brake that can be applied without locking up then gradually reduce the amount of braking during deceleration.

 

[Dr_Watson]

Cool, so in theory just find the maximum amount of brake that can be applied without locking up then gradually reduce the amount of braking during deceleration.

Yep. Most people do this even with the ABS since it is still faster; but where the ABS helps you is by taking the razor thin margins of error before friction lock-up and putting a governor there so when you exceed the threshold it relieves pressure for you.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

I've experimented with no ABS before and I actually like the feel of it. I will need to bungee cord the pedal and practice, a lot! I know in my situation, I have the luxury of time but I'm not so sure of others. That, and anyone using a controller is in a significant disadvantage and there's at least one or two that have shown excellent times with the pad so I'm not sure that's fair to them.

Begrudgingly, I'm leaning towards voting no on going without ABS.

 

[CodeRedR51]

I haven't changed anything in regards to ABS, I was just leaving it up to you guys to decide.

 

[Wardez]

Yeah I say keep ABS allowed. We have enough new things planned on being used for the first time in season 4 so we don't need something that randomly dropped on our laps thrown into the mix too.

It would be good to disallow it for a future series.

 

[NEPALII]

Cool, so in theory just find the maximum amount of brake that can be applied without locking up then gradually reduce the amount of braking during deceleration.

This is what I did with the Miata, but can't do it on faster cars like the GT500. That's why I prefer slower cars

Haven't tested no ABS in GT5 but if it brings more realism to the whole driving experience them Im up for it.

 

[OutlawQuadrnt]

It would be good to disallow it for a future series.

That, I agree with. I'm thinking the McLaren F1 since it has no ABS IRL.

 

[CodeRedR51]

You guys will be happy to know that I have acquired a nice GT-R pace car.

I think PD should have a RM-esque package for all cars that turns them into pace cars. Epicness.

 

[carracerptp]

You guys will be happy to know that I have acquired a nice GT-R pace car.

I think PD should have a RM-esque package for all cars that turns them into pace cars. Epicness.

The SLS pace car would be cool, any corvette pace car would be awesome.

 

[yzfmike]

The SLS pace car would be cool, any corvette pace car would be awesome.

Totally agree. Turbo, I just got the pacecar myself too. Its not a bad car at all, since its a Skyline. I wonder if there is photos of the real car in the wilds of the internets.

 

[CodeRedR51]

Was there actually a real car?

 

[Green]

Don't think it was a real pace, think it's just (a old school) version of Fuji's Pace Car with some GT5 stickers