PURE | GATE - Suzuka

[twistedfirework]

If everyone sends a fr to THE_PURE_LOUNGE I will accept all now 👍

 

[Biffy]

If everyone sends a fr to THE_PURE_LOUNGE I will accept all now 👍

Personally I'd prefer to test in a public lounge. After all we will be racing public and the times won't match up if we do testing in a private one.

 

[pLc2563]

pure or the pure lounge

 

[twistedfirework]

Personally I'd prefer to test in a public lounge. After all we will be racing public and the times won't match up if we do testing in a private one.

Good point. No worries. 👍

 

[twistedfirework]

pure or the pure lounge

The psn is THE_PURE_LOUNGE

 

[Z Crazy]

It can give a false positive of sorts though... it doesn't account for cornering ability and therefore apex speed, or traction and ability to get back on the throttle in exits. The FTO has better acceleration than the IS350 for example but the understeer means you can't carry as much speed into a corner and can't get on the throttle as fast, so in most exits the IS350 seems to have better acceleration than the FTO. It takes a very long straight before the FTO can gain advantage.

I can definately appreciate your point, but my findings for those cars are a little different. I found the FTO being quite a bit better in nearly all aspects. With that said, I won't discount what you say because I do think its a valid a point.

 

[CSLACR]

I used T3 at the exit of NASCAR 2 at Daytona road to measure acceleration and the top speed entering turn 1 braking point.All of the cars in spec B reached 144-145 mph at T3 and 157-160 top speed.I used the Lexus IS350 as my baseline along with the season 3 specs.

There is no success ballast so why do cars need weight checks? I would only add weight to any cars if its the last tuning option left.

Good point, it's only for any cars that need mandatory ballast for specs, for example, the FTO and GTR I believe are both being tested with ballast, but of course, it won't apply to the MR's with the odd weight, so lol.

I have stuck with tracks we race because its a more realistic test of the cars.The speed measurements are just one part of the overall test.

Maybe a 50-160 mph speed test would reveal something?

Race tracks/spots are perfect, and IRC is good for it. The one catch with tracks is that power bands, gearing, and even specific distances can vary the results, outright acceleration I believe is best tested with 1/4 mile trap speed with these cars, they should be doing about 110-120mph I believe, which is right about where the Lexus loses it's pull, making it a perfect spot before top speed drag starts to play in.
It also tests how quickly a car can get off the line, and is a generally fantastic indicator of acceleration grip, which is totally and completely 100% not related to cornering grip.

It can give a false positive of sorts though... it doesn't account for cornering ability and therefore apex speed, or traction and ability to get back on the throttle in exits. The FTO has better acceleration than the IS350 for example but the understeer means you can't carry as much speed into a corner and can't get on the throttle as fast, so in most exits the IS350 seems to have better acceleration than the FTO. It takes a very long straight before the FTO can gain advantage.

Good points, and actual exit speed is a huge factor, but it's very difficult to measure, and acceleration grip and acceleration are perfectly tested for most vehicles in the 1/4 mile.
Plus you get this: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AiBhTnDrG1tMdGMzU0ZoUHd6REZIVmhhU3Y3Qm9ZT3c#gid=0

Another very important thing is to remember that under steer can and will be dialed out by drivers in the season, so if the FTO is suffering from a corner entry push, it's actually a quicker car than it's showing on face currently.

 

[WiiFreak]

1472-6681-3158-0098-0111

This room is closed now by the way

 

[IforceV8]

Route X test.
50 mph rolling start @ 1000m sign
mph at 2000m
mph at 3000m
gearbox's set final to min-top speed to min-then top speed back to 177 mph in the upper box for all cars except the 03 Arta.Top speed for that car 203 mph because of powerband.

Cars in testing sheet B-spec
2000m 3000m
GT300's
IS350 -- 145 159
Arta 08 -- 146 160
RX-7 -- 146 160
Arta 03 -- 147 161
Imp 03 -- 147 161
Celica -- 147 162

GT500's
Bandai -- 146 158
Eneos -- 146 159
Woodone -- 146 159
Epson -- 147 160

Others
R8 -- 146 160
M3 -- 147 160
Abt TT -- 146 159
Astra -- 146 160

The FTO
325 hp/1100kg -- 145 160
335 hp/1130 kg-- 146 162

The FTO doesnt have enough aero drag to fit in with the other cars here.A FTO vs MR-S battle would make for a interesting race along with some of the other low grip race cars.

 

[Z Crazy]

^That's about what I expected. Except for the R8, I fully expected that to be far out and way the fastest thing.

 

[DA6righthand]

I might tag along im starting to regret doing Toca over this for the first 3 weeks . Hopefully this gets pushed back a few weeks so I can do more races .

I'm really wanting to enter but I dont think weekends will work for me. Last I checked, races will be on Saturdays...I'll reread it again. I'm free every weeknight except Thursday. Big import/domestic car meet each Thursday keeps me busy.

 

[OwensRacing]

Who is winning this?

 

[awr117]

Looking good guys. Good luck 👍

 

[Denilson]

Who is winning this?

WOW Jeff!!!! 👍
Really nice piece of work there!!

But it won't be me..

How big is it?
Heavy?

 

[CSLACR]

Route X test.
50 mph rolling start @ 1000m sign
mph at 2000m
mph at 3000m
gearbox's set final to min-top speed to min-then top speed back to 177 mph in the upper box for all cars except the 03 Arta.Top speed for that car 203 mph because of powerband.

Cars in testing sheet B-spec
2000m 3000m
GT300's
IS350 -- 145 159
Arta 08 -- 146 160
RX-7 -- 146 160
Arta 03 -- 147 161
Imp 03 -- 147 161
Celica -- 147 162

GT500's
Bandai -- 146 158
Eneos -- 146 159
Woodone -- 146 159
Epson -- 147 160

Others
R8 -- 146 160
M3 -- 147 160
Abt TT -- 146 159
Astra -- 146 160

The FTO
325 hp/1100kg -- 145 160
335 hp/1130 kg-- 146 162

The FTO doesnt have enough aero drag to fit in with the other cars here.A FTO vs MR-S battle would make for a interesting race along with some of the other low grip race cars.

The answer for the FTO as far as speed there is 315HP 1100KG. I might be able to hop on now, if anyone wants to trail me in.


Nice Jeff, that's a really cool prize .....'s going to win.👍

 

[DA6righthand]

That's good stuff Iforce. We ought to try the speed setting that will be most used during the season, which I believe is ~160mph. Because it'll be what's most used during the season. Just a thought.

 

[IforceV8]

177=160 mph in PD land.

FTO 315 hp/1100 kg 144 159

I tried it with turbo-2 and 3 in the hopes that the extra torque would help it like the Arta's but it made no difference.

Last season spec
Impreza 08 146 160
RX-7 '06 147 162

And a change in B-spec
Celica '03 (+50 kg) 146 161

 

[TheMinion]

That trophy looks sexy!

And a change in B-spec
Celica '03 (+50 kg) 146 161

The Celica is getting +50kg?
I was running exactly the same times with the Celica and the RX-7 @ Suzuka.

 

[OwensRacing]

WOW Jeff!!!! 👍
Really nice piece of work there!!

But it won't be me..

How big is it?
Heavy?

6061 Billet Aluminum

3" dia. x .375" thick

Inside is pocketed -0.200" deep.

Not very heavy but I wouldn't want it thrown at me. LoL


The backs will be personalized via engraving.



This idea was designed during WSGTC #1 iirc.



If you search medals plaques trophy you will find smaller trophies you can personalize at a great price. We was going to do medals at one point for the 500 race. Far cheaper route. I'm down for a 5 dollar donation to pure for trophies or something. I'm not talking me making them. I won't have time to do many others. Use one of larger websites and order as needed. It's late. Ignore any goofy stuff in my post.

 

[twistedfirework]

It would be a mistake to alter any of the wsgtc3 specs, other than the Subaru 08. IMO. Every car doesn't have to have the same top speed and rate of acceleration. Each car has its own strength and weaknesses. For example, the Lexus has the lowest top speed, yet has the stronger engine and better tyre wear. we should just improve slightly the Subaru '08 and then find a few extra cars to compliment what we already have.

 

[Wardez]

I believe we should keep testing the formula instead of trying to deny any possibility in improvement.

Just remember the saying, ideas (spec's in this case) aren't like fine china, they're like paper cups, if one has a hole in it throw it away and get another.

So, every one, test on, what's the worse that can happen, we can't find anything better and stick to the spec's we have now? Then we'll know for sure how worthy they are.

And a timeline for you all:

1. Now - Testing continues from here till the 18th of May. Do your best to post all collected times on the provided spreadsheet or here and we will do it for you.
2. Friday, 18th of May - We will choose the specifications (if we haven't unofficially agreed on one already) to use for the following day's pre-season race.
3. Saturday, 19th of May - GATE's kicked off, brace for epic: 20:00GMT

Testing will go on in order to find our final set of cars and specifications until the 18th of May. By that time we should have if not the final, at most a couple of good spec's and we will then choose the set we're going to use for the season.

I haven't had much time myself to do testing but I fully intend to put in just as much time for testing all the cars here as I am for preparing CALM over the next couple weeks so it's going to be a really fun time in my opinion. We've already laid the groundwork and foundation, now it's time to commence building our solid iridium fortress.

 

[CSLACR]

My 2 cents on top speed, as in, flat out, 160+, is it doesn't matter as long as we don't run Sarthe.
Yes, these cars will hit 160 on other tracks, but barely. Gaining an extra 5-10 mph of speed in the end of the straight while another car only gains 3-6 mph doesn't really help any car run faster laps by very much at all.
In other words, a car in IForce's test running 147-155 would fare almost as well through the fastest section of a high-speed track as a car running 144-162.

Sarthe is the one track that makes us "need" to worry about true top speed, so if we're not running, it's not a big deal imo.

IForce's test at markers on IRC is a really good indicator of both how quickly these cars can reach 145(ish) out of a corner, and how quickly they can accelerate at high speeds.

 

[Sail IC]

My 2 cents on top speed, as in, flat out, 160+, is it doesn't matter as long as we don't run Sarthe.
Yes, these cars will hit 160 on other tracks, but barely. Gaining an extra 5-10 mph of speed in the end of the straight while another car only gains 3-6 mph doesn't really help any car run faster laps by very much at all.
In other words, a car in IForce's test running 147-155 would fare almost as well through the fastest section of a high-speed track as a car running 144-162.
.

Totally agree. What I think is important that every car should a fair chance to make pass on every other car. How easy/difficult will be is a combination of acceleration and top speed.

Top speed is easy to measure. It can perhaps be argued that if the RX8 has a top speed advantage over the Lexus at 260-270kmh, it will also have an advantage at 200-210kmh. The Lexus has however has a better power-to-weight ratio, so it will accelerate better at low speeds but the faster the cars go, the advantage will swing over to the RX7. Complicated to measure to say the least.

To be practical, I think the best would be to have all the new cars to be within the same speed and power-to-weight ratio ranges as the GT300 cars, and the do some some informal test races to make sure it works in racing.

It would be good if we could post some spec suggestions for new cars for other to test. Here is my list so far.

BMW M3: 345hp/1140kg
Audi A4: 345hp/1140kg
Vauxall: 335hp/1120kg

 

[Vagabond]

Yeah I agree with that Dom. 👍

For the FTO I currently propose 325bhp 1100kg.

BMW M3: 345hp/1140kg

My tests so far show that the M3 would likely wipe the floor with most everything with that much power.... I've been testing it at 325bhp. Obviously my experience will not be the same as everyone else and it may just be that the M3 suits my driving more or it has a better stock setup.

 

[IforceV8]

Here are the Route X numbers in season 3 spec.
My improved specs in ( )

Car 2000m 3000m
IS350 -- 145 159
Arta 08 -- 145 160 (146-160)
Imp 08 -- 145 160
Arta 03 -- 146 161 (147-161)
Imp 03 -- 147 161
Rx7-06 -- 147 162 (146-160)
rx7-04 -- 147 162
Celica -- 147 162 (146-161)
MR-S -- 147 164

M3-345 hp stock weight 147-160
M3-345 hp/1140 +20kg 146-160 👍
M3-335 hp stock weight 145-159

It looks like the best ratio for the speeds is 13-14 mph from bottom to top.A low bottom number shows the car is lacking hp/torque.A low/high top number is showing too much/too little downforce.

 

[Wardez]

Totally agree. What I think is important that every car should a fair chance to make pass on every other car. How easy/difficult will be is a combination of acceleration and top speed.

Top speed is easy to measure. It can perhaps be argued that if the RX8 has a top speed advantage over the Lexus at 260-270kmh, it will also have an advantage at 200-210kmh. The Lexus has however has a better power-to-weight ratio, so it will accelerate better at low speeds but the faster the cars go, the advantage will swing over to the RX7. Complicated to measure to say the least.

To be practical, I think the best would be to have all the new cars to be within the same speed and power-to-weight ratio ranges as the GT300 cars, and the do some some informal test races to make sure it works in racing.

It would be good if we could post some spec suggestions for new cars for other to test. Here is my list so far.

BMW M3: 345hp/1140kg
Audi A4: 345hp/1140kg
Vauxall: 335hp/1120kg

New Spec. added to the sheet, "D"

 

[CSLACR]

Did some Nurb F and Route X testing.

FTO - 335HP/1080KG/541PP
vs
Lexus IS350

Nurb F:
Lexus: 2:03.017
FTO: 2:03.067

Top Speed: 141mph each

Comments: The Lexus is actually .2-.4 quicker here than the FTO at these specs, and this is the Lexus best or second best track.(Laguna)
The Lexus has better cornering, the FTO is faster. The FTO would very likely be .2-.4 quicker than the Lexus at Indy or Daytona Road.
My guesstimate for an FTO qualifying lap here is 2:02.5, vs. 2:02.2 for the Lexus.

SSRX:
FTO ran with 80/20 split which worked well for even tire wear for me at Nurb F.

FTO / Lexus​

0-60:

3.523 / 3.691​

0-100:

8.370 / 8.190​

1/4 Mile:

11.972@118 / 12.015@120​

Standing Mile:

30.665@160 / 30.804@156​

Acceleration G:

1.04@ 80.20 / .84​

Side Note: FTO .89@ 90/10 - 1.19@ 70/30
60-100:

4.847 / 4.499​

60-120:

8.449(118) / 8.324​

100-120:

3.602(118) / 3.825​

120-160:

18.693(118-160) / 18.789(156)​

So the Lexus still has the pick up and go to dust this FTO in the mid range area at these specs, getting from 60 to 120 well before the FTO hits 118.
The FTO isn't suffering so much tire wear with the lighter weight.

It almost makes me think 325HP/1060KG is the way to go for the FTO.


I know that seems to go against what I said before about 1100-1200KG cars, and as I started testing I can't figure out why I said that, I know better than to assign physical number restrictions in GT5, because physical numbers don't have a whole lot to do with on-track performance in GT5. I also thought this car would and/or was as good or better at cornering as the Lexus, and it is clearly not, I see that now. Adding weight is the opposite of what we want to do.

 

[OK8]

I've decided to pick the '08 ARTA Garaiya as my car for this season.

 

[Sail IC]

CSL, Lots of interesting data. Not sure how you measure all that.

I've been thinking a bit how power, ballast affects the cars. Here is my take.

Ballast mostly affects acceleration. Not sure it affects top speed that much, but it will take longer time to get there. Different from real life, I don't think ballast affects handling or tire wear at all. If so, at least very little. In some cases, ballast can perhaps even improve handling using to improve the ballance of the car.

Power affects acceleration and top speed (no brainer).

This is how above can be used to make cars fit into the GT300 boundaries.

If a car lacks top speed adding ballast and power will improve top speed but not low speed acceleration. Good example is the BMW M3 which in my view lack top speed. Also I think than many of the old JGTC GT500 will fit in by adding power and ballast.

In the opposite way, the FTO has a slippery shape and will fit in better when using a fairly low power/weight spec.

Just my 2 cents, but I think as people are trying new cars, using above approach to make them fit in works pretty well

 

[Denilson]

Ballast only affects acceleration. Once the car is moving, and the acceleration decreas with the speed rising, ballast is no longer "in play" so to speak.

To get the weight moving is where the ballast does it job. It will not effect top speed.