PURE | JGTS - Going on strong and adapting in the face of change!

[paulmac2k9]

Room 2: ​

PURE JGTS | Pre-Season Race | Laguna Seca | 175 km | Sunday, November 6th | Race Start: 18.00 PM (GMT)​

1. GTF_Apollo - CALSONIC IMPUL GT-R
2. GTP_Aderrrm - TAKATA DOME NSX
3. GV27- - DENSO DUNLOP LEXUS SC430
4. BiffyClyro93 - CALSONIC IMPUL GT-R
5. Dr_Watson (TnJF) - Castrol TOMS SUPRA
6. OwensRacing - NSX ARTA/Stealth
7. joshua1994 - YMS Supra
8. paulmac2k9 - TBD
9.
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.

To sign up: Quote this post -> Remove the [QUOTE']-tags -> Add your name and car -> Post

Ill TBD atm as ive only got a Lexus and Z to spec lol (i should have tested all cars before the race so will update my car in later)
The Dunlop Lexus my fav so far so maybe me and GV could be teammates if its still my prefered car

 

[Müle]

I know I've signed up to race on Sunday, but there is a chance I wont make it, as the 6th is my birthday. I'll try to figure out what my plans are for the day and let you know ASAP. though, since the race is at 1:00 here, it shouldn't be an issue.

 

[GV27]

That'd be good, Paul 👍

To be honest the Dunlop Lexus was always my favourite, but I've always liked the looks of the NSX too. And after the Honda Integra WC, I wouldn't mind racing a Honda. I'm a bit torn between the two

 

[Josh_F]

Room 2:
PURE JGTS | Pre-Season Race | Laguna Seca | 175 km | Sunday, November 6th | Race Start: 18.00 PM (GMT)


1. GTF_Apollo - CALSONIC IMPUL GT-R
2. GTP_Aderrrm - TAKATA DOME NSX
3. GV27- - DENSO DUNLOP LEXUS SC430
4. BiffyClyro93 - CALSONIC IMPUL GT-R
5. Dr_Watson (TnJF) - Castrol TOMS SUPRA
6. OwensRacing - NSX ARTA/Stealth
7. joshua1994 - YMS Supra
8. paulmac2k9 - TBD
9.Josh_F_1998 - Nissan Calsonic GTR 08
10.
11.
12.
13.
14.

To sign up: Quote this post -> Remove the [QUOTE']-tags -> Add your name and car -> Post

 

[Denilson]

Dr_Watson: The CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA is defenetly on par with current specs. Infact I was faster by 2/10th compared to the GT-R during my tests earlier today.

You can not just look at the peak Bhp. It does not indicate the pace at all I'm afraid.
The power curv is much stronger for the SUPRA.
That's why the PP are higher despite it's higher weight and less (peak) bhp.
As I said, I do want your input, but please, do proper testing before.
Not just state why your own car should be faster.
Why did you not mention the Z, that's still on 1150 kg and "only" 502 (peak) bhp. Also because of it's power band. And it's def up to pace at stated specs.
Please have faith in my tests.

 

[HF_NOS]

Sorry Denilson Something came between and thats why I couldn't make it.

 

[CSLACR]

Dr_Watson: The CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA is defenetly on par with current specs. Infact I was faster by 2/10th compared to the GT-R during my tests earlier today.

You can not just look at the peak Bhp. It does not indicate the pace at all I'm afraid.
The power curv is much stronger for the SUPRA.
That's why the PP are higher despite it's higher weight and less (peak) bhp.
As I said, I do want your input, but please, do proper testing before.
Not just state why your own car should be faster.
Why did you not mention the Z, that's still on 1150 kg and "only" 502 (peak) bhp. Also because of it's power band. And it's def up to pace at stated specs.
Please have faith in my tests.

I do agree with this, to a point. Unfortunately actual specs have little to do with on-track performance in GT5.
However, I'm not sure about the newest batch of changes myself, time will tell though.

Here's stock specs for stealths.
NSX - 1100KG, 541HP.
GTR - 1050KG, 571HP.

I found at 608PP (+1PP) on 1130KG the GTR is only running 502HP, excessive limiter use is known to kill a cars PP rating compared to performance, so I reckon this might need at least an extra PP or two over the other GTR's due to how much power limiter it needs.
I'll get a guesstimated PP/Power figure for the NSX up as soon as my Z is done being broken in by bob at Indy.

 

[paulmac2k9]

Denilson trust me Noss is a good racer ive known him in my RLR days winning most races but left RLR (same as me and nepalli) due to dirty and arrogant drivers (PRO ). I can tell you with 100% confedence hes a clean racer with tonnes of skill and would be a great addition to Pure, itd also be interesting to see where he fits in with the aliens we have here 👍 (Aderrrm, Remy ect ect)

 

[Dr_Watson]

Dr_Watson: The CASTROL TOM'S SUPRA is defenetly on par with current specs. Infact I was faster by 2/10th compared to the GT-R during my tests earlier today.

You can not just look at the peak Bhp. It does not indicate the pace at all I'm afraid.
The power curv is much stronger for the SUPRA.
That's why the PP are higher despite it's higher weight and less (peak) bhp.
As I said, I do want your input, but please, do proper testing before.
Not just state why your own car should be faster.
Why did you not mention the Z, that's still on 1150 kg and "only" 502 (peak) bhp. Also because of it's power band. And it's def up to pace at stated specs.
Please have faith in my tests.

FYI, I'm only running the Toms in these practices because no one else is. I don't like seeing one of the cars go completely unrepresented when it doesn't matter who wins.
I have faith in your testing... just seemed like it was the stepchild getting ignored while the spotlight has been on the NSXs.

 

[Denilson]

FYI, I'm only running the Toms in these practices because no one else is. I don't like seeing one of the cars go completely unrepresented when it doesn't matter who wins.
I have faith in your testing... just seemed like it was the stepchild getting ignored while the spotlight has been on the NSXs.

I understand. 👍

The NSX's had to get sorted out, so that's why we (I) started with those.
Now, when they are at a good level, I've started tweaking the rest.
The best way to deal with the cars is one by one. So I dedicate around 3-4 hours of testing/car. That's why it takes a while to plow thru all of them, but I'm getting there. 👍

CSL_ACR: Thank you for the first proper numbers for the stealth's. 👍

I agree with the thing you said about too much powerlimiter kills the performance. Imo, that's because the PP is calculted over the entire rew spectra, and not in the range the gears work.
So a high output at 4500 rpm is nothing worth if you're never below 5000 rpm while racing.
And the sad thing about the PL is that it does not reduce the output in that way that it make the caracter of the engine the same as pre-PL.
The Bhp and tourqe is not reduced in relation to eachother, instead, it lowers the peak Bhp, but as a result the powerband is getting flater (The kind of powerband you'd get in a huge, let's say a 8L V10).
When it would've been best if the powerband and Bhp was decreased in relation to eachother, keeping the caracter but with less output and tourqe.

This is the reason why the Bhp output differs pretty much between the cars, but it's acceleration is similar (XANAVI vs. PETRONAS vs. Z vs. CASTROL vs YMS SUPRA etc I.e).
You could say in general, that the cars with turbo upgrades got less peak Bhp, but better power bands. All in all, it evens out.

So what does peak Bhp do?
It gives you a higher top speed.

So what does a wide power band do?
It gives you a strong acceleration up to the last part of last gear were the few Bhp short can be noticed.

I.e, the SC430's and GT-R are almost identical in pace at all tracks. The slightly faster tracks is where the GT-R will have a minor edge, and the tighter tracks is where the SC430 will benefit from it's strong acceleration.
I might add that those differences are hardly noticeable, but still, just to explain haw I've experianced the cars over the last 12 mounths trying to get them on par in different series.

 

[Denilson]

Denilson trust me Noss is a good racer ive known him in my RLR days winning most races but left RLR (same as me and nepalli) due to dirty and arrogant drivers (PRO ). I can tell you with 100% confedence hes a clean racer with tonnes of skill and would be a great addition to Pure, itd also be interesting to see where he fits in with the aliens we have here 👍 (Aderrrm, Remy ect ect)

I hear you paul. 👍

It's just so sad when I make arrangements to help him out, and when I'm in the room waiting for him, keeping an eye in the thread to look for any response. It turns in to a no show, and time lost for me.

I'll give him 1 more chance only since you're promoting him. 👍

I'm available between 3-5 PM (GMT) Wednesday and Friday this week if he want another run.
I'd love if more of you could join. It will prob be a fun and close sprint race around Monaco. 👍

 

[Dr_Watson]

Wouldn't it have been nice if the power limiter was what they use in the real world not some magical electronic device that flattens out the hp at an arbitrary value. But a plate on the air intake that reduces the volume of air going into the engine to restrict it's power across the entire band.
Adding a 15mm restrictor plate would have been so much nicer than the "oh I'll just set the car to 85% power" that we have now.
(i find it even sillier that they went all GAGA over NASCAR and then left out the simple power limiting device NASCAR uses)

 

[CSLACR]

I understand. 👍

The NSX's had to get sorted out, so that's why we (I) started with those.
Now, when they are at a good level, I've started tweaking the rest.
The best way to deal with the cars is one by one. So I dedicate around 3-4 hours of testing/car. That's why it takes a while to plow thru all of them, but I'm getting there. 👍

CSL_ACR: Thank you for the first proper numbers for the stealth's. 👍

I agree with the thing you said about too much powerlimiter kills the performance. Imo, that's because the PP is calculted over the entire rew spectra, and not in the range the gears work.
So a high output at 4500 rpm is nothing worth if you're never below 5000 rpm while racing.
And the sad thing about the PL is that it does not reduce the output in that way that it make the caracter of the engine the same as pre-PL.
The Bhp and tourqe is not reduced in relation to eachother, instead, it lowers the peak Bhp, but as a result the powerband is getting flater (The kind of powerband you'd get in a huge, let's say a 8L V10).
When it would've been best if the powerband and Bhp was decreased in relation to eachother, keeping the caracter but with less output and tourqe.

This is the reason why the Bhp output differs pretty much between the cars, but it's acceleration is similar (XANAVI vs. PETRONAS vs. Z vs. CASTROL vs YMS SUPRA etc I.e).
You could say in general, that the cars with turbo upgrades got less peak Bhp, but better power bands. All in all, it evens out.

So what does peak Bhp do?
It gives you a higher top speed.

So what does a wide power band do?
It gives you a strong acceleration up to the last part of last gear were the few Bhp short can be noticed.

I.e, the SC430's and GT-R are almost identical in pace at all tracks. The slightly faster tracks is where the GT-R will have a minor edge, and the tighter tracks is where the SC430 will benefit from it's strong acceleration.
I might add that those differences are hardly noticeable, but still, just to explain haw I've experianced the cars over the last 12 mounths trying to get them on par in different series.

My proposed equal specs for the GTR and NSX stealth cars are as follows.

Honda STEALTH GT500 NSX
Bhp: - 523
Weight: 1130 kg
PP: 605 (With Full Aero)
PL: - 96.6%
Allowed Mods: Ridgity Improvement

Comments: While the limiter use is roughly the same as other NSX's, the lack of stage 2 turbo makes this have less lower RPM grunt then the others, so it'll need a bit more of a boost in total power. Adding any mods will likely send power figures and limiter use through the roof, and I prefer using as little as possible for all cars to keep the natural feel of the powerband in tact.


Nissan STEALTH GT500 GT-R
Bhp: - 502
Weight: 1130 kg
PP: 608 (With Full Aero)
PL: - 87.8%
Allowed Mods: Ridgity Improvement

Comments: It has such a flat, useable powerband it's comparable to the likes of only the Xanavi Z, and I expect similar performance from my tests.

Basically these are opposite ends of how they're different from the regulars, the NSX had a slightly worse powerband from not having a mid-rpm turbo like the other NSX's, and the GTR has far and away more power then regular GTR's, so limiter use to a much lower total power is needed.

Of course, my original idea of adding stage 2 turbo's and limiting regular GTR's to around 510HP with the full 1150KG, along with adding some peak power to the slightly slower SC430's at 1150KG is still the way I think we should go. The extra power/powerband for each gives them the grunt other cars here have, the extra weight slows their cornering down closer to par with others to, imo.

 

[Denilson]

Wouldn't it have been nice if the power limiter was what they use in the real world not some magical electronic device that flattens out the hp at an arbitrary value. But a plate on the air intake that reduces the volume of air going into the engine to restrict it's power across the entire band.
Adding a 15mm restrictor plate would have been so much nicer than the "oh I'll just set the car to 85% power" that we have now.
(i find it even sillier that they went all GAGA over NASCAR and then left out the simple power limiting device NASCAR uses)

Yes, totally. 👍

I'm going to give a few cars a run with engine stage x insted of turbo to see it I can keep the car at the same PP with less tourqe and more Bhp in order to even out the differences even more.
Mainly the cars that are PL below 90%.
Down to 85% is ok imo, but the best is to keep it over 90 to reduce the widening of the tourqe curve.
Does that sond like a reasonable idea?

 

[SuperSic]

Hi Denilson, today 5pm GMT is fine by me. which track will it be?

Hey Noss, it's tony1311. Great to see you here, maybe you could bring over a couple of fast guys you know. I remember there was at least one other TRP_xxx who was fairly quick.

PS. Noss is fast guys ,watch out.

 

[HF_NOS]

Haha hi Tony. nice to see you too. I' m trying to get trp_replay to join too. tony vs replay lol, popcorn is already ready it should be a great championship with all the fast and fair people in here.

 

[Denilson]

My proposed equal specs for the GTR and NSX stealth cars are as follows.

Honda STEALTH GT500 NSX
Bhp: - 523
Weight: 1130 kg
PP: 605 (With Full Aero)
PL: - 96.6%
Allowed Mods: Ridgity Improvement

Comments: While the limiter use is roughly the same as other NSX's, the lack of stage 2 turbo makes this have less lower RPM grunt then the others, so it'll need a bit more of a boost in total power. Adding any mods will likely send power figures and limiter use through the roof, and I prefer using as little as possible for all cars to keep the natural feel of the powerband in tact.


Nissan STEALTH GT500 GT-R
Bhp: - 502
Weight: 1130 kg
PP: 608 (With Full Aero)
PL: - 87.8%
Allowed Mods: Ridgity Improvement

Comments: It has such a flat, useable powerband it's comparable to the likes of only the Xanavi Z, and I expect similar performance from my tests.

Basically these are opposite ends of how they're different from the regulars, the NSX had a slightly worse powerband from not having a mid-rpm turbo like the other NSX's, and the GTR has far and away more power then regular GTR's, so limiter use to a much lower total power is needed.

Of course, my original idea of adding stage 2 turbo's and limiting regular GTR's to around 510HP with the full 1150KG, along with adding some peak power to the slightly slower SC430's at 1150KG is still the way I think we should go. The extra power/powerband for each gives them the grunt other cars here have, the extra weight slows their cornering down closer to par with others to, imo.

The problem I have with this is that it will transform the cars and the caracter of the cars too much. I want those pointy powerbands as far as possible.
A bit of difference between the cars is only making things a bit more interesting.. It will be extremely interesting to see how aderrrm and The Outlaw will perform this race with the NSX.. I know I'm screwed with it tho..

 

[paulmac2k9]

I hear you paul. 👍

It's just so sad when I make arrangements to help him out, and when I'm in the room waiting for him, keeping an eye in the thread to look for any response. It turns in to a no show, and time lost for me.

I'll give him 1 more chance only since you're promoting him. 👍

I'm available between 3-5 PM (GMT) Wednesday and Friday this week if he want another run.
I'd love if more of you could join. It will prob be a fun and close sprint race around Monaco. 👍

Thanks Den you wont regret it and 3pm-5pm GMT i could make the last hour as my college ends at around 3-4pm GMT...

 

[CSLACR]

The problem I have with this is that it will transform the cars and the caracter of the cars too much. I want those pointy powerbands as far as possible.
A bit of difference between the cars is only making things a bit more interesting.. It will be extremely interesting to see how aderrrm and The Outlaw will perform this race with the NSX.. I know I'm screwed with it tho..

That's why I picked the Petronas, to see how well the aliens do with the slower car on the track. Of course I'm positive they'll dust me, but I'm interested to see by how much.

Also I'd actually like to switch to the stealth GTR, (for preseason race 2) since that hasn't gotten much wheel time yet, at least from me. See how my theory of power vs powerband plays out exactly, since I know what times I ran with a stock GTR to compare to. (high 21's with possible mid-low 21's) with the extra weight of 30kg, I'm expecting low 22's is about the best I can pull. Yes I suck at Laguna...

Also, I know you'd like to keep the GTR's as close to stock as possible, (I also did, at first) but the thing is, at 1150kg they don't have enough grunt, and at 1130kg's their cornering will be just as much better then the NSX's as stock, essentially. The low rpm turbo with the extra weight made their acceleration, top speed, and cornering all closer to the rest of the field.
I think with all the limiting we need to do for most of the field, running some cars at 100% power, leaving a peaky powerband probably isn't the best way to go anymore. Especially with extra weight to lug around.
Have you tried the GTR at 1150kg with stage 2 turbo limited to around 510HP? (I think it was 608PP IIRC)

 

[Denilson]

Yes, I've tryed the GT-R with turbo.. The AUTECH with engine stage 3..
The power band of the STEALTH as you explained it should do it good around seca dispite it's lower Bhp.. A top speed test at the staright after eau rouge would be great.. I fear it's too slow at 502..
All cars are topping out between 274-276 km/h.. Exept the NSX's.. Around 282ish if I recall.. (At work now so cant double check..

The GT-R's are left at 100% and stock because the GT-Rs are our benchmark.. Adding weight to it was a perfect compromise. I'm not worried at all about the cars actually.

It's just the WOODONE and BANDAI I will have to give a few more hours.

If anyone have any lap times to post, it would be awesome btw 👍
The more the better

 

[Denilson]

And seeing as we're on the topic of bashing those who quit that Room 1 race, I'm going to make my feelings abundantly clear like others have in this thread. First of all I'm not even going to discuss my commitment, I raced every week that I could in WSGTC, Dennis should be able to testify to that. Only race I quit was Daytona because I was just horrible there and there was no point, I was a danger to other cars on the track. All others were disconnects. Second, where the hell is this "ragequitters expect to be winning" attitude coming from? Honestly, the number of great drivers in Room 1 (and 2, for that matter) is ridiculous, so do you seriously think people expect to win? If they do they're obviously in the wrong series. And anyone who thinks I quit because of that has blatantly lost it, because I'm barely in contention for a podium in any race that I'm in. I'd like to win, sure, but if I'm in a race, at the back of the pack with no-one nearby to race with, I'll carry on regardless and go for the finish line, I know full well that anything can happen in the last few laps of a race. Quite simply, it was a pre-season race that started quite late, I have my own schedule to stick to which involves important work to be done, but with a fair amount of leeway for racing, but please, excuse me for quitting a race mid-way because I have some other, 'meagre' real-life commitments. And if I have to even reassure people that I will finish season races, then I'm out of this series.

I know you're a great guy that stay commited. no doubt! 👍
I also know that it was my bad from the wery beginning.
Me and BrosifDuder brought it up mostly for clarification. As you said, it was a pre-season race that started way too late, and the start was a mess.. As I said.. My bad.

 

[CSLACR]

Yes, I've tryed the GT-R with turbo.. The AUTECH with engine stage 3..
The power band of the STEALTH as you explained it should do it good around seca dispite it's lower Bhp.. A top speed test at the staright after eau rouge would be great.. I fear it's too slow at 502..
All cars are topping out between 274-276 km/h.. Exept the NSX's.. Around 282ish if I recall.. (At work now so cant double check..

The GT-R's are left at 100% and stock because the GT-Rs are our benchmark.. Adding weight to it was a perfect compromise. I'm not worried at all about the cars actually.

It's just the WOODONE and BANDAI I will have to give a few more hours.

If anyone have any lap times to post, it would be awesome btw 👍
The more the better

My YMS was hitting 280-281kph, converted from 174mph, maybe even 282.
But there's no way the NSX's aside from the Epson are hitting 282 at current spec. That's the speed I was hitting when I was running around 530HP in the ARTA.
I'll try them both out then and double check, either tonight or tomorrow, my left knee's been bugging me for unknown reasons since last night. Maybe I'll try it with the DS3.

 

[Denilson]

My YMS was hitting 280-281kph, converted from 174mph, maybe even 282.
But there's no way the NSX's aside from the Epson are hitting 282 at current spec. That's the speed I was hitting when I was running around 530HP in the ARTA.
I'll try them both out then and double check, either tonight or tomorrow, my left knee's been bugging me for unknown reasons since last night. Maybe I'll try it with the DS3.

Yea, ofc.. I forgot about the YMS.. It's fast down the straights, that's for sure.. Perhaps I'm mixing the fighures up a bit.. But if the NSX's are slower on the straight, it's a good thing, right. 👍
Cause cornering is pretty close now even tho the NSX is still less stable and twitchy.

When I was testing the RAYBRIG, EPSON, CASTROL SUPRA and Z to day, I ran all cars in the low 15's.. 15,1-15,3.. The RAYBRIG did the lap in 14,9 at spa.
Compared to the tests I did at Monaco, where I got the NSX down to 31,9's (Did a 31,6 with the NSX with the earlier specs) and the GT-R, Z and SC430's in the mid 31's. Still have to try the CASTROL out..

The ENEOS SC430 is similar to the NSX in terms of pace rather than it's sisters DENSO and PETRONAS.

Would love to get times posted with all sorts of cars. Mainly Suzuka, Spa and Monaco.
I'll also post all my tunes I've used for the cars I've tested. I'll put them up in the OP tomorrow. 👍

 

[CSLACR]

I hear you on that, after enough runs on enough specs, everything starts to blur into one big mushy pile.

Very intrigued to see the tunes you put on them all.👍

 

[Denilson]

I hear you on that, after enough runs on enough specs, everything starts to blur into one big mushy pile.

Very intrigued to see the tunes you put on them all.👍

Well, the tunes won't do wonders exactly.. But perhaps something for the guys who search for a tip or two.. The NSX tune I use is one I think most people would like.. At least as a base..

Yes, it's easy to mix up number when you don't got'em in fron of you and pull them out of your head..

But to sum it up a bit:
Imo, the cars are within 0,5 from eachother at any circuit. I'm not saying that as a fact, I'm saying it because that's the results I get when testing. As stated before, 1 car might suit me better than the next one.
That's basically why I ask for lap times with the cars at current specs (Always look in Post 2 for the latest specs sheet), mainly times from Suzuka, Monaco and Spa would be awesome.
The more numbers, the better the outcome.
So please guys, start posting some times. Try to test 3 or 4 cars, cause it will give me (or anyone) a better indication of the differences between the cars. 👍

 

[HF_NOS]

I did with the xanavi gtr 1130 607pp 518 bhp, 2:14.4 at spa. trp_replay calsonic 1130/604/508bhp, 2:13:7 at spa

 

[CSLACR]

I did with the xanavi gtr 1130 607pp 518 bhp, 2:14.4 at spa. trp_replay calsonic 1130/604/508bhp, 2:13:7 at spa

Some pretty wicked times there, I assume trp_replay's Calsonic wasn't fully broken in yet?

 

[Denilson]

HF_NOS: That's some lap times! 👍
I assume you ran full aero?
So is your friend also keen on joining PURE?
If so, it would be perfect if you and him could join my lobby at 4.45 PM (GMT) later today.

Btw, you got any Lap times from Monaco?
Perhaps in any of the other cars as well. Would love to see the difference between the various cars performed by the same driver. 👍

 

[HF_NOS]

Yes full aero. topspeed at spa is only 274. cant see how u guys pull 278 or higher with the gtr. I will try the supras and the lexus. will ask trp_replay to do the same. havent run suzuka or monaco yet. ask Tony to test some cars in the rain. he is really a master in the rain.

Yea today ill be there 100%

 

[HF_NOS]

Some pretty wicked times there, I assume trp_replay's Calsonic wasn't fully broken in yet?

Yes not fully broken yet. Lol it makes me feel so slow when he get those times.