Questioning Religion

[Danoff]

How many witnesses are enough. There's Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul,
James, Mary. Thats plenty enough to prove it in a court of law.

You'd have to prove that they existed first... and put them on the stand. And they still couldn't say that they witnessed the afterlife.

Evolution has thousands of witnesses.

 

[Famine]

How many witnesses are enough. There's Matthew, Mark, Luke, John, Peter, Paul,
James, Mary. Thats plenty enough to prove it in a court of law.

One primary witness, who chronicled the events as they happened - rather than in excess of 40 years later on, would be nice.

It would be nice if they were independant of the character described too, rather than part of a close-knit circle of "apostles" around a religious cult leader.

The Branch Davidians said that David Koresh had other-worldly powers. Then again, they WOULD say that, wouldn't they, seeing as they were part of a close-knit circle of "apostles" around a religious cult leader.

 

[emad]

As far as whether I question it or not, I get the occasional doubt whenever I'm in a really ****ty situation but it's rare that I doubt it any more. But then again, I'm not exactly a strict follower of Islam either. I mean, I pray whenever I remember to and donate to the poor as I'm supposed to, but really that's about it. I don't drink alcohol out of personal choice and frankly, I dont think I'm missing out on much by not eating pork (well, the smell of it kinda bugs me).

Is Islam then the only religion (at least out of the major religions to spring up from the Middle East) that seriously opens up the possibility of evolution and the possibility of life on other planets?

I don't remember any of the exact locations so I had to google. I just found it to be interesting is all

Some science fiction writers have portrayed outer space creatures with monstrous-looking features in their stories, but so far such creatures have remained in the realm of science fiction.

However, the Quran does allude to life in outer space, thus: "And among His signs is the creation of the heavens and the living creatures He has scattered through them." (42.29) And: "The seven heavens and the earth, and beings therein, declare his glory." (17:44)

These verses indicate that there is life in some form or other planets in the galaxies. Until scientific means become more sophisticated to make this discovery, this Quranic statement will remain an unfulfilled prophecy.

Allah Almighty caused you to grow from earth. Surah Hud verse 61

We fashioned you from soil. Surah Hajj verse 5

Allah Almighty is the one who fashioned you from clay. Surah Al Anam verse 2

Allah Almighty the creation of man from clay. Surah As Sajdah verse 7

We fashioned them from sticky clay. Surah As Saffat verse 11

Allah Almighty (God) fashioned man from a clay, like pottery. Surah Ar Rahman verse 14

We fashioned man from the quintessence of clay. Surah Al Muminun verse 11

 

[Famine]

I dont think I'm missing out on much by not eating pork (well, the smell of it kinda bugs me).

Oh man...

Pork rocks. Roast pork with some nice crackling on is fan-smegging-tastic. Nice salty ham sandwiches rule. And of course let us not forget the gammon steak, thick pork sausages and, the ultimate vegetarian-curer, the bacon butty.


Not to stamp all over your religion, like... But seriously. Pork. Mmmmm.

 

[Anderton Prime]

I concur. I enjoy pork roast better than roast beef, better than roast chicken, hell it's even better than turkey. I have also invented a sauce that is a combination of mayonnaise, chopped garlic, and lots of extra hot horseradish to dip the succulent pieces of pork into before shovelling them into my gaping maw.

But, due to danger of being off-topic, I do have to say that being restricted from what you can eat is nonsense. If this world was created by God then everything in it was also presumably created by Him. And I believe it was all created as a sort of stand-in for paradise, with flora and fauna of all sorts to both nourish us (beef, pork, wild game) and offer companionship (dogs, cats, goldfish). Unless you think things like alcohol and everything else you're not supposed to imbibe or ingest as being creations of Satan, in which case shouldn't the cow and the pig be considered his work as well, since there are major religions that prohibit the slaughter and feasting of each of them?

 

[emad]

the reasoning for pork I think is because at the time, it was very easy to acquire nasty things like tapeworm and whatever. Pork is really the only meat I'm not allowed to have... ah well.

For alcohol, the reason it's strictly disallowed is that we're not supposed to ingest anything that puts us in an altered state of mind (it's considered ok if it's for medicinal use though)... but then again, I don't mind getting stoned on weed every once in a while with my friends. The reason I don't drink booze is simply 1) the smell, and 2) my friends do extremely stupid things when they're drunk - that doesn't happen when we're high.

I concur. I enjoy pork roast better than roast beef, better than roast chicken, hell it's even better than turkey. I have also invented a sauce that is a combination of mayonnaise, chopped garlic, and lots of extra hot horseradish to dip the succulent pieces of pork into before shovelling them into my gaping maw.

Just so you know, Mayonaise is the root of all that is evil. All mayo should be put into a giant pit and burnt! Seriously, I can't stand mayo on anything

 

[Anderton Prime]

I've heard of people who believe smoking weed / drinking alcohol is the only way to put yourself in the necessary state to be close to God and to see the glory of life and the world.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

This is a thread about faith, or the lack of, beliefs, religion ,etc. Isn't it? If it is, then my comments are in line with the Topic and not in need of an apology or toning to suit what someone else may or may not agree with, as likewise your's should not be. I'm not surprised or dismayed that some find it offensive, thats the same reaction that put Jesus on the cross 2000 years ago. I can only tell you, and its an absolute certainty, that one day you will die. (I hope you scientific guys can concede that) and your soul will leave your body and it will go one of two places, Heaven or Hell. Heaven if you have accepted Jesus as your Savior. Hell if you don't. Evolution won't be able to save you, Your intelect won't be able to save you, Science won't be able to save you. Only one can, JESUS. So believe whatever you like, but when that time comes remember that name and call it out. All that call on the name of the LORD shall be saved.

 

[Anderton Prime]

Who was asking for an apology?

 

[Duke]

I can only tell you, and its an absolute certainty, that one day you will die. (I hope you scientific guys can concede that)

Yup! Most assuredly. With you 100% here - couldn't agree more. In fact I'm expecting that to happen sometime in the next 40 years or so with absolute certainty.

... and your soul will leave your body and it will go one of two places, Heaven or Hell.

Oh, sorry, you lost me. I've got a soul, you bet - but it's going out like a candle in the wind approximately 5-7 minutes after my heart stops delivering enough oxygen to it.

Game over.

Who was asking for an apology?

For that matter, who was asking to be saved?!

 

[blargonator]

Jesus Christ WAS his name. As mine is let's say...Bob. Does that mean I am now Bob, Joe, John, and Dave too? Or are those just renderings...?

i thought it was technically jesus of nazareth? christ also meaning messiah or ideal type of humanity.
i was taught people at the time had names like (strictly an example) blargonator of michigan, if there were two blargonators in michigan the larger one would be blargonator the greater and the smaller one known as blargonator the lesser.

 

[Gil]

Every chromosome in the human cell has a telomere - a sequence of repeating bases on each end of the chromosome. These telomeres reduce in length each time the cell divides. When the telomeres are gone, the chromosomes become gradually more and more eroded until they mutate and go insane or they activate an apoptosis marker and kill themselves.

Human cells are NOT made to live forever.

The Bible makes no mention of this.

I'm a couple of days out on this, so somebody may have already answered this.
However, the Bible does cover this. See Hebrews 9:27
"It is appointed to man once to die, then the Judgement."

There is more about "eternal life" following the Judgement. But I'll save that for another time.

I guess that I'll have to go back and read all this and supply some biblical answers.

 

[Danoff]

I can only tell you, and its an absolute certainty, that one day you will die.

I'm gonna go with 99.99999% certainty. I'm leaving a .00001% chance that I'll live forever.

 

[Gil]

On the origin of the Bible, the King of Judea had it written as a political statement, and he wanted to state the importance of his own Kingdom.
At this time it had no structure, no verses or chapters, it was re-written every year, new parts included, some parts excluded.

The Bible as we know today, with its Gospels and chapters was actually first written buy a Roman emperor in AD 340, and known as the Codex Vaticanus. He wanted to bring order to it, and have a single book, rather than many versions, he also added his own beliefs and threw away ones he didn't like

The Gospel according to Mary (which turned up on the German black market ) is still rebuked by Christians, as it paints a very different picture. There are other Gospels that have been lost over the years, or deliberately thrown away as the direction of the religion changes.

All the Gospels contradict each other, few people actually read the whole Bible, so they are not aware. Take for example the most famous story, the Nativity. Two Gospels (Luke and John) fail to mention the birth of Christ at all, they start with Jesus as a man. Matthew and Mark mention the birth, but only Matthew talks about wise men and Shepherds.

It has been said that if the Gospels were eye witness accounts for a murder...with so many discrepancies, it would not even make it to court

So, you're assuming contradiction because the stories start at different points in the life of Christ?
I bet your mother's story of your birth and your father's story are quite a bit different. And they were likely in the same room at the same time.
In other words/or, For example, if you prefer, if I see something from the air, and you see something from the ground, and someone else sees the same event from the sea, our stories are supposed to be exactly the same?
Matthew saw a lot of what happened in the life of Jesus, Mark saw some of the same stuff, and some different stuff, Luke saw some different things as well, and being a doctor, probably had a different, more clinical view of things.
Just because two ouf your friends know about you, doesn't mean if they set out to tell the story of a part of your life, they will tell exactly the same things.
The gospels do not contradict each other, and the main theme of the gospels remains the same.

On the subjects of pork and alcohol.
The Bible doesn't say anywhere not to eat pork. There is a parable where a sheet full of animals both "clean" and "unclean" is let down before Peter, and he is told to rise up, kill, and eat.
In the book of Romans the 14th chapter is says don't eat of certain things, if by doing so you will cause another to sin.
Christ turned water into wine for a wedding feast, and the qualifications of a deacon, say a man wishing to be a deacon should not be given to much wine. Also Luke told Timothy to take a little wine for his stomach's sake.
Drunkeness is condemned, but not drinking. Probably because not all water supplies were safe to drink from in that day as well as this one.
I'd like to believe that the tenet of the Bible is that it's okay to eat pork, and drink alcohol as long as you don't let either thing control you, and your doing so does not cause another to sin.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Who was asking for an apology?

It was insinuated that I was forcing my beliefs on others and or trying to ram it down their throats.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Yup! Most assuredly. With you 100% here - couldn't agree more. In fact I'm expecting that to happen sometime in the next 40 years or so with absolute certainty.
Oh, sorry, you lost me. I've got a soul, you bet - but it's going out like a candle in the wind approximately 5-7 minutes after my heart stops delivering enough oxygen to it.Game over.
For that matter, who was asking to be saved?!

Ureka we finally found something we agree on
How do you know you have a soul.
No one that I recall.

 

[Ten]

Nobody that I recall.
How do you know you have a soul.

I suppose he'll just have to have faith then, won't he?

Oh how this topic amuses me. ^^

I think I may just stick around and see where it ends. I have faith in an inevitable lock, personally. A veritable "end of posts".

Oh my. That was rather corny of me. Ah well...

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I suppose he'll just have to have faith then, won't he?

Oh how this topic amuses me. ^^

I think I may just stick around and see where it ends. I have faith in an inevitable lock, personally. A veritable "end of posts".

Oh my. That was rather corny of me. Ah well...

Glad to see your back. I had a feeling curiosity would get the best of you.
Yes he will.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I'm gonna go with 99.99999% certainty. I'm leaving a .00001% chance that I'll live forever.

Your gonna go with 100% certainty. How did you arrive at those figures?

 

[Ten]

Glad to see your back. I had a feeling curiosity would get the best of you.
Yes he will.

Curiousity is what leads me to my answers. Right now I'm just trying to figure out how deep you're going to dig yourself by running circles around the questions you're faced with. It's quite an amusing watch.

Perhaps I'm only egging you on. May God give you the strength to put up with my smart remarks.

 

[Duke]

How do you know you have a soul.

Because, in the immortal words of Renee Descartes:

I think; therefore - I am.

There is a consciousness here that I define as "me", which receives auditory, olfactory, tactile, and visual stimuli from the world around me. That consciousness is capable of processing this information and using it to make predictions based on observed phenomena. This ability to make informed decisions from predictions based on objective reality is called 'rational thought'.

And therein resides my soul.

 

[a6m5]

XVII:

Let's say there was an creator, who's to say it was the Christian God?
(In response to above)
It's good to hear that you can accept that. ( a Christian with an open mind )

open mind?! main streamlined christianity is that there is only one God and one Creator of the universe...not much you can do about that

I think you misunderstood me(and also what tacet was saying).

Here is what I was actually saying:

You shouldn't mock other faiths and you should respect them, but I don't think you have to accept validity in their faith. Just my opinion.
I already know how some members here doesn't believe in God, because there isn't an proof of his(my belief there) existence. I guess where we differ is when I see our world, I see an "purpose" and you don't. I believe there was an creator and I'd like to believe that was God, but yes, I could be wrong. Let's say there was an creator, who's to say it was the Christian God? I believe in God and Jesus, but just because I believein them doesn't mean I can guarantee my belief is correct.
Again, I'd like to stress that just because you are religious or non-religious, it does not make you better than the other. Believing in Creator should be an personal choice, and if your friend accepts God, respect him for it. If they don't believe in God, you respect him for that too. Just don't be an hater. In our history, people have argued and fought over this, actually, some still do this. It's not worth it!

I wasn't saying that I'm an open-minded christian, who thinks the creator might not be christian God. I was just saying, we should all respect other peoples' religious(or non-religious) beliefs.

 

[Pako]

In Bob Dylan's famous words, "You gotta serve somebody, it may be the devil or it my be the Lord, but you gotta serve somebody".

It is my Christian belief that we were made to bring God pleasure and to serve his command. Our actions of worship in everything we do brings joy to God! That's powerful stuff in my estimation. It's really a selfish thing to worship God because I get so much joy and fullfillment out it. If God isn't real, He sure feels real.

I dare not dive too deep in this discussion as I have related many opinions in the past on this board, but will contribute new/different information as I am inspired to do so.

 

[Delirious]

oh, sorry...thought thats what you believed, i totally respect what others believe...even if i do not believe in it

it's useless giving these guys proof that God does exist...we could give them all the proof in the world...but they will not believe unless they have faith in God and repent of their sins,

evidence is not what will lead them unto believing...but that we beed to pray that God will convict their hearts of their sins that they need a savior from those sins and save them an eternity without God...and to pray that they lose their intellectual pride and listen to their hearts instead, because were only speaking to their minds, not their hearts...

 

[Pako]

I guess I don't feel it is anyone's place except God to judge another persons heart. Judge not or let thee be judged..... We're all Children of God and He loves each and everyone of us. I would pray that we might all find the willingness to accept Jesus as our personal Savior and to look towards God for direction and guidance in our lives.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

Curiousity is what leads me to my answers. Right now I'm just trying to figure out how deep you're going to dig yourself by running circles around the questions you're faced with. It's quite an amusing watch.

Perhaps I'm only egging you on. May God give you the strength to put up with my smart remarks.

What do you mean by "running circles around the questions" I'm answering them aint I. EGG ON BABY.

 

[SuperCobraJet]

I guess I don't feel it is anyone's place except God to judge another persons heart. Judge not or let thee be judged..... We're all Children of God and He loves each and everyone of us. I would pray that we might all find the willingness to accept Jesus as our personal Savior and to look towards God for direction and guidance in our lives.

Amen brother!

 

[a6m5]

No problem XVII.

I think you and SuperCobra did an good job trying to tell everyone about the bible and Christianity. Unfortunately, as Anderton try to tell you guys before, this isn't a good place to do it. Members you've been debating with, they made up their mind about God long time ago. Just like how you won't change your mind about God, they won't change theirs either, at least not this way.

SuperCobraJet: You have an amazing personality. 👍

 

[SuperCobraJet]

oh, sorry...thought thats what you believed, i totally respect what others believe...even if i do not believe in it

it's useless giving these guys proof that God does exist...we could give them all the proof in the world...but they will not believe unless they have faith in God and repent of their sins,

evidence is not what will lead them unto believing...but that we beed to pray that God will convict their hearts of their sins that they need a savior from those sins and save them an eternity without God...and to pray that they lose their intellectual pride and listen to their hearts instead, because were only speaking to their minds, not their hearts...

Rest assured, their thinking about it. Were planting seed. It takes a while for it to
come up and bear fruit. Don't despair but be of good courage. Remember also that
the carnal mind cannot discern the things of the spirit. BTW what is the status of
your thread on OLR. It was closed when I was over there earlier.

 

[Ten]

That's all we're trying to say. You have your creed, we have ours. Leave it at that.