READ THE OP! GTP Cool Wall Nomination Thread [Always accepting more cars!]
- Thread starter Snikle
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- GTP_RogerTheHors
The DeLorean was originally built in Northern Ireland.
I am aware that in recent years production has restarted in Texas, but it is still fundamentally a Northern Irish car.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
Yeah, this again. Because some of us like to think that if you pay $30,000 for something, it should be a quality product. But I guess quality is unimportant in America.
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- Murcie LP710
That's a pretty interesting excuse for it.
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- Vantage7825
Hey, listen... I'm American and I couldn't agree more. The Big Three care nothing about quality whatsoever. Our cars are pure **** except for a couple here and there. It's not the people designing and engineering the cars that are responsible though, it's the people running the company. If American designers and engineers were given as much freedom and money to design a car like the Germans, American cars would be just as good, if not better. Like I said, the guys out for a higher profit margin control the people who design the cars 100%. Everything they do has to be approved by those same guys.
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The thing is, in a muscle car, quality is measured by how fast it goes and how well it holds together while going fast, not by how soft the interior is. And for a V6 muscle car, the new Camaro does a pretty decent job at those things.
Where fine interior materals really start to matter is around the $50K level, and I'll admit the Corvette C6 was pretty subpar in that way. I think some of the plastics were worse than the ones they used for my Sunbird. But at lower cost levels, I'd rather have $30K worth of speed than $30K worth of refinement.
- 12,389
- Betelgeuse
- Beeblebrox_237
You can have $30k worth of speed and $30k worth of refinement. The Camro V6 goes from 0 to 60 in 5.9 seconds. The Genesis Coupe V6 does it in 5.4, while handling better. The previous generation Honda Accord coupe 6MT did it in 5.9, with a beautiful, luxurious interior and a manual gearbox, though it probably doesn't handle as well.
Now, you won't understand this, but my point is that the Camaro V-6 is not as fast as you seem to think. It's not slow, but you can get cars that will beat it for teh same price, and those cars have interiors that are 100 times better. A sane person wouldn't deliberately buy an uncomfortable office chair because it rolls a little faster or it looks a bit better, so why do the same thing with a car?
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- Vantage7825
Exactly.
- 15,460
- Orange County, NY
- GTP_GT916
- Nii916
- 149
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- Vantage7825
Haha... That's what they want you to think. The only good American cars right now are coming from Tesla, SSC, and a couple other really small companies.
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- GTP_GT916
- Nii916
I actually do hate a lot of American cars, but I can't really say that they all just totally suck.
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And was FWD and an entirely different market segment, so not really an apples-to-apples comparison. I also have a bit of trouble referring to the Hyundai Genesis as a muscle car.
Well, first, a car is not an office chair. There are many more dimensions to it - the way it looks, the way it sounds, how fast it goes, steering feel, and so forth. Based on that post, I suspect you really do view a car as an appliance and nothing more.
Two, I never said to deliberately seek out an uncomfortable car. I just said interior poshness isn't really relevant to this price level and market segment.
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- Phoenix, AZ
Not really. A V6 Camaro feels average, but not awful. All of the materials are of acceptable quality. The Spark feels much, much worse, like a product from old GM, but you have to keep in mind that it's a $12k car. The Camaro does not have an awful interior. It does have awful visibility, though.
Because Camaros are just comprised of brittle, fragile plastics and fall apart as soon as you drive off the lot, right? No. Like I said before, the interior is acceptable.
If I'm not mistaken, quite a few ragged on the previous generation Accord ('08-'12) because of its plasticcy (by Honda standards) interior, too many buttons and uncomfortable leather seats.
That analogy is flawed. There are plenty of people who will buy cars with cheaper interiors, not so good looks or a lack of creature comforts or overall comfort because it's fun. See, perhaps the Camaro that you think has an awful interior. Cars and office chairs are not used for the same purpose.
I actually do hate a lot of American cars, but I can't really say that they all just totally suck.
This. There are a lot of crappy American cars. A lot. But if you say that every single American car ever produced sucks, you're ignorant.
I abhor the cheap crappy american cars of the last century too, but this is completely false. Ford and GM have made grand strides in the past decade, and Chrysler...well Ford and GM are doing better than ever.
Really though, there's hardly such a thing as a "bad" car today. Between extensive globalization and continuous improvements in technology, engineering, and materials, everyone's pretty much on the same page now. What makes a good car has been kind of nailed down at this point. As Road&Track pointed out in their review of the Model S, Tesla's world-class execution on practically their first try is evidence of that.
Not all american cars today are great or exemplary, but if you think nothing coming out of Detroit is any good, you should pay closer attention. Times change. 👍
McLaren
Premium
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Uh, considering the price of the cars these small American-based companies are producing, they better be good.
Other than them, GM & Ford have made tremendous improvements in their cars like Wolfe said. I don't particularly find the basic interior in the new GT to be all that good, but it's loads better than the previous generations & Ford has given buyers the option to have some really nice leather in them.
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And most of us would have trouble calling a V6 Camaro a Muscle Car, so yay for that.
What does matter is the Genesis is faster and better built, while in the same price point.
Minus the part where it is entirely relevant. It isn't relevant to you because you live in a fantasy world of manly insecurity, but most people care about the interior quality.
- 149
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- Vantage7825
I abhor the cheap crappy american cars of the last century too, but this is completely false. Ford and GM have made grand strides in the past decade, and Chrysler...well Ford and GM are doing better than ever.
Really though, there's hardly such a thing as a "bad" car today. Between extensive globalization and continuous improvements in technology, engineering, and materials, everyone's pretty much on the same page now. What makes a good car has been kind of nailed down at this point. As Road&Track pointed out in their review of the Model S, Tesla's world-class execution on practically their first try is evidence of that.
Not all american cars today are great or exemplary, but if you think nothing coming out of Detroit is any good, you should pay closer attention. Times change. 👍
IMO: Ford started going back downhill again in 2010 (Evidence is in all their cars and where they get parts). GM has been on a consistent rise in quality. Chrysler has just barely moved up in terms of quality since Fiat took over. Few "American" cars truly even come out of Detroit anymore. Many are designed and built elsewhere.
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Ford went downhill in 2010? How?
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Hardly. It's like writing off the Sunbird because the interior isn't just so. It cost only $13,000 new in 1993, and it was never supposed to be a "luxury compact" like the 3 series. If you trace the origins of the muscle car concept, you'll find that interior quality never factored into it. It was about speed and (outward) looks, that's all.
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- GTP_RogerTheHors
People, please. Can we stop arguing and get back on topic. This is supposed to be a nomination thread. From now on, I think I shall keep from commenting on other's nominations until they are polled, and I believe others should do the same. Let's leave this thread for nominations, K?
Thank you.
Yes, I am aware I started this argument. Sorry.
Thank you.
Yes, I am aware I started this argument. Sorry.
Joey D
Premium
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- GTP_Joey
- GTP Joey
BK you might want to put another rule in place that basically says leave the debating to the polling thread. I thought I had something like that back in the day when I did it but I honestly can't really remember. Maybe it was one of those things I thought was a really good idea and never go around to it .
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Athsmatic, maybe, but 1) it's got enough down low that it's still fun to drive, and 2) if a performance exhaust and slipperier cats could be slipped past the Green Police, it would go a long way to fixing that.
As for the steering wheel falling off in your hands, no. Other than the base 4cyl engine, that car is actually pretty beefy.
Now since RtS wanted comments on the nominations. I'd call the Aztek seriously uncool because it's the car that could have saved Pontiac, if GM hadn't done every single thing wrong.
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BK you might want to put another rule in place that basically says leave the debating to the polling thread. I thought I had something like that back in the day when I did it but I honestly can't really remember. Maybe it was one of those things I thought was a really good idea and never go around to it
It's probably gonna kill the thread, but from here on...
NOMINATIONS ONLY!
Save the bickering and droning for the polls! The OP will be updated momentarily.
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- GTP_RogerTheHors
Can we say "nominations and discussion of cool wall rules etc." only, as posts such as "Am I allowed to nominate X vehicle?" or "How often are we going to be doing polls?" and what have you don't do much harm to this thread, while discussion of the nominations outside of the polls is generally what (and I apologise for any involvement I have had in this) has done the harm.
- 5,551
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- GTP_RogerTheHors
Yeah. I think that's about right.
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Anyway, I'm curious as to the exact definition of "car" being used by the rules. Is a Lorry ever eligible for nomination? Is a motorcycle?
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Anyway, I'm curious as to the exact definition of "car" being used by the rules. Is a Lorry ever eligible for nomination? Is a motorcycle?
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