Real Guns

[Omnis]

Probably going to pick up a Glock 9mm tomorrow for home defense. Full size or compact? What ammo for home defense? Hollow point?

Have you shot one yet? Go to your range and rent them before you buy. It only costs 15 bucks to rent pistols here, and they'll apply your rental fees to the purchase if you decide to buy one later. See if you can work something out like that.

 

[Blackbird.]

I would go for Glock 19. It's the medium one(considered a 'compact'). I think the mag holds 15 rounds. There are Gen 3, or the new Gen 4. Gen 4 has its advantages, but I'd go for Gen 3 for the slightly lower price, and proven reliability. That's just me.

I used to have Glock 17 for home defense(full size 9mm), and I always had hollow point in mine. 9mm's smaller, so expansion could only help + it may help prevent bullet overpenetrate & hitting someone, or going thru walls hitting family member, or a neighbor.

Sounds like you may be new to keeping a firearm in the home? I highly recommend going overboard with safety precautions(locking it up, handling while it's loaded, etc.). So many idiots are making the news with accidental discharge in their homes these days.

P.S. I always kept a loaded mag in my Glock 17, but never one in the chamber..... but again, that's just me.

Edit: Ammo I used.

luckygunner - I wanna say they used to go for $20, $25 back then.

Edit2: Hollow points generally comes in box of 20 ~ 25 rounds.

It will be my first gun to own, i've shot quite a few. I decided the 9mm would be best because i've shot my friend's .40 compact and it's a bit too much kick for me. Maybe if I shot it more I could get used to it but I figure in a home defense situation i'll be under stress and I need something I can comfortably fire accurately. I plan on getting a safe to lock it up when it's not in use somewhere easy to access in an emergency. I wasn't thinking of keeping it loaded but keeping a loaded magazine of hollow points in the same safe as the gun. So you would say 19(compact) for it's size advantage? I figure the smaller the gun the shorter the barrel the harder the recoil. The 17 would have a slight advantage as far as range but i'm sure that's negligible in the scenario of home defense while probably the longest distance would be 20-25 feet.

Have you shot one yet? Go to your range and rent them before you buy. It only costs 15 bucks to rent pistols here, and they'll apply your rental fees to the purchase if you decide to buy one later. See if you can work something out like that.

A Glock 9mm specifically? No. I've shot a .22, Ruger 9mm, .44 Magnum, Colt .45, and a Glock .40 (Compact) as far as pistols go.

It may sound cheesy but also would you guys recommend some sort of attachment as well? Like a green laser, or a flashlight?

 

[Omnis]

For home defense I would use a small carbine or a small gauge shotgun. But a pistol will do. If you're not going to carry I'd go for the G17. More rounds, bigger grip, and more fun to shoot at the range. Also, more rounds. I'd keep a mag full of JHP in the pistol, but don't store it with one in the chamber. It'll never go off.

Maybe someone else can chime in on attachments. Best thing is probably just a strobe/taclight as bright as you can find. Strobe-->Blind-->Fire if threat.

 

[Blackbird.]

No plans to carry, don't want to nor do I know if it's even possible in California.

 

[Solid Lifters]

No plans to carry, don't want to nor do I know if it's even possible in California.

It is. Click here to learn how to, in you're ever interested. http://www.calccw.com/Forums/concealed-carry-california/

 

[a6m5]

I think 9mm is a solid selection, especially if you are buying a polymer frame gun(lighter), and is concerned about recoil.

As far as the size advantage with the Glock 19, it would be in conceal carry. IMO, also in resale, because it would attract buyers looking for carry gun, or full size pistol. I see zero advantage for Glock 19 over 17 in home defense....... except in sexiness.

I know almost nothing about attachments. When I had the Glock 17, I did keep a flashlight with rail attachment handy, so if I needed a light while in defensive situation, I can quickly slip one on.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

For home defense I would use a small carbine or a small gauge shotgun. But a pistol will do. If you're not going to carry I'd go for the G17. More rounds, bigger grip, and more fun to shoot at the range. Also, more rounds. I'd keep a mag full of JHP in the pistol, but don't store it with one in the chamber. It'll never go off.

Maybe someone else can chime in on attachments. Best thing is probably just a strobe/taclight as bright as you can find. Strobe-->Blind-->Fire if threat.

This ^ I think it would be much smarter to use a shotgun or carbine, I have a mosberg for home defense. If I were to use an actual hand gun, I wouldn't use a 9mm. I think a .40 or .45 are a better option..

 

[Brett]

Modern 9mm hollow points expand quite well and also penetrate more than adequately. 9mm also has the benefit of greater magazine capacity than either .40 S&W or .45 ACP, along with lesser recoil. Shot placement with the common pistol calibers is more important than the size of the bullet.

A few articles for further reading:

The Fading 40

9mm: Cool Again?

Why Nine

 

[a6m5]

I prefer a .45, but yeah, I would have full confidence in a quality 9mm handgun. 100%.

I pick my handgun over shotgun in home defense for maneuverability. Going thru doors & corners, just potential of someone being able to grab the barrel makes me nervous with a shotty. I do realize shotgun is very popular for home defense, if not the most popular choice.

Edit:

Why Nine

I did'n't realize that people were moving away from the .40, but after reading the articles, I can understand the "why". All three articles focused mostly on 9mm versus .40 S&W, and perhaps there is very little advantage for the 10mm(.40 S&W) versus the 9mm, but I think the .45ACP(especially with hollow point) still stands as a solid caliber of choice.

I've posted this pic before, but this is what I have loaded in my 1911:



I have no idea how well(or not) these Winchesters expand. I have two other kinds of JHPs. Maybe I should have the well reviewed one loaded.

 

[Nicksfix]

Probably going to pick up a Glock 9mm tomorrow for home defense. Full size or compact? What ammo for home defense? Hollow point?

Let us know what you get. 👍

Questions ---
You stated home defense, which is fine. My question being, are you married ? Do you have a live in g/f ? Might she ever be presented the opportunity to use this piece ? The reason I ask is simple. It may be the right piece for you, but what about her ? Will she be able to operate a Glock ... meaningfully ? As someone said in here, some of these Glocks are large handled and may not fit a womans hand the proper way to be effective. A point to ponder for your decision making process. If your not married or have a live in g/f, then you can throw these questions out the door. If you do indeed go with a 9mm, then I do advise you purchasing hollow points. If the time ever comes where you are forced to use your gun in a defensive fashion, your going to need something that will leave a mark(s). Granted, .45ACP is the ticket, but 9mm will do just fine.

You'll not need any accessories, well maybe, perhaps a flashlight attached, but just a basic gun is all that is needed for home defense. Lasers would be pointless in this scenario. By the time you zero in on your intruder looking for that sweet spot, he'll have already capped you. Aim for the upper body (you can see enough of a general outline of an intruder to do so, for the most part) and keep pulling the trigger. NEVER fire off 1 round, thinking you hit him and walk away ... HUGE MISTAKE !!! When forced to use your gun for self defense, you shoot to kill ... bottom line ! Dead men can tell no tales !

Which brings me to another question. It's one that I ask people who talk to me about self defense in the home. Are you capable of taking another mans life ? Are you all knowing of the possible repercussions that may be involved when you fire upon someone, even if it's a criminal ? It's a serious question that you need to ask yourself and answer it truthfully.

Best of luck to you in your firearm purchase. I hope you have some fun with it. 👍

I've posted this pic before, but this is what I have loaded in my 1911:

Oh good God ..... wicked stuff a6m5. Wicked but nice.

 

[a6m5]

Ah, some good tips there. 👍

Oh good God ..... wicked stuff a6m5. Wicked but nice.

I know, right?

It was like $30 or something at Walmart for the box of 50(!) though(before the crap hit the fan), so I have no idea how reliable these things are. Oh, well. If it fails to expand, it's still a .45.

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Modern 9mm hollow points expand quite well and also penetrate more than adequately. 9mm also has the benefit of greater magazine capacity than either .40 S&W or .45 ACP, along with lesser recoil. Shot placement with the common pistol calibers is more important than the size of the bullet.

A few articles for further reading:

The Fading 40

9mm: Cool Again?

Why Nine

That's not the issue I have, I know quite well that the round is capable especially when it is a hollow point or any better expanding round rather than FMJ. My issue is that no matter the type of bullet in 9mm round there is always the issue of it's velocity and many gun demos to show that it will keep traveling which I find is not a safe tool for home defense when dense population is also the concern a gun owner should have. I find that a shot gun will do the job and then some as well as give even a novice shooter the ability needed to defend.

I'm sure others might be fine with the 9mm and not have as big of a worry over velocity of the rounds, but you don't need to get complicated and go out and buy a hand gun to defend the home I think.

 

[a6m5]

It's fun to shoot. Just go get it anyway.

 

[Nicksfix]

I find that a shot gun will do the job and then some as well as give even a novice shooter the ability needed to defend.

I'm sure others might be fine with the 9mm and not have as big of a worry over velocity of the rounds, but you don't need to get complicated and go out and buy a hand gun to defend the home I think.

Their really is nothing wrong with using a shotgun as a personal home defense weapon. As a6m5 stated, I too personally like the maneuverability factor associated with the use of a handgun. How many shots can you put out using a shotgun ? 2-3-5 ? depends , obviously. Suppose you miss with a round. Now your down to 1 maybe 2. Better make them count. We've a sawed off 12ga. riot gun located in our downstairs rec. room as a deterrent. It's running slugs out of it. Granted, you can run #4 buck out of your shotgun and be just as effective, but it's all preference though.

Personally, a handgun with a 15 round magazine loaded with hollows is my choice. There is one in the bedroom nightstand - a six shooter in the kitchen - 15 rounder in the living room, and even a 10 rounder back on the other side of the house in one of the boys bedrooms. No matter where we may be in the house, we're covered.

Again, rifle - shotgun / handgun, it's all preference, you just have to know what you are doing if such a case should arise. Shoot smart !

 

[LMSCorvetteGT2]

Their really is nothing wrong with using a shotgun as a personal home defense weapon. As a6m5 stated, I too personally like the maneuverability factor associated with the use of a handgun. How many shots can you put out using a shotgun ? 2-3-5 ? depends , obviously. Suppose you miss with a round. Now your down to 1 maybe 2. Better make them count. We've a sawed off 12ga. riot gun located in our downstairs rec. room as a deterrent. It's running slugs out of it. Granted, you can run #4 buck out of your shotgun and be just as effective, but it's all preference though.

Personally, a handgun with a 15 round magazine loaded with hollows is my choice. There is one in the bedroom nightstand - a six shooter in the kitchen - 15 rounder in the living room, and even a 10 rounder back on the other side of the house in one of the boys bedrooms. No matter where we may be in the house, we're covered.

Again, rifle - shotgun / handgun, it's all preference, you just have to know what you are doing if such a case should arise. Shoot smart !

Trust me I'm covered just fine, collateral damage is my main issue with hand guns in close quarters with neighbors close by. Once again though when you are running regular 00 buckshot you have the low recoil and ability to fire another round quickly, with many versatile situation provided for home protection I think the safest and easiest for the defender and neighbors is a set up like that. Now for away from the home, well that is a vastly different story.

 

[Crash]

Probably going to pick up a Glock 9mm tomorrow for home defense. Full size or compact? What ammo for home defense? Hollow point?

Hollow points. I use Speer Gold Dots for home defense.

I keep mine loaded and one in the chamber, though I do keep my thumb safety on.

I would go for Glock 19. It's the medium one(considered a 'compact'). I think the mag holds 15 rounds. There are Gen 3, or the new Gen 4. Gen 4 has its advantages, but I'd go for Gen 3 for the slightly lower price, and proven reliability. That's just me.

I would get whatever is more comfortable to you. I think that if you're getting something for self defense, then the price difference between a Gen3 and Gen4 shouldn't even be a factor, if your life is on the line for it. If you prefer the Gen3, that's fine, but the lower price is just a nice little bonus.

It will be my first gun to own, i've shot quite a few. I decided the 9mm would be best because i've shot my friend's .40 compact and it's a bit too much kick for me. Maybe if I shot it more I could get used to it but I figure in a home defense situation i'll be under stress and I need something I can comfortably fire accurately. I plan on getting a safe to lock it up when it's not in use somewhere easy to access in an emergency. I wasn't thinking of keeping it loaded but keeping a loaded magazine of hollow points in the same safe as the gun. So you would say 19(compact) for it's size advantage? I figure the smaller the gun the shorter the barrel the harder the recoil. The 17 would have a slight advantage as far as range but i'm sure that's negligible in the scenario of home defense while probably the longest distance would be 20-25 feet.


It may sound cheesy but also would you guys recommend some sort of attachment as well? Like a green laser, or a flashlight?

Flashlight may be good in home defense situations.

I pick my handgun over shotgun in home defense for maneuverability. Going thru doors & corners, just potential of someone being able to grab the barrel makes me nervous with a shotty. I do realize shotgun is very popular for home defense, if not the most popular choice.

Another benefit with a handgun is that you can operate it with one hand. This leaves your other hand to do whatever it needs to do, or to call the police.

Their really is nothing wrong with using a shotgun as a personal home defense weapon. As a6m5 stated, I too personally like the maneuverability factor associated with the use of a handgun. How many shots can you put out using a shotgun ? 2-3-5 ? depends , obviously. Suppose you miss with a round. Now your down to 1 maybe 2. Better make them count.

This, plus the maneuverability, plus having a free hand, plus it's a lot quicker to reload a handgun magazine than it is a shotgun, makes a handgun the winner for me.

Either way, whatever you choose Blackbird, good luck and have fun. 👍

 

[Blackbird.]

Thank you for all the responses and info guys. 👍 I found out earlier today that my brother in law knows the owner of a gun shop. Apparently I can get a good deal on a Glock 17 or 19 or even better a discounted price if me and a buddy both purchase one at the same time. He was closed today though and I'm busy the rest of the week so maybe next weekend.

Ive heard many people also say rifles or shotties are good for home defense but even though this is my first gun purchase so I cant talk from experience I prefer pistols.

This gun wont be 100% for emergency uses I plan to also take it to the range with friends if not only to practice my aim.

 

[Michael88]

5.45x39 (AK74) vs arm. Ouch. Still, the good old 7.62x39 has a lot more barrier penetration.

 

[Omnis]

How did that guy not bleed out?

 

[Michael88]

I guess if you secure the axillary vein right away the bleeding can be controlled. I've seen much worse injuries, completely shattered thigh bones and baseball-sized exit wounds and the patient survived without any complications.

5.54x39 vs gel:



I don't want to sound morbid but I wonder what the result would have been wtih a 7.62 nato:

 

[Omnis]

308 might make a smaller hole if it punches right through before it can tumble. Either way, your arm is

 

[Michael88]

The ballistic gel tests makes one forget that there is also bones in human bodies, bullets instantly start to jaw when they hit something solid so the popular argument of the .308 not yawing early enough becomes a moot point.
I wish there were gel tests with simulated bones. 👍

 

[Omnis]

Brass Fetcher has those. Anyway, I still think 308 is not going to yaw through a forearm, lol. Not like the smaller 5.45. If it hits bone, it has so much energy that the bone is basically going to explode through the little flesh that remains. Not going to be much difference between the two, anyway.

 

[a6m5]

Jesus, I can see why you stick with the rifles, Michael. My reaction to that 7.62x51mm versus ballistic gelatin: ......WTF(in slow motion, just like the vid lol)

There is one in the bedroom nightstand - a six shooter in the kitchen - 15 rounder in the living room, and even a 10 rounder back on the other side of the house in one of the boys bedrooms. No matter where we may be in the house, we're covered.

God, you live in one of those houses. I almost feel bad for any would-be intruders. They are 🤬.

Another benefit with a handgun is that you can operate it with one hand. This leaves your other hand to do whatever it needs to do, or to call the police.

Good point. 👍

 

[Nicksfix]

God, you live in one of those houses. I almost feel bad for any would-be intruders. They are 🤬.

Let me explain.

If the wife is downstairs in the washroom and an intruder would break in from the upstairs, she has access to a gun for protection. (1 washroom). If the intruder breaks in on the lower level through the enclosed patio and into the rec. room (2 rec. room), she still has access to protection. Should she be in the kitchen (3 kitchen) and an intruder would break in from either upstairs or down stairs, she's covered. If she's in the living room (4 living room) on the computer, or watching TV, she's covered. If she happens to be in the bedroom (5 bedroom) and an occurrence should happen, she's covered. If she is in on the other end of the house in one of the boys bedrooms (6 boys bedroom), she's covered. I used my wife in the above scenarios ... only because she has no fear of shooting an intruder.

That makes 6 strategically located firearms in the house, I was off by 2 ... The rest are gun safed up. It would suck to be in 1 section of a house and not be able to defend yourself. "Damn, I'm in the bedroom ... but the gun is in the rec. room ... downstairs. I have no way to defend myself". Or any other type of scenario like that. It's about quick access and being able to defend yourself should anything occur. So no matter where we go in the house, should something ever occur, we won't be like sitting ducks just wishing we had access to a weapon while we are looking down the barrel of an intruders gun.

And no, we do not live in or near a bad neighborhood, nor am I paranoid ... far from it. I am just well prepared. We live out in the country, and things can and do happen out in the country as well as the big city. Having multiple firearms strategically located obviously is not for everyone. It takes a little bit of $$$ to equip a house with firearms in multiple locations. If your a 1 gun family, keep your firearm centrally located. In hopes that access will be easy for you should you encounter a situation.

Yes, your right .... I feel sorry for any would be intruders as well. 4 shooters in our house ... our two boys, my wife, and myself. Somebody is going to get 'ya should you intrude.

 

[a6m5]

And no, we do not live in or near a bad neighborhood, nor am I paranoid ... far from it. I am just well prepared.

People often assume preparation = paranoia.

I try to be prepared for self-defense situations, also natural disasters, etc. If I'm paranoid about anything, I'm paranoid about getting caught with my pants down!

 

[Nicksfix]

People often assume preparation = paranoia.

Indeed they do, they just don't understand. BTW ... paranoid people should not be allowed to own a firearm. That has bad written all over it.

If I'm paranoid about anything, I'm paranoid about getting caught with my pants down!

That can be taken a couple of different ways. For the sake of ... I'll just assume you are meaning getting caught up in another ammo shortage 💡 Right .... ?

 

[Xx07gsxrxX]

BTW ... paranoid people should not be allowed to own a firearm. That has bad written all over it.

I agree

 

[a6m5]

Unfortunately, we see plenty of that, too.

That can be taken a couple of different ways. For the sake of ... I'll just assume you are meaning getting caught up in another ammo shortage 💡 Right .... ?

You mean like that time I got pants'd on the basketball court? 🤬 << still plenty sore.

*ahem*

Yeah, you know, ammo shortage and stuff like that.

 

[Blackbird.]

Let us know what you get. 👍

Questions ---
You stated home defense, which is fine. My question being, are you married ? Do you have a live in g/f ? Might she ever be presented the opportunity to use this piece ? The reason I ask is simple. It may be the right piece for you, but what about her ? Will she be able to operate a Glock ... meaningfully ? As someone said in here, some of these Glocks are large handled and may not fit a womans hand the proper way to be effective. A point to ponder for your decision making process. If your not married or have a live in g/f, then you can throw these questions out the door. If you do indeed go with a 9mm, then I do advise you purchasing hollow points. If the time ever comes where you are forced to use your gun in a defensive fashion, your going to need something that will leave a mark(s). Granted, .45ACP is the ticket, but 9mm will do just fine.

You'll not need any accessories, well maybe, perhaps a flashlight attached, but just a basic gun is all that is needed for home defense. Lasers would be pointless in this scenario. By the time you zero in on your intruder looking for that sweet spot, he'll have already capped you. Aim for the upper body (you can see enough of a general outline of an intruder to do so, for the most part) and keep pulling the trigger. NEVER fire off 1 round, thinking you hit him and walk away ... HUGE MISTAKE !!! When forced to use your gun for self defense, you shoot to kill ... bottom line ! Dead men can tell no tales !

Which brings me to another question. It's one that I ask people who talk to me about self defense in the home. Are you capable of taking another mans life ? Are you all knowing of the possible repercussions that may be involved when you fire upon someone, even if it's a criminal ? It's a serious question that you need to ask yourself and answer it truthfully.

Best of luck to you in your firearm purchase. I hope you have some fun with it. 👍

I dont live with a girlfriend in the house. I live in a good neighborhood its gated but crime here and in surrounding cities have been going up drastically and you never know. I cant honestly tell you im prepared to take someone's life but I can tell you im prepared to protect myself if I feel threatened and/or someone is trespassing. I can live with any reprocussions as long asbi believe I was acting in self defense.