Real Guns

[a6m5]

This steel slug is advertised to have extreme penetration capabilities which includes disabling car engines and shooting through all manners of cover without the slightest

I wonder if anyone's posted such experiment on youtube. I will be searching for it later.

I don't know what to do with them but they're extremely cool.

If you make the video, I'll give you a +1 on youtube.

 

[Michael88]

Well, the manufacturer of that slug put a vid up where they shoot a steel engine block.



I wonder what those would do to various body armor? In any case they'd seriously hurt because even if stopped they transfer all their energy in an instant since they do not deform, shatter or disintegrate like normal bullets would.

 

[David]

.

 

[a6m5]

Well, the manufacturer of that slug put a vid up where they shoot a steel engine block.

👍

I wonder what those would do to various body armor? In any case they'd seriously hurt because even if stopped they transfer all their energy in an instant since they do not deform, shatter or disintegrate like normal bullets would.

As soon as I bought my 12-gauge, I was immediately fascinated by, and acquired Magnum buck & slugs. However, I did not truly realize the power of the slugs until I saw this video:


Slug @ 1:10

It might be a little pricier than what you have in mind but you should check out the cousin of Michael's gun, the CZ 455. It has interchangeable barrels and you can switch between calibers. Don't think you could go wrong with a Ruger American though.

Yeah, spendy, but if I was in the woods all the time or something, I would definitely consider something like that. Very cool rifle. 👍

 

[Michael88]

Well, I guess soon I won't be posting here anymore, the European Union is about to pass a law that effectively bans lead for civilian use which of course includes lead in ammunition, in the name of saving the environment.
What a coincidence.

Should this law pass, and that seems very likely, target shooting in the entire EU will cease to exist overnight, countless shops that sell ammunition and guns will go out of business as will thousands of shooting ranges and clubs.

Of course its not about saving the environment, its an elegant way of getting rid of private gun ownership without banning guns. Its like banning gasoline instead of cars. Hey, you can keep your car!

Shooting muzzle loaders without lead - completely impossible
Shooting 22's - there are no non-lead 22's I'm aware of
Shooting center fire rifles - lathe turned brass projectiles are extremely expensive and wear out barrels fast, most ordnance rifles would not work with brass projectiles.
Shotgun - older shotguns cannot shoot steel shot, its also less dense and less effective. Tungsten shot is extremely expensive.

The European Union is the worst thing that ever happened to the people in Europe right after the attempt to create a third Reich, and everything is turning into a Nazi police state here. I'm sick and tired of the BS here, one can only hope for a miracle.

I have no words to express my frustration

 

[Blood Eagle]

California has done this too but it's almost unenforceable. And make no mistake, it has nothing to do with the environment. It's to make it harder for you to shoot guns legally.

 

[Michael88]

Enough people here will obey so the ban will be highly effective, this is the EU after all, it doesn't matter if a few people don't care. 99% of ammunition will be gone and thats pretty much the end of target shooting and self defense.

 

[Brett]

You could always move to the land of freedom, with the caveat that some areas are more free than others.

 

[a6m5]

No kidding. When I was younger, I couldn't understand it, but as I get older, more I appreciate the ideology that built the U.S.A. I hope this country never becomes another Europe, or Japan, where I'm from.

 

[Michael88]

I could move but there is so much wrong with the US too, its no safe haven by a long shot. It would be like choosing between hepatitis and cholera.

 

[Crash]

@Michael88 Sucks to hear about the state of things. Will the ban be a ban on sales (no more new sales, but you can keep shooting/using what you have until it is gone) or is it a complete ban on even use of stuff purchased pre-ban?

 

[Omnis]

I could move but there is so much wrong with the US too, its no safe haven by a long shot. It would be like choosing between hepatitis and cholera.

What's wrong with the US compared to Austria? Taxes? Well, like cholera, you'll pay out the ass, but at least you won't be stuck with hepatitis for life.

 

[a6m5]

I could move but there is so much wrong with the US too, its no safe haven by a long shot. It would be like choosing between hepatitis and cholera.

Well, I think everybody sees different pros & cons in every country & every culture.

What do you think? Can you give up your hobby & stay in Austria, or seriously look at all options, like relocation? They really snuck this one in, didn't they?

California has done this too but it's almost unenforceable. And make no mistake, it has nothing to do with the environment. It's to make it harder for you to shoot guns legally.

Wait. Does this actually mean it's prohibited to go into the woods & shoot in California with any lead ammunition?

 

[Eric.]

Hey guys. Been a while since I checked in. Finished a build tonight so I thought I'd show my last additions.

Police trade in Glock 22 Gen 3:

And the new baby. 8" 300 AAC Blackout

Before:

After:

 

[Michael88]

What's wrong with the US compared to Austria? Taxes? Well, like cholera, you'll pay out the ass, but at least you won't be stuck with hepatitis for life.

We have a very good health care system here, I don't know if it would be a good idea to give it up for liberal gun laws. Not that I'm mortally ill or anything, but I think its very important and good to have. There is also food, cultural differences I'd have a hard time to adapt to and a plethora of other things Plus it would be very hard for me to leave my beloved country (country =/= people and its government), I was born here and know it like the back of my hand.

To be honest, almost all things are worse in the US except all the gun related things. Don't get me wrong, I'm NOT one of those mindless US basher drones, but thats just my opinion and observation.

If anything I wish I could move to Switzerland, its just around the corner, but it seems like its starting to suck there too.

@Michael88 Sucks to hear about the state of things. Will the ban be a ban on sales (no more new sales, but you can keep shooting/using what you have until it is gone) or is it a complete ban on even use of stuff purchased pre-ban?

It sounds like its going to be a sales ban as well as a use ban. So ammunition and components that contain lead cannot be sold anymore and you cannot shoot it anymore either. You can still own it though. I'm thinking about stockpiling but I'm not sure if it would be such a great idea because I wont be able to shoot it anyway. Spending thousands of bucks on ammo (actually I'd by thousands of projectiles, as a reloader I can later make them into ammunition) for self defense doesn't make much sense either.

 

[Michael88]

Hey a6m5, just so you know, a friend of mine blew his Remington 700 up (on his birthday), with factory Tul Ammo in .308. There was nothing wrong with the gun and it was definitely massively overcharged. The gun shop he got the ammo from has stopped selling it and won't import it anymore.

I know you use that ammo in your Bushmaster. It was probably the one in a ten-million-cartridge but still, be careful!

 

[David]

.

 

[a6m5]

Hey guys. Been a while since I checked in. Finished a build tonight so I thought I'd show my last additions.

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Congratulations!

I've liked the Glock 23 for awhile, but had no idea which one 22 was. How many does the magazine hold? Also not familiar with the Blackout, but I'm sure it's kick ass. 👍

Hey a6m5, just so you know, a friend of mine blew his Remington 700 up (on his birthday), with factory Tul Ammo in .308. There was nothing wrong with the gun and it was definitely massively overcharged. The gun shop he got the ammo from has stopped selling it and won't import it anymore.

I know you use that ammo in your Bushmaster. It was probably the one in a ten-million-cartridge but still, be careful!

......... But there is no way to really tell until you've fired it, right? Yes, I do still have hundreds of Tula .308, though I stopped buying them awhile back. I've been buying the brass Turkish NATO rounds, but I don't know if their quality control's any better.

P.S. I totally agree with your comment about the healthcare system. Absolute joke.

At this point I'd have put money on the 700 being at fault with Remington's track record lately before putting money on some Tula being overloaded...

Yeah. I've mentioned it a million times in this thread, but my very first gun was a Remington 597, and I was almost bitter with their craftsmanship(mostly faulty magazine).

Anywho, it wouldn't surprise me either way, rifle or the round.

 

[Eric.]

Usually the cheap ammo like Tula is loaded on the weak side, so that's definitely a freak accident. I [pretty much only stick to Federal, or for my Russian guns Brown/Silver Bear.

The G22 holds 15 rounds. I had been waiting to order a new Shield in 9mm and somehow came across DSG Arms selling police trade in Glock 22s for something like $309. Turns out ~$350 police trade in Glocks are the norm but I thought I found a hell of a deal and had to order it. Happy I did. I wanted a Glock long ago but lately wouldn't have considered it as much just for the stigma that comes with them. I like it a lot, though I've barely shot it. Its in like 98% new condition, no visible holster wear. Just a little bit of dirt buildup in the grip texture and tiny gouges out of the magwell etc.

300 Blackout made sense for an AR pistol because 5.56 needs 16" (more, really) to really reach effective velocities. And in a really short barrel, the powder won't be burned completely so you get an extremely loud report. 300 Blackout is 7.62x35, so it is basically identical to the Russian 7.62x39 ballistics. It has a complete burn in 9" and was designed for use with suppressors on a 9" barrel. One could have a magazine of subsonic (200gr or so) rounds to stay quiet, then simply switch magazines and shoot supersonics without needing to remove the suppressor. Designed for the military, popular with hunters and seems like a perfect AR pistol round. If you didn't know, it reuses a 5.56 NATO brass, cut down and necked up to have a 30 cal bullet. Only ran about 20 rounds through it (was dark, spent 8 hours on that gun at a friend's house yesterday) but it shoots nice, more recoil than a 5.56. Its also built off an 80% lower (z0mg its a 30 caliber ghost gun!), so I got to learn how to use a mill a little bit.

Oh I also put a Lantac Dragon on my other AR. Not incredibly loud but if you're standing to the side of it you feel the concussion in your chest. Works extremely well on controlling the muzzle movement. My friend said it looked like the muzzle was actually going downward if anything.

 

[a6m5]

I'm gonna have to read up a bit more on Blackout. Guy at work told me about the .223 brass thing when I was reading your post. Interesting round. 👍

Glock stigma stuff doesn't affect me at all. They make very good, consistent & reliable gun. If I could make couple of changes to it, I would, but I really like their performance at the price point, especially used. There are haters, but to me, they seem irrational, like those "Cool Walls" on this site. I really couldn't care less what other people think, because of what they think the other think or say.

 

[Eric.]

Not to be pedantic, but 5.56 brass. I'm not 100% sure there is a difference but I've heard that 5.56 brass is a bit thicker or something to deal with the higher pressures. In fact, the 223/5.56 relationship is kinda similar to 300BLK. 300 BLK is apparently a slightly modified version of 300 Whisper, but AAC went to the trouble of having it certified to SAAMI specs. Whisper is a hunting caliber, meant to be suppressed I'm sure. Supposedly you can shoot that out of a 300BLK gun but not vice versa because the extra pressure used in a 300BLK.

So, I gotta start collecting reloading equipment now to help keep my 300 supply affordable. I didn't expect to love this gun so much. Haha.

Trying to decide what to do for sights/optics. I absolutely hate to put a set of Magpul MBUS on it but I already have a front one. I want a small red dot that isn't $500.

 

[a6m5]

Thanks for correcting me. You are right, there is a difference between .223 & NATO.

I'm not a huge fan of Magpul sights either, but my AR came with them & they seem to be really durable, so I like them for what they are. I have low power Redfield scope on it now, but it would be cool to get a red dot someday( @Brett 's Eotech).

 

[Michael88]

Awesome, awesome, awesome. Congratulations!
......... But there is no way to really tell until you've fired it, right? Yes, I do still have hundreds of Tula .308, though I stopped buying them awhile back. I've been buying the brass Turkish NATO rounds, but I don't know if their quality control's any better.

Well, on the other hand I'd be hard pressed to name a completely accident-free ammo brand. No matter how tight your quality control is, sooner or later, after hundreds of millions of rounds a faulty one will slip though and blow somebodies gun apart. Seeing it first hand though is a different thing.

Oh, I do know an accident-free ammo brand! MINE! The way I reload accidents caused by overcharged ammo is low as technically possible, my charges fill the case to 95%, so I can only have a 5% overcharge which is still inside the mx pressure limit.
I weigh each charge by hand on my mechanical scale and inspect each brass shell for damage.

 

[Eric.]

I was looking at red dots last night. For a decent one plus a mount I'm almost looking at low end EOTECH money so I may even go that route.

 

[Brett]

Thanks for correcting me. You are right, there is a difference between .223 & NATO.

I'm not a huge fan of Magpul sights either, but my AR came with them & they seem to be really durable, so I like them for what they are. I have low power Redfield scope on it now, but it would be cool to get a red dot someday( @Brett 's Eotech).

I actually have an Aimpoint on my Tavor now. I still have the EOTech. I have been looking to sale it, but have not been trying particularly hard to sell it either.

 

[Eric.]

Thanks for correcting me. You are right, there is a difference between .223 & NATO.

I'm not a huge fan of Magpul sights either, but my AR came with them & they seem to be really durable, so I like them for what they are. I have low power Redfield scope on it now, but it would be cool to get a red dot someday( @Brett 's Eotech).

It's not that I dislike the magpul sights so much as I love how clean the gun looks with nothing cluttering the rail. I do need a BAD lever and maybe some KNS pins to spruce up the lower. I was shopping for red dots last night and for a decent one with a rail adapter I'm looking st nearly low end EOTech money so I may go that way. I dunno.

Edit: ha, my last post wasn't showing on my phone so I kinda said the same thing again.

 

[Brett]

It's not that I dislike the magpul sights so much as I love how clean the gun looks with nothing cluttering the rail. I do need a BAD lever and maybe some KNS pins to spruce up the lower. I was shopping for red dots last night and for a decent one with a rail adapter I'm looking st nearly low end EOTech money so I may go that way. I dunno.

Edit: ha, my last post wasn't showing on my phone so I kinda said the same thing again.

If you are intereseted, then I am willing to work a deal on the EOTech I have and am looking to sell.

 

[Eric.]

If you are intereseted, then I am willing to work a deal on the EOTech I have and am looking to sell.

What model and what would you be wanting for it? PM me if you want.

 

[Brett]

What model and what would you be wanting for it? PM me if you want.

PM sent.

 

[Eric.]

May have noticed I was missing something in the other pics of the 300BLK gun.