Real Guns

[Michael88]

OATH slug. Expands to two and a half friggin inches. And yes, thats a 12 gauge brass case.
Ladies and gentlemen, this is probably the zenith in stopping power with standard firearms right now.

1.25 ounces at 1600 fps.

There is also another brutal frangible round, it weighs 2.25 ounces!! (985 grains!!) going at 1200 fps. The ''pedals'' break off upon impact, each ''pedal'' weighing as much as a heavy .38 special bullet and making its own wound channel.

Oh and by the way, I calculated the recoil for the frangible OATH - it has almost three times the recoil for a regular slug, even noticeably more than a .458 Winchester Magnum elephant rifle. Whoop-de-doo!


That thing is so overkill, if you get shot and killed by one of those it will kill you a second time in your next life.

 

[a6m5]

I'm still trying to comprehend what I'm seeing.

 

[Ken]

I'm still trying to comprehend what I'm seeing.

The 🤬 of nightmares it looks like. My God, imagine the damage. I'm hoping these things aren't publicly available.

 

[a6m5]

The 🤬 of nightmares it looks like. My God, imagine the damage. I'm hoping these things aren't publicly available.

It doesn't matter, Ken. You get hit by that, or even normal 12-Gauge Slug, you are DEAD.

Buckshot on the left, slug on the right:

​

12-Gauge slugs are available anywhere.​

Amateur testing on ballistic glass:



At 1:08

 

[Ken]

It doesn't matter, Ken. You get hit by that, or even normal 12-Gauge Slug, you are DEAD.

It could be possible to survive. Like if get shot in the hand.





















Maybe.

 

[a6m5]

What hand?

 

[Ken]

What hand?

I'm pretty sure if the guy next to you gets shot in the hand, either one, you'll end up with a wound as well.

OATH must have two things in mind: We want to be able to shoot through a tank and break the shooter in half at the same time!

 

[Michael88]

The 🤬 of nightmares it looks like. My God, imagine the damage. I'm hoping these things aren't publicly available.

Why? It sounds like a good hunting round for deer, no suffering and insta-kill capabilities.

 

[Omnis]

How are they better? I don't know anything about any of these brands. Critical Defense was just one of only two kinds the store carried in .45. I have read people say good thing about Hydra Shok(is that this HST?). As long as they feed/fire reliably & expand consistently, I don't really care. *shrug*

HST is one step above Hydra-shok. Dunno what it stands for, but it's like premium hydra-shok.

The crit defense doesn't always expand in the test videos I've seen. The best places to compare ammo are at LuckyGunner's roundup, and Brass Fetcher.

 

[Brett]

How are they better? I don't know anything about any of these brands. Critical Defense was just one of only two kinds the store carried in .45. I have read people say good thing about Hydra Shok(is that this HST?). As long as they feed/fire reliably & expand consistently, I don't really care. *shrug*

Federal HST and Speer Gold Dots have been the two that have tested best overall for the various expansion and penetration tests. Hornady makes both Critical Duty and Critical Defense. I believe Critical Duty is what came up third behind HST and Gold Dots.

Aside: Here is a link to the differences between Critical Duty and Critical Defense.

Hydra Shok was/is Federal's first attempt at a reliably expanding hollow point. I believe they may have even bought the patent from the guy who came up with them. From my reading, everything points to avoid it, as it is sub par compared to HSTs, Gold Dots, or Critical Duty/Defense.

 

[Blood Eagle]

I shot a 124 gr 9mm HST into a 55 gallon drum of water from above a few years ago for science. Crappy pic.

 

[a6m5]

Thanks for much for the helpful information guys, especially the links! I think I'm happy with the Hornady Critical Defense for now(above average HP, reliable expansion), but I would definitely try out the HST next time.

Why? It sounds like a good hunting round for deer, no suffering and insta-kill capabilities.

What deer? j/k

 

[Blood Eagle]

Thanks for much for the helpful information guys, especially the links! I think I'm happy with the Hornady Critical Defense for now(above average HP, reliable expansion), but I would definitely try out the HST next time.

I think Critical Defense rounds are just fine. The main problem with hollowpoints in the early days was failure to expand. The main concern with hollow points with an open cavity like HSTs and Gold Dots is something plugging the center thus turning it into a ball round with no expansion. Critical Defense has eliminated that with the red rubber ball in the center. Nothing can enter the cavity and rubber being soft will expand on impact and enshuring the pedals peel back. Hollow points have come pretty far. If you go on youtube look at tnoutdoors9's youtube channel. He does homemade ammo tests with lots of hollowpoints so you can see how they do. Very honest.

 

[N0t_L3fty]

The biggest issue with the hydra-shocks were they were loaded to too low of velocity for reliable expansion. The .380 load had 90 grain slugs, but didn't throw enough powder behind them. Same issue with the 9mm, 115 grain slug, but too stinking slow to expand properly. Then the .38 & .357 they jump to 158 grain slugs without enough juice, that was just asking to hit the folks next door. It was large heavy and over penetrated. Not sure I can recommend hot hand loads, as every ambulance chaser will claim you were waiting to shoot the moron that threatened your space. I load them light & as fast as I can safely push them, & my .357 has shot capsules alternated with hot 110 grain JHP's. If I pepper you with shot it would be a good time to exit stage left, the next one is going to hurt or maybe they won't feel a thing. The self shuckers I use Hornaday critical defense loads as that seems to be what every shop in my area has. I have some zombie load for the 9mm that I don't remember who makes it. Main thing is try to make it stay in the target, you don't want pass through issues. Besides it's less of a mess if they only have an entry wound...

 

[Michael88]

I just sent my own reloads to my country's proof house for ammunition and firearms. Those excellent people will - for a small fee - test my ammo for pressure and speed. They'll send me a fancy little sheet containing pressure curves, pressure rise in milliseconds, average speed and average pressure.

Can't wait to get the results, thats just so cool.

 

[a6m5]

From Twitter:





Loved this tweet:

 

[N0t_L3fty]

Well, it looks like it means business, I had to bring it home it looked lonely at the store.

 

[Omnis]

The biggest issue with the hydra-shocks were they were loaded to too low of velocity for reliable expansion. The .380 load had 90 grain slugs, but didn't throw enough powder behind them. Same issue with the 9mm, 115 grain slug, but too stinking slow to expand properly. Then the .38 & .357 they jump to 158 grain slugs without enough juice, that was just asking to hit the folks next door. It was large heavy and over penetrated. Not sure I can recommend hot hand loads, as every ambulance chaser will claim you were waiting to shoot the moron that threatened your space. I load them light & as fast as I can safely push them, & my .357 has shot capsules alternated with hot 110 grain JHP's. If I pepper you with shot it would be a good time to exit stage left, the next one is going to hurt or maybe they won't feel a thing. The self shuckers I use Hornaday critical defense loads as that seems to be what every shop in my area has. I have some zombie load for the 9mm that I don't remember who makes it. Main thing is try to make it stay in the target, you don't want pass through issues. Besides it's less of a mess if they only have an entry wound...

That's crazy dude. Why take away one of your only 6 shots by using snake shot? One hit with a 357 is game over. If you need to shoot, you can't wait for that 2nd shot to be the real deal.

 

[N0t_L3fty]

In the house at close range they're pretty nasty, & won't take out the people next door. Not as heavy as the shot charge in a .410 load in a Judge, but the same idea. It was strictly for things that go bump in the night. The .357 now resides in the safe, & a .380 or 9mm fills that role.

 

[Michael88]

 

[ExigeEvan]

"America, 🤬 yeah!" Wait a second...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tains-biggest-arsenal-of-illegal-weapons.html

Officers found the terrifying collection of 463 firearms - including rifles, machine guns and an anti-tank missile along with 200,000 rounds of ammunition - at the home of crane operator James Arnold, 49, in Wyverstone, Suffolk.

Quite an impressive collection! What's annoying however is the Telegraph have decided to use the metric "bus loads of terrorists" to describe the quantity of weapons, when this man appeared to have absolutely no desire to do anything of the sort, infact it would seem quite the opposite was the intention.

 

[Swagger897]

That's a shame. I know many people with well more than that locked up, but used them as a display/museum for people to see (WWI and II era).

 

[lGNAl]

AKMS 7.62x39 mm ... 1982 Tabuk 201/315 (201 out of 315) ... Customized, painted black, rubber grips.

Been away but needs re-cleaning and oiling. Some salt on the muzzle. I'll re-post the clean version in a few days.

 

[N0t_L3fty]

View media item 11319 I may have her sister...

How does one determine they have spent too many hours at the reloading bench??
Maybe when your fingers tell you that the piece of brass you tossed in the 9mm tub was actually a .380, & your fingers were right.

 

[a6m5]

I wish I had a AK. I've also been wishing I had AR15 as well. Unfortunately, money don't grow on trees, and I already have one rifle(Bushmaster 308).

Which brings me to this:

*it also has standard reticle w/o drop compensation seen in this image.

It's an red dot designed with 7.62x51 in mind(M240). I use my rifle for plinking in 50 yards or less & wanted a red dot forever. Any opinions on EOTech, or placing a red dot on a 308?

View attachment 515878 Well, it looks like it means business, I had to bring it home it looked lonely at the store.

.22LR? What is it?

Now help me load these mags!

"America, 🤬 yeah!" Wait a second...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/ukn...tains-biggest-arsenal-of-illegal-weapons.html



Quite an impressive collection! What's annoying however is the Telegraph have decided to use the metric "bus loads of terrorists" to describe the quantity of weapons, when this man appeared to have absolutely no desire to do anything of the sort, infact it would seem quite the opposite was the intention.

Yeah, I can see that in the article, too. I think it almost want to say that civilian w/firearms = dangerous/evil/terrorists

I'm glad that government around the world has figured out that only governments can be trusted with firearms. Just don't watch CNN, Fox, Al Jazeera or RT. Every time government misuse firearms, those guys exaggerate.

That's a shame. I know many people with well more than that locked up, but used them as a display/museum for people to see (WWI and II era).

I wish guy like that could have immigrated to the U.S.

 

[N0t_L3fty]

Yep, It's a .22, a Beretta ARX160. I have a weakness for .22s...View media item 11308 Seemed as if it needed to keep this one company.
I have 3-9X Nikon on my DPMS A10, .308 gets the scope & the 5.56 got the red dot. Well actually the 5.56 is getting a scope as I picked up a budget friendly one today, I'll move the red dot to something else...

 

[Michael88]

My 2 cents: I'm not a big fan of reflex sights with no magnification on anything other than firearms specifically designed for dynamic close quarter shooting. Like an SBR in .223
Which, in my opinion, definitely rules out any large rifle chambered in .308.

Why? With a .308 you've got a firearm that has a lot of range and power, yet with a reflex sight with no magnification you limit the system to 150 yds and you end up with a gun thats neither fish nor fowl.

Personally, I still think a boring scope with 1-6 or 2-8 magnification is best suited for this platform, with that you've got both range out to several hundred yds yet with 2x you can be very quick at close ranges of 25yds or less. Yes, the reflex sight offers even faster target acquisition at short ranges, though marginally so, but with the reflex sight you will not be able to even find the target at over 100 meters in overcast, low contrast conditions with small targets, - that situation makes a reflex sight much MUCH inferior to even low power scopes.

Thats just my thoughts on this matter.

Yep, It's a .22, a Beretta ARX160. I have a weakness for .22s...View media item 11308 Seemed as if it needed to keep this one company.

Cool, that thing is cute! Thats a Ruger Charger, right?

I have a weakness for 22's too! I shot mine at 100 meters just a few days ago. Well below MOA!

I also brought my K98 MAuser to the range, shot my own handloaded ammo at 100 meters. This is as good as it gets with those sights. My eyes suck, I should return them lol.

 

[N0t_L3fty]

No the Beretta is further up the page. That is a Charger, & it is a blast...

 

[Michael88]

No the Beretta is further up the page. That is a Charger, & it is a blast...

Yeah I realized my mistake and changed my post. After weight lifting I'm so tired I can't think straight.

 

[N0t_L3fty]

Cheapy BSA red dot sight, tin cans beware

Add a sling, now I need a mount for the laser sight from the air soft & we are all set...