Real Guns

[Omnis]

Not sure how you can beat this for a $750 AR...

http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/saint/

I may get one if it looks like Hillary is gonna win.

 

[Michael88]

Not sure how you can beat this for a $750 AR...

http://www.springfield-armory.com/products/saint/

I may get one if it looks like Hillary is gonna win.

An AR called ''Saint''? Only in Murrica.

 

[Omnis]

Springfield Armory... I Need That?

 

[a6m5]

Yeah, the naming's the only thing I didn't like about it. Is $750 the MSRP, or gun shop price?

 

[Omnis]

899 MSRP, so should be like 750ish street.

 

[Barracuda413]

I have seen The S&W M&P AR15 variant on sale for $599 so that beats it, price wise anyway

 

[Michael88]

Reloaded a ton of 12 gauge 650 grain anti-everything slugs. Also, I'm still waiting for my shotgun, why is this taking so long!

 

[a6m5]

I have seen The S&W M&P AR15 variant on sale for $599 so that beats it, price wise anyway

Yeah, when quality, but entry level ARs go on sale in my neck of the woods, they seem to be advertised at $599. That DPMS or whatever, M&P, etc., etc.

anti-everything slugs

I'm still waiting for my shotgun, why is this taking so long!

It has been awhile. Can't wait to see your pics!

 

[Omnis]

I have seen The S&W M&P AR15 variant on sale for $599 so that beats it, price wise anyway

But is it the same quality?

 

[Blood Eagle]

You have to be careful with the M&P line pricing because it could be an M&P 15/22 which is chambered in .22LR and not really an AR15. Tacticool .22LRs don't make that much sense to me if you consider that any 5.56 variant AR will shoot .22LR with a conversion kit. Makes more sense to buy a real AR and not limit yourself to just .22LR. Not saying it was for sure a 15/22 but it might have been for that price.

 

[Barracuda413]

The S&W is a good quality entry level AR without any bells and whistles, doesn't even have a dust cover
Its bare bones design is the reason for its low price, quality is on par or better than other entry level AR's it is alloy
and It is chambered in .223 & 5.56, however there is a cheap 22 only version to be avoided as that lower can not accept a standard upper,

 

[a6m5]

I passed on the version w/o dust cover before, few years ago, but I thought the new one's did come with dust cover?. They are 223.

 

[Blood Eagle]

I think all M&Ps don't have an ejection port cover.

 

[a6m5]

This one might've been the one I saw, but I don't know.

Edit: I could swear it was on sale for $599 before, but it's now listed from the same store for $699(regular price).

 

[Barracuda413]

They are still around for $599 on sale if you look
But it does appear they now have the ejection port cover

 

[Brett]

I would look at something from Aero Precision in that price range. Something like this: Aero Precision Mid Length Rifle.

 

[a6m5]

If I was to get an AR-15, I want the shortest, most compact one that doesn't require any additional paperwork to the background check.

 

[Omnis]

The Saint meets all of Zenith's requirements though. Fully staked with a BCM MPI'd barrel and everything. Not sure about the M&P and the others.

 

[Blood Eagle]

If I was to get an AR-15, I want the shortest, most compact one that doesn't require any additional paperwork to the background check.

16" barrel is the shortest allowed by a shoulder fired rifle without NFA paperwork. Standard AR is 20". M4s are 14". I forget the overall length allowed. Most AR variants now a days have 16" barrels. They advertise 16" and 18" as mid length. Carbine length is basically 14".

 

[Brett]

If I was to get an AR-15, I want the shortest, most compact one that doesn't require any additional paperwork to the background check.

16" barrel is the shortest allowed by a shoulder fired rifle without NFA paperwork. Standard AR is 20". M4s are 14". I forget the overall length allowed. Most AR variants now a days have 16" barrels. They advertise 16" and 18" as mid length. Carbine length is basically 14".

A 14.7" barrel with a pinned and welded muzzle device that gets "barrel length" to 16" is not be classified as a SBR. Overall length then comes into play and the rifle has to be 26". However, it needs to be said that this is the general definition of a rifle and some states have different definitions.

 

[Barracuda413]

If I was to get an AR-15, I want the shortest, most compact one that doesn't require any additional paperwork to the background check.

Then get an AR15 pistol with a legal wrist brace

 

[Michael88]

Just don't forget the .223 is a tiny, tiny round, it draws all its energy from the high muzzle velocity. If you go way down on barrel length you take away its only good feature. While a small rifle is awesome and maneuverable if you end up burning half the powder outside the barrel you get an enormous amount of flash and decreased energy.
A friend of mine has a SIG 556 with, if I remember correctly, an 8'' barrel. It throws so much flame it nearly blinds the shooter and the blast is atrocious. Its a pretty useless little thing.

223 barrel length muzzle velocity chart: (left)

I've always found 14.5 a nice compromise and would not go below 12''

 

[Obelisk]

Just don't forget the .223 is a tiny, tiny round, it draws all its energy from the high muzzle velocity. If you go way down on barrel length you take away its only good feature. While a small rifle is awesome and maneuverable if you end up burning half the powder outside the barrel you get an enormous amount of flash and decreased energy.
A friend of mine has a SIG 556 with, if I remember correctly, an 8'' barrel. It throws so much flame it nearly blinds the shooter and the blast is atrocious. Its a pretty useless little thing.

223 barrel length muzzle velocity chart: (left)

I've always found 14.5 a nice compromise and would not go below 12''

How's this for a compromise?

 

[Blood Eagle]

I chamber my ARs in 5.56 not specifically .223 and reason being is 5.56 is generally cheaper and more abundant and will also shoot .223. If you specifically chamber an AR in .223 you are stuck with it unless it's chambered in .223 wylde. Also, 5.56 has a little higher pressure than .223 and had a little more muzzle velocity to at least a little bit counteract/compensate a shorter barrel length than just .223.

 

[Michael88]

One thing is for sure, Trump is definitely good news for the NRA and gun owners in the US. (And for all legal gun owners in the west). So in this regard: YAY!

 

[Barracuda413]

I prefer a 20" HBAR, with a mix of A1 and A2 features
A1 grip, triangle hand guards, three prong flash hider, A2 adjustable sight, larger butt stock
Gissele G2S trigger, 1:9 twist, aero precision lower, colt upper & BCG, it is my first AR build
but l have been thinking about building a flat top 16" carbine with some type of optics next

 

[a6m5]

One thing is for sure, Trump is definitely good news for the NRA and gun owners in the US. (And for all legal gun owners in the west). So in this regard: YAY!

Oregon reelected anti-gun governor. It's time to order high capacity magazines before they are banned. I really hate these do-gooder politicians messing around with people's lives to accomplish nothing.

 

[Barracuda413]

I hope to relocate to Arizona ASAP
And in other news
Any black powder shooters?

 

[Blood Eagle]

California passed background checks and DOJ approval for ammunition purchases and an outright ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds last night. Those magazines were already banned but existing magazines were grandfathered if purchased prior to 1/1/2000. Now they will be totally illegal even if legally purchased and are to be destroyed or sold out of state. The ammunition prop that passed also will create a new database of ammunition purchases where if you buy ammunition, your information will go into that database and they can track how much you buy etc. Great job California but I fully expected it.

 

[Swagger897]

California passed background checks and DOJ approval for ammunition purchases and an outright ban on magazines that hold more than 10 rounds last night. Those magazines were already banned but existing magazines were grandfathered if purchased prior to 1/1/2000. Now they will be totally illegal even if legally purchased and are to be destroyed or sold out of state. The ammunition prop that passed also will create a new database of ammunition purchases where if you buy ammunition, your information will go into that database and they can track how much you buy etc. Great job California but I fully expected it.

What information exactly are they storing?