Real Guns

[Bopop4]

lol, a 1250fps .22 would blow a birds head clean off!

 

[ExigeEvan]

Some of those air rifles are deadly. 1000fps would be hell to get hit by.

Well my first ever shot on it I hit a squirrel and it died instantly, the scope makes the target so big you can't miss, it's as acurate as it is lethal!

*Disclaimer, the squirrel's are a major problem and are currently being Culled, my cousin works on a golf course and is licenced

They go faster than that. It's around 1,250 fps pushing a 8-9gr. pellet. Very decent stuff. It should kill rabbits, birds, gofers, rats and the like with just one shot.

Grey squirrels, such a pest.

The laws governing air rifles in the UK are related to Kinetic Energy. Not sure what that limits a .22 too, but it's not hard to find out.

 

[MadMike'86]

Grey squirrels, such a pest.

The laws governing air rifles in the UK are related to Kinetic Energy. Not sure what that limits a .22 too, but it's not hard to find out.

Yeah the Grey squirrels are a nightmare, killed off all the native red squirrels

I'm trying to find out the specs on this rifle, will post more when I know more

 

[ExigeEvan]

Yeah the Grey squirrels are a nightmare, killed off all the native red squirrels

I'm trying to find out the specs on this rifle, will post more when I know more

Not all of them, but most. I was looking into getting an air-rifle with the idea of keeping squirrels of my mums bird feeder, then I started dating a PETA member, wasn't really an option

 

[lbsf1]

Not all of them, but most. I was looking into getting an air-rifle with the idea of keeping squirrels of my mums bird feeder, then I started dating a PETA member, wasn't really an option

Have you thought about PETA porn???


Edit: Just thought it might be an idea to mention that you will only get this joke if you watch Russell Howards Good News.

 

[MadMike'86]

Right, the air rifle I used was a Logan s16

 

[a6m5]

Only time I killed an animal was a squirrel with my Daisy air-rifle. I think it said 720 fps, but I abused that thing, so it was probably less. .177 pellet, took three shots.

It was unnecessary action in my case, but I think I was 13 or something at the time.

 

[nitrorocks]

Iv'e been hunting for years, and so has my dad. We also have been shooting forever, and he got a SEMI-automatic AK-47. It's a blast to shoot! After I'm done with a full clip I'm about 40 or so feet from where I started.

 

[Bopop4]

^ Are you allowed to have automatic weapons in the States or do they have to be veteran guns?

 

[Brett]

They go faster than that. It's around 1,250 fps pushing a 8-9gr. pellet. Very decent stuff. It should kill rabbits, birds, gofers, rats and the like with just one shot.

I read golfers instead of gofers.

 

[a6m5]

My buddy is trying to get his AK back, which he sold a few years ago when he was hard up for money. I'm helping him, because I want to shoot it.

^ Are you allowed to have automatic weapons in the States or do they have to be veteran guns?

You have to be licensed, but it is legal. I guess the license is a hassle, because nobody's licensed.

I read golfers instead of gofers.

Not unless they hit you first.

 

[nitrorocks]

^ Are you allowed to have automatic weapons in the States or do they have to be veteran guns?

It's semi auto. Single shot bursts

 

[Icarus25]

Iv'e been hunting for years, and so has my dad. We also have been shooting forever, and he got a SEMI-automatic AK-47. It's a blast to shoot! After I'm done with a full clip I'm about 40 or so feet from where I started.

Am I missing something here or are you just bad at controlling a weapon? You shouldn't even move at all with a real AK rocking on full auto, there's no way a single shot is going to cause you to move.

 

[nitrorocks]

Am I missing something here or are you just bad at controlling a weapon? You shouldn't even move at all with a real AK rocking on full auto, there's no way a single shot is going to cause you to move.

No? I'm just small haha. I was like 11 when I first shot it.

 

[a6m5]

Arizona, Icarus. It's very slippery there with the sand.

Edit: How cool is this sight?

 

[Crash]

I still want a compact, carry-type handgun, but I think Glock 26 is out. I like Glock, I believe in Glock, but it is just so much more damn money. While $499 is very reasonable, other guns, while much uglier, are going for around $300! Last straw I think are the ads for cheapo .357 Magnums(revolvers, of course) I just saw....... $300 or less! Yeah, I think G26 is out.

Though inexpensive does not necessarily equal cheap, I would just be careful about cheap conceal carry guns. I feel like most things (guns included) are "you get what you pay for," and especially for something like a gun used for defense purposes, you should make sure that the gun is good and reliable and fits you and your purposes before looking at the price tag. When it comes down to it, when your life or your livelihood is in danger, who cares about the extra $200-$300 that you spent on a better conceal carry gun that would actually defend you and maybe even save you. I wouldn't automatically rule out a G26 just because it's more expensive, just do the homework and make sure the other stuff are reliable and good before penny-pinching.

^ Are you allowed to have automatic weapons in the States or do they have to be veteran guns?

Essentially not any new automatic weapons. The ATF does not really grant licenses to private individuals to own new automatic weapons. However, automatic guns registered with the Federal Government before early 1986 are allowed to be transferred and sold to civilians if the State Government allows it and with certain restrictions.

 

[nitrorocks]

Arizona, Icarus. It's very slippery there with the sand.

Edit: How cool is this sight?

Is pretty cool sight!

 

[a6m5]

Well, tax time is here. With the chunk of change I'm getting back from Uncle Sam, I am finally stepping up the "selection process" for my next gun. I have a Glock, 870 shotgun & a .22 rifle. Naturally, my new gun will most likely be a rifle. After shooting at the 200 yard range last year, and getting some valuable input from Michael here, and my coworker, I say most likely a bolt-action. And like I mentioned last time, the front runner is the Ruger Gunsite Scout Rifle.

I'm also going to attempt finding alternate bolt-action rifles. I'd like them to have high ammo capacity, shoot .308 or .30-06, and come with iron-sights. Iron-sights, because a) I'm not getting a scope for it right away and b) I'd want a reliable, back-up sight in case I break the scope.

I'd like the price to be closer to $500, but like with the Gunsite rifle, if it's going to be the right rifle, I'm thinking I'd go double that budget(Gunsite is closer to $800).

If you guys have any suggestions, let me know. I'm not feeling the assault rifles, but I'm not gonna lie, I've been an assault rifle freak since I was a kid. I'm looking for long-er range accuracy, so AK is out, this time. But I can't say 100% no to AR15 or M4. I really shouldn't though. Well, maybe.

Though inexpensive does not necessarily equal cheap, I would just be careful about cheap conceal carry guns. I feel like most things (guns included) are "you get what you pay for," and especially for something like a gun used for defense purposes, you should make sure that the gun is good and reliable and fits you and your purposes before looking at the price tag. When it comes down to it, when your life or your livelihood is in danger, who cares about the extra $200-$300 that you spent on a better conceal carry gun that would actually defend you and maybe even save you. I wouldn't automatically rule out a G26 just because it's more expensive, just do the homework and make sure the other stuff are reliable and good before penny-pinching.

That is true. If it's going to be a "toy", it wouldn't matter as much, but if I wanted it for self-defense purposes...... I guess the sub-$300 revolvers are out. Ruger LCP's still couple hundred less though!

Is pretty cool sight!

If I was gonna buy an AR15, I'd seriously consider that.

 

[Omnis]

So Sako made me super happy and went and released their 2012 catalog. Left-hand 85 is now available.

http://www.sako.fi/sako85models.php?hunter_lh

Too bad I'm not Ted Nugent yet. Bolt action + optics = $$$

 

[a6m5]

I checked out some of their rifles, but my god, they are spendy.

On my "F-X" new gun search, I am cooling off of the rifle a bit. I've entertained the idea of .357 Magnum(revolvers), Glock 26(compact 9mm), G21SF(If I could find it), and anything between a .38 Special to a 10mm.

Bunch of us hopefully are going to a gun show, next month. I might make up my mind by after the show!

 

[Michael88]

If you guys have any suggestions, let me know. I'm not feeling the assault rifles, but I'm not gonna lie, I've been an assault rifle freak since I was a kid. I'm looking for long-er range accuracy, so AK is out, this time. But I can't say 100% no to AR15 or M4. I really shouldn't though. Well, maybe.

If you're looking for range the .308 is the way to go, bad thing is all .308 semi auto battle rifles are damn expensive (FAL, M1A, AR10/DPMS AR,PTR91), but there is also one thats a lot cheaper: the Saiga! I'm sure you are familiar with the beefed up AK system that shoots 12 gauge shotguns shells, the Saiga-12. Looks like an AK, shoots shotgun rounds. Now its also available in .308 for a fair price!
Accuracy is pretty good, its said (I sadly have no first hand experience with this rifle) its a 1-2moa shooter, 2 inch at 100yds, should be good to nail plates at up to 500yds with this kind of accuracy.

With 499 bucks the standard Saiga model costs far less than the Ruger Gunsite scout, however, the out of the box model needs a little pimping to make it less ugly.

You could build something neat as this AND reach out and touch hard at several hundred yds:

A cheap extremely reliable semi-auto with lots of range and good accuracy? Isn't that exactly what you're looking for?

They sell the gun for 499: http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/saiga-308-rifle-iz137-p-371.html

 

[Omnis]

Yeah, but if I'm going to get a Saiga it'll be the 7.62x39 for the el cheapo ubiquitous ammo.

If you want long range accuracy with a .308 just get a Tikka. That's what I'll be doing when I get money.

 

[Michael88]

If you want long range accuracy with a .308 just get a Tikka. That's what I'll be doing when I get money.

I was actually replying to a6m5's post. Semi automatic rifles with long range capabilities definitely have their places, just look at the scoped designated marksman M14's in A-Stan. Its their job to quickly engage multiple targets at distances up to 800 yds, you don't have got the time to work bolts and reload after every 5/10 shots when small groups of heavily armed enemies are quickly advancing to your position. Helmet fire guaranteed.
And the best thing is DMR's are just as good at 50yds or less because they're semi-auto. Don't want to be stuck with a bolt at CQC.

In a nutshell: if you can buy only one rifle get an allrounder if you have the cash. And thats a scoped semi auto rifle. Even when you're not in a battlefield scenario shooting semi auto rifles quickly AND accurately is just plain fun.

 

[Omnis]

Oh sure. I thought you meant for long range recreational shooting though.

 

[a6m5]

If you're looking for range the .308 is the way to go, bad thing is all .308 semi auto battle rifles are damn expensive (FAL, M1A, AR10/DPMS AR,PTR91), but there is also one thats a lot cheaper: the Saiga! I'm sure you are familiar with the beefed up AK system that shoots 12 gauge shotguns shells, the Saiga-12. Looks like an AK, shoots shotgun rounds. Now its also available in .308 for a fair price!
Accuracy is pretty good, its said (I sadly have no first hand experience with this rifle) its a 1-2moa shooter, 2 inch at 100yds, should be good to nail plates at up to 500yds with this kind of accuracy.

With 499 bucks the standard Saiga model costs far less than the Ruger Gunsite scout, however, the out of the box model needs a little pimping to make it less ugly.

You could build something neat as this AND reach out and touch hard at several hundred yds:

A cheap extremely reliable semi-auto with lots of range and good accuracy? Isn't that exactly what you're looking for?

They sell the gun for 499: http://www.mississippiautoarms.com/saiga-308-rifle-iz137-p-371.html

I'm definitely going to look at this one. 👍 While I gained this whole new respect for bolt-action rifles: 1) It would be cool to have the ability to engage the second target with very little lag. 2) I am not, and will not be a skilled enough shooter to engage targets exceeding the range of (most)semi-auto's anyway.

I have two concerns with this rifles though. First, I will be researching the reliability of Saiga rifles in general. Before I purchased my Remington 870, I did entertain the idea of Saiga semi-automatic shotguns. Although I went with a pump-action shotgun, I did see their selling line about how it was based on a AK action. I think I'll read up little bit on their rifle's track record.

Secondly, wouldn't you have to watch out for the barrel wear due to the power of .308 caliber? I'm not going to be rapid firing the thing or anything, even if I get it. Price of the ammo alone would prohibit it. I hope Saiga used good enough quality barrel to deal with the more powerful round, but of course, considering the low price, you never know.

Yeah, but if I'm going to get a Saiga it'll be the 7.62x39 for the el cheapo ubiquitous ammo.

If you want long range accuracy with a .308 just get a Tikka. That's what I'll be doing when I get money.

Tikka's look sweet, but everything I saw on their website lacked iron sight. I'd want my rifle to function as a reliable weapon as well as a toy, so I require it to have back-up sights in case the scope get damaged.

If you are looking for el cheapo, Saiga has .223 as well. They are sort of uglyish, but I think you can make them look like a AK with couple of parts & high capacity magazine?

 

[Omnis]

Tikka makes their Battue with some nice sights on it. It's a shorter barrel and I don't know if the sights interfere with a scope though.

Otherwise you'd have to get a Sako bear gun. They all have sights.

 

[Michael88]

Secondly, wouldn't you have to watch out for the barrel wear due to the power of .308 caliber? I'm not going to be rapid firing the thing or anything, even if I get it.

As far as I know the Saiga has a chrome lined barrel so that should be good for 10-12k rounds till accuracy starts to degrade noticeably. The 308 is tame, if the barrel is really worn out slap in a new one for ~ 200-300 bucks. If you really manage to shoot one out you probably spent 100 times the money a new barrel costs - only for ammo. I've never shot a rifles barrel out. Yet.
If you really want to absolutely baby the barrel stick to this rule: as long as the barrel is not too hot to touch continue shooting. If its too hot to touch shoot another rifle and let the semi cool down.

Tikka's look sweet, but everything I saw on their website lacked iron sight. I'd want my rifle to function as a reliable weapon as well as a toy, so I require it to have back-up sights in case the scope get damaged.

Back up sights thumbs up! 👍
Tikkas are great but I don't think they're what you're looking for, its a really high quality brand of bolt action rifles for hunting and bench rest shooting, its definitely not an all round gun. I wouldn't feel under gunned with one but to be perfectly honest I'd rather have a battle-tested surplus Lee Enfield No4 rifle in.303 with a 10 Shot magazine, perfect adjustable peep iron sights and a full wood stock furniture for 400 bucks than a 1000+ something off the shelf Tikka.
Just my opinion though.

 

[a6m5]

Tikka makes their Battue with some nice sights on it. It's a shorter barrel and I don't know if the sights interfere with a scope though.

Otherwise you'd have to get a Sako bear gun. They all have sights.

Now if this Tikka had iron sights, it would've been interesting. However, I think Ruger Gunsite Scout offers similar performance for hundreds less.

I did look at Sako little bit, but their pricing were eye-poppingly high. At least for me.

As far as I know the Saiga has a chrome lined barrel so that should be good for 10-12k rounds till accuracy starts to degrade noticeably. The 308 is tame, if the barrel is really worn out slap in a new one for ~ 200-300 bucks. If you really manage to shoot one out you probably spent 100 times the money a new barrel costs - only for ammo. I've never shot a rifles barrel out. Yet.
If you really want to absolutely baby the barrel stick to this rule: as long as the barrel is not too hot to touch continue shooting. If its too hot to touch shoot another rifle and let the semi cool down.

Ah, sounds good. 👍 I really like the sound of affordable + reliable .308 assault rifle. If this Saiga look like it's going to live up to its' reputation, it's gonna be one of my finalists. I still got another month until the gun show, so I'm gonna read up on those two whenever I get the chance. 👍

Back up sights thumbs up! 👍
Tikkas are great but I don't think they're what you're looking for, its a really high quality brand of bolt action rifles for hunting and bench rest shooting, its definitely not an all round gun. I wouldn't feel under gunned with one but to be perfectly honest I'd rather have a battle-tested surplus Lee Enfield No4 rifle in.303 with a 10 Shot magazine, perfect adjustable peep iron sights and a full wood stock furniture for 400 bucks than a 1000+ something off the shelf Tikka.
Just my opinion though.

Yeah, the whole another thing is the ammo capacity. I think the only exception to this rule for me is the Remington 700, just because I am a total complete Call of Duty Modern Warfare tool(my favorite sniper rifle in the game). Unfortunately, I couldn't find one R700 with iron sights. At least not chambered in .308 or .30-06.

 

[Michael88]

I would stay away from the 700, its a decent rifle but its simply outdated. I don't play Call of Duty but as far as I know its the M24 sniper system which is merely based on the 700 system. The M24 has a special manufactured system of much higher material quality and lower tolerances than the commercial 700's, they have a special barrel, a match stock etc.etc, in the end it has almost nothing in common with the commercial 700.
They even have a special workshop where they produce, update and service the M24 weapon system.
I've seen an original M24 here in a gun shop (complete package, mount, optics) and they charged -if I remember correctly- 15.000 € for it.
The 700 I've handled on the range didn't impress me, it felt ''cheap'', the bolt travel was kind of rough, and it was just unimpressive for the money. I'd rather buy a rifle from Savage or Howa, they are great out of the box.

If this Saiga look like it's going to live up to its' reputation, it's gonna be one of my finalists

The owners of 308 Saigas are very pleased with their guns reliability, in .308 its just as reliable as the smaller brother in 7.62x39. The AK47. The Saiga is a kind of ''Under the radar'' battle rifle, not many know it and those who want a battle rifle stick with the popular stuff - M1A, PTR91, FAL.

 

[a6m5]

Thanks for the heads up on the 700. It was already out of the picture anyway, and everything you just said there didn't help any.

The Saiga is a kind of ''Under the radar'' battle rifle, not many know it and those who want a battle rifle stick with the popular stuff - M1A, PTR91, FAL.

I like all of those rifles, but damn..... Saiga is so much cheaper!