Real Guns

[Dotini]

Had to google the last one. Nice. 👍

You don't really have a full-auto Thompson, do ya? I have always liked the PPKs. My favorite handgun when I was a kid was a P38 though. They are (still)nice.
[[/URL]

No, I didn't personally own the Tommy gun. I qualified on it as well as a number of other tools whilst attending an academy. The others I mentioned were for back-up or concealed carry required as a condition of my employment at the time. Currently near my pillow is a High Standard Sentinel Mk IV 9 round .22 magnum.

Respectfully yours,
Dotini

 

[BrutherSuperior]

Funny this thread should pop up. I was just looking at some guns for the heck of it. The Para Night Hawg and Walther PPS in particular. I read that the hawg is big-hand friendly and I think the Walther is ambidextrous, which is what I would need.

I'd recommend staying away from the Walther, or any smaller gun, in .40S&W. It's a really violent round and you'll start hating the thing after 20-30 rounds. 9mm, for a defensive round if that's what you're looking for, is pointless. PM me and I can share some ER stories on why you need a bullet that starts w/a .4 or bigger.

I can't really comment on the Para, never shot one. But if you're looking for a 'compact' gun for conceal use; a compact .45ACP is an oxymoron. Stick with .380/9mm short, a vintage PPK that's seen a gunsmith is a really slick weapon. Little picky about its ammo, but fun to shoot.

For smallish 45s (small for being a .45 that is), I can't say enough about a compact USP. The HKs are all black, blocky, and look sinister; but they're really gentle giants. +P rounds in a .45 compact have a kick slightly more forceful than a paintball gun, it's hysterical. (I use Corbon +P) Really great shooters that just feel 'right' when fire is spewing out of the barrel. Dead nuts reliable and little, if any, wear after a few thousand rounds. Easily the best guns I've owned.

Some people complain about the standard triggers and like their match triggers better, I don't. It's really splitting hairs and not worth the effort to change or the premium to buy an HK with a match or LEM trigger. If you want to work on trigger control, buy a snub nose .357MAG - you'll learn real quick.

For quick cleaning; Hoppe's and a can of CRC MAF (mass airflow sensor) Cleaner does wonders. The MAF Cleaner doesn't harm plastic and can be found at most parts stores. Electrical contact cleaner or the stuff made specifically for guns will bleach polymer - don't get that stuff on the grips.

 

[a6m5]

9mm, for a defensive round if that's what you're looking for, is pointless. PM me and I can share some ER stories on why you need a bullet that starts w/a .4 or bigger.

I'm a total rookie at guns, but what do you mean by "defensive" round?

And on 9mm, I have read many tests, message board posts that supported the effectiveness of select 9mm(+P, +P+, etc., but not the cheap target shoot. rounds). Combine that with the actual shot placement, I'm of the understanding that 9mm's are fully capable rounds.

Many times, I've ran into people debating 9mm vs .45ACP, but you sound very sure of your opinion there. Can you tell us more? Not questioning or doubting you, just trying to learn more.

 

[BrutherSuperior]

I'm a total rookie at guns, but what do you mean by "defensive" round?

And on 9mm, I have read many tests, message board posts that supported the effectiveness of select 9mm(+P, +P+, etc., but not the cheap target shoot. rounds). Combine that with the actual shot placement, I'm of the understanding that 9mm's are fully capable rounds.

Many times, I've ran into people debating 9mm vs .45ACP, but you sound very sure of your opinion there. Can you tell us more? Not questioning or doubting you, just trying to learn more.

As a young lad, I worked in a hospital during college...Cook County Hospital of ER fame as well as the rest of the medical district to be exact (went to UIC).

Back then, the west side of Chicago was still a shooting gallery with all the housing projects scattered about. If every bullet fired from a gun hit a body, the murder count in Chicago would dwarf the Iraq war in 1 month. Depending on where you are and what bar/club you crawl out of, you might hear some "pops" in the distance. Lots of shooting, very little hitting the intended target though...

In my time there, I half-assed it and usually took prolonged smoke breaks and lunches with security and on-duty officers. The stories they told were legendary. Anyways, one thing they told me that stuck with me is, and I'm paraphrasing, "if you want to kill something, you need a bullet that starts with a 4".

Many times, some thug/gangster would be shot with a smaller round and leave the hospital in a day's time. One story, a man was shot over 10 times in the chest w/a 9mm - he lived. In the ghetto, they tend to use smaller calibers I guess.

All the times they've seen gunshot victims, they've never seen anyone survive after getting shot w/a .45 or .40 in the chest. With .22, .25, .380, and the occasional 9mm - the person who was shot often lived.

So what I mean by a 'defensive round' is something designed to kill another. There's no parsing with words or nuance about it, most handguns are made to kill people. Might as well get the one that does the job most efficiently and the ones that do have calibers that start w/a 4.

I'd trust a seasoned cop & ER security over a ballistics chart any day.

....

forgot to add;

There's something really cool with +P rounds you probably won't find an explanation to in a ballistics chart; they shoot softer. While the explosion is more violent, it happens in a shorter amount of time. Thus, they feel 'weaker' than your garden variety FMJ range round. The downside? They're more expensive to shoot and wear your gun quicker. The second part of that comes with the caveat that if your gun wears quick, +p will wear it out faster. The only thing I've noticed with my HKs is the lack of wear despite who the hell knows how many thousands of rounds I've shot through them. Amazing pieces of engineering. Can't say the same about Sig though...

 

[a6m5]

As a young lad, I worked in a hospital during college...Cook County Hospital of ER fame as well as the rest of the medical district to be exact (went to UIC).

Back then, the west side of Chicago was still a shooting gallery with all the housing projects scattered about. If every bullet fired from a gun hit a body, the murder count in Chicago would dwarf the Iraq war in 1 month. Depending on where you are and what bar/club you crawl out of, you might hear some "pops" in the distance. Lots of shooting, very little hitting the intended target though...

In my time there, I half-assed it and usually took prolonged smoke breaks and lunches with security and on-duty officers. The stories they told were legendary. Anyways, one thing they told me that stuck with me is, and I'm paraphrasing, "if you want to kill something, you need a bullet that starts with a 4".

Many times, some thug/gangster would be shot with a smaller round and leave the hospital in a day's time. One story, a man was shot over 10 times in the chest w/a 9mm - he lived. In the ghetto, they tend to use smaller calibers I guess.

All the times they've seen gunshot victims, they've never seen anyone survive after getting shot w/a .45 or .40 in the chest. With .22, .25, .380, and the occasional 9mm - the person who was shot often lived.

So what I mean by a 'defensive round' is something designed to kill another. There's no parsing with words or nuance about it, most handguns are made to kill people. Might as well get the one that does the job most efficiently and the ones that do have calibers that start w/a 4.

I'd trust a seasoned cop & ER security over a ballistics chart any day.

Well, thanks for the explanation, and at the end of the day, while they are still opinions, I do agree that input from veterans in the field on something like this should be taken into a serious consideration.

From what I've hearing, .38 is not as effective as a 9mm. .40 is not nearly as popular as the 9mm, or .45ACP. When I consider the ammunition availability, .40 is automatically out for this very reason. Not that .40 is hard to find, but 9 & .45's are far easier to find.

I do think, and concur that .45ACP is the safer choice over 9mm. 9mm, even with the +P, etc., you can't help, but to sense a little compromise there. My own impression is that 9mm +P hollow point = .45ACP, .45ACP +P hollowpoint > 9mm +P hollow point

There are couple of 9mm advantage I like over the .45ACP:

Control - less recoil(easier, more accurate second shot)

Price - When you are talking hundreds of practice rounds, the price differential is substantial. And more practice likely improves your accuracy, etc.

I guess the third, smaller advantage is that magazine capacity. You may not need 17 rounds in the mag, but it's nice to know that you won't have to reload.

Guns are interesting, but ammos are fascinating. I've been sensing that it's not just straight science, but also there are a lot of philosophies involved in it. Getting into 12 gauge just confused me even more. So far, the two big debate I've seen are the very 9mm vs .45ACP, and also on what the superior home defense 12-gauge round is. Some like bird shots(smaller BB's), some like buck shots(bigger). Some uses slugs(one big bullet), some mixes up with first two round's this, next two that one, last two these.

Edit:

forgot to add;

There's something really cool with +P rounds you probably won't find an explanation to in a ballistics chart; they shoot softer. While the explosion is more violent, it happens in a shorter amount of time. Thus, they feel 'weaker' than your garden variety FMJ range round. The downside? They're more expensive to shoot and wear your gun quicker. The second part of that comes with the caveat that if your gun wears quick, +p will wear it out faster. The only thing I've noticed with my HKs is the lack of wear despite who the hell knows how many thousands of rounds I've shot through them. Amazing pieces of engineering. Can't say the same about Sig though...

I have yet to fire +P or +P+ rounds(9mm), just regular hollow points & target shooting rounds. Premium ammo's are either hard to find or expensive, locally. I've been browsing online stores like cheaperthandirt.com for those.

 

[slayer91]

I have shot many guns (including LEGALLY REGISTERED machine guns, such as Thompson M1A1, Browning M2, Browning 1919, and M16A2). I currently own a Smith & Wesson M&P15 in .223, Bulgarian AK74 in 5.45X39mm, Mosin-Nagant M91/30 in 7.62X54R, Mauser Kar98 in 8mm, Steyr M95 Carbine in 8X56, Winchester 1300 20 Ga., Benelli Nova 12 Ga., Remington Model 7 in 7mm-08, Weatherby Mk. V in 7mm Weatherby Magnum, Ruger 10/22, Marlin 981 .22, Star Firestar Plus 9mm, Ruger Blackhawk .44 Magnum, and a Walther PP in .380. Shooting is probably my favorite hobby. Unfortunately ammunnition prices really put a hold on that in the past couple years.

 

[a6m5]

Indeed, ammos aren't cheap. My problem isn't that, however, because I go shooting only 2, 3 times a year. We pretty much have to drive out of the city, make a day out of it. Since I have Nissan Altima, I don't really want to take my car into the woods, logging roads. We have just one guy in the group who actually have a SUV that can carry all of us(but his wife won't let him own a gun ), so I'm strongly considering purchasing an SUV for my next vehicle.

 

[Omnis]

Well, if I have to use a pistol for defense, the point of it wouldn't be to make sure people don't survive. I'm don't think I would care whether someone lived or died, as long as I get to or my party gets to see another day. Sure, people survive 9mm, but are they effectively eliminated as a threat after being shot? Actually, I would prefer that people not die as long as a threat can be eliminated with a weaker round. See where I'm going with this?

If I want to make sure people don't walk out of my sights (home defense), they make shotguns for that.

 

[slayer91]

Well, if I have to use a pistol for defense, the point of it wouldn't be to make sure people don't survive. I'm don't think I would care whether someone lived or died, as long as I get to or my party gets to see another day. Sure, people survive 9mm, but are they effectively eliminated as a threat after being shot? Actually, I would prefer that people not die as long as a threat can be eliminated with a weaker round. See where I'm going with this?

If I want to make sure people don't walk out of my sights (home defense), they make shotguns for that.

A well placed shot to the pelvis with a 9mm is more than enough to incapacitate a threat as long as they don't have a gun. Once hit, they will instantly collapse. If they have a gun, you will be pretty much forced to "shoot to kill". For personal defense, the 9mm is sufficient, but many will reccommend something a little more potent, such as a .40 S&W or 45 .ACP. For home defense, a shotgun is great but the potentional for collateral damage is high. A large caliber pistol with franagible ammunition may be another route you could consider for that role.

 

[Crash]

Holy batman thread resurrection!

I've only gone to the shooting range a few times, and every time, I've only shot handguns. I would really like to try shooting rifles and shotguns, but it's hard to find a place to go shotgun shooting here in the city.

a6m5, You sound like you really like your Glock. What guns were you considering before you settled on the Glock? Do you conceal carry, and if so, is your Glock too big?

How about you, BrutherSuperior? Do you conceal carry your compact USP? What do you think about that gun overall and it vs. the non-compact USP?

Talking of which though, where IS Solid Lifters?

 

[BrutherSuperior]

From what I've hearing, .38 is not as effective as a 9mm. .40 is not nearly as popular as the 9mm, or .45ACP. When I consider the ammunition availability, .40 is automatically out for this very reason. Not that .40 is hard to find, but 9 & .45's are far easier to find.

You have to define 'effective'. If you're CCW, the gun is as much of a deterrent as it is a defensive tool. You're going to be harmed b/c said perp thinks your not armed, guess again.

There are couple of 9mm advantage I like over the .45ACP:

Control - less recoil(easier, more accurate second shot)

Not entirely true. This is really gun dependent as things like recoil springs and bore axis can make a HUGE difference. Like I said in my previous post, my HKs with +P rounds have a kick almost as soft as a paintball marker. Guns like the 1911 are the go-to guns for target shooting b/c of their lower bore axis. Less kick, muzzle flip, and the 2nd shot is accurate.

45s are also loud and spit fire everywhere. I don't care who you are, that's cool.

Price - When you are talking hundreds of practice rounds, the price differential is substantial. And more practice likely improves your accuracy, etc.

I guess the third, smaller advantage is that magazine capacity. You may not need 17 rounds in the mag, but it's nice to know that you won't have to reload.

No arguing here on the price of ammo. I don't shoot as often as I wished, so it doesn't hit my pocketbook too badly. If you're an avid shooter; absolutely, price should be a concern. If you shoot occasionally, buy something cool and forget about price. Get something that makes you giggle and puts big holes in paper and make sure it's a quality piece. Besides guns and good hand-tools, can you really think of anything else that most people keep for over 10 years or pass down to their grandkids?

I cannot stress getting a good gun enough. You're going to keep it for a long time, it may even save your life, so when you do choose one...make it a keeper. Starter homes or wives are ok...not guns or tools though.

Guns are interesting, but ammos are fascinating. I've been sensing that it's not just straight science, but also there are a lot of philosophies involved in it.

It's definitely a black art.

I have yet to fire +P or +P+ rounds(9mm), just regular hollow points & target shooting rounds. Premium ammo's are either hard to find or expensive, locally. I've been browsing online stores like cheaperthandirt.com for those.

Buy a box of 20 rounds just to feel the difference.

It's pricey and not the smartest thing to use for target practice, but it would be a good idea just to be familiar with them if you plan on using a handgun for home defense. While getting used to the recoil isn't a bad thing, knowing your gun will not jam up with a particular brand +P hollow point would be nice to know.

Some guns are very picky about what you feed them, others not. You'll never 'really' know until you try. I have an HK Compact Tactical that will shoot a rock if it fit in the chamber. It's big brother, a full-size Tactical, will sometimes miss-feed Blazer ammo. That's nice to know if you ask me.

I can't comment on shotguns, never owned one as I do not have a safe big enough.

 

[a6m5]

Holy batman thread resurrection!

I've only gone to the shooting range a few times, and every time, I've only shot handguns. I would really like to try shooting rifles and shotguns, but it's hard to find a place to go shotgun shooting here in the city.

a6m5, You sound like you really like your Glock. What guns were you considering before you settled on the Glock? Do you conceal carry, and if so, is your Glock too big?

How about you, BrutherSuperior? Do you conceal carry your compact USP? What do you think about that gun overall and it vs. the non-compact USP?

Talking of which though, where IS Solid Lifters?

I don't know where Solid is. I did PM him.

I really like my G17(9mm), but I don't conceal carry, and yes, it is too big for it. For me, G17 is not only a toy, but is also a self-defense weapon, so I wanted a damn reliable one. I feel that Glock is as reliable as it gets in the $500 price range, not to mention how fun it is to shoot.

Sounds like you also have to consider getting a truck or SUV just to shoot.

Edit:

You have to define 'effective'. If you're CCW, the gun is as much of a deterrent as it is a defensive tool. You're going to be harmed b/c said perp thinks your not armed, guess again.

Well, 'effective' as in how much physical harm, or damage.

Not entirely true. This is really gun dependent as things like recoil springs and bore axis can make a HUGE difference. Like I said in my previous post, my HKs with +P rounds have a kick almost as soft as a paintball marker. Guns like the 1911 are the go-to guns for target shooting b/c of their lower bore axis. Less kick, muzzle flip, and the 2nd shot is accurate.

Generally, then. Unlike ammos, trying out certain model of handguns to shoot is much harder. It's hardly scientific, but I'm OK with 'generally' on this.

No arguing here on the price of ammo. I don't shoot as often as I wished, so it doesn't hit my pocketbook too badly. If you're an avid shooter; absolutely, price should be a concern. If you shoot occasionally, buy something cool and forget about price. Get something that makes you giggle and puts big holes in paper and make sure it's a quality piece. Besides guns and good hand-tools, can you really think of anything else that most people keep for over 10 years or pass down to their grandkids?

I cannot stress getting a good gun enough. You're going to keep it for a long time, it may even save your life, so when you do choose one...make it a keeper. Starter homes or wives are ok...not guns or tools though.

I do understand about the importance of quality firearm, at least on your main, go-to guns. You should be comfortable with them, able to trust them, confident shooting them.

Buy a box of 20 rounds just to feel the difference.

It's pricey and not the smartest thing to use for target practice, but it would be a good idea just to be familiar with them if you plan on using a handgun for home defense. While getting used to the recoil isn't a bad thing, knowing your gun will not jam up with a particular brand +P hollow point would be nice to know.

Some guns are very picky about what you feed them, others not. You'll never 'really' know until you try. I have an HK Compact Tactical that will shoot a rock if it fit in the chamber. It's big brother, a full-size Tactical, will sometimes miss-feed Blazer ammo. That's nice to know if you ask me.

From reading ammunition reviews, G17's are one of the least picky handguns when it comes to ammos. I have personally shot many cheaper ammo's through mine, including Blazer, even old reloads. But yeah, I am planning on trying out at least 2, 3 different types, figure out which one I like more.

It's a weird one, but I'm interested in these as well:

I can't comment on shotguns, never owned one as I do not have a safe big enough.

I don't have a safe yet, might not even get one, as I'm a apartment dweller. Shotgun's are whole another animal, I must say. Just when I thought I was starting to get the basics down on guns in general!

 

[BrutherSuperior]

How about you, BrutherSuperior? Do you conceal carry your compact USP? What do you think about that gun overall and it vs. the non-compact USP?

Talking of which though, where IS Solid Lifters?

On Glocks; I can't shoot those things worth a damn. Something about them, or me, that just doesn't click.

There's no CCW in Illinois or California. Hell, most of my guns are not even legal in CA b/c of the barrels & magazines. But I've since relocated from San Diego so there's no need for you to call the government.

Between the 4 HKs I have; I like the compacts the most and for some odd reason, I'm insanely accurate with them (have 2; a compact tactical and standard .45 compact). The full-size tactical has the fancy trigger and sights, a little less recoil, but I'm not as good with that gun for some reason. The Mk23 I shoot the least; this gun is better if your target is 25 yards or more away. The thing is gigantic but it's a pussycat to shoot. Real smooth and despite its size, it feels great.

But between all , the one I couldn't live without is the compact and the one I'd sell tomorrow would be the full size. I can rapid fire 8+1 in an area smaller than a CD @ 20 yards AFTER I've already shot a couple hundred rounds. I love that gun. The full size does everything the Mk23 does, it's just a little smaller and I'm not a fan of target sights it has. The Mk23 I bought b/c of a price markdown and to complete my small collection. While it's a great gun, it's terribly impractical for anything other than being a collection piece.

I'm not sure I could CCW the compact .45 without some mild discomfort or bulges through my clothes. It's the same size as my old Sig 226, which is considered a full size gun.

The Sig 226 was an OK gun I guess. It felt great at the gun counter but the ergonomics went away after you fire a magazine or 2. My hand would quickly get tired and it just wasn't fun to shoot.

To compound things, it was a bitch to clean and there was some barrel wear. The HKs show no wear while you could feel the wear on the 226's barrel when you cleaned it. Not a bad gun, but not great either IMO. The .40 S&W caliber probably has the most to do with that though. I've shot a 229 in 9mm and it was night & day...but not good enough to buy one in place of an HK .45.

Last gun I have is an old Nazi PPK. Passed down from my non-Nazi grandfather; this is more of a museum piece like the Mk23 and comes out maybe once a year to clean the cobwebs out. Really slick action and fun to shoot. It's had some work over the years to smooth things out, nothing major has ever broken or needed replacement though.

The only thing with it is if your hand gets a little sweaty or your grip isn't right, when the slide comes back it can catch the meaty part of your hand and take some skin with it. The other thing is that it's really picky about what ammo is used. New magazine springs seemed to make the problem worse too. The best thing about the gun is its history, but I wouldn't hesitate to purchase a new one for CCW if Illinois changes their laws.

The only other .380 that I have a bit of experience with is a Beretta that I cannot remember the model of. Looks like a mini 92 and is a really nice plinker. The rubber grips in particular were awesome.

If you're looking for a recreational firearm on the ridiculous side; blackpowder.

Ever been to a range where the person next to you is shooting a black powder gun and doesn't warn you first? If not, don't be surprised if you pee a little when they fire. Don't worry, no one will see you did as the room will be filled with smoke for the next 10min or so (if you shoot indoors). For a gun with some 'theatre' I really don't think they can be beat.

 

[a6m5]

On Glocks; I can't shoot those things worth a damn. Something about them, or me, that just doesn't click.

Like shooting a basketball, I think the mechanics are different from people to people.

I am confident that my G17 will fire, I am comfortable with the controls. However, I am far from being as accurate as I'd like to be with this gun. I am eager to practice though, as they are fun to shoot for me.

 

[Icarus25]

I'll throw my input in here. TA, the CZ is a quality firearm. It's one I'm considering. The Stoeger Cougar is also a decent compact 9mm. It used to be a Beretta model but they transferred production to Stoeger. Those are metal frames so they can be heavy. Springfield, Ruger, Sig Sauer, Smith & Wesson, even Taurus make good pistols. The gun I really want is an FNH FNP9/FNX9. I prefer hammer fired as opposed to striker fired. It's about the same price as the other 9s, comes with 3 mags and different backstraps to adjust how it fits in the hand. Plus it's just a nice looking gun.

If I had the means, I'd buy a semi-custom 1911 just because the ergonomics are fantastic, it's .45, and the one's I've shot are amazingly controllable.

 

[turboash78]

I own a Winchester Model 70 in 30-06 for all my big game and a Remington Model 870 Wingmaster for bird. Both fantastic guns! Have never fired a handgun, but would like to.

 

[Jedi2016]

.."if you want to kill something, you need a bullet that starts with a 4".

They make magnum rounds smaller than a 4. Somebody catches a .357 magnum hollow-point to the chest, in pistol range, they'll be extremely lucky if they ever see another sunrise.

BrutherSuperior's right about black powder, though. BIG boom. Good for getting someone's attention. I bet even with their ears ringing from the first shot, they'll still hear the click of the hammer cocking for the next one.

 

[Solid Lifters]

I'm here, just too busy to respond. My boys are not playing any sports at the moment, so I finally have a lot of quality time with them. Normally, they're at games or practice then at friends.

Don't have time to go everything I've read here that was wrong, but I can say California has CCWs. I have one. Some places are easy to get one and some are impossible. It depends on where you live and if the head sheriff is a douchebag liberal. What makes it difficult to get certain firearms here in CA is the testing they must pass. 3 guns of each model must be supplied plus a $1,000 to the DOJ to see if it will pass the CA gun quality tests. If they don't, you can't sell or import the gun.

Oh, and .45 is a lot more powerfull than a 9mm. At a grain weight of 115gr. a 9mm has very little recoil, especially if the pistol sits low in the hand like a Glock does. Most .45 are straight walled grips that make them sit high in the hand but that's changing. At a minimum of 185gr, .45 auto has a lot more recoil because of the heavier grain weight and higher velocity. But, you can reduce recoil a lot of 'target' loads, and with lower grain weights like 155grs. and 165grs. which is now the standard competition bullet weights.

Not a huge fan of Glocks, or plastic pistols, but that doesn't mean they're bad. Just not for me. Plus, I'm enjoying my new Bodyguard 38. A little different, but I've gotten used to it. Remember, if you get just one pistol, make it one that can easily be carried in a pants or jacket pocket. If not, you'll never bring it along. A handgun left at home is a useless handgun.

Any questions, just ask. I hope I can answer them in a timely manner.

 

[Blitz187]

Beretta 9mm... At a shooting range... first and only time I did... Great fun!

 

[ledhed]

I try anything I can get the chance to fire --at Machine gun show my best time ever was on quad .50 anti aircratft from wwII Korea era ..at junk cars...but tghey charge 5.00 a bullet so I got 2 minutes of ammo.

essentially any firearm I own or carry has been fired .
But there are tons of threads on this subject so I won't repeat ..I prefer handguns --favorite for now is Glock 21.

For home 12 gauge deer gun -combat shotgun is great --use no 4 steel shot.

I have a winchester pump with exteneded mag and nice grip added--my current favorite shotgun .

My Current most used long gun ..since I bought 50k surplus ,303 british rounds and clips is my Enfield.

 

[a6m5]

$5 a bullet. I guess it's worth it though, and you pay the man with a big grin on your face.

Talking with you guys make me want to go get a .45ACP, something like G21. I'd have to sell my G17 first though.

I ordered Blackhawk Knoxx stock my Remington 870 shotgun:



This guy installed the same stock on the same shotgun I have. I wasn't too crazy about the looks of it at first, but they sort of grew on me, so I ordered one last night. *cough*breakpoint*cough* You can adjust the length of the stock by up to 4", but the main thing was the recoil reduction. Most people seems to be pretty happy with its' effectiveness. I guess I'll find out.

Another thing I was kind of wondering about was the foregrip? They look cool, but way you'd pump, or the mechanics of it I think might be little weird for me? Has any of you tried it? How did you like it?

 

[Omnis]

How is a pistol grip better than a regular stock on a shotgun? Seems to me like Mossberg's home defense 410 is a better design.

 

[Dotini]

Bodyguard 38.

:tup:Cream of the crop of small pistols, along with the Centennial Airweight (Model 642).

 

[a6m5]

How is a pistol grip better than a regular stock on a shotgun? Seems to me like Mossberg's home defense 410 is a better design.

I've only shot them with standard stock, so I can't tell you for sure if I'm going to prefer the pistol grip or not. I get the feeling that I'm gonna like it better, but it remains to be seen.

And the reason for my purchase of this stock is for the recoil reduction. They claim 95%, and I don't even know what they mean by that, I don't even buy a figure that high anyway. But as someone who doesn't enjoy shooting shotguns, I thought that I could use all the help I can get.

On the Mossberg 410, don't know anything about .410, except that there are revolvers that can shoot it. Badassssss....

 

[Omnis]

I mean it's a better design because the pistol grip is on the pump action handle. Seems like that would help you brace for recoil better than a pistol grip on the trigger handle.

 

[a6m5]

I mean it's a better design because the pistol grip is on the pump action handle. Seems like that would help you brace for recoil better than a pistol grip on the trigger handle.

Ah, I thought they were just called foregrips, but you meant pistol-foregrips.

Yeah, as far as the stability goes, I tend to agree with you. It's the pumping action that I'm not sure about. When I 'pretend', it feels awkward. I've never shot one with a pistol grip type foregrip either, so I can't say for sure....

 

[Omnis]

Yeah, I mean, To me it makes more sense to have a standard stock with a foregrip if you want more stability or whatever. I've never shot a gun that you're supposed to shoulder with a pistol grip, but I imagine that that is a little awkward. And if you have a pistol grip you can't easily use your Jukendo skills to take someone's head off with the stock/butt of the gun.

 

[a6m5]

Yeah, I mean, To me it makes more sense to have a standard stock with a foregrip if you want more stability or whatever. I've never shot a gun that you're supposed to shoulder with a pistol grip, but I imagine that that is a little awkward. And if you have a pistol grip you can't easily use your Jukendo skills to take someone's head off with the stock/butt of the gun.

I LOVE Nissan Jukendo!

"Ju" as in "soft, gentle", or gun? Just curious, never heard that one before.

I'm curious about the (rear)pistol grip on a long gun as well. I'm hoping it's not too weird.

 

[Omnis]

Bayonet, gun-kendo.

 

[a6m5]

Of course! "Juken", as in "bayonet"!

I'll stick with the 12 gauge shells, thanks.