Real Guns

[Brett]

I made another trip to the gun range earlier today. The two new magazines I bought functioned perfectly. I also ended up taking one spent casing home; the case managed to make home in my pocket.

 

[f1reb1rd]

I made another trip to the gun range earlier today. The two new magazines I bought functioned perfectly. I also ended up taking one spent casing home; the case managed to make home in my pocket.

When we shot our SKS this happened. It's one of those weird things in life

 

[hogger129]

I have a Springfield 1911 with about $500 into it that shoots a nice ragged hole at 25 yards. Only trouble I had with it was when the recoil spring wore out.

 

[Jedi2016]

When we shot our SKS this happened. It's one of those weird things in life

What's funnier is when you bring home a shell from a gun you weren't firing. I think that's happened once, but I was at the range with some friends standing fairly close, so it wasn't a big mystery, just kinda funny.

Now, if you go to the range all by yourself and come home with a .45 casing in your pocket when all you were shooting was 9mm, then you got a problem.

 

[a6m5]

It's bit cramped at the shooting range I go to. I was shooting a Kimber .45, but my buddy's 9mm casing hit me more than once. And I did take a spent case home. It ended up in the gun case somehow.

 

[Michael88]

Yesterday I made my first blackpowder cartridges, man, that was just too much fun!

525 grain .458, lubed with 65 / 35 beeswax / tallow, OAL 2.600, 51 grains of Swiss FFG blackpowder, CCI match LR primer, Starline brass, grease cookie, powder charge slightly compressed (1/4''), veeeery light taper crimp. Estimated velocity: ~ 1200 fps

Look at those bullets, they're super long and heavy! With sectional density like that they must penetrate like crazy and they're even quite a bit heavier than a shotgun slug.

And some 395 grainers round nose, same lube, OAL about 2.540, 62 grains of Swiss FFG, Estimated velocity: about 1360 fps.
Crimped them little too hard but I hope thats not gonna be much of a problem.

Now I'm, ready to do some late 1800's western long range buffalo shooting. Yeeehaw!

 

[Solid Lifters]

Yesterday I made my first blackpowder cartridges, man, that was just too much fun!

525 grain .458, lubed with 65 / 35 beeswax / tallow, OAL 2.600, 51 grains of Swiss FFG blackpowder, CCI match LR primer, Starline brass, grease cookie, powder charge slightly compressed (1/4''), veeeery light taper crimp. Estimated velocity: ~ 1200 fps

Look at those bullets, they're super long and heavy! With sectional density like that they must penetrate like crazy and they're even quite a bit heavier than a shotgun slug.

And some 395 grainers round nose, same lube, OAL about 2.540, 62 grains of Swiss FFG, Estimated velocity: about 1360 fps.
Crimped them little too hard but I hope thats not gonna be much of a problem.

Now I'm, ready to do some late 1800's western long range buffalo shooting. Yeeehaw!

Crimping too much only reduces the life of the brass and the need to trim them sooner. Not to worry.

First job reloading your own? Fun hobby, isn't it?

Welcome to your new addiction!

 

[Michael88]

I'm an avid muzzle loader shooter so I *technically* was handloading thousands of times before, but yes, those are my first self-loaded metallic cartridges.

To be honest, I've always got excellent accuracy with most high quality factory ammunition so I never really bothered about reloading...well...until one of my friends showed me his LEE 50th anniversary reloading set.
On that fateful day I decided that instead of buying another rifle I buy a reloading set.
And reloading is great, whats more awesome than putting big shiny brass cases, black powder charges and huge lead slugs together?

 

[a6m5]

525 grain .458

What the 🤬

 

[Solid Lifters]

What the 🤬

To stop buffalo, grizzly, polar & kodiak bears, moose in NA. Cape buffalo, lions, elephants rhinoceros and hippos in Africa. Tigers, lions, rhinocerosand and elephants in Asia. To stop them, you need big, heavy bullets.

The bullets get bigger and heavier than that!

 

[a6m5]

To stop buffalo, grizzly, polar & kodiak bears, moose in NA. Cape buffalo, lions, elephants rhinoceros and hippos in Africa. Tigers, lions, rhinocerosand and elephants in Asia. To stop them, you need big, heavy bullets.

The bullets get bigger and heavier than that!

I just looked up .375 H&H, because that was the largest rifle round I've ever fired. Wiki says that is the minimum requirement for large African games, and the 'heavy' .375 has only 300 grain bullet.

All I can say is unbelievable, but after seeing that video of boar not dying from being repeatedly shot with a .45ACP, I certainly understand it.

 

[Michael88]

The .375 H&H and the .45-70, .45-90, .45-110 and .45-120 are very different animals, the .375 H&H shoots a medium weight very fast and hard projectile while the big .45's rely on pure bullet weight and slow steady expansion to plow through the biggest animals from any angle.
Its like the difference between a freight train and a fast racecar. I've heard the .45-70 out-penetrates the .375 by 100% so the .375 is more of a Lion and bison gun than an rhino or hippo rifle.

That said, the Alaskan guides rely on the .45's in modern lever action rifles and the big-slow philosophy, and so would I.

Anyway, if I were close to a rhino and taking a shot I would poop my pants with any caliber short of an Anti Tank rifle round.
525 grains suddenly isn't a lot when you're close to a huge powerful pissed off 10K lbs animal.
(Which shouldn't be hunted in the first place)

 

[Solid Lifters]

The .375 H&H and the .45-70, .45-90, .45-110 and .45-120 are very different animals, the .375 H&H shoots a medium weight very fast and hard projectile while the big .45's rely on pure bullet weight and slow steady expansion to plow through the biggest animals from any angle.
Its like the difference between a freight train and a fast racecar. I've heard the .45-70 out-penetrates the .375 by 100% so the .375 is more of a Lion and bison gun than an rhino or hippo rifle.

That said, the Alaskan guides rely on the .45's in modern lever action rifles and the big-slow philosophy, and so would I.

Anyway, if I were close to a rhino and taking a shot I would poop my pants with any caliber short of an Anti Tank rifle round.
525 grains suddenly isn't a lot when you're close to a huge powerful pissed off 10K lbs animal.
(Which shouldn't be hunted in the first place)

Sure they should! African orphans need to eat, too! They just can't live entirely on American peanut butter!

 

[a6m5]

It might be a self-defense at that point, regardless of right or wrong.

 

[a6m5]

OK, I'm a google-fanboy. They try to shove different search engine on you all the time. Yahoo, Bing, etc., etc. Me being a google-fanboy, I've refused change, and when they force them upon me, I switched them back, or over to google.

I guess that ended tonight.

I've gone colder on rifle shopping recently, but I was bored and looking around a bit tonight. I see this Sig Sauer P220 .45ACP, available also in carry model. I see the advertised price in my local online classifieds(just under a grand), I try my google shopping search.......... yup, you guessed it, nothing. Tried 'springfield rifle' next, then 'remington 870', nothing. I go to Bing, comes right up.

Google Bans Guns in Shopping

Do you guys remember them making big deal about China & their censorship? Now when I think of my ex-favorite search engine, all I can picture in my head is a BIG-RED-STAR.

Guess who's coming back as my default search engine at work?(and my coworkers' after I tell them<<<more former google fans) Bing, that's who. Guess who will be my new homepage? Yup.

I urge you guys to do the same. I think I might be getting rid of Google Chrome, too. FireFox was OK......

 

[Solid Lifters]

OK, I'm a google-fanboy. They try to shove different search engine on you all the time. Yahoo, Bing, etc., etc. Me being a google-fanboy, I've refused change, and when they force them upon me, I switched them back, or over to google.

I guess that ended tonight.

I've gone colder on rifle shopping recently, but I was bored and looking around a bit tonight. I see this Sig Sauer P220 .45ACP, available also in carry model. I see the advertised price in my local online classifieds(just under a grand), I try my google shopping search.......... yup, you guessed it, nothing. Tried 'springfield rifle' next, then 'remington 870', nothing. I go to Bing, comes right up.

Google Bans Guns in Shopping

Do you guys remember them making big deal about China & their censorship? Now when I think of my ex-favorite search engine, all I can picture in my head is a BIG-RED-STAR.

Guess who's coming back as my default search engine at work?(and my coworkers' after I tell them<<<more former google fans) Bing, that's who. Guess who will be my new homepage? Yup.

I urge you guys to do the same. I think I might be getting rid of Google Chrome, too. FireFox was OK......

Get MSN. Seriously. I have Chrome only to play games. That's about it. Bing is the defealt search engine and it kicks Google's ass, IMO.

 

[a6m5]

MSN as the internet service provider, or just as homepage?

Anywho, this is the Sig that caused it all:

Sig P220 Carry Elite Dark

For little over $1,000 though, it is steep. I could buy two Glocks for that. It's just so frigging sweet looking, and you know it's gonna shoot nice!

 

[MarinaDiamandis]

It's just so frigging sweet looking, and you know it's gonna shoot nice!

Agreed, love how the smaller SIG pistols look.

 

[Solid Lifters]

MSN as the internet service provider, or just as homepage?

Anywho, this is the Sig that caused it all:

Sig P220 Carry Elite Dark

For little over $1,000 though, it is steep. I could buy two Glocks for that. It's just so frigging sweet looking, and you know it's gonna shoot nice!

Nice pistol, but it's not approve for CA. What big shock. Nothing really good is because of the expense. Doesn't matter anyway, I'm not a fan of Sigs. They sit to high in the hand which means a lot more recoil flip.

Oh, MSN is not a service provider. It's a web portal with a bunch of combined features. I only use the web browser. It's a simple and easy design, which is why I prefer it over other web browser. However, it's not as safe or fast as other web browsers. But, if you have decent web security software, safety wont be an issue.

Oh, and just to let you know some BAD NEWS. The douche-bag liberal from CA, Dirty Diane Fienstien is reintroducing the federal 'assualt weapons' ban. Prepare to do battle, folks.

 

[Zenith]

The funny thing about the Google firearms search ban is that their reason for the ban was that they wanted Google Shopping to be a "safe place for people of all ages."

... Which makes it a bit perplexing when I can successfully search "Anal Penetrator".

Oh, and just to let you know some BAD NEWS. The douche-bag liberal from CA, Dirty Diane Fienstien is reintroducing the federal 'assualt weapons' ban. Prepare to do battle, folks.

Yup... Hide your shoulder things that go up.


Never really liked Sigs all that much either. Apparently newer models have had quality issues since they stopped producing them in Germany.

Speaking of bore axis, I'm really interested in that new Caracal thing from the UAE.

 

[a6m5]

Seriously, California gun control scares me. On EPA-type of stuff, Oregon eats up a lot of what California comes up with. I'm somewhat surprised(and glad) that Oregon doesn't follow the lead on gun control, and also tight regulation on knives.

On Sig, quality issue? Seriously? I thought Sig was at, or near the top, when it came to build quality. I never considered the recoil issue either. I know that I didn't like Gen 2 Glock 21, but I figured that was because of: 1) shape of the grip 2) plastic frame

My local range's rental Sig only go up to the 9mm. If I try that, do you guys think I can get at least little bit of feel on how they shoot?

I still don't know what I'm gonna do anyway. Over a grand for handgun is a lot of money for me.

 

[Brett]

There has/had been some quality control issues and from what I have read, most of that has been fixed. I have fired quite a few rounds through a P226. From what I have shot, the P226 is a fantastic weapon and is very accurate. I especially like that Sig has gone to what were the E2 grips on the P226. Those grips make the grip much better.

Much like other German manufacturers, such as H&K, BMW, etc., Sig is very proud of their products and charge accordingly. However, if you buy a SIG, then you get a very good firearm, albeit a fairly expensive one. You would also own the same firearm that Navy SEALs use.

 

[a6m5]

There has/had been some quality control issues and from what I have read, most of that has been fixed. I have fired quite a few rounds through a P226. From what I have shot, the P226 is a fantastic weapon and is very accurate. I especially like that Sig has gone to what were the E2 grips on the P226. Those grips make the grip much better.

Much like other German manufacturers, such as H&K, BMW, etc., Sig is very proud of their products and charge accordingly. However, if you buy a SIG, then you get a very good firearm, albeit a fairly expensive one.

You had bit of experience with the Sigs. I forgot. Thanks! 👍 P226 is full metal construction, right? Did you think that was plus or minus compared to plastic frame guns?

Only comparison I've personally made is my Kimber 1911(metal) versus G21(plastic), and you guys know I LOVE Glocks. But when shooting a .45, I'm of the impression that heavier weight of the steel frame helps with the recoil. But you know me, I am a total noob. People say that 1911 has better grip angle too, so who knows. Maybe it's completely about the grips.

You would also own the same firearm that Navy SEALs use.

No way man, I was using USP as a SEAL on CoD4!

 

[Brett]

Yes, the P226 has a metal frame. I have no issue with polymer frames. Both Glock and H&K are willing to stand by using a polymer frame for a combat pistol and both manufacturers have a proven track record using polymer. So I am willing to use a polymer pistol. My Walther PPQ has a polymer frame. If I did not think polymer was any good, then I would not have bought the pistol.

Greater mass on the pistol is going to dampen recoil. Making sure you have your grip as high as you can on the pistol is going to dampen recoil. H&K puts a recoil buffer on their recoil spring on the HK45 to dampen recoil.

I have not fired a 1911 enough or handled one enough to comment on grip angle, but I can comment on a Glock. The grip angle does not bother me, but Glock ergonomics do. The weapons are just too blocky and not comfortable in my hand.

A couple links that might interest you.

HK45 Endurance Test

Gen 4 Glock 17 Endurance Test

 

[a6m5]

Yes, the P226 has a metal frame. I have no issue with polymer frames. Both Glock and H&K are willing to stand by using a polymer frame for a combat pistol and both manufacturers have a proven track record using polymer. So I am willing to use a polymer pistol. My Walther PPQ has a polymer frame. If I did not think polymer was any good, then I would not have bought the pistol.

More weight on the pistol is going to dampen recoil. Making sure you have your grip as high as you can on the pistol is going to dampen recoil. H&K has a recoil buffer on their recoil spring on the HK45 to dampen recoil. I have not fired a 1911 enough or handled one enough to comment on grip angle, but I can comment on a Glock. The grip angle does not bother me, but Glock ergonomics do not work. The weapons are just too blocky and not comfortable in my hand.

A couple links that might interest you.

HK45 Endurance Test

Gen 4 Glock 17 Endurance Test

Again I love Glocks, but yeah, they do have that blocky feel to the grip.

As far as the polymer frames go, I am a believer. Before buying my first handgun, Glock 17, I read & researched anything I can find about Glock's polymer construction until I was confident in their durability. Only issue I currently have with them are the weight. With a 9mm, I don't really care a whole lot, but with a .45, recoil does become a large enough issue for me.

I got skinny arms.

 

[Brett]

With regards to .45 ACP recoil,



Hickok45 is shooting the Springfield Armory XD-S. The XD-S is a sub-compact polymer frame pistol. With a barrel length of just 3.3 inches and single stack magazines, the pistol is on the small side. Notice, Hickok handles the recoil with ease. Granted, he has much more practice; but with more practice, you could do the same.

I would expect similar results out of a Glock 29. Speaking of Glock, I have shot five rounds through a Glock 21. I vaguely remember the recoil not being an issue. Now, had I shot more than five rounds, it may have become worse.

 

[Zenith]

Exactly.

People keep thinking that gear can replace training. I'd have an XD that I've trained with over an H&K that I haven't.

 

[a6m5]

I'll make sure to watch this video later. 👍

And I do get the point about training, but I have no doubt in my mind that 'gear' does come into play. Everyone has strength & weaknesses to their game. Any gear that maximizes your strength, while minimizing your weakness gives you advantage. I would say that one of these 'weaknesses' I do possess is lack of training.

I became a pretty good basketball player in my day, but I didn't have to drive for 45 minutes getting to the court, or cost me nearly a hundred bucks every time I wanted to play or practice.

 

[Zenith]

I wasn't insinuating that you try to replace training with gear. I was talking more about the people who post things like "I need better recoil control for home defense. Where should I get my Glock's barrel ported?" when they've only put 500 rounds through the gun.

Obviously gear matters, but it has to be paired with a good shooter. A gun is a tool and the best tool in the world means nothing if it's in hands that don't know how to use it. This applies to hammers, computers, cars, guns, whatever.

 

[Brett]

That is exactly what I was going to post. 👍 Speaking of training, I need to go buy some ammunition and do some shooting. It has been almost two weeks since I have been to the gun range.