Real Guns

[a6m5]

I wasn't insinuating that you try to replace training with gear. I was talking more about the people who post things like "I need better recoil control for home defense. Where should I get my Glock's barrel ported?" when they've only put 500 rounds through the gun.

Obviously gear matters, but it has to be paired with a good shooter. A gun is a tool and the best tool in the world means nothing if it's in hands that don't know how to use it. This applies to hammers, computers, cars, guns, whatever.

That is exactly what I was going to post. 👍 Speaking of training, I need to go buy some ammunition and do some shooting. It has been almost two weeks since I have been to the gun range.

I'm sorry, I don't get it. Aren't we exactly where we started? And no Z-Man, I didn't think that you were insinuating that I substitute training by buying the right gun. I don't know which part of my post gave you that impression.

I think we all realize how important training is. My thing is, I've only shot two .45ACP pistols. Kimber 1911 & Glock 21. 1911 shoots so easy like the 9mm Glock I used to have, where G21 felt like a hand-cannon. Yes, training, training, training, I get that, but you bet your ass I'm gonna buy a .45 that fires more like the Kimber(or like a 9mm)!

 

[Time_Attack]

The gov of Illinois is trying to pass some sweeping legislation that would ban a lot of firearms including all glocks and essentially all assault rifles... Maybe I should get around to buying something?

Oh yeah there was a minor shooting at a local high school today. Nobody hurt but still scary.

 

[themartlab]

I'm thinking about getting my firearm "license" and become a member of a shooting club. Laws are a bit more complicated here in Canada than US. What would be a good start for a handgun? .45? 9mm? I like Glock but don't think they're legal here.

 

[Brett]

If you want to be tighter with money, then I would suggest 9mm. .45 ACP is more expensive than 9mm.

 

[a6m5]

Oh god, I sure do feel the difference. .45ACP's nearly double the price of the 9mm. Thankfully, Walmart just started selling Federal brand value pack that cost only about 50% more than the average target ammo 9mm.

As far as the ballistics go, I'm now on board with the .45 for all the popular reasons. However, I think the 9mm eased me into the hobby(less recoil, cheaper ammo=more practice), and as long as I'm using the hollow point ammo for defensive purposes, 9mm still makes total sense to me.

If .45ACP & 9mms are allowed, I don't see why they would ban the Glocks. Great guns.

The gov of Illinois is trying to pass some sweeping legislation that would ban a lot of firearms including all glocks and essentially all assault rifles... Maybe I should get around to buying something?

Oh yeah there was a minor shooting at a local high school today. Nobody hurt but still scary.

Or move.

I've sometimes wondered what would happen if they banned certain firearms. I have tactical shotgun as some of you know. What if they decided to ban it. No possibility of making the thing compliant, just outright ban. Do I just lose my $500 shotgun for nothing? Would they let me keep it because I got it before the ban went into effect? I'm just wondering.

Big J, I do hope you get a gun soon. You've waited long enough!

 

[Time_Attack]

I think you would get to keep it unless they somehow made it retroactive which would mean you would have to turn it into the police department for destruction.

Guns are too expensive. I have enough expensive hobbies and not enough income as it is.

 

[a6m5]

Don't you have a small children you could sell or anything? How about another full time job? Of course I'm kidding, but I worry about you, because of the zombies.

 

[Time_Attack]

I've thought about getting another job. But I'd just buy more cars/parts/motorcycles. I'm hopeless. I was tempted the other day on my lunch break there is a gun/supply store across from the Arbys I was eating at but then I remember my self imposed poverty.

 

[a6m5]

I've thought about getting another job. But I'd just buy more cars/parts/motorcycles. I'm hopeless. I was tempted the other day on my lunch break there is a gun/supply store across from the Arbys I was eating at but then I remember my self imposed poverty.

As long as you realize that it is your own damn fault.

How about looking for used? Private sellers are often awful proud of the guns they are selling, but I'm sure there are bargains here & there. It also helps to talk to friends & coworkers, as they are more likely to cut you a deal. I've also seen some nice used guns at gun shops with very reasonable asking price. I don't know if people haggle at gun shops, but maybe you can let me know if that works or not.

 

[Time_Attack]

Most of the guys at work are either into bow hunting or shotguns. I just want a big ass rifle. The kind that hold lots of bullets and is illegal to use for hunting.

 

[a6m5]

God, great minds think alike, don't they?

 

[Time_Attack]

Honestly, the market for an anti-deer cannon would be huge.

 

[a6m5]

They want to ban guns because of people like us. We are dangerous.

 

[Time_Attack]

I don't know, I'm not so much into shooting at people. Mostly just explosives and such...

 

[a6m5]

That is so bad. I have too much class out of my ass to carry on with a discussion like this!

On topic - You don't want a shotgun, huh? It's not a rifle, and it's not compact like handgun, but it does bring a lot to the table:

• Very fun to play with.
• Cheap to shoot!; cheap box of shells(25 rounds) for $5 & up
• Variety of ammo(small bb's, large bb's, one big slug, 2 3/4", 3", etc.).
• Plenty of them around for availability, and they are very affordable.
• Official Zombie Killing Weapon of the Year(just watch Walking Dead if u think I'm lying!)

 

[Michael88]

.......and if you put rifle sights on said shotgun you get a short range long gun that is as accurate as a rifle up to 75yds with slugs.

Shotgun is definitely the first gun I'd buy if I had no guns at all. The Swiss Army knife of guns. Just make sure you're not recoil sensitive or the slugs and magnum buckshot rounds will whoop yo ass, especially from the bench.

 

[a6m5]

I think TA was a pretty big dude. He'll be alright. 👍

Hey, do any of you guys know much about AR in .308 caliber? Something like Bushmaster? I think they might be cheaper than FAL, or Springfield Armory battle rifles, but I wonder about the pros & cons.

 

[Time_Attack]

Have you ever seen a photo of me?

 

[a6m5]

No. Maybe I got you mixed up with Breakpoint. I know he's a big dude.

 

[cggorman]

I've shot a

Remington 550-1 .22 caliber rifle (mine)

Custom springfield armoury .45 with target sights, barrel, grip ect. (Dads)

.44 magnum revolver (grandfather's)

Ruger MKIII .22 pistol (dads)

Walther p22 .22 pistol (mine)

Beretta m9 .9mm pistol (grandfathers)

Sks 7.62mm[If I remember] assault rifle (family friends)

Remington 700 rifle/sniper rifle (dads)

(Im 14)

 

[Time_Attack]

No. Maybe I got you mixed up with Breakpoint. I know he's a big dude.

You're not far off the mark really.

 

[Michael88]

Hey, do any of you guys know much about AR in .308 caliber? Something like Bushmaster? I think they might be cheaper than FAL, or Springfield Armory battle rifles, but I wonder about the pros & cons.

As far as I know .308 AR's run for 1500-2000 bucks (naked) just like the .223 AR's, so no, its definitely NOT going to be cheaper than an FAL built from parts which runs for ~ 800. (Unless its a new DSA FAL)
There is nothing wrong with the .308 AR system, but I'd prefer a battle proven system like the FAL.

 

[a6m5]

As far as I know .308 AR's run for 1500-2000 bucks (naked) just like the .223 AR's, so no, its definitely NOT going to be cheaper than an FAL built from parts which runs for ~ 800. (Unless its a new DSA FAL)
There is nothing wrong with the .308 AR system, but I'd prefer a battle proven system like the FAL.

By looking at the prices of the "new" battle rifles, by what I've gathered so far on search engines and just handful of dealer sites, Bushmaster AR do seem at least couple hundred cheaper(starting around $1200, actual retail). In some cases, nearly half the price compared to the upper-end rifles! Only exception that I'm aware is the Saiga, which is nice, too. I'd have to find various parts to upgrade it, but I'm not completely opposed to that. I have envied M-16 like since I was 10, so I'm not gonna lie, that does come into play a bit here, too.

DSA FAL would be awesome, but when you brought it up last time, I think they were easily like couple of grand. It's not imminent, so I'll do more research. I appreciate your input as always. 👍

You're not far off the mark really.

Yeah, I thought you mentioned it one time.

I've shot a

Remington 550-1 .22 caliber rifle (mine)

Custom springfield armoury .45 with target sights, barrel, grip ect. (Dads)

.44 magnum revolver (grandfather's)

Ruger MKIII .22 pistol (dads)

Walther p22 .22 pistol (mine)

Beretta m9 .9mm pistol (grandfathers)

Sks 7.62mm[If I remember] assault rifle (family friends)

Remington 700 rifle/sniper rifle (dads)

(Im 14)

I don't want to brag, but I shot way more than that by age 12. B.B. guns.

 

[cggorman]

By looking at the prices of the "new" battle rifles, by what I've gathered so far on search engines and just handful of dealer sites, Bushmaster AR do seem at least couple hundred cheaper(starting around $1200, actual retail). In some cases, nearly half the price compared to the upper-end rifles! Only exception that I'm aware is the Saiga, which is nice, too. I'd have to find various parts to upgrade it, but I'm not completely opposed to that. I have envied M-16 like since I was 10, so I'm not gonna lie, that does come into play a bit here, too.

DSA FAL would be awesome, but when you brought it up last time, I think they were easily like couple of grand. It's not imminent, so I'll do more research. I appreciate your input as always. 👍

Yeah, I thought you mentioned it one time.

I don't want to brag, but I shot way more than that by age 12. B.B. guns.

Deah-um haha I have an air rifle one anschutz target rifle (8001 version) ridiculously priced but a damn good air rifle.

 

[Zenith]

Bushmaster is half the price for a reason. I would avoid them. .308 AR's tend to be seriously expensive. That's what has kept me off of them.

If you want a big honkin' rifle and you're on the cheap, there's one answer:

Mosin Nagant. Go to your local dealer and pick one up for around $100. Ammo is cheap and loving packed by Russian peasants.

If you want semi-auto, look at the SKS.

Two anal corrections:

Time_Attack: Bullets are the little metal bit that comes out the end of the gun. A cartridge or round is what's fed into the gun.

cggorman: 9mm =/= .9mm. You couldn't hunt fleas with the latter.

 

[a6m5]

Bushmaster is half the price for a reason. I would avoid them. .308 AR's tend to be seriously expensive. That's what has kept me off of them.

If you want a big honkin' rifle and you're on the cheap, there's one answer:

Mosin Nagant. Go to your local dealer and pick one up for around $100. Ammo is cheap and loving packed by Russian peasants.

If you want semi-auto, look at the SKS.

Definitely do not want SKS, or Mosin Nagant. No decent battle rifle below $1500? In which case, I might look into smaller calibers, or bolt-action like Ruger Gunsite Scout.

Can you elaborate more on the Bushmaster? All this time, I was under the impression that they were one of the better brands out there. If I got something like this, or this, what kind of problem(s) would I be looking at? I just don't know anything about these rifles.

 

[Zenith]

There are plenty of good 308 semi auto's for around 1500. Springfield M1A comes to mind. Check out this beautwhich you can get for 1,700, or if you wanted to shell out a bit more dough, there's this droolworthy thing...

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.aspx?item=F1PWSMK216&name=PWS+MK216+.308+Rifle&groupid=11

I've repeatedly had to talk myself out of getting a PWS rifle.

Bushmaster is one of the lower end AR15 manufacturers. Your information isn't completely off, back in the 90's they were known to be one of the best. Right now they use substandard components on the AR15's. For a range gun this may be enough, but some report issues with canted front sight posts, inadequate staking on gas key screws, and other bits. If you want a budget AR10 style rifle, look at Armalite. They use better materials and have a better track record. An Armalite AR10 can be had for $1250 IIRC...

Here's a review I found:
http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2010/07/captain-john-raguso/gun-review-armalite-ar-10/

There's no real "standard" for a 308 AR, so it's impossible to tell whether BM's gun is quality.

 

[a6m5]

DSA FAL's are indeed sweet, and those AR's in the vid are nice, except for the price.

Even $1500 is 'high' for me, but I'm just fascinated with the .308 caliber. For dumb weekend shooter(at very best) like me, really, I should be just settle & be happy with the cheap $700 AR rifle, but we'll see. I still have lot more research to do, and still seems to be changing mind from higher-end handgun, bolt-action to battle rifle, AR/AK, who knows.

Thanks for your time & input Z-Man! 👍

Edit: Entry level DSA FAL is under $1500 at Buds gun shop.

 

[cggorman]

Bushmaster is half the price for a reason. I would avoid them. .308 AR's tend to be seriously expensive. That's what has kept me off of them.

If you want a big honkin' rifle and you're on the cheap, there's one answer:

Mosin Nagant. Go to your local dealer and pick one up for around $100. Ammo is cheap and loving packed by Russian peasants.

If you want semi-auto, look at the SKS.

Two anal corrections:

Time_Attack: Bullets are the little metal bit that comes out the end of the gun. A cartridge or round is what's fed into the gun.

cggorman: 9mm =/= .9mm. You couldn't hunt fleas with the latter.

Haha yes my bad

 

[Michael88]

Edit: Entry level DSA FAL is under $1500 at Buds gun shop.

AFAIK you can BUILD your own FAL out of new surplus parts (imbel) for less than 800 bucks, you don't have to burn 1500 bucks for a new one.
Building your own guns is fun, you learn a ton about the rifle and how it works and the process of putting together your personal boomstick is WAY more rewarding than going into a random shop to by one off the shelf.


And personally, with a rifle chambered in .308 I'd go with at least an 18'' long barrel. Why? Because with 16'' you have a lot of muzzle blast, a lot of noise, somewhat more recoil, and you waste power.
Also, with a gas operated rifle (piston) adjusting the gas settings correctly is harder and you have to be more careful with a short barrel rifle.